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[Goodwood]

jlb524 wrote...

This thread makes my FemShep sooo happy!

Wicked.

I like her... 

[The Uncanny]

General Stubbs wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

This thread makes my FemShep sooo happy!

Wicked.

I like her... 

That is definitely a great FemShep.

I wish we 360 players had that hair style, I am stuck with the neck length hair.

Wow... she is...

I'm torn on this... I was going to suggest the addition of new hair, clothing, etc options for us 360 types through DLC. Then I remembered that any suggestion of using an otherwise strong woman character for the purpose of playing dress up induces from me a serious facepalm.

Darn. Caught out by my own hypocrisy.

Probably just as well... getting turned on by your own avatar? Possibly not good.

[superimposed]

This thread makes me *facepalm*

[The Uncanny]

superimposed wrote...

This thread makes me *facepalm*

Wow!

Did everybody see what he did there?

headdesk

[superimposed]

I'm not the one who said they'd get turned on by their avatar.

[OneBadAssMother]

jlb524 wrote...

This thread makes my FemShep sooo happy!

That is one hawt FemShepard, face code NOW!

[The Uncanny]

superimposed wrote...

I'm not the one who said they'd get turned on by their avatar.

No. You're just the one looking for a new thread to troll.

Notice the smiley after the statement? Sarcasm. Google it.

[superimposed]

k.

By the way, avatar-fetish doesn't have an official label yet, does it?

[superimposed]

Also, OP was not about making hawt Shepards, meaning you've missed the ****ing point.

[The Uncanny]

superimposed wrote...

k.
By the way, avatar-fetish doesn't have an official label yet, does it?

[GodWood]

Bachuck wrote...

LOL @ the complete absurdity of this topic and its posters.

Have any of you realized that EA/Bioware's marketing department works in conjunction with the developers to promote the game? Have you really deluded yourself into believing that Bioware's developers want Shepard portrayed one way but their own marketing department has taken a different route entirely? Are you people serious?

Using IGN as a reference, it was on October 4, 2005, at the X05 event that Bioware announced Mass Effect. On that day they released five pictures to the gaming world and 4 out of the 5 showcased a male Shepard. I'm providing a link to them.

media.xbox360.ign.com/media/718/718963/imgs_14.html

What's interesting is how at that point, Bioware wasn't using Mark Vanderloo as the in game model, but that Shepard still held the same visual similarities as the later model would. So the notion that Vanderloo is simply a placeholder for marketing is utterly moronic. Bioware clearly had a sense of how they wanted their Shepard to appear and while they've tweaked the model, the design of the character - white male soldier with a specific haircut - has not changed since 2005.

Moving on to this femshep nonsense (and by nonsense I mean the idea that she's somehow the more "real" Shepard), from what I can tell on IGN (I didn't go back and reread every article), the first report of playing as a femshep appeared on August 28, 2007.

xbox360.ign.com/articles/816/816533p1.html

If this holds up, that means Bioware used maleshep as a way to promote the game for two years. Two years and you think he's not the canon shep? They could've used any model for the character if they wanted. Hell, they could've kept switching between male and female shep as an especially ingenious promotional tool, but they didn't. They kept showcasing male Shep.

Just because Bioware gave us the OPTION to play as a female Shepard doesn't mean they owe players of femsheps anything. They have REPEATEDLY used the same image for Shepard since the games inception. It's your own fault for thinking the character you refer to as Sheploo is not the official canon version.

The scary thing about this thread is the nasty sense of entitlement and resentment many of you are directing towards Bioware for, what is essentially, sticking with their original vision. Many of you are acting like Male Shepard is some sort of recent development. You seem to believe that when you purchased ME1, the box showed only a human figure in silouhette or something. That is not the case:



That look like a visual blank slate to anyone?

From what I've found, that cover art was revealed on January 23, 2007, which is damn near ten months before the game hit the streets in November. You see anything on there that remotely suggests Shepard is as much female as he is a male?

If Shep had always been promoted as being a faceless nothing (ala the main character in DA:O), then I could understand where everyone in this thread is coming from, but that's not the case at all. Shep has been this way for four years running (going on FIVE) and it's really time you people accepted that fact.

Yes, you love your femsheps dearly (you should). Yes, you've grown attached to them (I think we've all grown attached to our respective Sheps). Yes, can't fathom anyone else's Shep as the real Shep (this is to be expected), but to be resentful at Bioware for not catering to your feelings regarding a character they created and have every right to take in any creative direction they choose, is flat-out stupid and immature. You should show gratitude to a development team who care enough about their fans to have given us a choice in the first place. Only an immature fool would repay them with scorn and resentment.

I'm grateful for the sandbox Bioware have allowed me to play in, but I'm also aware that ultimately, Shepard is their toy I'm playing with and he is, for all intents and purposes, on loan. At some point, a profitable movie deal will present itself and when that happens, they're going take their toy back and showcase him in whatever manner they choose.

I'm okay with that and if you truly love Mass Effect as you say, you should be too.

I could make this long but I won't, that'd be pointless.

Straight up, there is no canon Shepard, the default Shepard is not the real Shepard, he exists soley as a recogniseable face for the ME trilogy (marketing purposes) the default ME2 choices are not the REAL choices, they are for new gamers who want to play the game without being confused.
You know why?
Bioware said so, the creators of the game.
Want further proof?
Never in any of the other merchandise (the 2 books, the 3 comics and the iphone game) have they specifically mentioned Shepard's looks, gender, choices, romances or alignment because they didn't want to take away players choices.
How do I know this?
Bioware have said so. 

(Oh and a Mass Effect movie is the most fail idea ever, especially if it was based on the trilogy)

[superimposed]

The point of the white male soldier is that it's Generic, forgettable, but 'recognisable' enough for it to be linked to Mass Effect.

I guess the main reason is by making it a white male Shepard Bioware avoided all the pitfalls of anyone claiming it's any sort of statement.

[Goodwood]

[superimposed]

Of course. Having a contrary, differing opinion, or even making a statement is definitely trolling.

[Bachuck]

rynluna wrote...

 No one is saying they are entitled to anything, Bachuck.  You don't see any of the supporters of femshep knocking on Bioware's door and demanding for Femshep to be marketed.  We are discussing our opinions and wishes on this public forum.  This is not a post about who the real canon Shep is.  This is a post about wanting atleast some advertising for Femshep in Mass Effect 3.  A trailer would be nice.  The people on these boards can be ridiculous sometimes.  As soon as someone posts a thread about something they would like to see in the game someone else barges in an says, "Oh, stop thinking you are entitled to something!"  

The fact is by asking for femsheps to be acknowledged by Bioware, you're asking them to acknowledge her existence, which is another way of asking for official recognition, which is another way of asking for her to be canon. The question I have is why? When you play as your femsheps, she's official. She's as official as my African American Shepard. Only difference is, I'm not creating/joining a thread/group asking Bioware to promote African American Sheps everywhere. What a second...

rynluna wrote...

Oh,
and regarding Redemption? They haven't mentioned Shepard's gender once in three comics so far. I see no reason why they'll mention it in the fourth one. Here's the proof there's no Canon Shepard: Who

is Canon Shepard? - you should be looking for a Bioware tagged post five posts down from the top. (Now everyone, watch it get dismissed as semantics!)

They've spent four years promoting this game globally using a specified face and look. In the publics eye, that is Commander Shepard. If they ever made a ME film that chronicled Shepard (be it live action or animated), they'd need a face and it'd be foolish of them to go with something completely different after spending years and millions of dollars promoting him a certain way.

Goodwood wrote...

First of all, the discourse throughout this thread has taught me a bit about how others feel about the gender choice in the Mass Effect games. That said, you could say that I, at least, am only hoping to unite those of us who prefer FemSheps to MaleSheps, and want some recognition of that from the marketing department. Not against MaleSheps, though I can understand how someone could have that impression.

It's just that the constant hyping of Sheploo is a bit boring. IMHO, of course.

Bioware promoted canon Shepard for two years (October 5, 2004 - August 28, 2007) before anyone even knew they could play as a femshep. There's no reason to change now. What's changed is the players sense of entitlement.

Llandaryn wrote...

What, exactly, are you united for/against?

Femshep is already a viable alternative to Maleshep, and she saves the galaxy just fine. Nobody's pushing Maleshep down anyone's throat. I don't understand the need for uniting in the name of a cause that already exists.

Exactly.

Modifié par Bachuck, 19 mars 2010 - 04:34 .

[Bachuck]

GodWood wrote...

I could make this long but I won't, that'd be pointless.

Straight up, there is no canon Shepard, the default Shepard is not the real Shepard, he exists soley as a recogniseable face for the ME trilogy (marketing purposes) the default ME2 choices are not the REAL choices, they are for new gamers who want to play the game without being confused.
You know why?
Bioware said so, the creators of the game.
Want further proof?
Never in any of the other merchandise (the 2 books, the 3 comics and the iphone game) have they specifically mentioned Shepard's looks, gender, choices, romances or alignment because they didn't want to take away players choices.
How do I know this?
Bioware have said so. 

(Oh and a Mass Effect movie is the most fail idea ever, especially if it was based on the trilogy)

I'll make this even shorter.

Currently there's no canon Shep in regards to decisions we make in the game, this is true. When the right film deal presents itself, Bioware will need to supply the filmmakers with a story bible as reference. You better believe Shepard will have a canon history because no company wants to hear that Bioware can't supply the necessary information because some vocal gamers think the idea is the "most fail idea ever".

Modifié par Bachuck, 19 mars 2010 - 04:41 .

[Goodwood]

Bachuck wrote...

rynluna wrote...

 No one is saying they are entitled to anything, Bachuck.  You don't see any of the supporters of femshep knocking on Bioware's door and demanding for Femshep to be marketed.  We are discussing our opinions and wishes on this public forum.  This is not a post about who the real canon Shep is.  This is a post about wanting atleast some advertising for Femshep in Mass Effect 3.  A trailer would be nice.  The people on these boards can be ridiculous sometimes.  As soon as someone posts a thread about something they would like to see in the game someone else barges in an says, "Oh, stop thinking you are entitled to something!"  

The fact is by asking for femsheps to be acknowledged by Bioware, you're asking them to acknowledge her existence, which is another way of asking for official recognition, which is another way of asking for her to be canon. The question I have is why? When you play as your femsheps, she's official. She's as official as my African American Shepard. Only difference is, I'm not creating/joining a thread/group asking Bioware to promote African American Sheps everywhere. What a second...

No offense, mate, but that's what we in the logic biz call a "slippery slope fallacy."

Those of us in the Jane Shepard Alliance, at least, simply want some form of marketing acknowledgement; it doesn't have to be a supplanting of Sheploo. Not to mention that, within the context of the Mass Effect universe, the term "African-American" has all but lost its meaning. David Anderson is from London, and a dark-skinned Shepard need not even be from Earth (and even the Earthborn background doesn't specify where on Earth Shepard grew up).

Once again, I cite the contradiction between marketing and canon in the case of the Jedi Exile; she was marketed as a renegade-type man, but was canonized bu Lucasfilm Licensing as a female heroine.

[Bachuck]

Goodwood wrote...

No offense, mate, but that's what we in the logic biz call a "slippery slope fallacy."

Those of us in the Jane Shepard Alliance, at least, simply want some form of marketing acknowledgement; it doesn't have to be a supplanting of Sheploo. Not to mention that, within the context of the Mass Effect universe, the term "African-American" has all but lost its meaning. David Anderson is from London, and a dark-skinned Shepard need not even be from Earth (and even the Earthborn background doesn't specify where on Earth Shepard grew up).

While the term African American may mean nothing in the MEU, it does in our real world where representations of varying races and genders in various media are important. Isn't that what your whole first post was about? Asking that Bioware consider making femshep canon because there was a distinct lack of positive female role models? No offense OP, but I don't think you're aware of what you're posting.

You created this thread with the title "FemSheps United". Except for romance options, playing as a femshep is exactly like playing as a maleshep. So what exactly are you uniting for? Oh, I see. You want marketing acknowledgement. Let me ask you this question:

What would an official trailer provide that your playthrough already doesn't?

Goodwood wrote...

Once again, I cite the contradiction between marketing and canon in the case of the Jedi Exile; she was marketed as a renegade-type man, but was canonized bu Lucasfilm Licensing as a female heroine.

Your example is of an apparent disconnect between Bioware and Lucasfilm (I'm assuming this as I never played KOTOR). Two totally separate companies who came together to make a game. Such is not the case with Mass Effect as both marketing and development are under one roof. Your citation is irrelevant.

Modifié par Bachuck, 19 mars 2010 - 08:20 .

[Malastrail]

I'll throw in my support for more femshep.

[Goodwood]

Bachuck wrote:

"What would an official trailer provide that your playthrough already doesn't?"

Easy. Increased awareness of the fact that one can play as a female character (something that numerous posters have already cited -- the fact that they didn't know that the female option was available was nearly a dealbreaker), along with more balanced appeal. Despite the promo art featuring a male, the trailers for KotOR II made a point to feature different possibilities for the Exile both in gender and looks.

If BioWare wanted to market a dark-skinned Shepard, that's fine too (IIRC, Vanderloo is European), though we know they won't. Things are more complicated than they would appear on the surface, and I'm still not sure that the early promotional material counts as any kind of evidence one way or another about a canon Shepard. I can accept the lack of a canon appearance, gender, morality etc., but would be disappointed if it turned out to be Sheploo. This has been said by myself and others in the thread. I'm not sure what your deal is or why you seem to be so angry about the possibility of a canonized FemShep, but it's starting to sound shrill and even trite.

As for the meaning of terms such as "African American" -- IIRC one of the planets (Watson) specifically mentions three nation-states of Earth: the Chinese People's Federation, European Union, and United North American States (or close to that). The Systems Alliance is made up of numerous colonial governments in addition to those of Earth, and the Codex either in ME1, ME2 or both, specifically mentions the increasing genetic diversity of humans as easy intraplanetary and interstellar transportation brings varying cultures together -- hence the lack of a British accent for Anderson despite him being from London. Shoehorning in terms from today's ethos, IMHO, kind of ruins the immersion factor for what is clearly a zeitgeist from two hundred years in the future.

So, what purpose does this thread serve, you ask?

My purpose is simple: to rally those who prefer their Shepards to be female.

Modifié par Goodwood, 19 mars 2010 - 10:20 .

[Zandilar]

Bachuck wrote...
While the term African American may mean nothing in the MEU, it does in our real world where representations of varying races and genders in various media are important. Isn't that what your whole first post was about? Asking that Bioware consider making femshep canon because there was a distinct lack of positive female role models? No offense OP, but I don't think you're aware of what you're posting.

Not all black people are African American.

In the MEU, a black Shepard is just as likely to be an (Australian) Aboriginee as African American.

In 2010, not all black people in the world are African American either. I think an Aboriginee would be highly insulted to be called African American, as would an African - since neither of them are American, and the Aboriginee is also not African.

You created this thread with the title "FemSheps United". Except for romance options, playing as a femshep is exactly like playing as a maleshep. So what exactly are you uniting for? Oh, I see. You want marketing acknowledgement. Let me ask you this question:

What would an official trailer provide that your playthrough already doesn't?

Acknowledgement that the game is highly customizable. It would be nice if Bioware made it a POINT in their marketing that Shepard can potentially be male or female, black, white, latino/a, asian, etc.

It would also be nice from a feminist perspective for recognition that Shepard, a kick arse hero of the universe, can be female. I have heard quite a few people say that they or their friends didn't initally buy the game (being ME1 in this case) because they didn't realize that Shepard could be female!!

Your example is of an apparent disconnect between Bioware and Lucasfilm (I'm assuming this as I never played KOTOR). Two totally separate companies who came together to make a game. Such is not the case with Mass Effect as both marketing and development are under one roof. Your citation is irrelevant.

Actually, to pick a nit here... In the case of KotOR2, it was Obsidian, not Bioware. Two completely different companies. Still irrelevant. (IMHO KotOR2 would have been a better game if it had been left in Bioware's hands.)

[Bachuck]

Zandilar wrote...

Not all black people are African American.

In the MEU, a black Shepard is just as likely to be an (Australian) Aboriginee as African American.

In 2010, not all black people in the world are African American either. I think an Aboriginee would be highly insulted to be called African American, as would an African - since neither of them are American, and the Aboriginee is also not African.

In life we rarely get to meet one so "special".

Let me explain something to you - if a person uses the term "African American", it probably means they're talking about black people from AMERICA. Not about anyone from the UK, Jamaica or anywhere else that isn't AMERICA. Have you ever heard a black person born and raised outside of the USA refer to themselves as African American? I haven't, so when I said African Americans in my earlier post, that's precisely the specific group of black people I was referring to.

Modifié par Bachuck, 20 mars 2010 - 05:59 .

[Bachuck]

Goodwood wrote...

Easy. Increased awareness of the fact that one can play as a female character (something that numerous posters have already cited -- the fact that they didn't know that the female option was available was nearly a dealbreaker)

Then that female gamer was stupid, because through the power of the internet, any gamer can find out whatever they want about any game. The info is at right at your fingertips. I'd also argue that any female gamer who originally passed (or was going to pass) on ME because they didn't think they could play as a female is not a fan of the game to begin with. A good game is a good game regardless of whether or not you can choose your character or you're locked into one. I consider Legend of Zelda: OOT one of the greatest games ever, but I didn't pass on it because I couldn't play as a female link.

If you only play a game because you can play as your gender, race, nationality, etc, then you don't care about that game. You only care about projection what you want. The game is secondary to your own wishes. I think threads like this prove that.

Goodwood wrote...

I'm not sure what your deal is or why you seem to be so angry about the possibility of a canonized FemShep, but it's starting to sound shrill and even trite.

Your baseless, transparent accusations are of no concern to me. That said, you're not making a good case for yourself. You flat-out stated that male protagonist were boring and staid and that's why you want femshep to be canon. Now you're saying it was nothing more than to rally the troops. Which is it?