90 réponses à ce sujet

[beelzeybob]

 I feel like he is pretty agreeable/he is anti hero. But everyone in game and people like Duncan in "The Calling" treat him like he's an evil scum.

Someone please clarify. 

[Mystranna Kelteel]

In the book he was quite evil.



It sounds like he may have changed his goal a tad in the game, but it isn't delved into enough to say for sure. Best to not risk it, I say.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

He probably have learned about other living creatures, life and other things a bit after The Calling. Still, he's hard-to-trust sonova ****.

[Dennis Carpenter]

It would appear his only goal is to unite whatever humans and darkspawn he can muster to fulfill his own agenda regardless of the consequences for those who join him. He is quite a good manipulator of the mind as he very easily swayed the grey wardens who were hunting him in the book in spite of their convictions which I found difficult to understand.

[fantasypisces]

That was one of my biggest gripes. This storyline would have been GREAT as a sequel, that way it could all be more fleshed out. But as an expansion it was just too rushed. In the end, I still didn't trust the Architect, and still had no real idea what the hell was going on during the whole situation.



Plus I didn't really learn anything about my companions, even though the lowest approval I had was Valenna at 60, and still didn't get hers or Sigrun's (who was at 70) personal quests. Nor was I able to finish Oghrens, because apparently even though he was at 80 approval, we weren't friends enough for him to confide in me. So I wonder if I was bugged (wouldn't be surprising).



Guess it doesn't matter. Valenna died/disappeared, Sigrun died, Oghren stayed as a Grey Warden, but I left and never returned to Vigil's keep. Which makes me think I am no longer Commander, which makes me believe, it doesn't matter.

[Tahleron1]

he's ignorant really, he sees how other races treats his and assumes that's how they all act, so that's how he acts towards them.

The whole using warden blood for his darkspawn sapient reverse joining deal pretty much sums it up.

Tbh, I thought he was probably too much like the Matrix character by the same name, heh.

Modifié par Tahleron1, 18 mars 2010 - 02:45 .

[Raiil]

I didn't get Oghren's until a sight over 90% IIRC. Apparently, having him at my side to defeat the Archdemon and piling him with booze wasn't enough to get him to trust me. >.>

[Anyroad2]

Hm. I think the only personal quests I got were Justices because he was my last companion and somehow gained +100 after one conversation and Nathaniel. =\\

Oghren never confided in me, but the epilogue said that he started treating his family right.



I enjoyed the expansion, but this could have easily have been a much longer quest. Probably long enough to warrant it being a full fledged sequel. I mean it certainly is threatening. No Archdemon, but the Darkspawn are going nutso anyway. =|

[Venatio]

I think that, altruistic goals aside, its best to kill him in the very very long run. Yes a blight will come, inevitably, but that is the only way to assure that every Old God is brought to the surface. Besides, without Blight there would be no Grey Wardens - the Order would slowly start to run out of its reserves of Archdemon blood (minus the cache they should have gotten from Urthemial - the Origins one) and thus the order would wane into obscurity.

They could find a "substitute" for Archdemon blood but that would prove difficult.

I say let the blights come, and with them the Grey Wardens shall become more powerful untill the day that they will be able to scourge the Darkspawn from the world once and for all.

The Darkspawn are not to be pitied, they dont breed like a true race, rather they are parasites and must kidnap the females of other races and perform unspeakable horrors upon them to turn them into Broodmothers. That alone would ensure contact and warefare between them and everyone else.

Modifié par Venatio, 18 mars 2010 - 03:26 .

[this isnt my name]

Well yes he is, he want other races to be like the darkspawn, why should all others change to the darkspawn why cant they change ? They are the agressive ones, so yeah imo he is evil.

[Deathstyk85]

the architect was the "any means necessary" to save my people kind of thing, much like the illusive man in mass effect. "evil" is open to interpretation, and in his he isnt.

[Venatio]

Deathstyk85 wrote...

the architect was the "any means necessary" to save my people kind of thing, much like the illusive man in mass effect. "evil" is open to interpretation, and in his he isnt.

But are his people worth saving - thats the question isnt it? For starters, they're more like parasite with their need to leech off of other races to produce Broodmothers. Secondly, they are squatting on Dwarven lands and they're success runs parrallel with Dwarven ruin and misfortunes.

Had the Architect been born among Humnas, Elves, Dwarves, or even the Qunari he would have been a great guy. As it stands, in my book, take him down!

[mrp383]

all he has ever known is evil thus he can be only evil.

[Venatio]

mrp383 wrote...

all he has ever known is evil thus he can be only evil.

Rather black and white but workable. One mans rise is another mans fall, and between you and the Architect I think we know whose coming out on top if choice plays a role.  

[ObserverStatus]

Bioware deliberately made it hard to tell if he is evil or not so the player would have to think. One way Dragon Age is better than Mass Effect is the lack of magical colored bars to think for you.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

bobobo878 wrote...

Bioware deliberately made it hard to tell if he is evil or not so the player would have to think. One way Dragon Age is better than Mass Effect is the lack of magical colored bars to think for you.

Not really in the case of the Architect. They make the player guess more than anything.

The book makes him seem really evil, where his plot is to turn the entire world into Grey Warden Darkspawn to "end" the blight. Then I guess between the book and the game he discovers that Warden blood can make the darkspawn resist the taint and ignore the Old Gods' "songs" and he says he just wants to free his people, but he still wants to end the blight. If you keep him alive the Mother says he was responsible for the Blight in the core game...

So the player has to guess. If you've read the book then you don't know if he's telling you the whole truth. If you just play the game he doesn't seem evil, but there's not nearly enough evidence to decide for sure. Even the consequences are ambiguous so you can't make a meta-game decision either.

I guess in a way that qualifies as making the player think, but if there is no consequence... then what's the point of the decision in the first place? Sequels? Doesn't seem likely.

[fantasypisces]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Bioware deliberately made it hard to tell if he is evil or not so the player would have to think. One way Dragon Age is better than Mass Effect is the lack of magical colored bars to think for you.

Not really in the case of the Architect. They make the player guess more than anything.

The book makes him seem really evil, where his plot is to turn the entire world into Grey Warden Darkspawn to "end" the blight. Then I guess between the book and the game he discovers that Warden blood can make the darkspawn resist the taint and ignore the Old Gods' "songs" and he says he just wants to free his people, but he still wants to end the blight. If you keep him alive the Mother says he was responsible for the Blight in the core game...

So the player has to guess. If you've read the book then you don't know if he's telling you the whole truth. If you just play the game he doesn't seem evil, but there's not nearly enough evidence to decide for sure. Even the consequences are ambiguous so you can't make a meta-game decision either.

I guess in a way that qualifies as making the player think, but if there is no consequence... then what's the point of the decision in the first place? Sequels? Doesn't seem likely.

This.

I said earlier (or another post) the story would have been great for a sequel, but it was to rushed for an expansion. There just isn't enough information to make an informed opinion. Took me 20 minutes of smoking and the game on pause to decide I was killing the Architect, because I had to go through everything my character knew, not what "I as a player" knew. And that was hard, because my character didn't really know jack. The final lowblow was it seems a lot of the characters wanted you to work with the Architect (or at least in my party Nathaniel and Oghren did - which confused me as to why Oghren would - and I took an approval hit). Anders wanted me to kill him, but gave no approval bump. In the end I killed him. I'm fine with it, I'm pretty sure I made the right decision.

But based on the epilogue it doesn't look like there is an expansion dealing with Ferelden anymore. Our characters aren't the Commanders anymore.

[Jax Sparrow]

I say his soul is destined to get recycled in 99.99999% of my playthroughs.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

The whole help him/kill him thing really kicked my arse.

Just like fantasypisces, I had my game on pause for about good 20-25 minutes to decide what to do. As both me and my character since she's a lot like me, yet very different. I didn't trust Archie, she didn't trust Archie, yet while I would kill him no questions asked as he is still darkspawn and in my mind Darkspawn = utter evil, my PC wants to stop Blights from ever happening again. She agreed to help him (knowing that smart Darkspawn could make things a lot worse for everyone), much to Sigrun's disgust. I knew that neither decision is truly "right", so I guess we'll see the possible effects in the future.



Also, who cares about our PCs not being Warden Commanders? If there's a threat, not just Darkspawn, any threat to my PC's love, brother and friends, I guarantee you she will come, sword in hand and beat whatever is bothering her life into submission. As long as there is a threat, there is my PC.

[Jax Sparrow]

My toon is prince-consort, so I am tickled pink with him going back to court and giving Loghain a grandchild.

[Valtor232]

I don't think he is

[Tankenminnet]

Depends on how you see it, and "evil" is such a subjective term. I read the book and had big hopes for the expansion to finally have a proper antagonist, or whatever. If you look at all the trailers, and I did! There's no mention of The Mother. She's the antagonist in the game, not the Architect- it's not right. Why is The Mother the final boss, a rogue 'creation' of his? I was really ****ing expecting that after killing her, I'd confront the architect one way or the other. But no.



He's not shown enough in the game either. He doesn't make any appearances apart from a few cutscenes where he says mysterious things to Utha, and those things are never explained. What promises? What what? I can only imagine how it must be even more confusing for someone who hasn't read The Calling. Like... who the heck is this dude?



Also, did anyone else find it a bit ironic that he's all about giving the darkspawn a choice but since The Mother doesn't share his point of view he wishes to kill her? Sure, she wishes to kill him, but he's a bit of a hypocrite.

[Bfler]

The problem is that in the game the Architect is only a supporting actor and you get very little knowledge about him. At the end he says a few lines and that is all, nothing more.

Concidering the fact that there was created such a hype around him thats unsatisfactory.

[Morroian]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Bioware deliberately made it hard to tell if he is evil or not so the player would have to think. One way Dragon Age is better than Mass Effect is the lack of magical colored bars to think for you.

Not really in the case of the Architect. They make the player guess more than anything.

The book makes him seem really evil, where his plot is to turn the entire world into Grey Warden Darkspawn to "end" the blight.

Not IMHO. As others have said he's simply ignorant and doing the best with what knowledge he has. His plan was evil yes but I don't think he was.