298 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Chuck_Vu wrote...

Undercover officers are still subject rules and regulations and the laws apply, if they conciously kill a fellow officer who is not undercover.  Think undercover cop killing a uniformed cop.  Your argument applies only if Cerebus is still a RECOGNISED part of the Alliance military.  The Council (if you saved them) says they are terrorists, and Anderson (if you appointed him to councilor) gives the cold shoulder and won't tell you what's up with Alenko/Williams because you are working for Cerebus.  That pretty much implies that Cerebus is a rogue unit.  Since they've gone rogue, Cerebus won't answer to the Alliance equivalent of the UCMJ.  And as a rouge unit, they are not valid members of the Alliance and not able to create "Highly Realistic Similations" or "Research Programs" on behalf of the Alliance.   Those Alliance soldiers in question are now considered - MURDERED.  The only way out of this, would be if the Alliance soldiers involved knowingly VOLUNTEERED for a CEREBUS (which is now at best a CIVILIAN group, or a domestic terrorist group at worst) simulation/experiment.

And remember TIM refers to the Alliance as "The Alliance," like he and Cerebus is outside of them.  He doesn't refer to the Alliance as "WE", like he and Cerebus is still a part of the Alliance.

Why would TIM acknowledge that Cerberus isn't rogue to Shepard? It's a convenient legend to keep the liability off the Alliance, and Shepard doesn't need to know the truth, especially since he might not believe it.

And stop this judicial preaching! Laws are for us little folks. To the league where TIM plays law simply does not apply. Nobody in that league can be a subject to prosecution, unless it is decided on by even more powerful people (usually as a result of some major political campaign or due to losing a war). Then the fallen are notified that they are condemned and there is no escape and deals are struck with them to get their cooperation in the trial show which is set up for the TV (= us little folks). If they refuse to cooperate, they simply dissapear. If they agree to cooperate (which they usually do, given the alternative), they undergo a trial, which is written word by word from the very start, like a screenplay.

Goodwood wrote...
The Systems Alliance is the duly elected and enacted representation of humanity in the galaxy. To betray the Alliance is, in fact, to betray your species.

Tell that to the Horizon mechanic guy. Then click here.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 mars 2010 - 10:17 .

[Steel Dancer]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina used Shepard to get to the Council and succeded (as a side effect a galaxy was saved from an immindent destruction).

Then Shepard was sent to his death.

Then TIM rebuild Shepard and successfully used him to destroy the Collectors.

Shepard = tool, pawn, errand boy.

Pawns can rise to become Queens. All it takes is the loss of one King for a checkmate and game over.

[jklinders]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Have you read a copy of the contract, that people sign when they enlist in the Alliance Navy? May be they willfully subject themselves to highly realistic simulations without prior notice in course of advanced training and/or military research programs. You know, to serve humanity. The greater good. All the stuff.

Cerberus didn't have that kind of authority, even when they were part of the Alliance.  That kind of decision would have to be made by their superior officers.  What happened to Kahoku's men was them going rogue and betraying all of humanity.  

Come on, confess, that you don't have a slightest idea of who has authority to what in the Alliance. 99% of people think that a certain diplomat has authourity to lockdown an Alliance warship lent out to the Citadel Council.

Granted, but unless the ME time line is the true future and you are a time traveller from said future, the same reasoning applies to you. You also seem to think you know more about Alliance organizations than an Alliance Admiral with your frequent assertions about Kahoku being wrong about Cerberus. Wow, you must be a psychic time traveller from the future!!

[Zulu_DFA]

Steel Dancer wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina used Shepard to get to the Council and succeded (as a side effect a galaxy was saved from an immindent destruction).

Then Shepard was sent to his death.

Then TIM rebuild Shepard and successfully used him to destroy the Collectors.

Shepard = tool, pawn, errand boy.

Pawns can rise to become Queens. All it takes is the loss of one King for a checkmate and game over.

Pawns can become Queens. And Queens can get sacrificed as easily as the pawns. It takes only two Kings to end the game in a draw. And pawns never become Kings.

[KnotEngaged]

Screw the Normandy. I'll find a new ship, a better ship, a Millennium Falcon!

[Steel Dancer]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina used Shepard to get to the Council and succeded (as a side effect a galaxy was saved from an immindent destruction).

Then Shepard was sent to his death.

Then TIM rebuild Shepard and successfully used him to destroy the Collectors.

Shepard = tool, pawn, errand boy.

Pawns can rise to become Queens. All it takes is the loss of one King for a checkmate and game over.

Pawns can become Queens. And Queens can get sacrificed as easily as the pawns. It takes only two Kings to end the game in a draw. And pawns never become Kings.

So you'll aim for a draw? Your confidence appears to be eroding.

[Zulu_DFA]

jklinders wrote...

Granted, but unless the ME time line is the true future and you are a time traveller from said future, the same reasoning applies to you. You also seem to think you know more about Alliance organizations than an Alliance Admiral with your frequent assertions about Kahoku being wrong about Cerberus. Wow, you must be a psychic time traveller from the future!!

I'm just trying ti analyse the info we have. Not just like Kahoku said, that they are rogueб and that makes them rogue. Also, because ME is in the future and in space, you should clear your mind of all the preconceptions like Alliance = US government.

[Zulu_DFA]

Steel Dancer wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina used Shepard to get to the Council and succeded (as a side effect a galaxy was saved from an immindent destruction).

Then Shepard was sent to his death.

Then TIM rebuild Shepard and successfully used him to destroy the Collectors.

Shepard = tool, pawn, errand boy.

Pawns can rise to become Queens. All it takes is the loss of one King for a checkmate and game over.

Pawns can become Queens. And Queens can get sacrificed as easily as the pawns. It takes only two Kings to end the game in a draw. And pawns never become Kings.

So you'll aim for a draw? Your confidence appears to be eroding.

I'm just saying that Shepard (Pawn/Queen) is more expendable, than those who use him in their games (Kings).

[jklinders]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Granted, but unless the ME time line is the true future and you are a time traveller from said future, the same reasoning applies to you. You also seem to think you know more about Alliance organizations than an Alliance Admiral with your frequent assertions about Kahoku being wrong about Cerberus. Wow, you must be a psychic time traveller from the future!!

I'm just trying ti analyse the info we have. Not just like Kahoku said, that they are rogueб and that makes them rogue. Also, because ME is in the future and in space, you should clear your mind of all the preconceptions like Alliance = US government.

Ok analyse then. but you are reaching with your Cerberus is part of the
Alliance theory. You are in fact reaching so far you need a fishing
takle to pull your arms back in. For every talking point you raise out
of your analysis, there are several points of lore or high ranking
Alliance people saying TIM  and Cerberus are
rogue.

By the way I am still waiting for your plan B on the
Collector ship mission.

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There seems to be a lot of rogue elements in the Alliance... Maybe, upon showing a finger to TIM, you should join that mechaniс guy from Horizon? Buy a farm and breed the sheep?

or just return to the Council and continue being a SPECTRE?  There's more to the galaxy than humanity.  Being a SPECTRE means you're protecting all the species.  Eliminating the racist/terrorist organizations like Cerberus, is actually part of your job, ya know.

[CmdrFenix83]

Goodwood wrote...

Suron wrote...

Gabey5 wrote...

.......return it...and go begging to the alliance/council 

how about no...Cerberus is a terrorist organization...do you think the alliance or the council will prosecute Shepard for taking it? 

Would you return a bomb to the taliban or any other terrorist organization?  exactly....I swear the Cerberus bandwagon is the dumbest one to come across from a game in a long time.....

Think of it this way: Cerberus is the KKK of the late 22nd Century galactic space race. This, of course, makes it even more fun to do everything possible to sabotage the organization and its efforts, subvert its membership, and steal its best technology for use against the bigger enemy.

Well, I wouldn't say that.  Terra Firma would be the KKK.  Cerberus is more like a militant group of neo-n@zis.  Would love for Shepard to be able to do his job and eliminate the lot of them as a Council SPECTRE.

[eternalnightmare13]

I took Jack's advice and went pirate. Pirate comandeer ships. If TIMMY! wants his itty bitty shippy wippy back he can come get it him own damn self if has the quads!

[Goodwood]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina used Shepard to get to the Council and succeded (as a side effect a galaxy was saved from an immindent destruction).

Then Shepard was sent to his death.

Then TIM rebuild Shepard and successfully used him to destroy the Collectors.

Shepard = tool, pawn, errand boy.

Pawns can rise to become Queens. All it takes is the loss of one King for a checkmate and game over.

Pawns can become Queens. And Queens can get sacrificed as easily as the pawns. It takes only two Kings to end the game in a draw. And pawns never become Kings.

Treating sentient beings like pawns tends to have the rather nasty drawback of those pawns growing fangs and biting you on the ass. To whit, the mujihadeen that eventually became al Qaeda. Blowback at its finest, and you of all people should be aware of what happened because of it.

Seriously, thinking of Shepard as a pawn is probably the ultimate act of stupidity that Timmy could make, particularly since he did everything possible to ****** her off, including (but not limited to) bringing her back to life without asking, leaking false information about Shepard's resurrection/survival and allegiance, working damn hard to get her killed by witholding vital operational intelligence and planning, and the pais d'resistance, wanting to grow his own Reaper to fight the Reapers, without any concern for possible blowback (indoctrination is one mean motherf**ker).

[Sina84]

If I was TIM, I would have a nice little self destruct button ready incase Shepard would start acting like a little snotnosed spoiled brat and try to steal my billion credit ship.

[mopotter]

He gave me the Normandy. No take backs. I don't remember him ever saying go check out Cerberus' new ship. It's mine. mine and Joker's. Geth Knight is right. He'd let my fish die.

[Zulu_DFA]

jklinders wrote...

Ok analyse then. but you are reaching with your Cerberus is part of the
Alliance theory. You are in fact reaching so far you need a fishing
takle to pull your arms back in. For every talking point you raise out
of your analysis, there are several points of lore or high ranking
Alliance people saying TIM  and Cerberus are
rogue.

By the way I am still waiting for your plan B on the
Collector ship mission.

Funny thing, TIM may be the highest ranking Alliance man you meet (so to say) in the game. Second highest is Admiral Hacket who talks to you over comm. Human Councilor (whoever you chose) is high enough in the Council chain of command (if there is any), and as such can not be entrusted with access to sensitive Alliance files. Anderson is not sure about Cerberus, that's why he sends a representative to investigate. Kahoku was so high ranking that he didn't even know about Cerberus before he was deep in black ops sh*t, and Tooms, is just a simple soldier, pissed off and seeking revenge.

As for plan B on the Collector ship mission, that's a matter of in-game knowledge, which is very limited to us as players. I don't have one. But TIM definitely has, because he does not need a ME2 disk to access the necessary information and play his games.
Have you seen ME:Redemption #3? That little conversation between TIM and Miranda?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 mars 2010 - 10:42 .

[DarkNova50]

No. The Normandy is my ship now.

If the Illusive Man wants it back I'll fly the thing straight up his ass.

[Urazz]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Why? Cerberus owes you that much for stopping the collectors.

Because the Normandy is TIM's private freaking property.

So is Shepard, by your logic. But yeah, as has been said, grand theft starship, hell yeah!

You are going to get hurt for it. Remember Paul Grayson?

Yeah, but Shepard is alot more badass than Paul Grayson.

And what could the Illusive Man do? Call Csec to report a stolen ship?

Either way, he's pissed off at you if you destroy the base so you might as well keep the ship.

[Chuck_Vu]

@Zulu_DFA

I don't consider it judicial preaching. Just drawing parallels from current rules, regulations and laws regarding similar organizations like Cerberus of a fictional story. I believe in even in the alleged future that those protocols would still be in place and probably more defined then they are now.



And laws are for everybody. If the powerful, like you say, are above them, then they wouldn't even bother hiding what they are doing and there would never be a televised show trial.



Side note: Topically applied flouride does not prevent tooth decay. It does render one's teeth visible to satellite detection.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There seems to be a lot of rogue elements in the Alliance... Maybe, upon showing a finger to TIM, you should join that mechaniс guy from Horizon? Buy a farm and breed the sheep?

or just return to the Council and continue being a SPECTRE?  There's more to the galaxy than humanity.  Being a SPECTRE means you're protecting all the species.  Eliminating the racist/terrorist organizations like Cerberus, is actually part of your job, ya know.

Look who is here! An alien appeaser! Commander Perfection in flesh!

Behold the actual reason of Cerberus extremeties. The treason you all are whining about! It's here!!! Look!

///

Part of your job was to become a spectre to earn political gain for the Alliance . Nothing more.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 mars 2010 - 10:49 .

[Frieza1987]

Goodwood wrote...
Seriously, thinking of Shepard as a pawn is probably the ultimate act of stupidity that Timmy could make, particularly since he did everything possible to ****** her off, including (but not limited to) bringing her back to life without asking

That really pissed me off too. I couldn't even play the game after the first couple levels because I was so angry that TIM reanimated me without asking. I prefer being dead. Much simpler gameplay/storyline.

(Achievement Unlocked - Stayed Dead for ME2 - 5gp)

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Neither does Udina.

And the military works similarly everywhere. They take orders from their
commanders-in-chief, and commanders-in-chief are always buddies with
some fat corporate cats. And there's nothing you can deny to a really
good buddy of yours, right?

Udina issued the lockdown order.  Anderson tells you this.  It's also why his computer was capable of releasing it.  The Council told you repeatedly that if you believe there's a threat, it's your JOB to deal with it yourself.  As far as galactic matters go, Udina was the single most influencial and powerful human in the galaxy.  Try reading Revelation, they reinforce this concept that Ambassador = most powerful.  Come ME2, that power is in the hands of the Counciler, or in all of my playthroughs, Anderson.

Also, taking military action because your civilian friend suggests it is grounds for court-martial.

[Asheer_Khan]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There seems to be a lot of rogue elements in the Alliance... Maybe, upon showing a finger to TIM, you should join that mechaniс guy from Horizon? Buy a farm and breed the sheep?

or just return to the Council and continue being a SPECTRE?  There's more to the galaxy than humanity.  Being a SPECTRE means you're protecting all the species.  Eliminating the racist/terrorist organizations like Cerberus, is actually part of your job, ya know.

Look who is here! An alien appeaser! Commander Perfection in flesh!

Behold the actual reason of Cerberus extremeties. The treason you all are whining about! It's here!!! Look!

///

Part of your job was to become a spectre to earn political gain for the Alliance . Nothing more.

Now you sound like that moron Quatrich in Avatar...

[Ray Joel Oh]

I'll pay him back by saving his ass and the rest of the universe.

[Zulu_DFA]

Chuck_Vu wrote...

@Zulu_DFA
I don't consider it judicial preaching. Just drawing parallels from current rules, regulations and laws regarding similar organizations like Cerberus of a fictional story. I believe in even in the alleged future that those protocols would still be in place and probably more defined then they are now.

And laws are for everybody.

Ironically, in the future it seams they bother much less with the protocol for the shadow operatives. Spectres are above the law, don't you remember? Why shouldn't TIM be?

If the powerful, like you say, are above them, then they wouldn't even bother hiding what they are doing and there would never be a televised show trial.

They would bother, because it helps greatly to keep us little folks content and compliant. You know, the illusion that laws are for everybody is the cornerstone of the modern society. It doesn't have to be the truth though.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 18 mars 2010 - 10:57 .