105 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Kileyan wrote...

Let me take a spin at this. No ones health bars matter. You throw powrs at them in  a spam as they cool down fashion. By the time you can throw, pull, or float them they are dead. No powers really do what they should, they just wear down a shield, biotic shield or armor, then the dude it dead seconds later.

All the powers do nothing but wear down a defense, then the guy dies because he only have 7 hit points. You aren't a biotic, you are a shield depleter, You aren't a tech expert, you are a armor melter, then the guy dies.

What?? You wanted to hack that big ass mech? YOu can for the 2 seconds he lives, because you can't hack him while he has more that 7 hps of life.

The combat in this game is silly, even if on hard levels. Nothing can be affected by engineer or biotic attacks until its defenses are stripped and its one sliver of life away from dying.

Perhaps BioWare realized that walking into a room and using Biotics to CC literally every NPC was kind of dumb?  CC in single-player games is silly.  I agree that Cryo Blast and AI Hacking are damned near worthless in this game, but I can give you a use for every single other ability. 

Would you prefer if your abilities didn't do damage to barrier/shield/armor and every one of the mobs with all of those defenses were just flat out immune?  Beating tough and boss-level enemies with a single ability isn't fun, it's retarded, and any developer should go out of their way to avoid it. 

Ex:  Final boss of FFX is susceptible to the zombie effect.  Hit him with zombie, then use a Life spell or pheonix down on him for auto win.  This does not make good gameplay.

[CmdrFenix83]

HK74 wrote...

XtremegamerHK47 wrote...

BTW, anybody who thinks ME2 was lackluster or mediocre, STFU. There was nowhere in this game where I said "This is average" or "This just sucks". I was in awe and suspense all the way through. It was memorable and amazing. A fantastic sequel. Sure, the story may seem weak compared to ME1, but the characters matter in this one. This is character driven experiance, and it was done fantasticly.

Milage may vary.
I found ME2 to be a pretty mediocre experience, especially compared to other BioWare games. After only 1.5 playthroughs I lost interest and decided to catch up with DA:O and BG2 - both games have been immeasurably more compelling gaming experiences for me. Was shocked to find myself enjoying a ten year old game more than the most recent BW offering but there it is.

Indeed.  YMMV.  I played the first game 16 times now in the 2 and a quarter years its' been out, but I've cleared ME2 10 times already, and it hasn't even been two months yet.  While DA:O got 1 playthrough from me on a rental, and I have no interest in playing it again.

Some people prefer 'traditional' RPG games, but others, like myself, are glad to see tired systems(like grinding) removed. Not everyone wants to play what is essentially the same game mechanics from game to game.  ME and ME2 were both great steps in a different RPG experience.

[Kileyan]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

Let me take a spin at this. No ones health bars matter. You throw powrs at them in  a spam as they cool down fashion. By the time you can throw, pull, or float them they are dead. No powers really do what they should, they just wear down a shield, biotic shield or armor, then the dude it dead seconds later.

All the powers do nothing but wear down a defense, then the guy dies because he only have 7 hit points. You aren't a biotic, you are a shield depleter, You aren't a tech expert, you are a armor melter, then the guy dies.

What?? You wanted to hack that big ass mech? YOu can for the 2 seconds he lives, because you can't hack him while he has more that 7 hps of life.

The combat in this game is silly, even if on hard levels. Nothing can be affected by engineer or biotic attacks until its defenses are stripped and its one sliver of life away from dying.

Perhaps BioWare realized that walking into a room and using Biotics to CC literally every NPC was kind of dumb?  CC in single-player games is silly.  I agree that Cryo Blast and AI Hacking are damned near worthless in this game, but I can give you a use for every single other ability. 

Would you prefer if your abilities didn't do damage to barrier/shield/armor and every one of the mobs with all of those defenses were just flat out immune?  Beating tough and boss-level enemies with a single ability isn't fun, it's retarded, and any developer should go out of their way to avoid it. 

Ex:  Final boss of FFX is susceptible to the zombie effect.  Hit him with zombie, then use a Life spell or pheonix down on him for auto win.  This does not make good gameplay.

Are you really arguing with me as if the answer is impossible to figure out?

25% less shield, 25 % less armor, 75% more life, so that the powers really matter. Those are made up numbers but you know what I mean. Let the power work slightly quicker on a foe, and once is works, let the foe have enought life left that it was acutally worth using the power, rather than just shooting the darn thing.

The powers were stupid and useless, and as I said, more often that not they weren't the powers as named, they were just shield and armor depleting powers.

[Ecael]

Kileyan wrote...

Let me take a spin at this. No ones health bars matter. You throw powrs at them in  a spam as they cool down fashion. By the time you can throw, pull, or float them they are dead. No powers really do what they should, they just wear down a shield, biotic shield or armor, then the dude it dead seconds later.

All the powers do nothing but wear down a defense, then the guy dies because he only have 7 hit points. You aren't a biotic, you are a shield depleter, You aren't a tech expert, you are a armor melter, then the guy dies.

What?? You wanted to hack that big ass mech? YOu can for the 2 seconds he lives, because you can't hack him while he has more that 7 hps of life.

The combat in this game is silly, even if on hard levels. Nothing can be affected by engineer or biotic attacks until its defenses are stripped and its one sliver of life away from dying.

Wrong spin.

There's a reason I didn't mention actual combat in that Mass Effect 1 list - the ground combat in both games is mediocre at best (and the Mako is just a timesink). Without BioWare's story, characters, dialogue and progression, Mass Effect 2 really does start to become something similar to Gears of War. However, Mass Effect 1 also becomes a third-person Diablo-style shooter with tedious inventory and skill-spam. It wouldn't even make enough money to justify a sequel or extra content.

No health bars matter in Mass Effect 1 because keeping up with Energized Plating in your inventory and having abilities like Immunity on you/your squadmates essentially make you invincible for long periods of time. I was running up to Thresher Maws and firing at them on Insanity (point-blank) with my Soldier because it was faster and I was more durable than the Mako itself. I stood in the room filled with Rachni in the Noveria hot labs until the timer expired - it was the purge that killed me instead.

The whole point in having a global cooldown is to force you to use your weapons and squadmates to wear down defenses instead of solely relying your own tech or biotics. Some of the abilities in Mass Effect 1 were extremely weak compared to their actual effects because you could bind them to your 1-4 keys and mash them while facing a squad of enemies. Singularity got nerfed because it was fairly obvious that crowd controlling an entire room was cheap (and now there are a lot of disappointed Adepts out there).

AI Hacking sucks in both games, I hardly ever bothered using it.

The best compromise would be to allow all abilties to affect armored targets. I think there's a mod in the other forum that allows this.

Modifié par Ecael, 19 mars 2010 - 04:01 .

[hex23]

Kileyan wrote...

Are you really arguing with me as if the answer is impossible to figure out?

25% less shield, 25 % less armor, 75% more life, so that the powers really matter. Those are made up numbers but you know what I mean. Let the power work slightly quicker on a foe, and once is works, let the foe have enought life left that it was acutally worth using the power, rather than just shooting the darn thing.

The powers were stupid and useless, and as I said, more often that not they weren't the powers as named, they were just shield and armor depleting powers.

You could....I dunno....play on something harder than Normal. If you're telling me that all enemies die because they have "7 hit points" on Hardcore or Insanity, you're bullsh*tting.

Modifié par hex23, 19 mars 2010 - 04:06 .

[javierabegazo]

hex23 wrote...


You could....I dunno....play on something harder than Normal. If you're telling me that the Armor/Shield/Barrier damage reduction doesn't come into play on Hardcore or Insanity....and that all enemies die because they have "7 hit points", you're bullsh*tting.

QFT

[Onyx Jaguar]

Actually that stuff does come into play on Normal.



However Engineer and Adept have been nerfed into oblivion and this annoys me quite a bit.

[Reptilian Rob]

Ecael wrote...

Because this topic has never been brought up before....

GameRankings:
Mass Effect (XBox 360) - 91.07%
Mass Effect 2 (XBox 360) - 95.70%
Gears of War (XBox 360) - 93.77%
Gears of War 2 (XBox 360) - 93.11%

That's all that matters.

You are my hero, now and forever.

Modifié par Reptilian Rob, 19 mars 2010 - 04:12 .

[Kileyan]

hex23 wrote...

You could....I dunno....play on something harder than Normal. If you're
telling me that the Armor/Shield/Barrier damage reduction doesn't come
into play on Hardcore or Insanity....and that all enemies die because
they have "7 hit points", you're bullsh*tting.

I quoted before you edited. I am not complaining about the mobs hps at all. I am complaining about the mobs hps in relation to the damage you must do to their shields and armor before you can actually affect them with the princinple affect of a biotic or tech power.

It isn't that the shields or armor come into play, its that once you drop said shield or armor, there is little reason to use a friggin biotic or tech power, critters have almost no hps at all.

As I sad several posts above, lower the armor and shields of the critters by a bit, and dramatically raise the core hps of the critters so that once you drop shield or armor slightly quicker, the use of a biotic or tech ability actually means something. Biotic should be freezing or throwing around things, not just tossing those abilities to do armor damage then shooting them with a generic SMG.

Dunno, make the critter a bit more tough with hps and slighly less tough in all the protections that make biotic and tech powers useless, that so bad?

Modifié par Kileyan, 19 mars 2010 - 04:23 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

Archereon wrote...

Seeing as Mass Effect is expected to be released in Q1 2011, the Devs will barely have time to make engine modifications, meaning few new features.  For shovelware shooters (like EAs ideal vision of Mass Effect), that's not much of a problem, all you need is a few new guns and a new campaign to call something a sequel, but for RPGs and frankly nearly any proper game (including any self respecting FPS/TPS), like what Mass Effect 2 still clings to being, you need more to have a worthy sequel.

However, with a 1 year development window, its more likely we'll see even more "streamlining" rather than feature enhancement, perhaps a downgrading of companion dialogue to Dragon Age Awakenings style dialogue (you can only talk to your party members when they want to talk to you or there's a scenery object to interact with them over), and maybe even (if Bioware has finally fallen into EA conventions) a canon storyline.

Now these things, even the canonization, I could take, in an Expansion pack, but for a sequel, its unacceptable, especially seeing as we'll be paying $60 for a glorified EP, much like Gears of Wars fans did for that Gears of War expansion pack masquerading as Gears of War 2.

As such, I won't be purchasing a copy of Mass Effect 3, or Dragon Age 2 for that matter, as it has a rather tight development window as well, without some assurance that it is not "A glorified expansion pack"

1st, Bioware doesn't modify the engine, nor do they make it. The engine is developed by Epic Games. So get your facts straight 

2nd. Mass 3 is not coming out in Q1 2011. That information is false. Casey Hudson said it would be the same time frame as the Mass 2 production length, which was 2 years. So expect an early 2012 release. 


Source

Modifié par PoliteAssasin, 19 mars 2010 - 04:31 .

[Darthnemesis2]

Kileyan wrote...

I quoted before you edited. I am not complaining about the mobs hps at all. I am complaining about the mobs hps in relation to the damage you must do to their shields and armor before you can actually affect them with the princinple affect of a biotic or tech power.

It isn't that the shields or armor come into play, its that once you drop said shield or armor, there is little reason to use a friggin biotic or tech power, critters have almost no hps at all.

As I sad several posts above, lower the armor and shields of the critters by a bit, and dramatically raise the core hps of the critters so that once you drop shield or armor slightly quicker, the use of a biotic or tech ability actually means something. Biotic should be freezing or throwing around things, not just tossing those abilities to do armor damage then shooting them with a generic SMG.

Dunno, make the critter a bit more tough with hps and slighly less tough in all the protections that make biotic and tech powers useless, that so bad?

But the whole point of many of the powers in ME2 is to remove protection. Warp kills barriers/armor, Incinerate kills armor, overload kills shields. Lore-wise (and realistically), once those defenses are gone you're screwed and its reflected in the game. Granted, some powers like throw and ai hacking should be useful through armor at the very least, but that didn't happen.

[Kileyan]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

Kileyan wrote...

I quoted before you edited. I am not complaining about the mobs hps at all. I am complaining about the mobs hps in relation to the damage you must do to their shields and armor before you can actually affect them with the princinple affect of a biotic or tech power.

It isn't that the shields or armor come into play, its that once you drop said shield or armor, there is little reason to use a friggin biotic or tech power, critters have almost no hps at all.

As I sad several posts above, lower the armor and shields of the critters by a bit, and dramatically raise the core hps of the critters so that once you drop shield or armor slightly quicker, the use of a biotic or tech ability actually means something. Biotic should be freezing or throwing around things, not just tossing those abilities to do armor damage then shooting them with a generic SMG.

Dunno, make the critter a bit more tough with hps and slighly less tough in all the protections that make biotic and tech powers useless, that so bad?

But the whole point of many of the powers in ME2 is to remove protection. Warp kills barriers/armor, Incinerate kills armor, overload kills shields. Lore-wise (and realistically), once those defenses are gone you're screwed and its reflected in the game. Granted, some powers like throw and ai hacking should be useful through armor at the very least, but that didn't happen.

its ok, I'm not trying to convince people I am right:)

Just saying what I think, I'd like more hps and less defense so that the powers would actually work more often, the real powers, not just the MMO style inter class dependancy defense lowering powers were important.

Modifié par Kileyan, 19 mars 2010 - 05:18 .

[superimposed]

AI Hacking should work through armor, but not shields.

[KainrycKarr]

You can change this stuff by editing the INI file easy enough. As far as I'm concerned bioware gave me an incredible game, and with the tweaking that we can do, i can make the system work however i want it to. Something like that is a very lame reason to hate on the game.



ME2 is more shooter than RPG when you compare it with, say, DA:O, but if you compare it to an actual SHOOTER, you will notice just how much ME2's RPG roots stick out. It's very obvious.

[superimposed]

RPG is RPG. You make choices, you play a role. A shooter can still be an RPG. Simply because it doesn't have stat mechanics it doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

[Xandurpein]

superimposed wrote...

RPG is RPG. You make choices, you play a role. A shooter can still be an RPG. Simply because it doesn't have stat mechanics it doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

Indeed. You would think that the definition of a type of game has something to do with it's etymological roots. 'Real Time Strategy game' = a game of strategy played in real-time, 'First Person Shooter' = a game of shooting played in first person. 'Role Playing Game' = you are playing a role.

Why is the combat mechanics in DA:O more roleplaying than those in Mass Effect? Arguably the combat mechanics in Mass Effect are more 'roleplaying' than those in DA:O, as you can assume control of anyone in your party in DA:O, but you are always Shepard in Mass Effect.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 19 mars 2010 - 09:41 .

[Kalfear]

Archereon wrote...

Seeing as Mass Effect is expected to be released in Q1 2011, the Devs will barely have time to make engine modifications, meaning few new features.  For shovelware shooters (like EAs ideal vision of Mass Effect), that's not much of a problem, all you need is a few new guns and a new campaign to call something a sequel, but for RPGs and frankly nearly any proper game (including any self respecting FPS/TPS), like what Mass Effect 2 still clings to being, you need more to have a worthy sequel.

However, with a 1 year development window, its more likely we'll see even more "streamlining" rather than feature enhancement, perhaps a downgrading of companion dialogue to Dragon Age Awakenings style dialogue (you can only talk to your party members when they want to talk to you or there's a scenery object to interact with them over), and maybe even (if Bioware has finally fallen into EA conventions) a canon storyline.

Now these things, even the canonization, I could take, in an Expansion pack, but for a sequel, its unacceptable, especially seeing as we'll be paying $60 for a glorified EP, much like Gears of Wars fans did for that Gears of War expansion pack masquerading as Gears of War 2.

As such, I won't be purchasing a copy of Mass Effect 3, or Dragon Age 2 for that matter, as it has a rather tight development window as well, without some assurance that it is not "A glorified expansion pack"

Ill be buying Dragon Age 2 (in theory, will see when time comes) but Im with you on taking ME3 off my shopping list!

Christiona Normans hugely insultinga and arrogent power point presentation pretty much told me the direction "SHE" wants to take game in and its not good or positive for the decade old Bioware RPG fan out there.

ME2 was not a step in right direction and someone with some common sence needs to take over the project and bring it back into ME1 story telling lines. They got the combat where they wanted it, no need to spend more time on it when the RPG aspects were so utterly destroyed in the game!

[superimposed]

ME:2's engine most certainly was a step in the right direction. The actual telling of the story and characterisation was horrific. The plot was just wrong, basically.

[Bigdoser]

Kalfear wrote...

Archereon wrote...

Seeing as Mass Effect is expected to be released in Q1 2011, the Devs will barely have time to make engine modifications, meaning few new features.  For shovelware shooters (like EAs ideal vision of Mass Effect), that's not much of a problem, all you need is a few new guns and a new campaign to call something a sequel, but for RPGs and frankly nearly any proper game (including any self respecting FPS/TPS), like what Mass Effect 2 still clings to being, you need more to have a worthy sequel.

However, with a 1 year development window, its more likely we'll see even more "streamlining" rather than feature enhancement, perhaps a downgrading of companion dialogue to Dragon Age Awakenings style dialogue (you can only talk to your party members when they want to talk to you or there's a scenery object to interact with them over), and maybe even (if Bioware has finally fallen into EA conventions) a canon storyline.

Now these things, even the canonization, I could take, in an Expansion pack, but for a sequel, its unacceptable, especially seeing as we'll be paying $60 for a glorified EP, much like Gears of Wars fans did for that Gears of War expansion pack masquerading as Gears of War 2.

As such, I won't be purchasing a copy of Mass Effect 3, or Dragon Age 2 for that matter, as it has a rather tight development window as well, without some assurance that it is not "A glorified expansion pack"

Ill be buying Dragon Age 2 (in theory, will see when time comes) but Im with you on taking ME3 off my shopping list!

Christiona Normans hugely insultinga and arrogent power point presentation pretty much told me the direction "SHE" wants to take game in and its not good or positive for the decade old Bioware RPG fan out there.

ME2 was not a step in right direction and someone with some common sence needs to take over the project and bring it back into ME1 story telling lines. They got the combat where they wanted it, no need to spend more time on it when the RPG aspects were so utterly destroyed in the game!

RPG aspects? please explain because i swear RPG means role playing game? and you are taking the role of shepard so i think the RPG aspect is still there. Plus the presentation was very informative and she does look at player feedback.

[Xandurpein]

I think we need a new type of definition here. Roleplaying ought to be about playing a role to make any kind of sense. Maybe a 'Character Stat Planning' or CSP game. Then Mass Effect can be a RPG/Shooter and DA:O a RPG/CSP. It would make things a bit more clear.

[Bigdoser]

The problem I have with some people on this forum is that they are whining and not giving constructive criticism.

[Jebel Krong]

superimposed wrote...

RPG is RPG. You make choices, you play a role. A shooter can still be an RPG. Simply because it doesn't have stat mechanics it doesn't mean it's not an RPG.

me2 has relic "stat mechanics" all over the place in combat, particularly. the way your weapons work against shields/armour/health and the mods, too is perhaps the most obvious.