55 réponses à ce sujet

[Booglarize]

nick05son wrote...

not at all.. i dont even feel like playing through it again i dont understand how mass effect can have amazing endings leaving you wanting so much more and dragon age with this garb being from the same company.

The key difference, as I see it (and as I've probably said elsewhere on the forums maybe a dozen times), was that the Mass Effect folk knew exactly what they were doing (a trilogy with the same story carrying through the games), whereas the Dragon Age crew seemed unsure as to whether Awakening was meant to be a part of the story started in Origins or a separate one all on its own. I think it tried to do a bit of both, and as a result, didn't do either particularly well. 

Modifié par Booglarize, 18 mars 2010 - 05:32 .

[nick05son]

i agree with you that it seems like they weren't sure where awakening fit in..but seeing as the epilogue is just a piece of writing im still confused as to why they would write off the main character in that way ...its almost like he went backwards..resigning as commander leaving the wardens an dissapearing poof, if thats the idea of a cliffhanger im not excited to see what happens to him . But like you said awakening did have an identity problem,,but as for the main character in the epilogue it just feels sour as hell.

[tmelange]

nick05son wrote...

tmelange since you are the creator of this post what is your take on the epilogue did it ****** you off also feeling like your main character just got written off already..leaving the wardens etc.?

I didn't feel pissed off. I felt resigned, and I no longer cared. It seemed very evident to me that I would likely never get a mapped continuation of my warden's story. That this game was to be put away like Jade Empire, even though it was designed with a unique type of opened ended structure that required complete investiture.

Overall, I'm just really confused. IMHO, the "choice" system is the single player substitute for the multiplayer component that sells games for the shooter masses. BW seems to be thinking that the hook is the tool set, but that is the old hook, relevant only to PC players. The social hook across format (as evidenced by this social forum) in this single player game is the choice system, the point around which community is built. It makes little sense not to develop around those choices, and the acknowledgment that to maintain relevant choices you have to keep standard characters in play. Simply building out the land/history/lore with a revolving cast of characters is not enough to form the basis of a social community.

Modifié par tmelange, 18 mars 2010 - 05:50 .

[fantasypisces]

tmelange wrote...

nick05son wrote...

tmelange since you are the creator of this post what is your take on the epilogue did it ****** you off also feeling like your main character just got written off already..leaving the wardens etc.?

I didn't feel pissed off. I felt resigned, and I no longer cared. It seemed very evident to me that I would likely never get a mapped continuation of my warden's story. That this game was to be put away like Jade Empire, even though it was designed with a unique type of opened ended structure that required complete investiture.

Overall, I'm just really confused. IMHO, the "choice" system is the single player substitute for the multiplayer component that sells games for the shooter masses. BW seems to be thinking that the hook is the tool set, but that is the old hook, relevant only to PC players. The social hook across format (as evidence by this social forum) in this single player game is the choice system, the point around which community is built. It makes little sense not to develop around those choices, and the acknowledgment that to maintain relevant choices you have to keep standard characters in play. Simply building out the land/history/lore with a revolving cast of characters is not enough to form the basis of a social community.

I think they seriously messed up by introducing so many new characters, it just made it overwhelming. By the end of the game I still knew nothing about 3 of them (Sigrun, Velanna, Justice) and didn't really care.

They should have brought more old characters and made less new ones. They just didn't want to do that because some of the old characters could have died, which means they wouldn't have been in everyone's games. In which case, tough crud for those people, consequences.

[MColes]

Dragon Age 2 in Feb tmelange, you'll be back to carry on. Awakenings is a bit of a learning experience for the proper sequal, and likely the next expansion that ties the 2 games together neatly. The perfect example is between ME 1 and ME2, look how well they listened to what people said and wanted, and then changed things so dramatically. I loved ME1 with a passion, but I loved ME2 even more. I have faith in a similar outcome with Dragon age's actual numbered games. Awakenings is giant DLC to help keep us busy till DA2 is finished.

[MiSsSmOkEy20]

I liked the game. I didnt like the interactions with the NPC's either. I dont like the "Mass Effect" interactions, I prefer to talk to the NPC's and learn their back stories and such. I would of liked to see all the previous party members, I had Wynne and Oghren at 100 approval and they acted like it meant nothing so that did suck. I didnt like the ending for the PC either, it says the PC just vanished with no reason. Does that mean that my romance with Alistair is over? My PC was married to him and Im sure he didnt "vanish" with her since he is king and cant just leave. Im attached to my PC so if something is going to happen to her Id like to know all the information not that she just vanished.

[J-Reyno]

6.5 for me. Things I don't agree with:

- More of past companions. I didn't mind it, honestly. Of course, I was definitely a little miffed that Alistair showed up and couldn't drop the formality for a very good friend.

- Companion dialogue. I like the way the dialogue was done. There was, however, too little of it. FAR too little.

- Plot. Great at the beginning, but totally confused/bored me later on

Still, I had the same feeling as you when I finished, Or rather, about an hour before the end. I was ready for it to be over, and when it was I didn't bother with it any more. Also, I thought it was a little awful how they forced the PC to leave the Wardens (I'm assuming they have reason for this), but I was lucky enough to be playing a character whose personality allowed for it. Throwing in the part about him reuniting with Leliana was a pleasant surprise and happily received, so I appreciated that. It was something he was very likely to do. I don't have it in me for another go-around, though.

[Slukers]

speaking of the epilogue, it is strange that my character would just leave the wardens there after being a commander... I liked in the origins epilogue where I got to mention (by my own choice) what I would do after...

[cmessaz]

Wow, you pretty much summed up how I feel. I also just finished as a human noble female married to Alistair. From what I understand, if you took off with Alistair/Zevran at the end of Origins, there is NO mention of anything about them until the end. And even then, it doesn't explain where they were. I thought they did a good job with story in Origins, and while I was sort of expecting these things since the FAQ for Awakening was released, I am still surprised. So I suppose we are just supposed to guess what happened? There is nothing! Not even a codex on the other companions. And Wynne. "Oh hi, congratulations! Please go run an errand for me, bye! I have important things to attend to." Origins gets you involved. You befriend your companions. I would even be ok with them not being in my party in Awakening, but at least tell me whats going on! And they replaced them with good characters, but I can't get to know them like I did in Origins. (I would really like to, they are good characters). I hope that Bioware reads these forums and takes what we say in consideration while making whatever comes next for DA. What sucks now is I just tried starting a new file in origins, but for some reason I can't get into it. Awakening was fun, but it almost took something out of DA for me. Not sure why.

Modifié par cmessaz, 18 mars 2010 - 06:22 .

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

I just hope our PCs aren't written off. My PCs story feels far from over. No lousy little message across the screen will tell me that her story is over. For her story to be truly over she needs to have romanceable Leliana in at least one full game (unless an expansion would have been amazing, which I doubt), a meeting with Fergus, and a damn good chat/fight with the Architect. All that and a good ending. Which means no little stupid massages, but a proper cutscene.



There is still so much to do. So many places to go to. All with our current PCs. If people feel their story was done in Origins or Awakening, fine, they can always create a new character for the sequel.

I'm sure, I'm not the only one who feels that there is more to their characters than there is already, am I?

[MiSsSmOkEy20]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

I just hope our PCs aren't written off. My PCs story feels far from over. No lousy little message across the screen will tell me that her story is over. For her story to be truly over she needs to have romanceable Leliana in at least one full game (unless an expansion would have been amazing, which I doubt), a meeting with Fergus, and a damn good chat/fight with the Architect. All that and a good ending. Which means no little stupid massages, but a proper cutscene.

There is still so much to do. So many places to go to. All with our current PCs. If people feel their story was done in Origins or Awakening, fine, they can always create a new character for the sequel.
I'm sure, I'm not the only one who feels that there is more to their characters than there is already, am I?

Nope I agree. My main PC is the only one that Im attached to and I dont want to have to forget about her already, especially since there is still a lot of unanswered questions. I wish it would of said in the epilogue that she had a child and then you play as your PC's child in DA2 kinda like Fable. Then it would of been a lot easier knowing your PC isnt just going to be forgotten and never heard from or about again.

[MColes]

Take a lesson from Awakenings... The Epilogue doesn't count. Just like it didn't count for what happened from Origins, the Epilogue is just a way to wrap it up, but isn't a definitive "This is what happened."

[Corti78]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

I just hope our PCs aren't written off. My PCs story feels far from over. No lousy little message across the screen will tell me that her story is over. For her story to be truly over she needs to have romanceable Leliana in at least one full game (unless an expansion would have been amazing, which I doubt), a meeting with Fergus, and a damn good chat/fight with the Architect. All that and a good ending. Which means no little stupid massages, but a proper cutscene.

There is still so much to do. So many places to go to. All with our current PCs. If people feel their story was done in Origins or Awakening, fine, they can always create a new character for the sequel.
I'm sure, I'm not the only one who feels that there is more to their characters than there is already, am I?

Definitely. When it comes to games like this I get attached to my initial PC and no others regardless of how many I make. I agree that our PCs story seem far from finished. Especially since my PC was Queen and for her to suddenly vanish one day with no known reason seems incredibly odd. I would think all of Ferelden would be in sort of a panic for their queen to just leave without saying a word to anyone.

The only logical conclusion I can get from this is that Morrigan may have secretly contacted the PC about the "old god" child which prompted her to leave immediately. Possibly to meet up with Morrigan later on.

Modifié par Corti78, 18 mars 2010 - 06:40 .

[MColes]

Princess-Consort*, not really Queen. Or at the very most Queen-consort

[Lethias]

I totally agree with the writer of this post, have almost the same feelings. It was nice game and nice story etc but don't have the motivation to play it 10 times, like i had with the original game



Also the conversation system is really a big step back in my eyes, i hope it was only because it's just and expansion and they made it quite fast and thats why they used this ME style, and in DAO 2 they will go back to the original way. Conversations in the original game was a really strong side of the game i think, and made it really fun, i hope they go back to that in DAO2..

[HowlingSiren]

I agree with literally everything you wrote, both on the positive and negative - it's as though you read my mind. Origins remains the best game I ever played because of the gripping, epic storyline and more importantly, the interaction with your party members. This is the first game I've come across that portrays multi-dimensional, flawed characters that are so well-written and acted that I couldn't get enough of getting to know them. I restarted Origins the minute I finished it (and have replayed it an embarrassing and unhealthy number of times since) mainly because I wanted to experiment with the different dialogue options and outcomes.

I thought the Awakening characters had great potential to be as fascinating as the Origins characters - except of course you never get to know them...

I was actually quite thankful to read on the forums and the Bioware FAQ that Alistair wouldn't be making much of an appearance and that Oghren would. If I hadn't known, I probably would have thrown my game disc against the wall in frustration and disappointment. As it stands, I am choosing like many others to simply ignore the Awakening epilogue cards as they are too detached from the PC I have developed over many hours. My Warden, walk away? I don't think so.

Bioware, if I can leave you with my humble opinion: this was meant to be an expansion. Our choices and party members were what we were attached to. I enjoyed many, many aspects of Awakening, the Keep management in particular, but I sorely missed the continuity and interaction that made Origins unforgettable.

[tmelange]

MColes wrote...

Dragon Age 2 in Feb tmelange, you'll be back to carry on. Awakenings is a bit of a learning experience for the proper sequal, and likely the next expansion that ties the 2 games together neatly. The perfect example is between ME 1 and ME2, look how well they listened to what people said and wanted, and then changed things so dramatically. I loved ME1 with a passion, but I loved ME2 even more. I have faith in a similar outcome with Dragon age's actual numbered games. Awakenings is giant DLC to help keep us busy till DA2 is finished.

So you think the card inside the packaging that said Feb 2011 referenced a DA2 rather than another expansion? I would be...almost afraid of what we'd get so quickly. LOL

I can't imagine them substantively continuing the story of DAO. Everything they are saying seems to disparage the desire to continue on in a meaningful way.

I'm sure whatever they come up with will be great in its way.

[tmelange]

fantasypisces wrote...

tmelange wrote...

nick05son wrote...

tmelange since you are the creator of this post what is your take on the epilogue did it ****** you off also feeling like your main character just got written off already..leaving the wardens etc.?

I didn't feel pissed off. I felt resigned, and I no longer cared. It seemed very evident to me that I would likely never get a mapped continuation of my warden's story. That this game was to be put away like Jade Empire, even though it was designed with a unique type of opened ended structure that required complete investiture.

Overall, I'm just really confused. IMHO, the "choice" system is the single player substitute for the multiplayer component that sells games for the shooter masses. BW seems to be thinking that the hook is the tool set, but that is the old hook, relevant only to PC players. The social hook across format (as evidence by this social forum) in this single player game is the choice system, the point around which community is built. It makes little sense not to develop around those choices, and the acknowledgment that to maintain relevant choices you have to keep standard characters in play. Simply building out the land/history/lore with a revolving cast of characters is not enough to form the basis of a social community.

I think they seriously messed up by introducing so many new characters, it just made it overwhelming. By the end of the game I still knew nothing about 3 of them (Sigrun, Velanna, Justice) and didn't really care.

They should have brought more old characters and made less new ones. They just didn't want to do that because some of the old characters could have died, which means they wouldn't have been in everyone's games. In which case, tough crud for those people, consequences.

I thought it was *really* strange that we didn't get 2 things: 1) a trip back to Vigil's Keep during the battle or after, either the warden or via RPing a different character, the way we did in DAO; and 2) a conclusory interchange with the team your warden had recruited, congratulating them and acknowledging their trial by fire. It was really impossible to care overly much about your team with such stunted interaction. They all seemed interesting enough but as what they added to your fighting squad at the moment from a profile perspective, rather than as people you cared about. Missed opportunity, if you ask me.

[Corti78]

MColes wrote...

Princess-Consort*, not really Queen. Or at the very most Queen-consort

The epilogue acknowledges the PC as Queen now. No longer princess-consort.

[fantasypisces]

tmelange wrote...

MColes wrote...

Dragon Age 2 in Feb tmelange, you'll be back to carry on. Awakenings is a bit of a learning experience for the proper sequal, and likely the next expansion that ties the 2 games together neatly. The perfect example is between ME 1 and ME2, look how well they listened to what people said and wanted, and then changed things so dramatically. I loved ME1 with a passion, but I loved ME2 even more. I have faith in a similar outcome with Dragon age's actual numbered games. Awakenings is giant DLC to help keep us busy till DA2 is finished.

So you think the card inside the packaging that said Feb 2011 referenced a DA2 rather than another expansion? I would be...almost afraid of what we'd get so quickly. LOL

I can't imagine them substantively continuing the story of DAO. Everything they are saying seems to disparage the desire to continue on in a meaningful way.

I'm sure whatever they come up with will be great in its way.

Well, it woul dbe a good year and half in Feb2011 since Origins. Which could be enough time for a sequel. They pumped awakening out really quickly (although serious serious flaws) but shows they can build a world and get voice acting done in time. So if they had already begun work on the sequel really early (which they did say they began work on it before Origins was released) then I could see it.

Although I have no idea what they would do, besides "Here is nine new companions". With us probably having a different PC and the game world doesn't reflect any of our choices. I wouldn't be shocked.

Personally, I'm still saying what I was saying for Awakening, just give my main PC Leliana back and he will be fine with whatever you throw at him.

[fantasypisces]

tmelange wrote...

fantasypisces wrote...

tmelange wrote...

nick05son wrote...

tmelange since you are the creator of this post what is your take on the epilogue did it ****** you off also feeling like your main character just got written off already..leaving the wardens etc.?

I didn't feel pissed off. I felt resigned, and I no longer cared. It seemed very evident to me that I would likely never get a mapped continuation of my warden's story. That this game was to be put away like Jade Empire, even though it was designed with a unique type of opened ended structure that required complete investiture.

Overall, I'm just really confused. IMHO, the "choice" system is the single player substitute for the multiplayer component that sells games for the shooter masses. BW seems to be thinking that the hook is the tool set, but that is the old hook, relevant only to PC players. The social hook across format (as evidence by this social forum) in this single player game is the choice system, the point around which community is built. It makes little sense not to develop around those choices, and the acknowledgment that to maintain relevant choices you have to keep standard characters in play. Simply building out the land/history/lore with a revolving cast of characters is not enough to form the basis of a social community.

I think they seriously messed up by introducing so many new characters, it just made it overwhelming. By the end of the game I still knew nothing about 3 of them (Sigrun, Velanna, Justice) and didn't really care.

They should have brought more old characters and made less new ones. They just didn't want to do that because some of the old characters could have died, which means they wouldn't have been in everyone's games. In which case, tough crud for those people, consequences.

I thought it was *really* strange that we didn't get 2 things: 1) a trip back to Vigil's Keep during the battle or after, either the warden or via RPing a different character, the way we did in DAO; and 2) a conclusory interchange with the team your warden had recruited, congratulating them and acknowledging their trial by fire. It was really impossible to care overly much about your team with such stunted interaction. They all seemed interesting enough but as what they added to your fighting squad at the moment from a profile perspective, rather than as people you cared about. Missed opportunity, if you ask me.

Once again I agree with you. In the epilogue it said Sigrun, Velanna, and Justice died. And I didn't care. That makes me sick to my stomach. The only thing in the epilogue that made me remotely smile was Anders leaving, then two weeks later stumbling back, because it fit his character. The whole Leliana one sentence blurb pissed me off... "that's it!"

[tmelange]

cmessaz wrote...

Wow, you pretty much summed up how I feel. I also just finished as a human noble female married to Alistair. From what I understand, if you took off with Alistair/Zevran at the end of Origins, there is NO mention of anything about them until the end. And even then, it doesn't explain where they were. I thought they did a good job with story in Origins, and while I was sort of expecting these things since the FAQ for Awakening was released, I am still surprised. So I suppose we are just supposed to guess what happened? There is nothing! Not even a codex on the other companions. And Wynne. "Oh hi, congratulations! Please go run an errand for me, bye! I have important things to attend to." Origins gets you involved. You befriend your companions. I would even be ok with them not being in my party in Awakening, but at least tell me whats going on! And they replaced them with good characters, but I can't get to know them like I did in Origins. (I would really like to, they are good characters). I hope that Bioware reads these forums and takes what we say in consideration while making whatever comes next for DA. What sucks now is I just tried starting a new file in origins, but for some reason I can't get into it. Awakening was fun, but it almost took something out of DA for me. Not sure why.

There's nothing in the beginning about Alistair and Zev if you didn't go the marry Alistair route/ Oh, that would have driven me crazy. I'm glad I didn't import that character. I usually want most for my games to make basic sense, and i would simply hate not knowing a context.

I feel the same way about Awakening; It was fun but it seemed to take something away from my DA joy, for some reason. I guess I really didn't want to see the fun DA game where I didn't care about the characters. It's sort of like a one night stand: you can do it, and it might be lots of fun, but maybe it's not the type of fun that you want to have, and if you do it it could leave you feeling mildly to majorly dissatisfied...even though you had fun. LOL

[tmelange]

fantasypisces wrote...

Personally, I'm still saying what I was saying for Awakening, just give my main PC Leliana back and he will be fine with whatever you throw at him.

Exactly. They don't have to bring everyone back. We're not unreasonable, for the most part. Leliana, Zev and Dog should be back as a base minimum because they were LIs and had endings that don't preclude return. Then the rest--it would have to depend on circumstances. 

[Sanguinerin]

Admittedly I read most of your original post, tmelange, but skimmed some parts fearing spoilers. I do want to try to avoid them. I'm not finished yet, although I'm at the point of having decided to ***spoiler*** save Amaranthine. I don't know how much is left but I've already felt a great deal of closure over the game.



I'm enjoying it, yes, but it does feel like it's coming to an end after this. I'm losing or have lost the general excitement about carrying on after Awakening. I suppose we'll see in the future. I probably won't buy add-ons in such haste anymore, but we'll see.



I'll probably come check this post out again once I've finished. I intend to finish tomorrow after class.