153 réponses à ce sujet

[Thalorin1919]

I think there is a chance that he would side with the Architect at first. Considering the Architects intentions to stop the blights.



But I think if Alistair also found it that the Architect was responsible for the Blights in the first place, I think he would flip out and try to kill him.



Either way....I dont know. Its a real hard decision. My HNM has a stronge sense of justice like Alistiar, but he went ahead with killing the Architect. Cause I dont think he could live with himself if the Architect did something bad and cost even more lives. Alistair would feel the same way, and I dont think its something he would risk.

[Sarah1281]

Now, if he had knowledge of some things before, say about the architect waking up Urthemial and starting the blight, it'd a MUCH tougher sell.

I can see him turning on the Architect for the Fifth Blight - which he can blame on him even more than Loghain as without intelligent darkspawn the battle wouldn't have been as much of a disaster, the beacon would have been lit on time, and Loghain might not even have left - once the Mother was dead. Of course, given that intelligent darkspawn were responsible for Ostagar and by all accounts the Architect intends to make them smarter than that...it really depends on if he's made any more progresse getting over what happened than he had at the end of Origins.

[BubbleDncr]

My character was a bit of a heartless, human hated Dalish before she met and fell in love with Alistair, and being in Awakenings without him, she often asked herself what Alistair would do when she came across tough decisions. And while sometimes, she ignored what she thought he would do and just slaughtered the rioting peasants...when it came to Amaranthine, she chose to save the city, cos that's what Alistair would have wanted.



He's her conscience.

[Addai]

BubbleDncr wrote...

He's her conscience.

The same for mine.  I liked the epilogue slide for this reason.  I figure my HNF is the bad cop of their partnership and does a lot of the dirty work so that Alistair doesn't have to, but still, making him proud of her would be a big added  to coming home to Denerim.

Edit to add:  However, simply being a queen also changes a person, I think.  Unless you don't care at all about being a good one, being cognizant of how people look to you affects your behavior.  I personally spread troops around to all the areas.  It was a risk and I probably should have gotten more penalty for it in the ending than I did, but it didn't feel right to abandon any area of the arling to its own devices.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mars 2010 - 04:43 .

[SurelyForth]

My WWAlistairD? thought-process went like this:

PC: This is a whole lot of business you're throwing at me, Mr. Architect. My gut tells me to kill you, because you are a darkspawn and I am a Grey Warden. But you could possibly end the Blights? Hmm, if only Alistair were here...

Dream Alistair: He's a darkspawn. Kill him.
PC: But the Blights?
Dream Alistair: His experiments have already caused new kinds of problems, and what if he can't end the Blights? Then we have the Blights and these new problems. And whatever this Mother is...she sounds like bad news. Also his fault.
PC: Right.
Dream Alistair: He also knocked you out, experimented on you and, inexplicably, made you fight dragons for his own amusement.
PC: That was weird. If it weren't for Sir Pounce-a-lot, we'd all be dead.
Dream Alistair: Sir Pounce-a-lot? Do I even want to know? Just...kill the smart, powerful darkspawn. It shouldn't be that hard for the Hero of Ferelden. And then come home. Being king is hard.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 22 mars 2010 - 04:42 .

[Addai]

@SurelyForth: From your response here and in the "what conversations would you like to see your companions have" thread, I think Bioware should tap you as a ghost writer for Alistair dialogue. LOL Spot-on.

[SurelyForth]

Addai67 wrote...

@SurelyForth: From your response here and in the "what conversations would you like to see your companions have" thread, I think Bioware should tap you as a ghost writer for Alistair dialogue. LOL Spot-on.

Heh, thanks. If only it were talent I could actually apply to real life.

I chose to be far more pragmatic than I normally am with the decisions on the troops. I had them watch the trade routes only. I felt for the farmers (and felt like a total heel for leaving them high and dry) but I was certain that spreading the troops too thin would bite me in the butt in a big way and trade seemed like the most important of the three choices.

[Tinnic]

Despite all the flack he get's, Alistair does have a way of cutting through the bull****. Also, he is an ultimate example of a guy who does not believe the ends justify the means. These days, a lot of people are all for the end justifying the means but that's not necessarily a good thing. Holding on to and standing up for ones ideals is a virtue and a defining characteristic of heros. Alistair is certainly a man who does that. So you know, your PC might be pragmatic sort but Alistair, even hardened Alistair, is more an idealist. People bash idealists a lot these days but I don't think its really fair. Ideals are good things, you should stand-up for them even if they get you killed.

[errant_knight]

Tinnic wrote...

Despite all the flack he gets, Alistair does have a way of cutting through the bull****. Also, he is an ultimate example of a guy who does not believe the ends justify the means. These days, a lot of people are all for the end justifying the means but that's not necessarily a good thing. Holding on to and standing up for ones ideals is a virtue and a defining characteristic of heros. Alistair is certainly a man who does that. So you know, your PC might be pragmatic sort but Alistair, even hardened Alistair, is more an idealist. People bash idealists a lot these days but I don't think its really fair. Ideals are good things, you should stand-up for them even if they get you killed.

Well said.

[BubbleDncr]

Addai67 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

He's her conscience.

The same for mine.  I liked the epilogue slide for this reason.  I figure my HNF is the bad cop of their partnership and does a lot of the dirty work so that Alistair doesn't have to, but still, making him proud of her would be a big added  to coming home to Denerim.

Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

[errant_knight]

BubbleDncr wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

He's her conscience.

The same for mine.  I liked the epilogue slide for this reason.  I figure my HNF is the bad cop of their partnership and does a lot of the dirty work so that Alistair doesn't have to, but still, making him proud of her would be a big added  to coming home to Denerim.

Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

Killing Loghain isn't dirty work to Alistair, it's a present. The best present ever.

[BubbleDncr]

errant_knight wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

He's her conscience.

The same for mine.  I liked the epilogue slide for this reason.  I figure my HNF is the bad cop of their partnership and does a lot of the dirty work so that Alistair doesn't have to, but still, making him proud of her would be a big added  to coming home to Denerim.

Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

Killing Loghain isn't dirty work to Alistair, it's a present. The best present ever.

I guess, but I don't like him flat out killing people like that. That's my job.

Plus I like deciding who gets to be king/queen.

Edit: also, when you kill Loghain yourself, Alistair does give that nod like, "Do it."  So it still really is his decision.

Modifié par BubbleDncr, 22 mars 2010 - 05:14 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

SurelyForth wrote...

My WWAlistairD? thought-process went like this:

PC: This is a whole lot of business you're throwing at me, Mr. Architect. My gut tells me to kill you, because you are a darkspawn and I am a Grey Warden. But you could possibly end the Blights? Hmm, if only Alistair were here...

Dream Alistair: He's a darkspawn. Kill him.
PC: But the Blights?
Dream Alistair: His experiments have already caused new kinds of problems, and what if he can't end the Blights? Then we have the Blights and these new problems. And whatever this Mother is...she sounds like bad news. Also his fault.
PC: Right.
Dream Alistair: He also knocked you out, experimented on you and, inexplicably, made you fight dragons for his own amusement.
PC: That was weird. If it weren't for Sir Pounce-a-lot, we'd all be dead.
Dream Alistair: Sir Pounce-a-lot? Do I even want to know? Just...kill the smart, powerful darkspawn. It shouldn't be that hard for the Hero of Ferelden. And then come home. Being king is hard.

...

That was awesome. Now I wish I had killed the Architect. Though Rose let Anora be queen so she could have Al to herself.

Anybody else suddenly get a ripoff of "What would Brian Boy Tonto Do if he were here right now" to the new words of What would Alistair the Templar Do... etc etc?

Or is it just me?

Also, killing Loghain was a gift to Alistair, if only I could have made him wear a bow.

[Corti78]

errant_knight wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

He's her conscience.

The same for mine.  I liked the epilogue slide for this reason.  I figure my HNF is the bad cop of their partnership and does a lot of the dirty work so that Alistair doesn't have to, but still, making him proud of her would be a big added  to coming home to Denerim.

Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

Killing Loghain isn't dirty work to Alistair, it's a present. The best present ever.

Definitely. The first playthrough I killed him but after doing so I started to think that Alistair should be the one to fight and finish Loghain. To me it was a way for him to bring closure to the events of Ostagar and Duncan's death. Much like how I considered my HNF killing Howe closure for her life as Lady Cousland, so she could move on with her new life.

[Addai]

BubbleDncr wrote...
Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

That was always my thought as well, but after a thread a while back which prompted me to run different Landsmeet  scenarios, the one where Alistair duels Loghain, says "forget Maric, this is for Duncan," and cuts Loghain's head off with nary a by-your-leave was...  hmm, I guess "hot" is a bad term to use for a scene that involves executing a man who is a hero to many.  But you know what I mean.  It was still hot.    And it does establish that it is Alistair that is leading Ferelden into a new age, and not just your PC. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does this whether he is hardened or not, correct?

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mars 2010 - 05:15 .

[Raiil]

errant_knight wrote...



Killing Loghain isn't dirty work to Alistair, it's a present. The best present ever.

I totally agree. Alistair isn't a perfect white knight or as lawful good as people make him out to be, I think. Generally  yes, but always, no. Having Alistair kill Loghain is how I think it should be.

Back to the topic on hand, Alistair is a little more lax than people give him credit for (he might be a little ehhhhhh on spoiling the ashes, but he doesn't morph in into Granny Bateman like Wynne does), but I still believe that in the case of the Architect, even if you could convince him beforehand (and it would be difficult), hearing that he started the fifth blight would be a 'aw hale no' moment for him. Too many people were lost and if the 'logic' that there are two more blights to follow before the archdemons are eradicated completely, he'd probably be more unaccepting of the lesser of two evils, as it were.

[Raiil]

Addai67 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...
Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

That was always my thought as well, but after a thread a while back which prompted me to run different Landsmeet  scenarios, the one where Alistair duels Loghain, says "forget Maric, this is for Duncan," and cuts Loghain's head off with nary a by-your-leave was...  hmm, I guess "hot" is a bad term to use for a scene that involves executing a man who is a hero to many.  But you know what I mean.  It was still hot.    And it does establish that it is Alistair that is leading Ferelden into a new age, and not just your PC. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he does this whether he is hardened or not, correct?

Yeah, he looses Loghain's collar regardless of whether he's a softie or not.

[errant_knight]

Corti78 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

BubbleDncr wrote...

He's her conscience.

The same for mine.  I liked the epilogue slide for this reason.  I figure my HNF is the bad cop of their partnership and does a lot of the dirty work so that Alistair doesn't have to, but still, making him proud of her would be a big added  to coming home to Denerim.

Exactly. That's the same reason I killed Loghain instead of letting him do it.

Killing Loghain isn't dirty work to Alistair, it's a present. The best present ever.

Definitely. The first playthrough I killed him but after doing so I started to think that Alistair should be the one to fight and finish Loghain. To me it was a way for him to bring closure to the events of Ostagar and Duncan's death. Much like how I considered my HNF killing Howe closure for her life as Lady Cousland, so she could move on with her new life.

Yeah, I always feel like it's something he needs to do. Also that Loghain is acting like Alistair is nothing more than the warden's puppet, challenging him/her instead of the claimant to the throne. It makes Alistair look weak in front of the landsmeet. It could be seen that the warden is acting as Alistair's proxy in the way that Loghain is acting as Anora's, but Anora isn't a warrior. She needs a champion. Alistair doesn't, so to have one implies a lack of ability.

But we digress....

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2010 - 05:21 .

[Addai]

I dunno, I did the despoiling the ashes thing for the first time this past weekend (I had to reload, I just loathe doing that for some reason) and Alistair definitely hates what you are doing. He won't forcefully intercede because you're still the only other Warden and he knows he needs you to help defeat the Blight. That is the *only* thing that keeps him on your team even if all your other actions appall him, as the "angry Alistair" videos on YouTube show pretty well.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 mars 2010 - 05:20 .

[errant_knight]

I think it's a mistake to equate 'Alistair doesn't leave or try to kill you' with acceptance. He needs there to be wardens to kill the archdemon. He needs to defeat Loghain. He knows that he can't do those things alone. In some cases, I think that's the only thing preventing him from attacking the PC.

[nos_astra]

I defiled the ashes for the reaver specialization and I thought he was suprisingly pragmatic. Especially when my PC drank the blood. He said something along the lines of: "I know, I stood idly by when you poured that stuff into the ashes. But it's just ashes..." It's not something he would consider doing himself.

Modifié par klarabella, 22 mars 2010 - 09:05 .

[Trintrin86]

I think Alistair, no matter what, would want to save Amaranthine. I think a hardened King Alistair would actually insist on it. The rationale being that Vigil's Keep is full of soldiers and Amaranthine is civilian. I think *that* King Alistair would feel that his primary duty is to his subjects who cannot defend themselves.



Count me in the camp who thinks he might be willing to go with the Architect at first, but once he finds out the origin of the the 5th Blight he'd change his mind real quick.

[errant_knight]

Trintrin86 wrote...

I think Alistair, no matter what, would want to save Amaranthine. I think a hardened King Alistair would actually insist on it. The rationale being that Vigil's Keep is full of soldiers and Amaranthine is civilian. I think *that* King Alistair would feel that his primary duty is to his subjects who cannot defend themselves.

Count me in the camp who thinks he might be willing to go with the Architect at first, but once he finds out the origin of the the 5th Blight he'd change his mind real quick.

I agree about that Amaranthine part. I keep going back and forth on that initial willingness to listen to the Architect. but I do think that all bets would be off once the discovered that the Architect caused the blight.

We have to remember that the Architect lied about the Orleisian wardens, too. They weren't all dead. We met one.  He may be an intelligent darkspawn who wants to end the blights, but he's still a darkspawn and his interests aren't the interests of Fereldan.

[UrsulaCousland]

Definitely, I think Alistair would want to save Amaranthine rather than the Vigil, simply because it's the right thing to do (Grey Wardens are supposed to take losses fighting Darkspawn, while sparing "the people" would be the right thing to do).
I don't think he'd side with the Architect. The Architect is still a Darkspawn, and a very powerful one. He also didn't have his ducks in a row about the fallen Orlesian Wardans (thanks Errant_Knight; I had forgotten that detail), and the Mother is what happens when the Architect is flat out wrong, whether or not we know in-character that the Architect started the fifth Blight. It's too much of a risk - who's to say what happened with the Mother couldn't happen again, easily?
Even if he was dodgy on whether to side with the Architect, these are arguments my "main" character would use with those massive persuasion checks to talk him over to her point of view.   (Oh, who am I kidding - I tend to play "good" characters anyway, so all of them would pretty much argue that. )

[UrsulaCousland]

errant_knight wrote...

Tinnic wrote...

Despite all the flack he gets, Alistair does have a way of cutting through the bull****. Also, he is an ultimate example of a guy who does not believe the ends justify the means. These days, a lot of people are all for the end justifying the means but that's not necessarily a good thing. Holding on to and standing up for ones ideals is a virtue and a defining characteristic of heros. Alistair is certainly a man who does that. So you know, your PC might be pragmatic sort but Alistair, even hardened Alistair, is more an idealist. People bash idealists a lot these days but I don't think its really fair. Ideals are good things, you should stand-up for them even if they get you killed.

Well said.

Indeed. I couldn't have said this better.