115 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Darmok]

I have a Master's Degree, but you're right. Your opinion IS better than those who liked the game. Thank you for enlightening us.

[exxxed]

It feels like the technology took a step backwards in ME 2, clips, manual survey (i guess Cerberus scientists are to blame for being dip****s), this one is not related to gameplay but still, A HELL LOT OF FRICKEN LOADING (doesn't take long on the PC but it brakes the stinking immersion), dunno what the heck Bio was thinking when they practically destroyed the immersion from their game, i guess xbox is to blame for that one



Cheers!

[Cowboy_christo]

Commander Darmok wrote...

I have a Master's Degree, but you're right. Your opinion IS better than those who liked the game. Thank you for enlightening us.

What does having a degree has to do with anything? Trying to show off? The simple fact that you brought this up in an internet argument make you an idiot and w/e you say from this point is now moot.


As for the OP, some things changed and some people liked it other didnt. Just deal with it.

If you are so pissed off about the ammo may i suggest modding your game to get infinite ammo? This way it should look more like me1.

[ThePatriot101]

Yawn, oh great, one of these threads.  Try not to spit on me with your ranting.

exxxed wrote...

It feels like the technology took a step backwards in ME 2, clips, manual survey (i guess Cerberus scientists are to blame for being dip****s), this one is not related to gameplay but still, A HELL LOT OF FRICKEN LOADING (doesn't take long on the PC but it brakes the stinking immersion), dunno what the heck Bio was thinking when they practically destroyed the immersion from their game, i guess xbox is to blame for that one

Cheers!

Okay, just to point out a few things:
Clips: not gonna argue about that because it's already been argued enough
Manual Survey: I'm guessing you're referring to the resource gathering which I think is more advanced than having to physically go down in a Mako just to survey resources.
Loading Times: intended so that there's no loading interrupts in the action.

[exxxed]

Manual Survey: I'm guessing you're referring to the resource gathering which I think is more advanced than having to physically go down in a Mako just to survey resources.

You do remember the [Survey] option under some of the unexplorable planets and asteroids, right? Exactly like the stinking scan only it took you less than a second to do it...

Scanning doesn't replace the Mako by the way, scanning replaces the easy to do Survey option with this bland mind numbing mini-game.

Cheers!

[rickf7666]

 From the interviews that I've seen, they made changes based on what players complained about from ME1.  People didn't like the inventory system in ME1.  It was cumbersome and there were no filters or the ability to sort.  So instead of fixing the inventory display the just cut it out.
People didn't like the weapons over heating, so they went to a clip system.  There are a few problems with this new system.  First is that after every battle I have to scour the battle field looking for clips.  This slows things down.  Two, each weapon has it's own stack of heat clips, so I have to switch weapons when I run out.  Which doesn't make any sense.  The clips should be shared between all weapons.  So it shouldn't show you the total amount of shots you have with any particular weapon but the total number of heat clips you have and how many shots you get per heat clip.  Then when it comes to upgrades you can increase the efficiency of the weapon to give you more shots per clip and have an upgrade where you can carry more heat clips.  Oh and it would have been nice if when Shepard was revived he had to be told that weapons now had a clip system.  That this was some sort of tech upgrade that everyone had adopted during the last two years when he was dead.  Come on guys the story is suppose to be the main focus, so if you change some game play aspect of the game at least give us some dialog to explain it.

The Mako was another aspect of the game that got a lot of grief.  Personally I liked the Mako.  Sure the physics needed to be tweaked and the jump jets barely got your tires off the ground, but I found it fun once I got the hang of it.  I am looking forward to the DLC that has then new vehicle.  A hover craft?  Well we'll see.  I do hope that they have incorporated an upgrade system for the vehicle.

The last thing I'm going to mention is the abilities.  First they put them all on the same cool down timer.  Not only does it not make any sense to have tech and biotics on the same timer but in ME1 having separate timers gave you a reason to use all of your abilities not just the most powerful one.  And ammo type as an ability??????  In what way does this have any logic.  Please, I'm asking someone to explain this one to me.  And lastly, I much preferred the linear upgrades for abilities from ME1 to the 1 2 3 4 system of ME2.  After the first few upgrades you ended up having to hold onto your upgrade points for several levels to get 3 and 4.  Not to mention there is what like a third of the number of abilities.

Mass Effect 1 played like a RPG with shooter elements and Mass Effect 2 plays like a shooter with RPG elements.  I hope that Mass Effect 3 has a better balance.

After everything I've just written I just want to say that I love Mass Effect 1 & 2.  It's the closest I've ever seen to controlling the events of a really good Science Fiction movie.  Because of this the flaws stand out like lumps of coal in a bed of diamonds.  So please do not scrap something just because you get complaints, improve it so that you don't get complaints.

[ModerateOsprey]

rickf7666 wrote...

 From the interviews that I've seen, they made changes based on what players complained about from ME1.  People didn't like the inventory system in ME1.  It was cumbersome and there were no filters or the ability to sort.  So instead of fixing the inventory display the just cut it out.
People didn't like the weapons over heating, so they went to a clip system.  There are a few problems with this new system.  First is that after every battle I have to scour the battle field looking for clips.  This slows things down.  Two, each weapon has it's own stack of heat clips, so I have to switch weapons when I run out.  Which doesn't make any sense.  The clips should be shared between all weapons.  So it shouldn't show you the total amount of shots you have with any particular weapon but the total number of heat clips you have and how many shots you get per heat clip.  Then when it comes to upgrades you can increase the efficiency of the weapon to give you more shots per clip and have an upgrade where you can carry more heat clips.  Oh and it would have been nice if when Shepard was revived he had to be told that weapons now had a clip system.  That this was some sort of tech upgrade that everyone had adopted during the last two years when he was dead.  Come on guys the story is suppose to be the main focus, so if you change some game play aspect of the game at least give us some dialog to explain it.

The Mako was another aspect of the game that got a lot of grief.  Personally I liked the Mako.  Sure the physics needed to be tweaked and the jump jets barely got your tires off the ground, but I found it fun once I got the hang of it.  I am looking forward to the DLC that has then new vehicle.  A hover craft?  Well we'll see.  I do hope that they have incorporated an upgrade system for the vehicle.

The last thing I'm going to mention is the abilities.  First they put them all on the same cool down timer.  Not only does it not make any sense to have tech and biotics on the same timer but in ME1 having separate timers gave you a reason to use all of your abilities not just the most powerful one.  And ammo type as an ability??????  In what way does this have any logic.  Please, I'm asking someone to explain this one to me.  And lastly, I much preferred the linear upgrades for abilities from ME1 to the 1 2 3 4 system of ME2.  After the first few upgrades you ended up having to hold onto your upgrade points for several levels to get 3 and 4.  Not to mention there is what like a third of the number of abilities.

Mass Effect 1 played like a RPG with shooter elements and Mass Effect 2 plays like a shooter with RPG elements.  I hope that Mass Effect 3 has a better balance.

After everything I've just written I just want to say that I love Mass Effect 1 & 2.  It's the closest I've ever seen to controlling the events of a really good Science Fiction movie.  Because of this the flaws stand out like lumps of coal in a bed of diamonds.  So please do not scrap something just because you get complaints, improve it so that you don't get complaints.

I pretty much agree with everything you have said here. I another post I likened both games to a fruit salad of scif themes and homages - something like that.
I loved both games and I know I will get a replay value out of them. Money well spent out of my entertainment budget.
I also mentioned that I believe there is a lot of experimentation going on, but making sure they have a high selling product at the same time. It would not surprise me in the slightest if there is another project we know jack about going on that will really blow us away in 5+ years time.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I'm not sure, but I feel like if ME2 was in place of ME1 and ME1 was in place of ME2, this thread would have been entitled, "ME2 > ME1: No brainer here".

[Nolenthar]

First, I would strongly suggest to have a look on this link (posted on another thread) : http://prezi.com/6xe...y-inventory-go/

It explains the reason of the changes.



This topic clearly splits people together and I'm one of the person who felt disappointed during my first minutes playing ME2. I finally forgot it but I still regret some choices.



First of all, while you're reading this document, you find out that Bioware are really self-confident. Everything they did was to make the game more intense, sacrificing universe and class richness if they had to. To make it easier to handle for a XBOX 360 pad, they removed powers and possibilities. This game has not been created to be richer than the original, but just to be better rated. For this they have succeed.



We can't deny the combat is more interesting and demanding. We can't deny the character interaction, the dialogs are equal or superior to the first game. IMO, they did a great game, but there is clearly few things to improve.



Linearity is an issue to improve on ME3. All the main quests are quite the same and I do agree with you on this point. Speak, enter a big corridor, kill, follow the corridor, kill, continue your way through this corridor, kill. End of mission (with this damn screen !).

The problem is also mainly that ME series has been colonized by action players, only interested by action games. ME1 could have let them behind, but ME2 didn't and I do not expect big changes on ME3.



Games companies do not create games for the beauty of the game, they create games for money. ME2 gives them more money than ME1. We would be fool to think that ME3 will be at middle way between ME1 and ME2.

[Daveastation]

Why would anyone waste their time complaining about a game they've already completed? Just move on to the next thing you won't like.

[ModerateOsprey]

Nolenthar wrote...

First, I would strongly suggest to have a look on this link (posted on another thread) : http://prezi.com/6xe...y-inventory-go/
It explains the reason of the changes.

This topic clearly splits people together and I'm one of the person who felt disappointed during my first minutes playing ME2. I finally forgot it but I still regret some choices.

First of all, while you're reading this document, you find out that Bioware are really self-confident. Everything they did was to make the game more intense, sacrificing universe and class richness if they had to. To make it easier to handle for a XBOX 360 pad, they removed powers and possibilities. This game has not been created to be richer than the original, but just to be better rated. For this they have succeed.

We can't deny the combat is more interesting and demanding. We can't deny the character interaction, the dialogs are equal or superior to the first game. IMO, they did a great game, but there is clearly few things to improve.

Linearity is an issue to improve on ME3. All the main quests are quite the same and I do agree with you on this point. Speak, enter a big corridor, kill, follow the corridor, kill, continue your way through this corridor, kill. End of mission (with this damn screen !).
The problem is also mainly that ME series has been colonized by action players, only interested by action games. ME1 could have let them behind, but ME2 didn't and I do not expect big changes on ME3.

Games companies do not create games for the beauty of the game, they create games for money. ME2 gives them more money than ME1. We would be fool to think that ME3 will be at middle way between ME1 and ME2.

I agree with much of what you have said here except about domination of action players desires and not creating for the beauty. In the case of the latter, the actual people creating this game are probably some of the most talented people in the world and I am pretty sure they want a beautiful game and the very large amounts of money required for them to do just that.

On the former, gamers are not simply divided into two - many gamers enjoy a whole raft of different game typea nd ME has always been peddled as a hybrid RPG/Shooter. This time we got better shooter and arguably the same amount of conversation (I haven't measured, so correct me if I am wrong there). The game was light on the grinding (except for the scanning, which should never have been included).

Also Bioware operate in a competitive environment. There will be other game devs/publishers out there looking at their games and these forums thinking: if Bioware %^&& this up, then we are having them fans and their revenue. to boot.

[Dethateer]

Cowboy_christo wrote...

Commander Darmok wrote...

I have a Master's Degree, but you're right. Your opinion IS better than those who liked the game. Thank you for enlightening us.

What does having a degree has to do with anything? Trying to show off? The simple fact that you brought this up in an internet argument make you an idiot and w/e you say from this point is now moot.

Way to miss his point, cowboy. As for the OP, cry some moar. I don't suppose you remember the Prologue, Eden Prime, and the first Citadel mission, in 1, don't you? Because they're, y'know, exactly what you claim are linear missions in 2. As for "shoot, shoot, talk", just HOW THE F**K IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM ME1?

[spacehamsterZH]

Splortched wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

The clips are explained, they aren't ammo. Not knowing this doesn't exactly make you look like you know what you're talking about, y'know. I'm not a big fan of the new clip system either, but it's not like it's left totally unexplained.

Yeah, I know. I just played and replayed the first game and really enjoyed it, so I'm going off first impressions here based on the first game.

Well, they changed a bunch of stuff, but it looks just close enough to ME1 with similar interfaces and adapted terminology that it kind of throws you if you go into it with a lot of ME1 experience. I've only beaten the first one once, but I started ME2 literally on the same day I beat ME1 - it was a rough ride the first two hours. But you really need to give it a bit more of a chance than you obviously have. A lot of stuff that seems horribly oversimplified (where the %$&$ is my bioamp and how am I supposed to know my biotic stats if I don't know what bioamp I'm using, right?) at first, but if you play with it for a while you realize that it actually works very well and it's not as limiting as you first thought.

[BatarianBob]

Splortched wrote...

The fact that ME2 doesn't even follow the plot and key story elements from the original is unexcusable. Why did we go from am Element Zero gun system (Unlimited ammo due to the way the guns actually worked using Element Zero as a mass effect cannon) to a clip system (What, we just forgot that the guns operate using science vs. old bullet technology?). It doesn't feel like Mass Effect 2, it's Gears of War painted in Mass Effect clothing.

Confusing gameplay mechanics with plot and story elements is a good way to make sure your opinion isn't taken seriously.

[Your Synthetic Superior]

So this is the part where I'm supposed to flame you, right? *Yawn* Try not to be so obvious next time. It cheapens it.

[Valmy]

Splortched wrote...

So we're gonna come out with a sequel, and change everything that people liked in the first game because... Well, I don't see any reason behind it. I'm disappointed so far Bioware. The way I saw Mass Effect going was towards a Kotor style system of play, not "Hmm, cutscene here, kill these guys, cutscene, really fast and useless dialog with old character, kill more people, cutscene, kill people, cutscene"... that's just horrible. If I want to do that I'll play Halo.

Huh?  I was with you until this.

Um between missions in both games you do the same thing, you wander around and talk to people and buy gear and listen to news reports and so forth.

In no way does it vary at all from what went on KOTOR and ME1 between the fighting sequences.  What are you talking about?  Have you actually played ME2?

Modifié par Valmy, 18 mars 2010 - 06:52 .

[Goth Skunk]

Wrong.



ME2>ME1

[Weskerr]

An RPG isn't linear...

I would have agreed with you before I got Final Fantasy 13. I haven't beaten it yet, but FF13 is an example of an outstanding RPG that is linear.

[nelly21]

Well, they changed a bunch of stuff, but it looks just close enough to ME1 with similar interfaces and adapted terminology that it kind of throws you if you go into it with a lot of ME1 experience. I've only beaten the first one once, but I started ME2 literally on the same day I beat ME1 - it was a rough ride the first two hours. But you really need to give it a bit more of a chance than you obviously have. A lot of stuff that seems horribly oversimplified (where the %$&$ is my bioamp and how am I supposed to know my biotic stats if I don't know what bioamp I'm using, right?) at first, but if you play with it for a while you realize that it actually works very well and it's not as limiting as you first thought.

No, they can't do that. You see, your advice is based on using logic and fact. The rpg purists lack both.

[DarthCaine]

ME2 < ME1: No brainer here

Not according to most people:

http://social.biowar...596/polls/1670/

[Mimaiselphenai]

One thing ME1 has over 2 is the weapon and armor mods. Made for nice customization for replays. Even though having a squad member using high explosive ammo X on their assault rifle was a bit lolsy. I don't like how they seemed to "streamline" ME2, but over all it's not a bad sequel. At least Tali's still cute.

Oh, one thing that drives me INSANE about ME2 is that sprint and cover are on the same damn key binding. Really, really stupid. Playing on insanity and having to sprint away only to get stuck on a box because I slide into it for cover is bad. Hope they fix that in 3.

[sinosleep]

From the very first sentence this post is wrong. Unlike movies, games actually have a VERY high success rate when it comes to sequels.

[DarthCaine]

sinosleep wrote...

Unlike movies, games actually have a VERY high success rate when it comes to sequels.

Warrior Within? Deux Ex 2? KOTOR 2? Devil May Cry 2? Driver 3?

[Splortched]

I take back everything I said about this game with the exception of the keybindings. Keybindings suck, the game is amazing.

[Splortched]

nelly21 wrote...

Well, they changed a bunch of stuff, but it looks just close enough to ME1 with similar interfaces and adapted terminology that it kind of throws you if you go into it with a lot of ME1 experience. I've only beaten the first one once, but I started ME2 literally on the same day I beat ME1 - it was a rough ride the first two hours. But you really need to give it a bit more of a chance than you obviously have. A lot of stuff that seems horribly oversimplified (where the %$&$ is my bioamp and how am I supposed to know my biotic stats if I don't know what bioamp I'm using, right?) at first, but if you play with it for a while you realize that it actually works very well and it's not as limiting as you first thought.

No, they can't do that. You see, your advice is based on using logic and fact. The rpg purists lack both.

HA! Very true.