86 réponses à ce sujet

[galesong1234]

For all of us hardcore fans that loved playing DAO, why did you have to go and change the one thing that we loved most about this game.

DAO was different than any other  RPG. We got to interact and fall in love with our companions. We loved our conversations. In fact, we look forward to them.

Okay, it might be kind'a awkard receiving a rose from Alistair in middle of killing darkspawn.  But it did give us pause to smile and giggle.  And we really like our roses and earings.

DAO breathed life into RPGs. With that said, why did you have to go and "F" it up with Awakenings?

I was okay with a brief visit from Alistair. I was okay with the tedium of running the Vigil. And I was okay that there was no romance.

But what happen to be able  to get to know our companions?

Anders:   Look! A tree. It feels great to be free.

What!?! Click object get dialogue. I'm don't want to talk to the tree or about the tree. I want to talk to pc.

You have just made DAO Awakenings another lonely rpg. We are  left to looting and killing. The only thing you added was followers who receive gifts.

If I wanted to play a looting and killing rpg. I would rather play Oblivion or Fallout. At least the loot is better in those games.

So I am on bended knee asking...no, pleading. If you put out a DAO 2 can you give us back our dialogue and romance options!!!

Sincerely,
A Very Sad DAO Game Fan

[Bryy_Miller]

You do know that David Gaider is just one of the writers, right?

[Myusha]

Don't speak for a majority.

I for one liked Awakenings better then Origins.

[galesong1234]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

You do know that David Gaider is just one of the writers, right?

Okay, I should have  put  Attention Bioware.  What can I say I was venting.  Just hoping they would listen.

[fantasypisces]

Erm, David Gaider just does the writing (amazing writing, not a fan of Awakening, but the writing was still spot on, just design was off), he isn't in charge of the game's design, flow, pace, etc.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

/signed Couldn't agree with the OP more. Look, I get the idea they were going for with companions "interacting" with the world, its just not at all fleshed out in Awakening, most likely due to time/budget constraints being an expansion and all.



To be honest its not the only part of awakening that kinda feels "rushed"

[J-Reyno]

I don't think you should be calling him out, but sure enough the dialogue in Origins was great to me as it was. At the same time, I thought the dialogue in Awakening showed serious potential to be even better. I was fond of the idea of being able to discuss the situation/environment with companions. Of course it was kind of hard to evaluatte the dialogue system properly since there wasn't much, but I enjoyed what I did experience of it. I can only hope that if there are future installments they will take the best of both worlds. A little free, camp chat and a little triggered world chat. Or a lot, actually, because it's fun to talk about the things at hand.

[ejoslin]

Maybe she mentioned him by name because he said in another thread that the dialog system was seriously broken... I have to agree with her.  It's not broken, and it's disheartening to see him say it is.

As far as speaking for a majority -- there's a reason that DAO won all the awards it did. It was the conversations, the getting to know the companions, that set it apart from everything else. I could see if DAO was a flop and was panned why they'd think it was broken. But instead, it was voted GOTY rpg, GOTY of all PC games, all the gaming sites was giving it perfect or close-to-perfect scores. Saying most people didn't find it broken is pretty fair.

What I really don't understand is why, when something was THAT successful, why it's being seen as a failure and something that needs to be completely overhauled.

Edit: yes, I did.  My first sentence sounded like I was saying the complete opposite of what I was saying!  Also clarified that it won PC GOTY, not just GOTY.  That was my bad.  I always think "PC" and forget about console games.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2010 - 11:50 .

[Ignus Burns]

Well, I don't agree that the old system was broken but it certainly had some serious flaws.



For example, you could practically finish all dialogue with a companion during one camp visit.



Won't get to play Awakenings until tomorrow but to me it sounds like an improvement.

[HoonDing]

ejoslin wrote...

GOTY of all games

Only Gamasutra named Dragon Age GOTY of all games. The rest of gaming sites either nominated Uncharted 2 or Call of Duty 2. 

[ejoslin]

Well, even though you COULD do that, you certainly didn't have to. But that's something that can be refined rather than just tossed out. Still, it doesn't change the fact that he was saying the system was broken. IF that were really the case, DAO wouldn't have been the outstanding success that it was.



It won all these awards despite the serious bugs that plagued it when it was released. I saw reviews that mentioned them and still encouraged people to buy the game, and maybe knocked off a little bit because of the bugs, not because of the content.

[ejoslin]

virumor wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

GOTY of all games

Only Gamasutra named Dragon Age GOTY of all games. The rest of gaming sites either nominated Uncharted 2 or Call of Duty 2. 

Sorry, I'm PC centric.  I'll fix my post and make it VERY clear that it won PC GOTY, which it did.  I play on a PC.  I forgot about the consoles.

My point remains the same.  

Edit: Nitpicking on small details does not change the fact that it won a ton of awards, including PC GOTY and GOTY rpg on more than one site.  This did not happen because most people thought the dialog system was broken.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2010 - 10:58 .

[Apallous]

I completely disagree with the OP.

I think there was plenty of character developement in Awakening I just wish the game lasted a little longer. I love the rich back stories but why would I want to idle in town clicking away on a PC, I rather the back stories be unvealed while I'm playing through the game. This isn't some sort of single player cheesy cyber-sex roleplay romance generator, but hey if thats what you're into there are mods for that. Do I really have to boost my character's moral every new game by standing in lothering and spaming each one with "conversations," for 30 minutes.

Modifié par Apallous, 18 mars 2010 - 11:00 .

[miltos33]

Yes, there is no way that DAO was GOTY 2009. The general consensus is that Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 was GOTY 2009. Personally, I like DAO much more but...

[HoonDing]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Nitpicking on small details does not change the fact that it won a ton of awards, including PC GOTY and GOTY rpg on more than one site.  This did not happen because most people thought the dialog system was broken.

I do not think anyone thinks the dialog system is broken... it is exactly the same like in KOTOR, Jade Empire & Mass Effect... returning to the Ebon Hawk/party camp/Normandy after a main mission and chatting up companions if they have new dialogue options. It was exactly what people would expect from a modern BioWare game... I think what contributed the most to the wildly positive acclaim was the new setting, story & combat system.

[iSkelly]

What people don't understand here is that this is an *expansion*. Everybody is expecting too much from it, acting like its a sequel when it isn't. They had to cut out love interests and very intricate conversations to make room for gameplay and still have a quick release date. I'm sure Dragon Age 2 will have all the conversations and love interests and whatever else you want, and then some. But this is merely an expansion. For just being an expansion, I thought it was phenomenal. Sure it was a bit buggy, but it was still perfectly playable. The story was still amazingly well thought out, and it held true to BioWare's previous work. I'm sure they weren't too happy about limiting conversations, but they had to.

[ejoslin]

virumor wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Nitpicking on small details does not change the fact that it won a ton of awards, including PC GOTY and GOTY rpg on more than one site.  This did not happen because most people thought the dialog system was broken.

I do not think anyone thinks the dialog system is broken... it is exactly the same like in KOTOR, Jade Empire & Mass Effect... returning to the Ebon Hawk/party camp/Normandy after a main mission and chatting up companions if they have new dialogue options. It was exactly what people would expect from a modern BioWare game... I think what contributed the most to the wildly positive acclaim was the new setting, story & combat system.

My point was that DAVID GAIDER said the dialog system in DA:O was broken. The subject of this thread was not invalid. Further reading of that thread shows that he IS listening to people on this, but it doesn't take away the fact that he said it was broken.   [edit] To be fair, he IS looking for suggestions and trying to find something that will work.  But just throwing out something that worked quite well and in fact set the game apart from the others on the market instead of tweaking it and making it better -- it doesn't make sense given how successful DA:O is. [end edit]

The setting and story of DAO are amazing.  Combat is good too.  Dialog is fabulous.  Side quests, meh.  Bugs, lots.  Won lots of awards anyway with reviewers telling you to buy it despite the bugs and despite the tacked-on-feeling sidequests and either not subtracting much or still giving it a perfect score says a LOT of people liked all of the game.

Edit: I guess what people aren't getting is that there are other threads here where the writers are contributing.  I fully understand why awakenings had dialog the way it does.  I don't understand all the cuts (why cut out LETTERS that were originally in the game), but ok, whatever.  But when the writers are saying, no, the dialog system is broken and we think this is BETTER, people get upset and nervous.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2010 - 11:22 .

[HoonDing]

Personally I'm all for a return to the dialogue system of Baldur's Gate 2. It doesn't make sense characters one leaves at camp all the time are willing to share their entire life story (not to mention their bed) with the main character. In an adventuring party, trust & friendship should come from braving dangers together.

[ejoslin]

I agree that if you don't take someone out, there shouldn't be the same amount of trust built, but I also think there should still be conversations available in a more relaxed setting as well. Maybe those "quiet" conversations should not have approval tied to them. I agree that DA:O's system isn't perfect. In fact, one funny thing is turning on a romance (Alistair especially) after he's at 100 Friendly.

But things like that only became apparent to me after playing through a few times.

When you look at people (I'm guilty of this) who spend much time discussing their favorite romance partner, who either trash or stand up for various companions (Wynne hate threads come to mind), fangirls (mainly Alistair ones -- sorry ladies, we Zev fans have to have a thicker skin) who stand up for "their man" no matter what and get offended when he's trashed. These conversations created something, I don't know, magical, really. Taking them out and putting in something more impersonal is not going to help the game.

There are games out there that have good stories, maybe even better combat, fun quests, etc. What sets DA:O above them is how you bond with your companions.

But i do agree that if you don't take your companions out, they shouldn't grow to love you anyway. But getting Sten to trust my character -- that felt like just as much of an accomplishment as anything else in the game. And the best way to do that is to take him everywhere, and then question him about his comments. Something like THAT would be great for all the companions.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2010 - 11:34 .

[mousestalker]

The problem with the new system is that I can't help but think that they adopted it to mask the reduction in dialogue between origin and awakening. Origins had a tremendous amount of dialogue with a dizzying array of conversational choices. I may be wrong, and likely am, but I haven't experienced anywhere near that level of depth in Awankening.



I don't know if DA:O was game of the year, and Maker forgive me, I don't care. I do know that I enjoyed being able to do combat when I felt combative and to chat up Shale when I felt chatty.Clicking on Ser-Pounce-A-Lot is quite entertaining but it isn't an adequate replacement for getting to know your companions.



If Bioware is really concerned about gaining the adoration and loyalty of companions through dialogue then the proper approach would be to reduce the points given or taken away from camp conversation. Wynne's dialogues in Origins were that way. Even if she really liked your sucking up, she'd only dole out a +2 in approval (Ply her with a cheap bottle of muscatel and you'd get the more dramatic +10). I think that's the happy balance between the two alternatives.

[Helios969]

ejoslin wrote...

The setting and story of DAO are amazing.  Combat is good too.  Dialog is fabulous.  Side quests, meh.  Bugs, lots.  


It has a lot of bugs?  PC version?  Aside from being able to double attribute points when leveling up (a pretty good bug if you ask me,) and the occasional crash (like 5 times over hundreds of hours of gameplay,) I had no problems whatsoever.  And most of that was with the original store bought version.


In answer to this thread, yes it would have been nice to have conversation options and romances with the companions, but I'm sure such exclusions were done mostly for financial reasons.  DG may be the lead writer, but he undoubtedly has people above he answers to - people who control the money.  It would have taken more time and more money, and they clearly wanted to push the release date of this expansion to capitalize on DAO's success.  They are afterall out to make a profit.  Which could backfire, but probably will not.  I'm sure that the conversations and romances will be back in the sequel, if tweaked a bit in how it happens, which I'm assuming is what the postcard with the DA logo and 02.01.2011 refers to in the packaging.

I just finished the Wending Wood and Silverite Mine portion of the expansion and while there are a few quirks that really show it had been rushed to market, my overall impression thus far is positive.  Oghren as usual makes me laugh, especially when he performed the joining ritual, and the peripheral bantering between he and the other companions is good too.  I'm intrigued by talking darkspawn and the Architect and what the hell they're up to.  I'm bummed about Mhari though.  The least they could have done was make her obnoxious and/or unattractive so I wouldn't have cared as much.  And bringing the spawn of Howe into the mix was pretty good since I carried over my female human noble - good tension there.

[ejoslin]

Yeh, there were definitely bugs -- but after a few patches, most are ok. The worst was this memory leak. But there's still problems with DLCs uninstalling and then reinstalling themselves, rendering all content useless.

[cooldevo]

There was indeed some issues with Awakening, but I found the banter between Oghren, Anders, and Nathaniel absolutely hilarious for the most part. When Oghren and Anders were doing mock impressions of each other I couldn't even play the game I was laughing so hard.

[SirOccam]

Apallous wrote...

This isn't some sort of single player cheesy cyber-sex roleplay romance generator, but hey if thats what you're into there are mods for that.

I'm so tired of arguments like this. "You liked the romances? Then clearly you're just desperate and lonely in real life or are some kind of pervert!"

Why is it that romantic storylines are so looked down upon while slaughtering scores of people and darkspawn is accepted as a matter of course? Why aren't people insinuating that people who enjoy the violent parts have anger management issues or secretly long to murder someone in real life?

It's a game. A very richly detailed game with complex, multi-faceted characters and a wonderful system for developing relationships between those characters. This is a good thing, and to miss a major portion of it when it has been removed is only natural. Games full of nothing but mindless slaughter are a dime a dozen, but hey if that's what you're into feel free to ignore everything but the killing. The rest of us, meanwhile, enjoy the deeper, more personal drama that you can't get anywhere else.

[nicodeemus327]

Anders is one of my favorite characters in the entire series so far. The extra banter has been great.

Also, you can deal with not having a romance. Personally, I don't think a romance would have worked in this expansion. You were made Warden Commander. That doesn't mean your previous romance is suddenly void. You're just off doing your duty for Fereldan. You'll see each other again.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 18 mars 2010 - 01:32 .