Under TIM's leadership, Cerberus has been doing some good work. It also seems true that as an organisation, Cerberus hasn't actually done much to aliens. Most of their atrocities were performed on humans, e.g., Toombs.
There was the thing about the Thorian and the Rachni, but (good old) Miranda had an explanation for that too: they were meant to create shock troops. (But shock troops for what? Hm...) I forget the Thorian creeper bit, but according to her, once they knew the Rachni were sentient they stopped experimenting. Though how much Miranda has been 'indoctrinated' by TIM into accepting this I won't claim to know. After all, look at her argument with Jack after their loyalty missions are completed; Miranda still wouldn't admit that there were problems. If the cell had gone rogue then she might be technically right, but that cell and what they were doing was made possible by Cerberus in the first place.
We also know from Jack's loyalty mission that TIM has standards, if we ignore Jack's protests. I think this can go some way to explaining the many rogue cells Cerberus had in ME1. Of course, TIM wouldn't want news of these rogue cells coming to light as it would reflect badly on Cerberus, but the people that do get attracted, and recruited, seem to lean towards the 'at any cost' attitude.
I think Shepard still needs Cerberus even if he blew up the base, as the Alliance/Council had pretty much abandoned him. Actually the Council were better to Shepard than the Alliance if you compare the different scenarios. After all, only Cerberus seemed to be concerned with the Reaper threat; the others couldn't be bothered and dismissed it. TIM would still recognise that Shepard is needed to fight the war. After the war is another issue....
The Illusive Man (T.I.M.) Discussion/Support Thread - ME3 03/06/12
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Lambda Faction
, mars 18 2010 01:51
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#252
Posté 18 août 2010 - 12:34
Kim Shepard
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I remember some missions focused on Cerberus after playing through Feros, probably involving thorian creepers, but I forgot exactly what Cerberus had to do with it. I usually don't think of Cerberus when I think of the thorian and rachni because those experiments were mostly done by other organizations... ExoGeni and Binary Helix? Maybe their involvement was similar to Saren with BH - he was a shareholder, got them to develop stuff for him, etc. My knowledge of this is kind of limited.
I don't think TIM knew about the guys in charge of Jack's cell going as far as they did. There were videos of the Cerberus agents saying that they hope he doesn't find out. It doesn't make much sense for him to plant the tapes. If those were his orders, I imagine he would have just destroyed the place or got rid of anything that could connect it to himself.
It is possible that all Shepards will start off with Cerberus in ME3. At least, it would make sense of things like Shepard getting paid for and assigned missions after destroying the Collector base. It would be a shock to my Sole Survivor though. xD
Shepard: TIM! *shakes his fist at the hologram* What are you doing here? I quit!
TIM: You destroyed the Collector base, Shepard - not the comm channel. Now, about your next mission...
I don't think TIM knew about the guys in charge of Jack's cell going as far as they did. There were videos of the Cerberus agents saying that they hope he doesn't find out. It doesn't make much sense for him to plant the tapes. If those were his orders, I imagine he would have just destroyed the place or got rid of anything that could connect it to himself.
It is possible that all Shepards will start off with Cerberus in ME3. At least, it would make sense of things like Shepard getting paid for and assigned missions after destroying the Collector base. It would be a shock to my Sole Survivor though. xD
Shepard: TIM! *shakes his fist at the hologram* What are you doing here? I quit!
TIM: You destroyed the Collector base, Shepard - not the comm channel. Now, about your next mission...
#253
Posté 18 août 2010 - 01:04
Ashwraith
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If I recall correctly, the Thorian creepers make an appearance when you're looking for Admiral Kahoku. And it's true that their presence (along with the Rachni) was really more of a footnote in the Cerberus questlines.
On the subject of the Rachni, I don't think Miranda is just spewing Cerberus propaganda. It might actually be the truth.
If you play the voice recordings of the Cerberus operative who realizes the Rachni are sentient (in ME1), she seems genuinely shocked and appalled. ("...We should have treated them like P.O.W.s, not animals!")
And I don't think TIM realized how far the Teltin scientists were going, either. In the message sent to you after Jack's loyalty mission, it says he transferred the surviving children to the Ascension program and terminated all personnel connected to the project (those that Jack hadn't gotten to first, that is).
Now, that could just as easily have been damage control, but I'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
I lol'd. XD
*IMPOTENT RAAAAAAAAAAEG* : D
On the subject of the Rachni, I don't think Miranda is just spewing Cerberus propaganda. It might actually be the truth.
If you play the voice recordings of the Cerberus operative who realizes the Rachni are sentient (in ME1), she seems genuinely shocked and appalled. ("...We should have treated them like P.O.W.s, not animals!")
And I don't think TIM realized how far the Teltin scientists were going, either. In the message sent to you after Jack's loyalty mission, it says he transferred the surviving children to the Ascension program and terminated all personnel connected to the project (those that Jack hadn't gotten to first, that is).
Now, that could just as easily have been damage control, but I'd prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Kim Shepard wrote...
Shepard: TIM! *shakes his fist at the hologram* What are you doing here? I quit!
TIM: You destroyed the Collector base, Shepard - not the comm channel. Now, about your next mission...
I lol'd. XD
*IMPOTENT RAAAAAAAAAAEG* : D
Modifié par Ashwraith, 18 août 2010 - 01:11 .
#254
Posté 18 août 2010 - 01:29
Kim Shepard
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The main thing I remember about those Admiral Kahoku missions was the thresher maw. o_o; They were the hardest part of the whole game for me until I learned how to fight them. Now that you mention it though, I think there were thorian creepers there. I still have no idea what Cerberus wanted with them or the rachni. Did the game even mention it? Maybe not, because it didn't seem that important. But it would have been cool if they were trying to test human resistance to mind control.
I forgot about that message after Jack's mission (and the fact that there were surviving children, probably because the place they showed was abandoned). I don't think TIM's the type to give those kind of orders. Everyone in Cerberus seems to be treated well until they betray him. I assume that TIM knows they would be more loyal this way. Torturing children will just make them turn out like Jack if they survive - powerful, and very angry with him.
If that really happened, my MaleShep's paranoia would just go out of control. xD He would believe that TIM is watching his every move (which is possible). It's a good thing game restrictions won't let him do anything drastic like shoot the comms with incendiary ammo. TIM likes my MainShep better, definitely.
I forgot about that message after Jack's mission (and the fact that there were surviving children, probably because the place they showed was abandoned). I don't think TIM's the type to give those kind of orders. Everyone in Cerberus seems to be treated well until they betray him. I assume that TIM knows they would be more loyal this way. Torturing children will just make them turn out like Jack if they survive - powerful, and very angry with him.
If that really happened, my MaleShep's paranoia would just go out of control. xD He would believe that TIM is watching his every move (which is possible). It's a good thing game restrictions won't let him do anything drastic like shoot the comms with incendiary ammo. TIM likes my MainShep better, definitely.
#255
Posté 18 août 2010 - 04:19
Arhka
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#257
Posté 18 août 2010 - 05:07
OBakaSama
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Nice vid. 
I brought up the Thorian creepers and the Rachni because it gets brought up in a conversation with Miranda. Basically Shepard accuses Cerberus of doing all these bad things (from ME1) and Miranda defends what had happened. (Well, according to Jack, she is a Cerberus cheerleader...hm...alternative costume anyone....*cough*) The standard line, and I think it's fair, is that most of the cells Shepard fought did go rogue, as did the Teltin facility with Jack. That particular one suggests that TIM has certain standards of conduct that he wouldn't cross.
Although Cerberus is 'small', only 12 cells in operation at anyone time I think it's said, so that TIM can oversee everything, the fact that he doesn't have a physical presence with the cells only allows a certain amount of freedom for the cell leader to do what they want. And if said cell leaders have certain inclinations, then they may go against TIM's code of conduct. However, it has to be said that with a few cells going rogue it has hurt Cerberus' reputation.
The question is, I think: what did Cerberus do that earned it a terrorist organisation?
I brought up the Thorian creepers and the Rachni because it gets brought up in a conversation with Miranda. Basically Shepard accuses Cerberus of doing all these bad things (from ME1) and Miranda defends what had happened. (Well, according to Jack, she is a Cerberus cheerleader...hm...alternative costume anyone....*cough*) The standard line, and I think it's fair, is that most of the cells Shepard fought did go rogue, as did the Teltin facility with Jack. That particular one suggests that TIM has certain standards of conduct that he wouldn't cross.
Although Cerberus is 'small', only 12 cells in operation at anyone time I think it's said, so that TIM can oversee everything, the fact that he doesn't have a physical presence with the cells only allows a certain amount of freedom for the cell leader to do what they want. And if said cell leaders have certain inclinations, then they may go against TIM's code of conduct. However, it has to be said that with a few cells going rogue it has hurt Cerberus' reputation.
The question is, I think: what did Cerberus do that earned it a terrorist organisation?
#258
Posté 18 août 2010 - 06:09
Kim Shepard
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I agree about the Cerberus cells. It seems like the teams have too much potential to go rogue. I understand why TIM can't watch over 12 different cells at all times, but I wonder why he doesn't have people to do that for him. It could solve a lot of problems. Not only would the failures reflect badly on him and his organization - every failed experiment is one that they have to do again, or one that they might not have the resources to do again. TIM just needs to get more people who are as determined and patient as Kai Leng (he brought that surveilance thing everywhere and never took his eyes off it).
Their terrorist reputation probably comes from stuff like assassinations and the element zero freighters they blew up/crashed to increase biotic births. I don't think it fits the definition, but that's the best explanation I could come up with.
Illusive Dance is awesome. I went looking through the Garrus thread (70 pages of it) to find the Illusive Headbutt, also by Thundertactics.
Their terrorist reputation probably comes from stuff like assassinations and the element zero freighters they blew up/crashed to increase biotic births. I don't think it fits the definition, but that's the best explanation I could come up with.
Illusive Dance is awesome.
I went looking through the Garrus thread (70 pages of it) to find the Illusive Headbutt, also by Thundertactics.
#259
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:33
Ashwraith
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....You guys just made my day. You know that, right? c:
See, this is why I'd love it if TIM were a squadmate. Headbutting krogan just became that much more epic.
See, this is why I'd love it if TIM were a squadmate. Headbutting krogan just became that much more epic.
Modifié par Ashwraith, 18 août 2010 - 08:34 .
#260
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:39
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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I always wondered why TIM never flirted with Femshep, considering the fact that Bioware described him as a womanizer.
Anyway. I support TIM's glorious return in ME3!
Anyway. I support TIM's glorious return in ME3!
#261
Posté 18 août 2010 - 08:55
Ashwraith
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See, that's what reading between the lines is good for. >.>
From a technical standpoint, I imagine it's because Bioware decided not to have seperate dialogue paths for male and female Shepards.
From an in-game standpoint... maybe he wanted to keep things professional? He was recruiting Shepard for what amounted to a suicide mission, after all; it'd be harder to take him seriously if he kept batting his eyes at her hologram.
...
Not that I'd be complaining, mind you...
Martin Sheen, man. Martin Sheen.
From a technical standpoint, I imagine it's because Bioware decided not to have seperate dialogue paths for male and female Shepards.
From an in-game standpoint... maybe he wanted to keep things professional? He was recruiting Shepard for what amounted to a suicide mission, after all; it'd be harder to take him seriously if he kept batting his eyes at her hologram.
...
Not that I'd be complaining, mind you...
Martin Sheen, man. Martin Sheen.
Modifié par Ashwraith, 18 août 2010 - 08:56 .
#262
Posté 18 août 2010 - 09:15
Tyrannosaurus Rex
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Ashwraith wrote...
Not that I'd be complaining, mind you...
Martin Sheen, man. Martin Sheen.
Perhaps a pro-Cerberus renegade femShep can rule the galaxy along with TIM in ME3 as the illusive couple (sorry: can't come up with something better)?
#263
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:23
Kim Shepard
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If you play the PC version, Thundertactics also posted the mod to play as TIM. I have the Xbox version, so I can't use it. The animations are awesome to watch though.
It's too bad that TIM doesn't flirt with the FemSheps who want him to... but on the other hand, if he flirted with all of them, then it would be hard to make the FemSheps with other romance interests turn him down. Maybe if FemShep said something flirty first, he would think "that's my signal!" In my opinion, it works best that way. (Wishful thinking - make TIM and Kai Leng romance options. xD)
It's too bad that TIM doesn't flirt with the FemSheps who want him to... but on the other hand, if he flirted with all of them, then it would be hard to make the FemSheps with other romance interests turn him down. Maybe if FemShep said something flirty first, he would think "that's my signal!" In my opinion, it works best that way. (Wishful thinking - make TIM and Kai Leng romance options. xD)
#264
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:32
TheLonePolack
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I support this thread. Mainly because the voice acting for TIM is amazing.
Second only to Sam Fisher, because Micheal Ironside is awesome.
Second only to Sam Fisher, because Micheal Ironside is awesome.
#265
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:32
Giggles_Manically
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TIM as a LI does have.. potential.
After Retribution though Kai Leng is kinda well sore lets say after Anderson had his way with him.
After Retribution though Kai Leng is kinda well sore lets say after Anderson had his way with him.
#266
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:58
Kim Shepard
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Well, I wasn't suggesting a romance scene for the poor guy right after he escaped. xD That wouldn't work out.
Kai Leng: No, really, I'm fine! It's just a scratch. And a few bullets. *winces in pain*
Shepard: Maybe we should wait until you're feeling better...
Kai Leng: ...Anderson, I will hunt you down for messing up my date night.
Kai Leng: No, really, I'm fine! It's just a scratch. And a few bullets. *winces in pain*
Shepard: Maybe we should wait until you're feeling better...
Kai Leng: ...Anderson, I will hunt you down for messing up my date night.
#267
Posté 19 août 2010 - 12:59
Giggles_Manically
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Kim Shepard wrote...
Well, I wasn't suggesting a romance scene for the poor guy right after he escaped. xD That wouldn't work out.
Kai Leng: No, really, I'm fine! It's just a scratch. And a few bullets. *winces in pain*
Shepard: Maybe we should wait until you're feeling better...
Kai Leng: ...Anderson, I will hunt you down for messing up my date night.
I would rather Anderson over Leng.
Not just because I would do whatever K. David says, just because his voice is so awsome.
Also why in ME are the guys who are close to retiring all of the sudden kicking ass again?
#268
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:09
Ashwraith
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Because the only retirement in ME is the kind that comes at muzzle velocity?
...Hey, I dunno, it sounded cool.
Unfortunately, Anderson carries a torch for Kahlee Sanders. And if there's one line I will not cross, it's stealing someone else's romantic interest.
Even if that romantic interest is Keith David. Curses.
That said, from my perspective, Anderson always seemed more like a mentor or father-figure to Shepard anyway.
...Hey, I dunno, it sounded cool.
Unfortunately, Anderson carries a torch for Kahlee Sanders. And if there's one line I will not cross, it's stealing someone else's romantic interest.
Even if that romantic interest is Keith David. Curses.
That said, from my perspective, Anderson always seemed more like a mentor or father-figure to Shepard anyway.
Modifié par Ashwraith, 19 août 2010 - 01:11 .
#269
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:12
Kim Shepard
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Yeah, Anderson likes Kahlee. Or did you mean as a squadmate?
I don't think Anderson would have been close to retirement if it hadn't been forced in ME1. Two years ago, he was Captain of the most awesome Alliance ship. Reading about TIM in combat was awesome though. He did really well for someone who hadn't fought in battle for 30 years.
I don't think Anderson would have been close to retirement if it hadn't been forced in ME1. Two years ago, he was Captain of the most awesome Alliance ship. Reading about TIM in combat was awesome though. He did really well for someone who hadn't fought in battle for 30 years.
#270
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:30
Ashwraith
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By the way...
WHAR. :0
I can't find it anywhere I must have it aaaaaaaaah
Kim Shepard wrote...
If you play the PC version, Thundertactics also posted the mod to play as TIM.
WHAR. :0
I can't find it anywhere I must have it aaaaaaaaah
#271
Posté 19 août 2010 - 01:46
Elyvern
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I...I am really tempted and I always do--that is show TIM the finger at the end of ME2. But when I start to think of the aftermath...short of following Legion into geth space to see what the true geth has of the reapers, I can't imagine how Shepard would get more intel on what to do next without the TIM. He's a damn right bastard and all, but his intel network puts the rest of the galaxy to shame.
#272
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:14
Kim Shepard
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From waaay back on page 294 of the Garrus thread: a mod to play as TIM and Garrus. Take screenshots of TIM Shepard, if you can. 
#273
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:18
Ashwraith
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OH HELL YES. : D
Fortunately, I have a few days off from work coming up.
I shall indeed take screenshots.
And verily they will be made of AWESOME and WIN.
...Hmmm. What class would the Illusive Man be, anyway?
Fortunately, I have a few days off from work coming up.
I shall indeed take screenshots.
And verily they will be made of AWESOME and WIN.
...Hmmm. What class would the Illusive Man be, anyway?
#274
Posté 19 août 2010 - 03:27
Kim Shepard
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If you want to go for super awesome, give him biotics. If you want to go for realistic, he was probably a Soldier. He did use that assault rifle. I'm not sure if he has tech skills.
#275
Posté 19 août 2010 - 02:27
Costin_Razvan
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Kim Shepard wrote...
If you want to go for super awesome, give him biotics. If you want to go for realistic, he was probably a Soldier. He did use that assault rifle. I'm not sure if he has tech skills.
I am fairly certain he has quite a few Tech Skills, he did write that Program EDI mentions on the Collector Ship.
