20 réponses à ce sujet

[JRidden]

the only good thing for me is to lengthen my life as i got tainted as my friend tamlen touched that damn mirror. Since i was cheated by Duncan so i drink the blood and become the grey warden
However, good guys who have zeal and faith die when joining(Daveth, and Mhairi), while the bad guys who are not wanting to join(or joining cos to evade certain death) survived(lohgain, howe and anders)
i really would like to see orghen dies during the ritual instead of mhairi....as he just not treat it serious(spit on the holy grail?) and killed the one who whole heartly wanna join as paying her life(shortening) and fighting the bad.

Yes, being a warden COMMANDER is good as it can get what we like and have soldier to fight for us (still we have to follow their orders, who the hell is in-charge really?) but being a Grey Warden is not...
No special ability also, detecting darkspawn? it's the darkspawn detecting you as they are everywhere... you don't have to find them, it's they find you

Modifié par JRidden, 18 mars 2010 - 06:43 .

[SirJoeofthePub]

I have to agree, the whole one out of three mortality rate of becoming a grey warden is kind of ridiculous. The whole someone or two out of a hand full of recruits HAS to die is silly as it actually does not fit into the Grey Warden lore.



If you think about it, with such a high chance of death by just being recruited, Grey Wardens would NOT be revered as great honorable knights, they would be about as popular as a death lottery, caus that's what they would be, lol.



Anytime a Grey Warden would walk into civilization, people would hide and cower in fear that they would get recruited into a death sentence, lol.

[Schizofriendlia]

Isn't it a part of the lore that the joining is a tightly guarded secret? The only people who are meant to know about it are those who have gone through it. Hence the knight guy being killed by Duncan in Origins.

[ExperimentBM]

The joining would be even better if they added a couple characters that when recruited would die. So far only Mhairi died from the joinings and it'd be more realistic and unexpected.

Maybe in the next Dragon Age game, they'll have Warden skills that'll sense where darkspawn are with a few quests of 'smart' darkspawn trying to evade you. Other than that, I think the whole 'sense darkspawn' thing is just for the map and how when you get close enough they'll show.

[SirJoeofthePub]

You would think it would be a hard secret to keep if 1/3rd or more of the people you recruit just die. Unless the Wardens only recruit the city homeless and nomads people would start to ask questions eventually.



They wouldn't necessarily know they drank darkspawn blood, or their super secret darkspawn sensing superpowers, lol, but they would suspect something I’m sure =P

[nranola]

It was a little odd that only one person didn't survive the Joining in Awakening. I was half-expecting the mortality rate to be determined randomly in the game, like there's an equal chance of everyone dying after going through the ritual. That would've made it interesting, I think. Would at least hold true to what the Joining entails.

[Janni-in-VA]

I believe that people are aware that the Joining is dangerous. Duncan will tell you as much at Ostagar. I'm with y'all in that I just can't see that part of it being kept a secret for any length of time. It's just that the actual ritual and what it entails is secret.

[Loerwyn]

nranola wrote...

It was a little odd that only one person didn't survive the Joining in Awakening. I was half-expecting the mortality rate to be determined randomly in the game, like there's an equal chance of everyone dying after going through the ritual. That would've made it interesting, I think. Would at least hold true to what the Joining entails.

Yes, but it does leave you with (as far as I can tell) the chance of having no companions unless you never let them take the Joining.

[nranola]

Yeah, that's true. xD But it would be exciting, no? To see who lives and who dies? Having a different set of party members in each playthrough? Would make for some variety. But I reckon it would ****** a lot of people off if they went with that.

Modifié par nranola, 19 mars 2010 - 04:44 .

[Dark Secret]

It does make sense, just think about it. 4 out of 5 recruits die in a closely guarded ritual. Someone asks:

"What happened to all your recruits? Why is he the only one to survive?"

"Unfortunately, they died in training/were killed by Darkspawn..."

Whats to contradict that? The Grey Wardens are a relatively secretive organisation, very few have insight into the true goings on of their order.



Also, I've only ever twice run into Darkspawn before I sensed them/saw them (excluding cut scenes), thats pretty useful imo... Quit complaining about that element of the game, it would be boring if you were never challenged by an ambush or were able to prepare for every single fight...



Finally, isn't the Joining a mix of luck and strength of will? In a generalised sense, 'nasty' people tend to have a fiercer will power than 'nice' people as they are less willing to concede, so it does make partial sense that the good ones don't tend to survive. And even so, how many Joinings does the player actually witness? Whats to say there aren't many Joinings where all/most recruits survive?

(Note: I haven't played Awakening so I don't know the details of what happens, so forgive me on the last part if I've said something completely wrong xD )

[JosieJ]

SirJoeofthePub wrote...

I have to agree, the whole one out of three mortality rate of becoming a grey warden is kind of ridiculous. The whole someone or two out of a hand full of recruits HAS to die is silly as it actually does not fit into the Grey Warden lore.

Where do you get the 1/3 mortality rate?  We don't have nearly as big a sample size as we need to get a meaningful average.

If you think about it, with such a high chance of death by just being recruited, Grey Wardens would NOT be revered as great honorable knights, they would be about as popular as a death lottery, caus that's what they would be, lol.

Why do you think they don't tell the initiates before they take their Joining?  All anybody knows is that it's dangerous.  "Danger" does not equal "automatic death sentence," so there are quite a few people willing to undertake it regardless of the danger.

[Loerwyn]

nranola wrote...

Yeah, that's true. xD But it would be exciting, no? To see who lives and who dies? Having a different set of party members in each playthrough? Would make for some variety. But I reckon it would ****** a lot of people off if they went with that.

The "randomness" was something I was wondering myself last night. Mhairi was made out to be a fully fledged party member blahblahblah but she's out very quickly, so I wondered if it was random. Every time I put someone through it (even now) I wonder if they go through or not. When Sigrun survived I actually cheered

[Ildaron]

Dark Secret wrote...

Finally, isn't the Joining a mix of luck and strength of will? In a generalised sense, 'nasty' people tend to have a fiercer will power than 'nice' people as they are less willing to concede, so it does make partial sense that the good ones don't tend to survive. And even so, how many Joinings does the player actually witness? Whats to say there aren't many Joinings where all/most recruits survive?
(Note: I haven't played Awakening so I don't know the details of what happens, so forgive me on the last part if I've said something completely wrong xD )

Doing the right thing for no other reason then it is the right thing takes more will then doing something just because you want it. Nasty people as you put it tend to have a lack of will. Doing something because it will make you happy, or you desire it, or it will make you feel good to give it to someone, or simply just because you want to doesn't take a strong will that is the easy path. Try being polite when someone is rude to you, or kind when someone has just hit you, or even doing the right thing when it will cost you a great deal. That takes a great deal of will.

[ExperimentBM]

[quote]nranola wrote...

Yeah, that's true. xD But it would be exciting, no? To see who lives and who dies? Having a different set of party members in each playthrough? Would make for some variety. But I reckon it would ****** a lot of people off if they went with that.[/quote]

The "randomness" was something I was wondering myself last night. Mhairi was made out to be a fully fledged party member blahblahblah but she's out very quickly, so I wondered if it was random. Every time I put someone through it (even now) I wonder if they go through or not. When Sigrun survived I actually cheered

[/quote]

The joining in Awakening is not random, everyone will survive except Mhairi.  I wouldn't want the joining to be on random either, but I think it'd be a good idea to add in "generic" characters like Mhairi to die in joining so the player might have to guess which party members will be there or not.

[nranola]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...



The "randomness" was something I was wondering myself last night. Mhairi was made out to be a fully fledged party member blahblahblah but she's out very quickly, so I wondered if it was random. Every time I put someone through it (even now) I wonder if they go through or not. When Sigrun survived I actually cheered {smilie}

Haha same here! xD Mhairi's death was what made me think the mortality rate was randomized as well. My heart pounded every time a potential party member went through the Joining. Adds to the excitement, I suppose.

[LadyShariaa]

Wardens seem to survive the joining through strength of character and will. For better or worse.

Anders: Has survived and escaped the tower 7 times! If thats not will then I dont know what is.
Oghren: Survived a blight and for better or worse is a strong character in spite of his jokes and what not.
Sigrun: She is the last of her kind!
Velanna: She has an extremly strong personality even if its ascued by her dalish upbringing.

I think the way Mhairi acted was her automatic death sentance. She seems to be feeling 'entitled' like the best of the best and everyone else but the commander was below her.

That doesn't sound like any of the wardens I have ever met...

Modifié par LadyShariaa, 19 mars 2010 - 06:03 .

[nranola]

Now that you mentioned it, Mhairi reminds me a lot of Daveth; he seemed quite eager to go through with the Joining as well. But I guess this proves that eagerness doesn't always equate to survival.

[starfleetau]

Nothing in the lore says 1 in 3 die.. the Original game only has 3 people taking the joining, out of those 3.. you don't die and 1 of those is killed not from the blood but by Duncan from memory when he tries to run away.



The other was if I am not wrong and as mentioned 'I am worthy I deserve this etc etc etc'.. part of it I think is the whole thing of being strong enough to see inside yourself that you are a flawed person.. to know that you are not perfect and to be able to live with those flaws.. To face YOUR TAINT through strength of will and survive it... In many respects this is what is happening in the 'origins' part of the story lines.. as a mage you must face the whole thing about Blood Magic.. and of course your test into the fade itself.. on Nobel your facing the whole trial of loosing your family, loosing everything you are and having to face that.. which kinda gives your character a kick in the ass..



While the lore isn't exactly open to everything (least not last time i checked) we know that the Tainted Blood eventually drives even the best of wardens to maddness.. and then they walk the low roads.. (reminds me a bit of the whole 'judges' stuff in Judge Dredd for when a Judge 'retires' in that respect).. We also know that the dogs (Ostigar) that attack the Dark Spawn get sick but before they got sick they got more viscious etc.. Now if you look at it all, that does point to the fact that you some how manage to overcome the taint... but not forever, and lets face it some people won't be able to do that..



Every character who has.. has been able to face life in many respects as understanding there is more to life then them.. Even Logan if you let him take the ritual.. faces the fact that he was WRONG, he goes into the ritual knowing that either way he is a dead man, because of the choices he made, but also as a strong willed man whom lets face it doesn't exactly want to DIE.

[Kosh_Naranek]

It's not a 1/3 death rate...In Awakening, only one person dies out of, what, eight, and we have no idea if Jory would have survived or not. It's *random*..We don't know how large Alistair's group was, but only one person died in that, too. People die training for lots of high-risk jobs. Besides, the game makes it pretty clear that the whole thing is a tightly-guarded secret.

[Dark Secret]

Ildaron wrote...

Dark Secret wrote...

Finally, isn't the Joining a mix of luck and strength of will? In a generalised sense, 'nasty' people tend to have a fiercer will power than 'nice' people as they are less willing to concede, so it does make partial sense that the good ones don't tend to survive. And even so, how many Joinings does the player actually witness? Whats to say there aren't many Joinings where all/most recruits survive?
(Note: I haven't played Awakening so I don't know the details of what happens, so forgive me on the last part if I've said something completely wrong xD )

Doing the right thing for no other reason then it is the right thing takes more will then doing something just because you want it. Nasty people as you put it tend to have a lack of will. Doing something because it will make you happy, or you desire it, or it will make you feel good to give it to someone, or simply just because you want to doesn't take a strong will that is the easy path. Try being polite when someone is rude to you, or kind when someone has just hit you, or even doing the right thing when it will cost you a great deal. That takes a great deal of will.

Try mercilessly slaughtering puppies.
But really, I understand your point, I'm just offering up that it could be used as an argument as to why the 'nasties' get-the-majority-win. Loghain didn't take an easy way out imo...

[SRWill64]

To program each and every character into each and every place takes a lot of memory for someone randomly dropping dead in the beginning? That's a lot of work for the programmers for no true gaming benefit. And the reason the good die is to draw the emotion out of the player, because no one I know of cries or feels bad when a bad person dies (except mothers).