86 réponses à ce sujet

[Booglarize]

virumor wrote...

Personally I'm all for a return to the dialogue system of Baldur's Gate 2. It doesn't make sense characters one leaves at camp all the time are willing to share their entire life story (not to mention their bed) with the main character. In an adventuring party, trust & friendship should come from braving dangers together.

I agree completely. Despite the fact that you couldn't really initiate conversations with your companions in BGII either, I never felt that I was missing out because when they did speak to me, it was usually something interesting and meaningful.

Unsurprisingly, the romance conversations were my favourite - if only because they were much longer and allowed you to explore characters in depth. That's the primary reason I was against dropping romance from this game - not because I want it to be a 'dating sim' or what have you, but because it would be losing a major avenue for character development. 

[rak72]

I think this new thing is a good suppliment, but we need the clickable conversations back. Plus, if they keep it this way with romances, I guess asking for that random kiss after a huge battle where I almost die will be out of the question.

[cooldevo]

Booglarize wrote...
That's the primary reason I was against dropping romance from this game - not because I want it to be a 'dating sim' or what have you, but because it would be losing a major avenue for character development. 

IMHO, romance isn't the only way to develop a character, it's just one avenue that can be taken.  I felt just as connected and close to some of the DAO characters (and even in ME2) that I couldn't romance, or chose not to romance.  Does that mean I missed some character development?  I certainly don't think so, having seeing all the various opportunites and outcomes through many playthroughs.

[Hubb-]

I was ok with how the conversations in Awakening turned out, I just wish there was more of them.

Modifié par Hubb-, 18 mars 2010 - 02:10 .

[Gamejudge]

speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with the way dialogue is done in awakenings and didn't have a problem with how it was done in origins. Bioware decides that the camp thing doesn't work as well as they want it too and want to try something different, sounds good to me. I rather like the new dialogue system.

I think what everyone really is upset over is the amount of dialogue. Me not knowing how long bioware actually had or what the resources were, am not going to complain, I thoroughly am enjoying everything I've found so far minus a few bothersome continuity issues *spoilers* (ex: crows saying they wouldn't take out another contract on me and then joining some nobles for an uprising, or am i wrong?) *end spoilers*.

The ONE thing I miss that would have made this expansion even better is interactivity with the environment. I miss being able to talk to the peasants on the street; being able to interact in a conversation with just about anyone was what really did it for me in origins. And side quests that don't end with the person in question just running away. Aside from that I'm pretty happy with awakening.

Modifié par Gamejudge, 18 mars 2010 - 02:12 .

[hanzzz]

I really disliked the way the dialogue was handled in Awakening. Not being able to initiate conversations to get to know the characters better wasn't a very good idea. I literally spent a good two hours before the final quest just zoning in and out of the keep at the end to see if I had missed any conversation options (and I know I did, because I never completed the sidequest to talk to Oghren about his wife and baby). Needless to say, this got old really, really quickly.



While I agree that being able to go through the entire conversation tree in one sitting like in Origins wasn't the best, I think that Awakening could have handled it a lot better. Unlock conversation options after each mission, but still allow the hero to initiate conversations.



As an example,I know next to nothing about Sigrun. I never used her at all in any way throughout Awakening, and I think I had 2 conversations with her. It really is a shame because I know that if I could have talked to her when I wanted, then I would have been motivated to use her more, but I just didn't care because the pace at which the conversations unlocked were too slow for me.



I think Bioware was going for a system along the lines of Mass Effect 2, but even in ME2 you could interact with the characters in your own time.

[Booglarize]

cooldevo wrote...

Booglarize wrote...
That's the primary reason I was against dropping romance from this game - not because I want it to be a 'dating sim' or what have you, but because it would be losing a major avenue for character development. 

IMHO, romance isn't the only way to develop a character, it's just one avenue that can be taken.  I felt just as connected and close to some of the DAO characters (and even in ME2) that I couldn't romance, or chose not to romance.  Does that mean I missed some character development?  I certainly don't think so, having seeing all the various opportunites and outcomes through many playthroughs.

Well, it may be just one way, but I'd venture that it's one extremely important way. In fact, several of BioWare's better characters - Bastila and Viconia come to mind - wouldn't have had nearly as much depth as they did without the romantic element to the interaction you could have with them. 

My point wasn't that one type of character development is better than some other type or that non-romantic development should be scrapped, or what have you - I was simply arguing that abandoning any of these avenues can only take away from a game. And if general consensus (among fans, critics and my personal opinion, for whatever that's worth) is any indication, it did take away quite a lot from this game.

[cooldevo]

hanzzz wrote...
I think Bioware was going for a system along the lines of Mass Effect 2, but even in ME2 you could interact with the characters in your own time.

It was a bit better in that aspect, yes but still not perfect.  There were several times when I tried to talk to a party member and they just asked me to come back.  For example, I would talk to Garrus and he would tell me he was in the middle of calibrations and to come back later.  4 or so missions later he finally started the next dialogue sqeuence.  So yeah, it was a bit more open in the fact I could talk to him, but only to a point.  It happened for quite a few characters off and on, seemed you needed to pass a certain trigger before you could talk anymore to them.

[Kohaku]

@cooldevo - I totally agree. That was one of the things I didn't like much about ME2. I thought I had run out of things to talk about only to come back some time later for new dialogue.

Modifié par Kerridan Kaiba, 18 mars 2010 - 03:27 .

[cooldevo]

Booglarize wrote...
Well, it may be just one way, but I'd venture that it's one extremely important way. In fact, several of BioWare's better characters - Bastila and Viconia come to mind - wouldn't have had nearly as much depth as they did without the romantic element to the interaction you could have with them. 

My point wasn't that one type of character development is better than some other type or that non-romantic development should be scrapped, or what have you - I was simply arguing that abandoning any of these avenues can only take away from a game. And if general consensus (among fans, critics and my personal opinion, for whatever that's worth) is any indication, it did take away quite a lot from this game.

I won't disagree with you totally on that point, it can be very powerful if used properly.  The big point is that it was known for a very long time that there wasn't going to be romances in Awakening.  I can't even remember how long ago I saw it on the DAO websites FAQ for Awakening.  That's partly why I find it odd that people are so surprised and didn't expect this.  When I saw it I prepared myself for that fact, albeit I was disappointed and would have liked to see something, even a token appearance from a DAO LI.

[Booglarize]

 I wasn't surprised by the lack of romances by itself - I was lurking around the forums back when it was announced. If anything, I was taken aback by the sheer size of the hole it left in the game when I actually played it, and how stunted character development felt overall. 

[Addai]

cooldevo wrote...

There was indeed some issues with Awakening, but I found the banter between Oghren, Anders, and Nathaniel absolutely hilarious for the most part. When Oghren and Anders were doing mock impressions of each other I couldn't even play the game I was laughing so hard.

Yes, it is great.  They're talking to each other.  Just not to me.

[Booglarize]

I think the location-based dialogue system would have worked really well if, as another poster suggested, it was complemented by a BGII-esque system where companions spontaneously initiate conversations with you every once in a while. While the location-based system was done about as well as I could reasonably expect, I don't think it quite serves as a substitute for the previous dialogue system on its own.

[Thor Rand Al]

Not to be rude to people who didn't like Awakening's but um this is an expansion. It's not a game unto itself like DAO. All this is is an extension, adds more to the game that takes place somewhere else, tells more of the story. I rather like Awakenings. I never thought that it was going to be a full blown game like DAO. It's a continuation of your story. This time your on your own, you've taken over Duncan's job, you're the one that has to do the recruiting. More responsibility has been added on to you.

As far as not having your significant other with you, do you guys take your better half with you when you go to work or on a business trip. Look at Awakenings as going on a business trip, more dangerous lol but it's still business. Yes I do find myself missing my companions, Alistair and dog mostly but Alistair I made King, he's got responsibilities.

I also hope that maybe they will make another expansion that adds everyone to the game, a reunion expansion lol. But that may not be, who knows if they are planning anything more for DA:O. I hope so cause I really really love this game. It's like an addiciton, I want more, more, more lol. They've drawn me in and I can't get enough.

As far as conversation's n not being able to interact with them like in DAO I don't mind not being able to. This way is more of a challenge, and that it is, (except for Ander's, I got +32 approval just doing his main quest) lol. I didn't come into the game hopping to start another relationship, my love interest was/is Alistair. I'm here to do a job and that's all. And once again I do hope that they may make a game that brings everyone together again.

So enough of my chatter. Hopefully I didn't offend anyone n if so welp sorry but I'm just voicing my thoughts

[Hezulkai]

Personally, I'm waffling.  I've only just started playing, thanks to the advice of the forums which helped me get past the opening bug I was having.  I'm really liking the few characters I've met.  Nathaniel is kinda soppy, Anders is hilarious.  There might be a little too much Ohgren for me.  I adored him in Origins, but he's best in small doses.  I've just met the fem dwarf, and I have the feeling I may like her.  I've liked the pragmatic, strong female dwarves they write.  Mhairi was a throw away Cauthrien clone, and that was a little telegraphed, but oh well.

So, on the one hand, I find the new companions engaging and interesting.

On the other, I find some of it a little too easy.  I got Nathaniel's and Anders' personal quests seemingly instantly.  Every personal gift triggered 13 - 16 points of approval.  Anders is now 100 (Love as well?).  Nathaniel is 70+ and I've only done about 3 hours of game play.  Ohgren, who ended my last game fairly high rep, is proving the toughest nut to crack and sits at a resolute 18.  For some reason, he likes me much less than before.

We can talk about farming approval with some conversations in Origins, and for sure that was true.  However, I would probably have liked more small time rep gains.  Gains through approval of action, along with triggered dialogue by location.  You feel a little more like you got to know these people over the course of the adventure.  Just while doing the initial clean up of the keep, Nathaniel went from "I hate you, I'm going to kill you." to "Okay, youi're not so bad, but you murdered my dad!" to "Well, sounds like my dad was a bad sort, but I still dislike to for murdering him" to "Oh hey, you're pretty awesome.  Do you like me?  Yes [ ]  No [ ]  Maybe [ ]"  All before I'd left Vigil's keep for the first time.  Just seemed rushed.  I'm not even talking about romance here, just a little longer for the 'getting to know you' phase.

[ejoslin]

Thor Rand Al -- my husband never leaves on a business trip without saying good bye, and without getting in touch while out of town.

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about, I thought, David Gaider saying the dialog system was broken. At least that's what it WAS about!

I think most people have been over about no romances in Awakenings since WAY before its release.  But in an interview fairly soon before the release, it was stated that the romances were acknowledged.  Well, the things that were in game (NOT slides) were taken out for some reason.

Edit: I wish people would quit taking concerns people are having about the new dialog system and saying "OMG! It's an expansion! Romances are dumb anyway!"  Or whatever they're saying. Not all complaints about the expansion are about the lack of romance.  And most concerns about dialog seem to have a different point as well.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2010 - 04:22 .

[Carmen_Willow]

ejoslin wrote...

I agree that if you don't take someone out, there shouldn't be the same amount of trust built, but I also think there should still be conversations available in a more relaxed setting as well. Maybe those "quiet" conversations should not have approval tied to them. I agree that DA:O's system isn't perfect. In fact, one funny thing is turning on a romance (Alistair especially) after he's at 100 Friendly.

But things like that only became apparent to me after playing through a few times.

When you look at people (I'm guilty of this) who spend much time discussing their favorite romance partner, who either trash or stand up for various companions (Wynne hate threads come to mind), fangirls (mainly Alistair ones -- sorry ladies, we Zev fans have to have a thicker skin) who stand up for "their man" no matter what and get offended when he's trashed. These conversations created something, I don't know, magical, really. Taking them out and putting in something more impersonal is not going to help the game.

There are games out there that have good stories, maybe even better combat, fun quests, etc. What sets DA:O above them is how you bond with your companions.

But i do agree that if you don't take your companions out, they shouldn't grow to love you anyway. But getting Sten to trust my character -- that felt like just as much of an accomplishment as anything else in the game. And the best way to do that is to take him everywhere, and then question him about his comments. Something like THAT would be great for all the companions.

Getting to know your companions AND the marvelous back stories.  By the time you started Ostagar, you were really sympathetic to your own characeter, you'd met some of the people who would appear later in the story, you had a motive for what you were doing....the best sort of theater....interactive, "I"m a part of it" theater. I haven't found that yet in any other game.  I'm very new at this and am trying other games for the first time.  I went to Mass Effect, because I had heard good things about it.....but it just gives you a paragraph on your back story and drops you into combat....I've played a couple hours in the game and still don't know my companions other than as chess pieces to move in battle.  By the time Ostagar is over, you're in tears because Duncan is dead.....And I like CAMP.  I like having a "safe" place to go to to relax and chat.  Camp was home in this game, and I hope they bring back it's equivalent next time round.  I liked the cocktail party conversation around the campfire.  I want more of it.  And I want more romance and characters I can love and admire or hate and snub.....

DA:O.  It isn't broken.  It just needs tweaking.  Please don't change what makes this game great.

[Thor Rand Al]

ejoslin wrote...

Thor Rand Al -- my husband never leaves on a business trip without saying good bye, and without getting in touch while out of town.

But that's not what this thread is about. It's about, I thought, David Gaider saying the dialog system was broken. At least that's what it WAS about!

I think most people have been over about no romances in Awakenings since WAY before its release.  But in an interview fairly soon before the release, it was stated that the romances were acknowledged.  Well, the things that were in game (NOT slides) were taken out for some reason.

Edit: I wish people would quit taking concerns people are having about the new dialog system and saying "OMG! It's an expansion! Romances are dumb anyway!"  Or whatever they're saying. Not all complaints about the expansion are about the lack of romance.  And most concerns about dialog seem to have a different point as well.

Lol just pretend that you got to kiss your significant other goodbye before you left, as far as letters well that would of been nice if it could of been added to the game.  Would of made going back to the Keep more enjoyable . 
But seriously I understand what your saying about your whole topic here.  And I didn't mean to be rude.  Basically I enjoy Awakenings. It adds more to my ultimate favorite game so far.  I just see a lot of people upset cause it's not like DAO.  I don't think it was meant to be.  And if the dialogue system is broken I hope that they do figure out. 

[ejoslin]

Thor, my edited-in rant was not directed at you! *grin* It was directed at all people who dismiss well thought out posts saying, "It's not a dating sim. Get a life." Even if the concerns have nothing to do with the romances.



And yes, I have definitely pretended they at least said goodbye! And that she got the letter from Zevran. Still... it would have been nice had the letter appeared in game. That would NOT have added to costs in any significant way.

[Lethias]

"Please don't change what makes this game great." Thats exactly what i was thinking, why change the dialogs and conversation system when it was a really nice and great part of the original game, the camp with your love and friends etc, that was fun, but yeah it's just an expansion, but still can't understand why change a thing that made the original game quite epic. I just hope they go back to the original conversation system in the next Expansion/DA 2 ...

[Carmen_Willow]

And I miss Bodhan.  I hope somehow he survived DA:O and was just hiding somewhere when the hammer went down. 

Modifié par Carmen_Willow, 18 mars 2010 - 04:55 .

[JamieCOTC]

I have mixed feelings about the new dialogue system. While I liked what little there was, I would hate for it to fully replace the old system. Some combination of the two would seem the best bet.

[Commander of the Grey]

I wonder if the people involved with the romance/conversations in Origins are face palming themselves into a coma for spoiling so many us. I thought the ability to talk to my companions and choose who I romanced is the most amazing idea and have become a huge fan where I probably would have been disinterested otherwise.



And it's not because I'm some sad, lonely girl who lives vicariously through games or what not. I play games for the same reason I read books; to become immersed in a world that isn't my own and Origins did that in an awesomely cool way.



I also miss the conversations and romance options a great deal in Awakenings but I wish everyone could look at it from two ways. One, like it has been pointed out, it was an expansion and if what I've read was true, wasn't done by the same team as Origins. And two, I am in awe of Mr. Gaider, the other writers and the voice actors for Origins. Has anyone stopped to think of the time it had to take to not only write all of that dialogue but to voice it, as well. I can't remember the number of pages but it was a god awful lot. (I'd love to hear some bloopers from all of it. XD) Seriously though, think of the do overs and mistakes, the editing, the syncing and other fancy stuff it took to get it just right. The money involved in paying those awesome actors for having the time and patience to complete the work. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was the actors themselves who requested it be cut down a bit. Even if they made less money that way. >.>



All of the disapproval over the lack of conversations/romance: I hope that the writers and actors can see it all as a testament to all the wonderful work they did to get everyone in such a tizzy. Simply amazing. I'll say it as many times as I have to. I know, personally, that I didn't like Sten much. He seemed like an a-hole but the more times I played it, and got to know him, I found myself actually sad when he disapproved of something I chose, even if I totally disagreed with his view. I WANTED him to approve of me, darn it! Lol. It's that kind of attatchment that I know I miss from Awakening.



Course I can only hope (almost to the point of actually, literally praying) that Alistair and the others return in all their epic glory someday. I would be happy with a medium. And Mr. Gaider seems to be looking for that. Only time will tell what happens. I'm not completely disappointed in Awakening, aside from wishing for a bit more interaction with the party members. I kept talking to them anyway while walking around, to try and get a conversation fix. Romance didn't really bother me since I became so attatched to Alistair's character that I wouldn't have cheated on his Majesty anyway. lol Now, flirting with Anders with a new warden, however...XD Anyway, I understand why everyone is so upset. If there were flaws with the conversations in Origins, they certainly weren't many. I miss it but there is also a story to be told and what an amazing one it is. I don't think the writers (or whoever is really in charge of the decision) will let us down with DA 2.

[galesong1234]

Thanks for all the good/bad/indifferent comments. Actually, this has become a touchy subject it seems.



I just want the PERSON WHO IS INCHARGE to know that the previous system WASNT' BROKEN!!!



It may have had a few bugs, but those were fixed by some great mods.

[RPGmom28]

I loved DA:O's party interaction. It irks me that something that worked so well and addicted me so thoroughly has been changed for absolutely no good reason. Too bad.