Aller au contenu

Photo

The Illusive Man (T.I.M.) Discussion/Support Thread - ME3 03/06/12


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
607 réponses à ce sujet

#451
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
I think a combination of Paragon and Renegade responses works best in that final conversation with TIM. It sounded like my MainShep and TIM ended on good terms, with their relationship just a little strained. The way I justified it, MainShep was exhausted after the battle and, being fairly short-tempered, her tone sounded more frustrated than she would have wanted it to be. TIM's comment about "the Reapers and beyond" just got a "focus on the Reapers" response from her. It was a long battle, she and her squad had almost died a few times, and knowing what the Reapers are capable of, she didn't have the patience to ask what he meant by "beyond." Basically, deal with the Reapers now, hold nothing back, and then worry about your next move.

I'll replay the scene and find the exact dialogue options I used. Youtube isn't helping me out on this one (most of the vids are either pure Paragon with the base destroyed or pure Renegade with the base saved.)

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

Actually I just remembered, my most favourite speech though is the one after Jacob's Loyalty Mission when he goes on about how if he had anything to do with leaking the information to Jacob, he would be smiling about the outcome... the way he delivers the next line that just makes it perfect "I am not smiling!" :D

I need to replay Jacob's loyalty mission too, because somehow, I completely forgot about this line.

#452
Sashimi_taco

Sashimi_taco
  • Members
  • 2 579 messages
I'm not usually one for older men, but i would totally hit that from orbit.

#453
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages
One of the things I like about the conversations with TIM -and I know I've mentioned this before- is that they don't have the feel of someone addressing a subordinate.

Now, obviously, in the previous game you were a person of significance, but it seemed like everyone you talked to was somehow in a higher position of authority. Admiral Hackett outranked you. Udina outranked you. The Council outranked you. And boy did they make sure you were aware of the fact.

Not only that, but minor characters (such as Anoleis) acted as if you were beneath their notice.
The Illusive Man, however, addresses Shepard as if (s)he is an equal. It doesn't matter which end of the Karma Meter you're on- in fact, he seems to put a lot of effort into getting you to see things from his perspective if you choose Paragon responses.

He almost never raises his voice, even if you're deliberately trying to provoke him (he will snap at you if you choose the "Never again, you hear me?" option after the Collector Base... but then again so would I, if someone tried to ream me out for making a tough command decision). He defers to your judgment, explains his actions as they pertain to your mission, and moves mountains to ensure that you survive your mission.

As I mentioned in a separate thread, that’s a welcome change from the command structure in ME1, who didn’t seem to give a damn whether you lived or died- so long as they came out on top.

Going back to something Kim said on the previous page, I think on some level he does care about Shepard. After all, he has stated, repeatedly, that the Commander is the living representation of what humanity has to offer. At the very least, that suggests a healthy level of respect and/or admiration. He constantly puts Shepard at risk, not as an attempt to backstab or remove a potential obstacle from his path, but because he genuinely believes (s)he can handle it.
Hell, Hackett did that, too*- in fact, if TIM were part of the Alliance, there's a chance he'd be accused of favoritism; not of trying to get you killed.

He does try to hold the fact that Cerberus saved you life (and thus you owe him) over your head if you destroy the Collector base, but keep in mind that from an objective standpoint, you just threw away a huge tactical advantage for no better reason than you didn’t like it.
Even Garrus gets on your case for blowing it up (though the devs seem to have retconned that, if you talk with him on the Normandy afterward).






*-Note that whenever Hackett gives you side missions in ME1, he tells you it's because they're too dangerous for anyone else; you're the only one he trusts to succeed. And he also has a bad habit of not telling you everything.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 19 décembre 2010 - 10:31 .


#454
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
Completely agree. I didn't think that I'd like working for Cerberus at first, until the conversations with TIM and his e-mails/mission reports. It does seem more like he's treating Shepard as an equal, and says many times that the decisions are all Shepard's call, even if he doesn't always agree with them, like waking up Grunt and Legion. The Council was the complete opposite and blamed Shepard no matter what. (Remember the rachni queen conversation with the turian councillor? Kill her or let her free, he still hates you.) And if Shepard is disappointed after Horizon because the Collectors got away with the colonists, it sounds like TIM tries to reassure Shepard there when he says that half the colony was saved and that's the best they've been able to do so far. The Council probably would have made Shepard feel even worse. I like how TIM goes out of his way to make Shepard feel comfortable working with him and Cerberus.

The squadmates' change of opinion back on the Normandy was annoying. They should have the same opinions they had ten minutes ago. Actually, Garrus sounded the most supportive of keeping the base after the mission was over out of anyone (not counting Zaeed and Kasumi because I only know their reactions during the mission). Even Grunt disapproves. That was shocking, to say the least.

#455
Zulu_DFA

Zulu_DFA
  • Members
  • 8 217 messages

Ashwraith wrote...

The Illusive Man, however, addresses Shepard as if (s)he is an equal.


He is playing. There can't really be an equality between a queen... and a chessmaster.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 décembre 2010 - 11:21 .


#456
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages

Zulu_DFA wrote...

He is playing. There can't really be an equality between a queen... and a chessmaster.

Hey, I never claimed to know how to play chess. I just kind of move the pieces around randomly in an attempt to confuse my opponent. Then I flip over the table while gleefully shouting things like 'I WIN!'and 'KING ME!'
Sooooooo maybe it's for the best that he's the one pulling the strings. >.>

Sashimi_taco wrote...

I'm not usually one for older men, but i would totally hit that from orbit.


If it makes you feel better, I used to be severely squicked out at the thought of an age gap larger than ten years.
I have become everything I haaaaaate. ಠ_ಠ

#457
philiposophy

philiposophy
  • Members
  • 320 messages
TIM was such a great presence on screen that working for him would always be better than working for the Council. But more seriously, good points from Ash and Kim. TIM/Shepard is more dynamic than Council/Shepard.

#458
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
I just played through the suicide mission and end dialogues with TIM a few times. It seems the best one to stay on good terms with TIM is Renegade-Paragon-Neutral. Of course, that might not work best for everyone's Shepards. I know the "I won't sacrifice the soul of our species" line sounded strange coming out of MainShep (almost felt like TIM should have asked her if she got hit on the head in that base... and actually, she did), but none of the options really sounded like something she would say. Saying too much against TIM, or that they don't need him, would be way more out of character.

By the way, I chose the first Neutral option when TIM asks for the base and got a line from him I've never seen before. He said that Shepard fought for what she believed in and he brought her back to keep fighting, some people thought he went too far, but he saw the potential, and asked Shepard to see the potential in the Collector base. I like that line. :)

And I did watch the one after Jacob's loyalty mission. That was a good one too.

#459
Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien
  • Members
  • 5 177 messages
Yeah I've seen the neutral ones before because I did try doing a 'neutral' runthrough (though failed because I kept getting trigger happy with interupts lol) but yeah if I remember rightly that line was the decider in that run that made me keep it. Shep Talk-Jutsued by someone else for a change lol



Thanks for looking at the dialogs, interesting that the best result comes from a combination of all 3 points (paragon, neutral and renegade)

#460
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
No problem. :) I have a save close to the end of the suicide mission, so it doesn't take long to check these things.

That last conversation with TIM must be the only one where Renegade isn't always the best choice. The second option actually changes which set of dialogue choices Shepard has for the third. It's strange that the pure Renegade dialogue almost makes it sound like Shepard will be leaving Cerberus. I wonder how much Shepard's exact words will really matter in ME3 though. Even if the dialogue suggests that Shepard quit Cerberus, Shepard still gets missions from them in all DLC after the suicide mission, right? Still, I would have liked Shepard's words to be exactly what the dialogue wheel showed for that last part.

TIM: We need each other.
Shepard: Yes. We do.

The wheel can be so misleading sometimes.

#461
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages

Kim Shepard wrote...

TIM: We need each other.
Shepard: Yes. We do.

The wheel can be so misleading sometimes.


True that. I remember clicking that option and thinking, "whoa, wait- that's not what you made me think Shepard was going to say, at all".
Of course, that wouldn't be the first time there was a discrepency between the dialogue wheel and what came out of Shepard's mouth. I'm looking at yoooooooou, dialogue options with Mr. Taylor. ಠ_ಠ

Modifié par Ashwraith, 21 décembre 2010 - 01:53 .


#462
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
It really was the best option, so it wasn't completely misleading. I wanted a real pro-TIM option though.

I never tried to figure out Jacob's conversations, but I did talk to him after I replayed his loyalty mission to see the TIM scene. Jacob was the one who didn't want to talk then. xD

#463
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
I'm sure none of us forgot about the comics, but I'll post BioWare's announcement here just in case: link

So... "check your local book stores" means I might not have to wait as long as I thought. :D Great news for me.

#464
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages
Been playing through LotSB as TIMShep, just for added irony. And ololz is it ever hilarious watching the Illusive Man go toe-to-toe with a yahg.
I'll try to get some more screenshots up later, but for now... :3

Image IPB

TIM: SHEPARD IS MINE GOD DAMMIT

Shadow Broker: Dude, STFU, I was here first!


And now you know how the altercation over your body really went down.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 24 décembre 2010 - 05:05 .


#465
Pacifien

Pacifien
  • Members
  • 11 527 messages
You know, I always did think that the reason the Illusive Man was infatuated with Shepard was solely because he wanted to live vicariously through him.

#466
Jaron Oberyn

Jaron Oberyn
  • Members
  • 6 752 messages

Ashwraith wrote...

Been playing through LotSB as TIMShep, just for added irony. And ololz is it ever hilarious watching the Illusive Man go toe-to-toe with a yahg.
I'll try to get some more screenshots up later, but for now... :3

Image IPB

TIM: SHEPARD IS MINE GOD DAMMIT

Shadow Broker: Dude, STFU, I was here first!


And now you know how the altercation over your body really went down.


Lol, I wonder how TIM won then? 

-Polite

#467
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
The look on TIM's face is priceless. xD It would have been awesome if he attacked the Shadow Broker while shouting "Shepard is mine!"

The thought that TIM wants to live vicariously through Shepard is interesting. (And him being "infatuated" with Shepard. That too. :D) He did admit that he wanted to come along for the final battle, but knew it wasn't his place. That's the only one I can think of at the moment.

#468
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages
Oh, Sarenserendipity, you have smiled upon my 'Print Screen' finger:
TIM apparently thinks he's James Bond.

Image IPB

Gonna be in Seattle for the next few days; dunno if I'll have internet while I'm there. So let me just say this now:
MERRY PLATYPUS, ONE AND ALL.*  :D
/zim

















*-But especially the people on this thread.
Because you're awesome like that.
Awwwwww yeah.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:36 .


#469
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
Has the Sarendoctrination spread to the TIM thread? It must have, now that he'll be in the same comic series as TIM. ("The Sarendoctrinator" is my title in the Garrus group because I write so many wall-of-text posts about Saren that people actually start to like him when they didn't before. xD)

That's a great screenshot of TIM. I wonder if there will be any cool "TIM looks right at us and points a gun" pictures in Evolution. With all of the battle scenes the comic will probably have, I'd say it's possible. And happy holidays to the TIM thread. I'd post an adorable Christmas-themed picture of TIM if I had any. I have two of Saren, but none of TIM.

#470
Zulu_DFA

Zulu_DFA
  • Members
  • 8 217 messages
AND...

The preview of the TIM comic is up!!!

Click here to switch to the official announcement by Chris Priestly, where you can find the link to the pics!

And we know his name now!!!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:13 .


#471
Fiery Phoenix

Fiery Phoenix
  • Members
  • 18 957 messages
Jack Harper!

#472
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
The five-page preview was awesome. :D Thank you, BioWare! And thanks to Zulu for posting it.

Jack Harper sounds familiar. Not sure where or if I've heard it before. It's kind of funny that he has the same name as Subject Zero and Ulrich's Shepard though.

And that turian he captured for interrogation must be Saren or his brother. None of the other turians have fringe like that. It might be Saren because of the glowing blue eyes. There's a turian on page 3 who looks like him too, but with glowing red eyes and brown skin (Saren's is more gray), who could be his brother. I thought the color difference might have just been the lighting, but when I had a closer look, they're wearing different armor.

Now I'm thinking TIM captures Saren, Saren's brother attacks TIM, TIM kills Saren's brother, and Saren's hate for humanity starts. Or I could be wrong because all of that is based on five pages.

#473
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages
...Well, color me intrigued wrong.
I was sure it was going to be 'Armistan Banes'... although, from the mention of 'The Man', are we absolutely certain that's who we think it is? Or did he adopt the title later? (I'm more inclined to believe the latter, but- meh.)  :0
And you're not the only one who thinks 'Jack Harper' sounds familiar. Nor that the turian he captured has got to either be Saren, or a relative. They look too similar for it to be a coincidence.
(...Why do I keep thinking of Lost? No, Ash. That is not the Jack you're looking for.)

Also, HELL YES.Now I can lord his name over people who haven't seen the preview pages. MUAHAHAHAHA. >:]


I've preordered my copy. January, why is you not here yet. ;3

Modifié par Ashwraith, 31 décembre 2010 - 01:40 .


#474
Ashwraith

Ashwraith
  • Members
  • 987 messages
EDIT: Argh! Hit 'quote' instead of 'edit'.

Modifié par Ashwraith, 31 décembre 2010 - 01:39 .


#475
Kim Shepard

Kim Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 257 messages
I did think it was funny when they called their boss "The Man." xD I think TIM probably came up with the title later, after creating Cerberus, but it could have been influenced by the man who lead the early pro-humanity group he was part of. Now that we know he didn't come up with it because his name's really Tim.

Jack Harper... I can't be thinking of Lost because I don't watch that show. I think there are other Mass Effect characters who share names with another character. This is just the first one I've thought about.

TIM, I hope you're not the one to kill that awesome turian or his brother. It would make my MainShep's loyalties very complicated.