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[Internet Kraken]

Harbinger wanted to create a Reaper from the Rachni. He believed that the Rachni had the greatest potential. Based on the Keepers and Collectors, one can assume that they favor insectoid species, or at least find them to be useful. So he manipulated the Rachni so that they would overwhelm all of the other species and become dominant in the galaxy, much like the Protheans were.



/crazy speculation

[silentstephi]

Not sure if it helps or hinders... but the derelict Reaper was a mess for a reason. It makes me wonder if there's other "Reaper" bits out there that might have latent indoctrination vibes? Kind of like Anne McCaffrey's Rowan series, with the Hives and the fizztbit metal... couldn't find a wiki article on it, but if anyone is familiar with the series, they might get the reference.

[eternalnightmare13]

The asari on Illos mentions that the rachni repaired her ship and it works better then ever.  She says that the way that they all worked together and the nature of the repairs reminded her of the Collectors.  We know that the collectors were made by whoever made the Reapers.  Chorban even sends an email saying that he's found scientific evidence to suppor this idea. 

What if who ever built the Reapers or even the Reapers themselves genetically engineered the rachni as a foot soldier. 

[Exile Isan]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
The asari on Illos mentions that the rachni repaired her ship and it works better then ever.  She says that the way that they all worked together and the nature of the repairs reminded her of the Collectors.  We know that the collectors were made by whoever made the Reapers.  Chorban even sends an email saying that he's found scientific evidence to suppor this idea. 

Illium... and you mean keepers.

My sister and I were speculating that the Reapers (most likely Nazara) indoctrinated the Rachni and pitted them against the races of the galaxy (asari, salarian, volus, etc) to see who was the best match for "ascension". None of those were sucessful, but the krogan were. If you fight Harbinger with Grunt in your squad he calls Grunt  a wasted potential, perhaps due to the genophage they were scratched off the list of potentials?

[Wildecker]

enormousmoonboots wrote...
Okay, so the Rachni Wars were caused by indoctrination, right? Well, indoctrination by who? Sovereign is a possibility, but his function was to open the Citadel relay, not indoctrinate an entire species (also raises the question of 'where exactly was Sovereign, before the game started?' Did the Reapers send him out 'on foot' once the Citadel Relay didn't open? Was he waiting in the galaxy? Maybe at the Collector Base?).

When the other Reapers left, Sovereign stayed on location to watch the evolving civilisations of the galaxy and to activate the Citadel when it considered them ripe for the harvest.
When the Asari and the Salarians had founded the Council, Sovereign gave the signal the Keepers, but they did not respond. It evaluated its chance to conquer the Citadel and came to the conclusion that the combined forces of the Asari and the Salarians would be able to withstand. So it started looking for expendable allies.
It picked the Rachni. I guess it did so because with a hive structure, you only need to indoctrinate the queen, and the workers and soldiers fall in line. The Rachni of the indoctrinated queen then were guided to expand into areas the Council could be expected to explore soon, and the Rachni Wars started - after all, to the Asari and the Salarians one Rachni was like any other, so they would not hesitate to attack Rachni hives that were not involved yet.

The Collector Base had the capability to build a new Reaper, so it seems reasonable that it would also serve as a maintenance facility for Sovereign during its long watch (and for other Reapers who suffered damage during the harvest). My personal guess is that Sovereign was in charge of the Collector Base and the genetic evaluation program to determine the right time to call the Reapers back. Sovereign activated Harbinger when it was prepared to attack the Citadel and transferred control of the Collector General to Harbinger "just in case".

Modifié par Wildecker, 18 mars 2010 - 05:30 .

[masseffectfan00]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Harbinger wanted to create a Reaper from the Rachni. He believed that the Rachni had the greatest potential. Based on the Keepers and Collectors, one can assume that they favor insectoid species, or at least find them to be useful. So he manipulated the Rachni so that they would overwhelm all of the other species and become dominant in the galaxy, much like the Protheans were.

/crazy speculation

Protheans got changed into the Collectors.

[Internet Kraken]

masseffectfan00 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Harbinger wanted to create a Reaper from the Rachni. He believed that the Rachni had the greatest potential. Based on the Keepers and Collectors, one can assume that they favor insectoid species, or at least find them to be useful. So he manipulated the Rachni so that they would overwhelm all of the other species and become dominant in the galaxy, much like the Protheans were.

/crazy speculation

Protheans got changed into the Collectors.

Yeah, becuase the Prothean Reaper failed. What exactly is your point?

[Mallissin]

Exile Isan wrote...
My sister and I were speculating that the Reapers (most likely Nazara) indoctrinated the Rachni and pitted them against the races of the galaxy (asari, salarian, volus, etc) to see who was the best match for "ascension". None of those were sucessful, but the krogan were. If you fight Harbinger with Grunt in your squad he calls Grunt  a wasted potential, perhaps due to the genophage they were scratched off the list of potentials?

Nazara/Sovereign wasn't available to indoctrinate the Rachni. He was in a crater on Dis. Maybe Harbinger and the Collectors did it?

The Krogans are probably considered wasted potential, not because of the genophage, but because they were made space fairing instead of learning to do it themselves. Sovereign says during his ME1 speech that they left the relays and Citadel so we'd evolve along their technology. Krogans were just handed ships to fight in, they really didn't learn their way into space like the Reapers want each race to do.

[masseffectfan00]

Internet Kraken wrote...

masseffectfan00 wrote...

Internet Kraken wrote...

Harbinger wanted to create a Reaper from the Rachni. He believed that the Rachni had the greatest potential. Based on the Keepers and Collectors, one can assume that they favor insectoid species, or at least find them to be useful. So he manipulated the Rachni so that they would overwhelm all of the other species and become dominant in the galaxy, much like the Protheans were.

/crazy speculation

Protheans got changed into the Collectors.

Yeah, becuase the Prothean Reaper failed. What exactly is your point?

Protheans weren't these insect dudes like the Collectors.  They originally looked like the statues on Ilos.  You said the Reapers favored insect types dudes but it's just a coinsidence

[Wildecker]

Mallissin wrote...

Nazara/Sovereign wasn't available to indoctrinate the Rachni. He was in a crater on Dis. Maybe Harbinger and the Collectors did it?

Did it ever occur to you that the Leviathan on Dis was not a Reaper, let alone Sovereign/Nazara, but something else, and that the Batarians were involved in its disappearance?

[Mnemnosyne]

Wildecker wrote...

When the other Reapers left, Sovereign stayed on location to watch the evolving civilisations of the galaxy and to activate the Citadel when it considered them ripe for the harvest.
When the Asari and the Salarians had founded the Council, Sovereign gave the signal the Keepers, but they did not respond. It evaluated its chance to conquer the Citadel and came to the conclusion that the combined forces of the Asari and the Salarians would be able to withstand. So it started looking for expendable allies.
It picked the Rachni. I guess it did so because with a hive structure, you only need to indoctrinate the queen, and the workers and soldiers fall in line. The Rachni of the indoctrinated queen then were guided to expand into areas the Council could be expected to explore soon, and the Rachni Wars started - after all, to the Asari and the Salarians one Rachni was like any other, so they would not hesitate to attack Rachni hives that were not involved yet.

The Collector Base had the capability to build a new Reaper, so it seems reasonable that it would also serve as a maintenance facility for Sovereign during its long watch (and for other Reapers who suffered damage during the harvest). My personal guess is that Sovereign was in charge of the Collector Base and the genetic evaluation program to determine the right time to call the Reapers back. Sovereign activated Harbinger when it was prepared to attack the Citadel and transferred control of the Collector General to Harbinger "just in case".

This seems like the most logical series of events to me, overall.  There is no telling exactly when Sovereign first sent the signal to activate the Citadel and when it failed, it may well have been a couple millenia ago, and he then looked for allies and found the rachni, which are extremely good for this purpose since as noted, only the queens need to be indoctrinated.

[Zulu_DFA]

1. Rachni queen was lying all along to get spared.



2. Rachni were indoctrinated. But it's their fault. And they will be indoctrinated again, when the reapers come (provided you saved the queen and it somehow miraculously escaped unnoticed from a frozen world with high-end battlestations in orbit).

[Wildecker]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. Rachni queen was lying all along to get spared.

Maybe. But then, why did she give her Asari tool a message for me instead of staying silent?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

2. Rachni were indoctrinated. But it's their fault. And they will be indoctrinated again, when the reapers come (provided you saved the queen and it somehow miraculously escaped unnoticed from a frozen world with high-end battlestations in orbit).

Indoctrination needs time. Several days at the very least, but probably weeks under the influence.
Just another good reason for the new Rachni to stay in deep cover until the time the galactic civilisations need all the help they can get against the Reapers. Then the Rachni can show up, side with the defenders and earn the sort of "we owe you" the Alliance gained at the Citadel.

[enormousmoonboots]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. Rachni queen was lying all along to get spared.

Again, how did she come up with this extremely specific lie, which sounds exactly like indoctrination, off the top of her head?

2. Rachni were indoctrinated. But it's their fault. And they will be indoctrinated again, when the reapers come (provided you saved the queen and it somehow miraculously escaped unnoticed from a frozen world with high-end battlestations in orbit).

...
...
...wait, what? Getting indoctrinated is...their fault? Huh?

[DipCheese83]

Didn't Vigil say the Reapers always leave one of their own behind to (Sovereign).

[ObserverStatus]

I'll bet the Bugs were indoctrinated too

[Zulu_DFA]

Wildecker wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. Rachni queen was lying all along to get spared.

Maybe. But then, why did she give her Asari tool a message for me instead of staying silent?

Because

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1. Rachni queen was lying all along.

Wildecker wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

2. Rachni were indoctrinated. But it's their fault. And they will be indoctrinated again, when the reapers come (provided you saved the queen and it somehow miraculously escaped unnoticed from a frozen world with high-end battlestations in orbit).

Indoctrination needs time. Several days at the very least, but probably weeks under the influence.
Just another good reason for the new Rachni to stay in deep cover until the time the galactic civilisations need all the help they can get against the Reapers. Then the Rachni can show up, side with the defenders and earn the sort of "we owe you" the Alliance gained at the Citadel.

And "Asari tool" even sounds creepy. Not in my game, of course, notany more. I took care of this disgusting lifeform, that uses dead asari to communicate. I hope you will be surprised very unpleasantly when your rachni show up.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 mars 2010 - 08:32 .

[Netzach]

The Rachni were test subjects, they were indoctrinated to attack the rest of civilizations to prove which one were the chosen one or if the galaxy was ready to the harvesting.

[Zulu_DFA]

bobobo878 wrote...

I'll bet the Bugs were indoctrinated too

Sure. It it weren't for the Reapers all species would have lived in rose peace and sunflower harmony, ever!

[LPPrince]

Wildecker wrote...

Mallissin wrote...

Nazara/Sovereign wasn't available to indoctrinate the Rachni. He was in a crater on Dis. Maybe Harbinger and the Collectors did it?

Did it ever occur to you that the Leviathan on Dis was not a Reaper, let alone Sovereign/Nazara, but something else, and that the Batarians were involved in its disappearance?

Did either of you play ME2?

The Leviathan of Dis was the Derelict Reaper we took the IFF from.

TIM mentioned they found the weapon that caused The Great Rift Valley on Klendagon.

Batarians moved the Derelict Reaper from Dis to wherever it was found in ME2(slipped my mind).

Lord knows what happened to them. Well, indoctrinated obviously, but from there.

[ObserverStatus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Sure. It it weren't for the Reapers all species would have lived in rose peace and sunflower harmony, ever!

What, are you saying I sound like Mel Gibson?

[Mcjon01]

LPPrince wrote...

Did either of you play ME2?

The Leviathan of Dis was the Derelict Reaper we took the IFF from.

TIM mentioned they found the weapon that caused The Great Rift Valley on Klendagon.

Batarians moved the Derelict Reaper from Dis to wherever it was found in ME2(slipped my mind).

Lord knows what happened to them. Well, indoctrinated obviously, but from there.

That's... not what happened at all.  Like, not even close.

[Zulu_DFA]

bobobo878 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Sure. It it weren't for the Reapers all species would have lived in rose peace and sunflower harmony, ever!

What, are you saying I sound like Mel Gibson?

What does Mel Gibson sound like?

You sound ironical, I build up on that.

[ObserverStatus]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
What does Mel Gibson sound like?
You sound ironical, I build up on that.

Mel Gibson sounds like "all the world's problems are ________'s fault"

[Mnemnosyne]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

1. Rachni queen was lying all along to get spared.

2. Rachni were indoctrinated. But it's their fault. And they will be indoctrinated again, when the reapers come (provided you saved the queen and it somehow miraculously escaped unnoticed from a frozen world with high-end battlestations in orbit).

While honestly I would really, really hope that #1 is true, I doubt it is.  Wouldn't make sense for her to send an emissary to talk to Shepard if it was.  She got away, nobody knows where she is, and as long as she doesn't go a murderin', Shepard isn't even going to try to come after her, and it would be unwise to go a murderin' so soon without having gathered a massive fleet.

#2 is more likely to be possible, and honestly I really hope that the decision to spare the rachni - or any 'feel good but tactically unsound' decision, for that matter, comes back to bite Shepard in the butt someday.  Doing the 'paragon' thing often turns out to be the wrong long-term choice, and I would be quite pleased if they take the hard, realistic line, and there are at least a couple examples of such decisions that turn out very badly, whether it's with this decision or others.