153 réponses à ce sujet

[Efesell]

I'm not really sure if it's really the blood magic so much as what the whole situation would do to Arl Eamon, who is rather important to Alistair.

Being Chantry/Templar trained he obviously has pretty strong feelings toward blood magic, but doesn't seem to rage over it very much.

Modifié par Efesell, 22 mars 2010 - 04:43 .

[Auresta]

@Krylo: You raise a good point!

I guess it's hard to know exactly how he'd react.. I see how he can be swayed by his party if he's unhardened, and adamant if he is hardened.

But at least we agree that sure as hell he'd kill the Architect if it was just him alone.

[krylo]

errant_knight wrote...

It's actually much more difficult to discuss game characters than book characters when so much depends on mechanics. The whole thing is set up so that it's impossible to lose Alistair until landsmeet, which means that he has to suck it up. Interms of how much he hates it, I have to think that if we were dealing with a character in a book, instead of one whose decisions you have to control to make the game work, he wouldn't accept those things. He really hates blood magic, and the fact that he goes along with the ritual doesn't negate that, it just demonstrates how much he'll sacrifice for others. I think the saving of life by making a deal with the Architect would be both too dubious and too abstract to hold sway with him in this case.

I don't think mechanics play into it, really.

I think it demonstrates different things depending on whether you harden him or not.  If he is hardened it demonstrates that he's willing to compromise his ideals for what he believes is the greater good (ensuring Anora does not gain the throne, and ensuring that the Archdemon is slain and the blight ended even if it is someone else who deals the killing blow).  If unhardened it demonstrates that he can be talked into compromising his ideals, because he is unsure in himself and whether he SHOULD stand up for what he believes is right.

That's MY interpretation, though. 

Efesell wrote...

Being Chantry/Templar trained he  obviously has pretty much feelings toward blood magic, but doesn't seem
to rage over it very much.

Indeed.

I'm pretty sure you can even negate his approval drop for letting out Jowan so long as you're  'careful' enough with him... and the drop is extremely minor either way.

Modifié par krylo, 22 mars 2010 - 04:44 .

[Efesell]

I mean the Dark ritual doesn't seem to bother him at all, at least not the dubious dark magic part of it.



He'll even joke about it during the coronation party.

[Raiil]

Hardened or unhardened, I believe that Alistair, should he have to make a decision or at least have a say in it, will choose to save Amaranthine. As Wardens, we are a sort of professional soldier. Beyond duty, we are trained to destroy the Blight and darkspawn to save people. The Vigil has more soldiers and Wardens there to protect them- Amaranthine does not.





As for the Architect, he'd choose to kill him, I think. Alistair is a lot of things, but not stupid. It's still darkspawn and its intentions are unknown to us. It needs to die.

[Efesell]

It's intentions are actually quite well known to us.



Whether they work out is murkier, but the intent is clear.

[Auresta]

@Valentia X: I don't think the matter of killing or letting the Architect live is a matter of intelligence or stupidity.. when I was presented the option of the Architect's fate, I was dumbfounded for a couple of minutes. I really had to think about it: what he presented was the possibility of no more suffering..

But of course, like I said, Alistair is concerned with how pure and good the means are, not the end (unhardened for sure, hardened might think more about the ends but will be moreso adamant in his decisions).
As for the means/intentions of the Architect, you don't know for sure he'll stay true to his word or how he'll account for all the sentient darkspawn. 

Modifié par Auresta, 22 mars 2010 - 04:55 .

[Thalorin1919]

Alistair has a strong sense of justice. The typical 'white knight'. He's one of those guys that wont ever cooperate with a bad guy.



Loghain - In his mind, Loghain was bad. Loghain abandoned the field leaving Alistair's brother - Duncan - and everyone else to die on the field. He views him as a bad person.



Architect - Alistair wont deal with a darkspawn hardened or unhardened. He views them as well...monsters that must be destroyed. I think he would rather risk having more blights then risk siding with the bad guy, in return having something worse happen. That would bother him alot, and he would not do it.





The morrigan situation is...tricky. He doesnt like her, but I dont think he is 100% distrustfull of her obviously. He gets them from the fact she had been helping us the entire time without ever siding or doing something against us. And I dont think he has really viewed blood magic as a terribly bad thing. He doesnt like it, but he will work with it if he has too.



-Also you guys or forgetting one very important thing. Alistair has a very strong sense of loyalty and cherishes his friendship/love with the Warden greatly. I even think he will put that above all other values, when it comes to doing Morrigans ritual, so he can save his friend/love.

[errant_knight]

The only reason that I didn't mention Alistair's friendship or love with the warden is that he will also do the ritual for a warden whom he loathes. In that case, I guess he's doing it to save Riordan maybe....

[Auresta]

Thalorin1919 wrote...
-Also you guys or forgetting one very important thing. Alistair has a very strong sense of loyalty and cherishes his friendship/love with the Warden greatly. I even think he will put that above all other values, when it comes to doing Morrigans ritual, so he can save his friend/love.

True dat.
unless the Warden goes overboard, with like wanting Loghain as a Grey Warden (yes, of course Loghain's being a Grey Warden comes with other things that irk Alistair). He has limits, but not many he's shown. 

@Errant: you bring a good point. I never considered that because I always had him as my lover

Modifié par Auresta, 22 mars 2010 - 05:27 .

[Efesell]

Maybe secretly he just really wants to bone Morrigan.

[Auresta]

I dunno. When Morrigan approached that bed she seemed really manly.

edit: you're going to say he's gay then, aren't you.

Modifié par Auresta, 22 mars 2010 - 05:28 .

[Addai]

krylo wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Ah yes, good point! It's blood magic--and darkspawn blood magic at that. Nope, he wouldn't go there. In fact, it might be one of those 'line in the sand' moments where there's a lot of yelling.

He's totally ok with swamp witch blood/forbidden magic, though.  Even when it means having sex with her.  Not buying that as the deal breaker.

Totally ok?!  You obviously have never played this scene with Alistair.  He hates the very thought, no matter how much he loves you.  The look of anguish he gives as he gets up to go with you is enough to tear at the fangirl's very heart.  In this case, he is deciding to do the ritual in order to possibly save your life or Riordan's.

[Efesell]

Auresta wrote...

I dunno. When Morrigan approached that bed she seemed really manly.

edit: you're going to say he's gay then, aren't you.

No. No I had not intended to.

Also I just played through the ritual not long ago, on a character romancing him no less. It didn't really bother him THAT much.
We even had a nice joke about demon babies during the party.

Modifié par Efesell, 22 mars 2010 - 05:41 .

[Addai]

Efesell wrote...

I mean the Dark ritual doesn't seem to bother him at all, at least not the dubious dark magic part of it.

He'll even joke about it during the coronation party.

Alistair not being bothered about the Dark Ritual...

Exhibit A


Exhibit B


And at the gates and post-coronation, you can tell that he feels guilty about it and is worried about the consequences.

[Auresta]

Demon babies are always fun to talk about.. and my previous comment was not meant to be snide, it was meant to be taken jokingly!
I didn't note the fact that it didn't really bother him.. but maybe he's just not showing it/doesn't want to make the Warden worry when she/he has people wanting to congratulate and see their savior.
The fact that the pact was placed near the end (it had to be) leaves really no room for Alistair to moan or talk about the morality of the act - you're focused on killing the Archedemon, get it done, then you're rushed into celebration; would he REALLY want to burst your bubble then with his own concerns and indignations?.. but then again, maybe that just REALLY was how he is.

@Addai67; I guess the point is that he doesn't have much OUTSPOKEN regret or disdain, like he did with the whole Connor thing. And thank you for posting that! He's so ..

Modifié par Auresta, 22 mars 2010 - 05:47 .

[Efesell]

And I would be willing to bet more of that is about the sleeping with Morrigan part over the dark magic.

Also is it just me or that first picture more "What the HELL are you thinking?" than despair?

Modifié par Efesell, 22 mars 2010 - 05:49 .

[errant_knight]

Efesell wrote...

And I would be willing to bet more of that is about the sleeping with Morrigan part over the dark magic.

Also is it just me or that first picture more "What the HELL are you thinking?" than despair?

I think it's 'This is a bad idea on soooo many levels.'

[Addai]

Efesell wrote...

And I would be willing to bet more of that is about the sleeping with Morrigan part over the dark magic.

He is easier to persuade if you never tell him that it involves a child or harnessing the soul of a dead god.  It IS the magic that bothers him most, and the fact that a child will be produced.

If you tell him that you'd do it yourself if you could, he has a rather humorous line about the fact that just because he has the parts doesn't make it the right thing to do.  Clearly he is not as torn up about sex with Morrigan as about the entire idea.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mars 2010 - 05:51 .

[krylo]

You get those if you choose the frank/very brutally honest options.

If you make light of the situation both times he's far less "oh god no."

In fact, he smiles and laughs about it port-coronation if you tell him to tell the Wardens the truth, and have told him the truth.

I was being hyperbolic before, but now you're making a mountain out of a mole hill, so.

Modifié par krylo, 22 mars 2010 - 05:54 .

[Efesell]

Addai67 wrote...

Efesell wrote...

And I would be willing to bet more of that is about the sleeping with Morrigan part over the dark magic.

He is easier to persuade if you never tell him that it involves a child or harnessing the soul of a dead god.  It IS the magic that bothers him most, and the fact that a child will be produced.

If you tell him that you'd do it yourself if you could, he has a rather humorous line about the fact that just because he has the parts doesn't make it the right thing to do.  Clearly he is not as torn up about sex with Morrigan as about the entire idea.

Well if the magic bothered him he got over it really, really quick. Cause he sure didn't have a concern about it during the coronation, other than worrying that the other Wardens might ask questions.

[Addai]

Efesell wrote...

Well if the magic bothered him he got over it really, really quick. Cause he sure didn't have a concern about it during the coronation, other than worrying that the other Wardens might ask questions.

If he isn't worried about it, why would he care what the Wardens think?  Why not tell them the reason you didn't die?  He isn't telling them because he knows it's not kosher.
He says:
"Riight, all you need is a maleficar willing to have your demon baby.  No, I think I'll keep that to myself.  I can shrug and look stupid.  It's a talent."

Note that he calls Morrigan a maleficar and refers to the child as a demon baby.  Does that sound to you like a man who's unconcerned about what he did or about the fact that it involved blood magic?

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mars 2010 - 06:12 .

[krylo]

Addai67 wrote...

Efesell wrote...

Well if the magic bothered him he got over it really, really quick. Cause he sure didn't have a concern about it during the coronation, other than worrying that the other Wardens might ask questions.

If he isn't worried about it, why would he care what the Wardens think?  Why not tell them the reason you didn't die?  He isn't telling them because he knows it's not kosher.
He says:
"Riight, all you need is a maleficar willing to have your demon baby.  No, I think I'll keep that to myself.  I can shrug and look stupid.  It's a talent."

Note that he calls Morrigan a maleficar and refers to the child as a demon baby.  Does that sound to you like a man who's unconcerned about what he did or about the fact that it involved blood magic?

Considering he says it with a smile and chuckles at the idea of coming clean with the wardens, it ALSO doesn't sound like a man who is as broken up about it as you are making him out to be.

[Addai]

krylo wrote...

You get those if you choose the frank/very brutally honest options.

Right, so when he knows what the ritual actually involves, he's upset about it.  Thank you for proving my point for me. 

[Efesell]

Except that he doesn't really care what the Wardens think, it's a completely lighthearted conversation. Even the demon baby comment is throwaway and jokingly said.

I admit that saying it doesn't bother him at all was poorly worded, but the man is not very broken up over the issue for long.

Modifié par Efesell, 22 mars 2010 - 06:16 .