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[TheTrooper1138]

Little Paw wrote...

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

Little Paw wrote...

Very good points Trooper!!!
I do remember that Ash conversation, and to me Bioware should have developed that instead of making her a throw away conversation in ME2.
Now you have me thinking!
I just checked out an old saved game and yes, it's a bit of a tease to hear her say that and then neither game really dives into it. I am sure at the time I blew it off, being the atheist and all. LOL
Maybe she will show up in ME3 and it can be revisited and developed.
As for atheism, don't sweat it...having strong values does not require any specific prescribed system. Anyone can have values.
I am a really good guy; just ask my wife and kids!
Peace...

Why would you not be? 
I'm not religious either, I'm just not atheist but agnostic, though I find myself strongly interested in European Pagan Religions, and I'd say I have stronger values than most Christians. Values like honesty for example which seem to count for nothing in Christianity.
Well, usually my characters ask Ash something like "but you're not a fanatic, right?", so I never really delved into that dialogue as well, but again, you do get the option to give a "positive" reply and that would make Shepard a religious person and then Shepard would probably have some issues about the whole resurrection thing.

Also, with my current Renegade character I find myself a bit amused (and not in the good way) about all those "scars" and the Terminator eyes... obviously Shepard was damaged worse than just dead. There seems to be missing a lot of him/her...  
This gets a bit ridiculous really. A bit of the Renegade look was cool for a while, but when it gets worse, it just looks silly, with the eyes and all...

I think the renegade scars and look is almost as silly and laughable as the final boss in ME2. I mean, I actually LAUGHED when I saw it. I called my 13 year old son over to the screen to point and laugh at it too.
It was more silly, and goofy than scary and awe inspiring, which was what I can only assume they were going for.
And platforms of enemies? What is this, Tron?
Oh, and there you go again misbehaving: " Values like honesty for example which seem to count for nothing in
Christianity" - that talk makes people mad. Saying "count for nothing for many people" and I can agree, but I try and avoid gross generalizations that insult entire cultures of people -

Well, it is what history has proven. LaVey was right, when he wrote his "Satanic Bible" (though I do not agree with his conclusions, since Satanism is just inverted Christianity and as such to be rejected as well), he described how the average Christian would go committing "sins" on Saturday to get absolution in Church on Sunday, just to to the same again next week. That's basically Christiany, plus thousand years of oppressing every other belief, destroying every other culture wherever the Christians went (except Japan where tha Samurai rightly killed the missionaries), burning innocent people as "witches" or "blasphemers", leading Crusades etc.
I'm not saying Pagan cultures were peaceful, but they at least weren't hypocritical about it, preaching peace and "turning the other cheek" while murdering/destroying entire civilisations or cultures...
Nothing against the few tolerant Christians, but the majority of the religion is just disgusting.



But back to topic: I do agree, Archereon, that it is rather the philosophical question that matters. I don't want my Shepard praying or anything, that would really make me hate the game (), but, as I said several times now, I want him/her and some of the others to at least acknowledge the death-resurrection thingy and maybe give us some little dialogue about it.
And yes, the Human Reaper was pretty silly. Though he was less silly than the Reaper-Saren in the first ME imao. He looked like a "Jew-Bot"... 

[Little Paw]

Jew bot?

Pagans were not hypocritical?

Trooper, you are just all over the place.

Xanax, baby...get some.

[Milician]

Quote
Let's hope that was a joke, and the wink the indication of it!  I spend a great deal of time on these boards explaining that Shepard is by design a flat and static character, and there only a few scenes where we get to know what's on his/her mind.  Definitely not enough to contitute him/her being rounded, dynamic, conflicted, or having anything near an arc, in comparison to the side characters.  (Which I why I feel the romance scenes are somewhat lame.)

There are a handful of scenes where I wish the writers allowed Shepard to express an exact, particular, obvious feeling.   Nothing complex, but basic simple things we'd say in certain situations, especially the romance scenes.
Quote


Does anybody realize that in all of these games that Bioware makes has moral and personal choices you can make? They do this to allow "you" to become the character. You ideals, your morality, your personality all shine through the ways you react in-game. Shepard can be a harsh and corrupt character if you choose him to be. Or he can be kind and giving.

If Shepard had his own personality, and talked with his own ideas, your input would seem useless. If he used his own words, yours would have no point when you know Shepard has his own opinion. In these games you supposed to create the character with your personality. This is why he is flat and static. Shepard, in a sense, is a blank slate ready for your input.

Modifié par Milician, 21 mars 2010 - 11:32 .

[TheTrooper1138]

Little Paw wrote...

Jew bot?

Yes, Jew Bot. See. 
That was the first thing I thought of, when I so Saren in that scene, sorry. 

Little Paw wrote...

Pagans were not hypocritical?

Not by default, no. Christianity is based on it.

[TheTrooper1138]

Milician wrote... 

If Shepard had his own personality, and talked with his own ideas, your input would seem useless. If he used his own words, yours would have no point when you know Shepard has his own opinion. In these games you supposed to create the character with your personality. This is why he is flat and static. Shepard, in a sense, is a blank slate ready for your input.

Which is the reason, why I think we should have the chance to make Shepard question his/her death. My characters would usually do that, by not allowing me to do that, it breaks immersion/identification with my Shepards for me...

[smudboy]

Milician wrote...
Does anybody realize that in all of these games that Bioware makes has moral and personal choices you can make? They do this to allow "you" to become the character. You ideals, your morality, your personality all shine through the ways you react in-game. Shepard can be a harsh and corrupt character if you choose him to be. Or he can be kind and giving.

If Shepard had his own personality, and talked with his own ideas, your input would seem useless. If he used his own words, yours would have no point when you know Shepard has his own opinion. In these games you supposed to create the character with your personality. This is why he is flat and static. Shepard, in a sense, is a blank slate ready for your input.

Shepard is as harsh and corrupt if you choose him to be, within the confines as the developers wrote it.

And they should also have allowed Shepard to choose his own personality.  And we do!  We get a "psych profile" selection in ME1, but that means absolutely nothing to Shepard as a character.  Imagine if Meer and Hale had to say every piece with that underlining vibe to it (emotionally scarred, ruthless, or a war hero tone.)

I do not believe Shepard is a blank slate, though.  He's more like a remote control automoton (like every game), with no social AI to develop a personality.  All he/she requires for thsi is 1) a lot more direct questions (like Kelly, backstories, etc.) on certain things, 2) some events to show how he/she can react (which can work already with the wheel), 3) a use of temperament (which is what I thought the psych profile was), and a normal, properly developed social reality of "Shepard" could be shown.  Again, it would just be Hale and Meer doing all their lines 3x over.  It's doable.  It's just a huge undertaking.  Even one of these qualities would personalize Shepard in some way.

In much the same way they got their dialog interrupts in for ME2, they could do this properly for the psych profile from ME1, in ME3: give Shepard some characterization.

Modifié par smudboy, 22 mars 2010 - 03:58 .

[Little Paw]

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

Little Paw wrote...

Jew bot?

Yes, Jew Bot. See. 
That was the first thing I thought of, when I so Saren in that scene, sorry. 

Little Paw wrote...

Pagans were not hypocritical?

Not by default, no. Christianity is based on it.

So we can add anti-semetic to your character flaws, outside of gross generalizaions and major bouts of conjecture? What the **** is a jew-bot? I'm laughing, but I do not understand at all.

[Little Paw]

Milician wrote...

Quote
Let's hope that was a joke, and the wink the indication of it!  I spend a great deal of time on these boards explaining that Shepard is by design a flat and static character, and there only a few scenes where we get to know what's on his/her mind.  Definitely not enough to contitute him/her being rounded, dynamic, conflicted, or having anything near an arc, in comparison to the side characters.  (Which I why I feel the romance scenes are somewhat lame.)

There are a handful of scenes where I wish the writers allowed Shepard to express an exact, particular, obvious feeling.   Nothing complex, but basic simple things we'd say in certain situations, especially the romance scenes.
Quote


Does anybody realize that in all of these games that Bioware makes has moral and personal choices you can make? They do this to allow "you" to become the character. You ideals, your morality, your personality all shine through the ways you react in-game. Shepard can be a harsh and corrupt character if you choose him to be. Or he can be kind and giving.

If Shepard had his own personality, and talked with his own ideas, your input would seem useless. If he used his own words, yours would have no point when you know Shepard has his own opinion. In these games you supposed to create the character with your personality. This is why he is flat and static. Shepard, in a sense, is a blank slate ready for your input.

There is just not enough dialogue options in any game to really paint any character to be like yourself enough for it to be THAT fulfilling.
Shepard, no matter how you play him/her, is as boring as a bologna sandwich on Wonder Bread, and as Robotic as Troopers, um, Jew-bot?

[Homebound]

one thing that bothers me about the intro.



I cant skip it.

[Little Paw]

Too true.

[TheTrooper1138]

Little Paw wrote...

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

Little Paw wrote...

Jew bot?

Yes, Jew Bot. See. 
That was the first thing I thought of, when I so Saren in that scene, sorry. 

Little Paw wrote...

Pagans were not hypocritical?

Not by default, no. Christianity is based on it.

So we can add anti-semetic to your character flaws, outside of gross generalizaions and major bouts of conjecture? What the **** is a jew-bot? I'm laughing, but I do not understand at all.

Did you not watch the vid I linked? What's that got do to with Anti-Semitism? Are you ****ing stupid? South Park is anything but Anti-Semitic, it makes fun of everything...
Also I'm not generalizing, Christianity is a crime against humanity. Simple as that.

[Bigdoser]

Does it really matter? I bet this thread is gonna get locked sooner or later.

[Ghostano]

smudboy wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

That's possible, didn't think about that.  That would probably be the most realistic scenario for recovering Shep.  If Shep just died out in space it's much more reasonable (though still deep in 'possibly beyond the capabilities of anyone, ever') that Shep could be brought back.  

The only way I could possibly believe it is if they made some mention of his/her brain being miraculously preserved.  For example, let's say his head got somehow removed from his body, and his body came crashing down to the planet (which could explain how Legion got his armor.)  Maybe the absolute zero vacuum of space could preserve a brain, and ME technology could reconstruct the rest of Shepard.

But we get "meat and tubes" and no mention of HOW his brain and memories survived, aside from a psych assessment from Miranda and Jacob.

 This may be comeing from way out in left field but does anyone remeber the UNC: Lost Freighter mission from Mass Effect 1? Given the Mass Effect unversie itself I just can not see how Shapard is brought back to life when doing the mission your teammates even say there is nothing they can do for the brain dead. I can not see how a person can not be brain dead when spaced. I believe that jacob was deprived of oxygen from a accident while working in space.

 Given the events of his death only happen a couple months(maybe?) after that UNC mission I just find it hard to believe there was such a gaint leap in tech regardless of price. Then again going from needing no bullets to needing bullets in two years does not feel like a tech improvement. Yeah yeah they call there clips heat sinks they are only good for X amount of projectiles eg bullets . 

 

  Oh well I got distracted just can not get that UNC mission out of my head everytime I think about the return of Jesus...I mean Shapard   Atleast we all know they will not pull the even worse twist in ME3 you were not really playing Shapard but a clone while the real one that never died was doing a super duper secret mission with Ash/Kandian and ever Liara on the down low

[TheTrooper1138]

Ghostano wrote...

 This may be comeing from way out in left field but does anyone remeber the UNC: Lost Freighter mission from Mass Effect 1? Given the Mass Effect unversie itself I just can not see how Shapard is brought back to life when doing the mission your teammates even say there is nothing they can do for the brain dead. I can not see how a person can not be brain dead when spaced. I believe that jacob was deprived of oxygen from a accident while working in space.

 Given the events of his death only happen a couple months(maybe?) after that UNC mission I just find it hard to believe there was such a gaint leap in tech regardless of price. Then again going from needing no bullets to needing bullets in two years does not feel like a tech improvement. Yeah yeah they call there clips heat sinks they are only good for X amount of projectiles eg bullets . 

hey, you're absolutely right, I didn't think ot that... even worse then, the inconsistency... was an interesting side-mission btw, though I would have liked some real dialogue in it...

[smudboy]

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

Ghostano wrote...

 This may be comeing from way out in left field but does anyone remeber the UNC: Lost Freighter mission from Mass Effect 1? Given the Mass Effect unversie itself I just can not see how Shapard is brought back to life when doing the mission your teammates even say there is nothing they can do for the brain dead. I can not see how a person can not be brain dead when spaced. I believe that jacob was deprived of oxygen from a accident while working in space.

 Given the events of his death only happen a couple months(maybe?) after that UNC mission I just find it hard to believe there was such a gaint leap in tech regardless of price. Then again going from needing no bullets to needing bullets in two years does not feel like a tech improvement. Yeah yeah they call there clips heat sinks they are only good for X amount of projectiles eg bullets . 

hey, you're absolutely right, I didn't think ot that... even worse then, the inconsistency... was an interesting side-mission btw, though I would have liked some real dialogue in it...

Great...like the ME universe needs more things that aren't consistent...

[Little Paw]

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

Little Paw wrote...

TheTrooper1138 wrote...

Little Paw wrote...

Jew bot?

Yes, Jew Bot. See. 
That was the first thing I thought of, when I so Saren in that scene, sorry. 

Little Paw wrote...

Pagans were not hypocritical?

Not by default, no. Christianity is based on it.

So we can add anti-semetic to your character flaws, outside of gross generalizaions and major bouts of conjecture? What the **** is a jew-bot? I'm laughing, but I do not understand at all.

Did you not watch the vid I linked? What's that got do to with Anti-Semitism? Are you ****ing stupid? South Park is anything but Anti-Semitic, it makes fun of everything...
Also I'm not generalizing, Christianity is a crime against humanity. Simple as that.

I only clicked the pic, not the video. THAT Jew-Bot!
Sorry.

Modifié par Little Paw, 23 mars 2010 - 11:10 .

[TheTrooper1138]

Little Paw wrote...

I only clicked the pic, not the video. THAT Jew-Bot!
Sorry.

In that case you are forgiven... 

[Little Paw]

This is the best way to be forgiven:

www.youtube.com/watch

[Chimerical Man]

Bioware likes to skirt the edge with those sorts of questions. They've adopted the medium of referencing more 'heavy' subjects like that without directly channeling opinion into it (aside from the Reaper embryo is-it-alive thing...).



Personally I don't really see much of an unanswered question regarding his resurrection. The game did well in not elaborating on the details of the process, and what Shepard felt, if anything, during his downtime. People whose views do not include an afterlife don't get their toes stepped on, and neither do those who do believe in one. I'm a Christian, and the Bible records a number of people being brought back from the dead, and none of them had much to say about it.



All in all, I think Bioware simply didn't want to touch on the matter too heavily, and they did a decent job of it.

[Little Paw]

Good post Chimerical...interestingly enough, it is not the Bible that is opinionated about the subject, it is the idiots reading it.