298 réponses à ce sujet

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Udina used Shepard to get to the Council and succeded (as a side effect a galaxy was saved from an immindent destruction).

Then Shepard was sent to his death.

Then TIM rebuild Shepard and successfully used him to destroy the Collectors.

Shepard = tool, pawn, errand boy.

From TIM/Udina's perspective, yes.

However, Udina ended up stuck as 'Advisor' to Anderson "I don't answer to you, Udina.  Why don't you go to your office and think about that for a while?"  "Yes, Counciler."  And TIM is stuck watching as Shepard saves the galaxy fromt he Reapers.  If he wants to try and come for Shepard later, he's welcome to try. 

They also didn't send Shepard to his/her death.  Shepard was sent to investigate the disappearance of three ships because they suspected the Geth and the Normandy had the stealth system.  There was absolutely no way they could have predicted the Collector ship appearing out of no where and actually being able to locate the stealthed vessel.

[Zulu_DFA]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

There seems to be a lot of rogue elements in the Alliance... Maybe, upon showing a finger to TIM, you should join that mechaniс guy from Horizon? Buy a farm and breed the sheep?

or just return to the Council and continue being a SPECTRE?  There's more to the galaxy than humanity.  Being a SPECTRE means you're protecting all the species.  Eliminating the racist/terrorist organizations like Cerberus, is actually part of your job, ya know.

Look who is here! An alien appeaser! Commander Perfection in flesh!

Behold the actual reason of Cerberus extremeties. The treason you all are whining about! It's here!!! Look!

///

Part of your job was to become a spectre to earn political gain for the Alliance . Nothing more.

Now you sound like that moron Quatrich in Avatar...

I didn't watch Avatar. Because, as I heard from those who did, the protagonist basically betrayed his fellow soldiers. In a story, that was basically Pacahontas with digital blue people with ugly noses, elven ears and cat's eyes playing Indians.

Oh, Quatrich seems to be quite a guy!

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why would TIM acknowledge that Cerberus isn't rogue to Shepard? It's a convenient legend to keep the liability off the Alliance, and Shepard doesn't need to know the truth, especially since he might not believe it.

And stop this judicial preaching! Laws are for us little folks. To the league where TIM plays law simply does not apply. Nobody in that league can be a subject to prosecution, unless it is decided on by even more powerful people (usually as a result of some major political campaign or due to losing a war). Then the fallen are notified that they are condemned and there is no escape and deals are struck with them to get their cooperation in the trial show which is set up for the TV (= us little folks). If they refuse to cooperate, they simply dissapear. If they agree to cooperate (which they usually do, given the alternative), they undergo a trial, which is written word by word from the very start, like a screenplay.

You're still making up that Cerberus is part of the Alliance still.  Nothing supports your theory.  Nothing at all.  Either way, by existing within Council Space and/or operating within Council Space absolutely *does* mean he falls within Council jurisdiction.  He's basically Osama, except trying to take over instead of just trying to blow everything up.  I turly hope we get the option to bring this maniac to justice before the end of the series.

Goodwood wrote...
The Systems Alliance is the duly elected and enacted representation of humanity in the galaxy. To betray the Alliance is, in fact, to betray your species.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Tell that to the Horizon mechanic guy. Then click here.

He left Alliance territory, he didn't turn around and start murdering them.  Your logic there is horrifically flawed.

Modifié par CmdrFenix83, 18 mars 2010 - 11:32 .

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I'm just saying that Shepard (Pawn/Queen) is more expendable, than those who use him in their games (Kings).

Dead Shepard = game over for galaxy, cycle continues.  Feel free to kill your only chance for survival.  TIM is a douchebag, but he's not stupid.  He knows Shepard isn't expendable.  He'll sit and pout until ME3's over and then attempt his coup when he sees an opportunity... assuming we don't take him down in the process of dropping the Reapers.

[Zulu_DFA]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

 Your logic there is horrifically flawed.

Logic cannot be:

1. somebody's

2. flawed.

Go educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

[CmdrFenix83]

Sina84 wrote...

If I was TIM, I would have a nice little self destruct button ready incase Shepard would start acting like a little snotnosed spoiled brat and try to steal my billion credit ship.

He didn't invest all that money into Shepard because Shepard was expendable.  TIM needs Shepard to finish the job, and he knows it.  Using this self-destruct after that's accomplished would be impossible.  EDI would have found the device and scrubbed it.

[Chuck_Vu]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Chuck_Vu wrote...

@Zulu_DFA
I don't consider it judicial preaching. Just drawing parallels from current rules, regulations and laws regarding similar organizations like Cerberus of a fictional story. I believe in even in the alleged future that those protocols would still be in place and probably more defined then they are now.

And laws are for everybody.

Ironically, in the future it seams they bother much less with the protocol for the shadow operatives. Spectres are above the law, don't you remember? Why shouldn't TIM be?

If the powerful, like you say, are above them, then they wouldn't even bother hiding what they are doing and there would never be a televised show trial.

They would bother, because it helps greatly to keep us little folks content and compliant. You know, the illusion that laws are for everybody is the cornerstone of the modern society. It doesn't have to be the truth though.

TIM wasn't appointed by the Council to be a Spectre or anything even close.  As long as he operates in Council space, he is subject to Council laws.

And Saren's got revoked.  Even Spectres answer to somebody.  There are many black ops teams/shadow operatives, fictional and otherwise.  But that implies they still answer to govt. authority.  If a group does not answer to a govt authority, then it is not sanctioned by that govt.    Who does TIM and Cerberus answer to???  If the answer is no one, then that's makes them criminals or terrorist...  Or both.

And Spectres are something invented by Bioware to allow players to branch out morally.  Not everyone enjoys playing a paladin.  I don't.

[huntrrz]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

He didn't invest all that money into Shepard because Shepard was expendable.  TIM needs Shepard to finish the job, and he knows it.  Using this self-destruct after that's accomplished would be impossible.  EDI would have found the device and scrubbed it.

"Refueling accident", I tells ya.  No survivors to avenge the fallen commander.  Any evidence obliterated in the explosion.

Tidy.  Decisive.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Cerberus > Alliance

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Funny thing, TIM may be the highest ranking Alliance man you meet (so to say) in the game. Second highest is Admiral Hacket who talks to you over comm. Human Councilor (whoever you chose) is high enough in the Council chain of command (if there is any), and as such can not be entrusted with access to sensitive Alliance files. Anderson is not sure about Cerberus, that's why he sends a representative to investigate. Kahoku was so high ranking that he didn't even know about Cerberus before he was deep in black ops sh*t, and Tooms, is just a simple soldier, pissed off and seeking revenge.

As for plan B on the Collector ship mission, that's a matter of in-game knowledge, which is very limited to us as players. I don't have one. But TIM definitely has, because he does not need a ME2 disk to access the necessary information and play his games.
Have you seen ME:Redemption #3? That little conversation between TIM and Miranda?

1) You're pulling this "Cerberus is top Alliance brass" theory out of your ass.  You know it.  I know it.  Everyone in this thread knows it.  Every single shred of evidence in game goes against your theory.  Doctor Wane(or was it Wang?) is even up on trial in all my playthroughs testifying against Cerberus' actions on Akuze.  Nothing supports your theory.

2) You're completely making up the structure of the Alliance to suit your baseless theory.  On the galactic scene, Anderson *is* humanity's leader.  He has absolute authority.  Absolute.  Now, as we're all aware, leaders are usually kept in the dark about things for plausible deniability.  Regardless, if Anderson said jump, the Alliance would have to do it. 

[Asheer_Khan]

Quatrich was stupid racist idiot who doesn't hesitated to open fire to unarmed womens and childrens so he deserved to die.



And Zulu_DFA please remember that if not Council intervention then it's very high possibility that humanity would share Krogans fate after First Contact war and Earth would be turned back to stone age by Turian fleet... in other word NO colonies, No access to Citadel and perhaps full lock down or perma blockade of Charon relay for next 200 years...

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Look who is here! An alien appeaser! Commander Perfection in flesh!

Behold the actual reason of Cerberus extremeties. The treason you all are whining about! It's here!!! Look!

///

Part of your job was to become a spectre to earn political gain for the Alliance . Nothing more.

Yes, Darth Douchebag, it's me.  From Udina's perspective, and your own as the racists, Cerberus Stooge, yes, that was why you joined.

Paragon Shepards didn't join for political gain.  It advanced humanity, made them an equal.  We sacrificed ships and human lives to save the Council.  We are honored to be SPECTRE's and use that authority to protect the galaxy as a whole. 

Shouldn't you be with Miranda breeding armies of husks while torturing *human* children?  By the way, Saracino called;  He'd like to thank you for supporting his very-racist campaign. 

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ironically, in the future it seams they bother much less with the protocol for the shadow operatives. Spectres are above the law, don't you remember? Why shouldn't TIM be?

We answer directly to the Council for our actions.  If your actions aren't proven to be 'in the galaxy's best interest', you lose that authority, and are hunted down to be brought to justice... or did you forget the entire plot of the first game?  No, SPECTRE's aren't above the law, they just have much more leniancy when it comes to preserving galactic stability.  If you have to assassinate someone that's threatening to destroy the current galactic government( ::cough:: TIM ::cough:, you would be completely justified in doing so. 

Walking down the street and murdering 50 people for no reason whatsoever with no provable justification would result in consequences and charges against you if you were caught.

[Hurbster]

Would I give the Normandy back ? No. It's mine now. He can try and take it if he wants. My sole survivor would be quite happy to discuss things face-to-face.

[CmdrFenix83]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

 Your logic there is horrifically flawed.

Logic cannot be:

1. somebody's

2. flawed.

Go educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic

Way to avoid the discussion.  You would be correct.  Logic itself cannot be flawed.  Therefor, your example there had absolutely no logical basis.  I'm starting to think more and more that you're either a very good troll, or just an idiot.

[CmdrFenix83]

huntrrz wrote...

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

He didn't invest all that money into Shepard because Shepard was expendable.  TIM needs Shepard to finish the job, and he knows it.  Using this self-destruct after that's accomplished would be impossible.  EDI would have found the device and scrubbed it.

"Refueling accident", I tells ya.  No survivors to avenge the fallen commander.  Any evidence obliterated in the explosion.

Tidy.  Decisive.

Well, I won't claim that it would be impossible to assassinate Shepard.  Still won't happen until after the Reapers are dealt with.  Which gives us time to deal with TIM.

[Xaijin]

Give up the Normandy for an Asari dreadnoght with turian weapons?



Sure. Stealth is of no value against the reapers but a cannon the size of the citadel is.

[Asheer_Khan]

www.youtube.com/watch

I wonder how similar speech could sound voiced by Timmy... and something tells me that renegade version of Mass Effect is moved in similar way.

[huntrrz]

CmdrFenix83 wrote...

Well, I won't claim that it would be impossible to assassinate Shepard.  Still won't happen until after the Reapers are dealt with.  Which gives us time to deal with TIM.

Oh, certainly.  TIM would bide his time until Shepard was no longer needed.

[Terraneaux]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And the military works similarly everywhere. They take orders from their commanders-in-chief, and commanders-in-chief are always buddies with some fat corporate cats. And there's nothing you can deny to a really good buddy of yours, right?

Yes, corruption exists.  Yes, it is reprehensible.  I don't really know what else you can say other than that.

As long as it is a computer game, yes.

Well... yeah, it is.  I don't really know what you're trying to say - that mastermind manipulator archetypes are scarier than Eldritch Horror archetypes?  They're all fictional characters.  TIM is scary, but the Reapers are infinitely scarier.  They both must be opposed by the heroes if justice and peace are to triumph.  

[Terraneaux]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Funny thing, TIM may be the highest ranking Alliance man you meet (so to say) in the game. Second highest is Admiral Hacket who talks to you over comm. Human Councilor (whoever you chose) is high enough in the Council chain of command (if there is any), and as such can not be entrusted with access to sensitive Alliance files. Anderson is not sure about Cerberus, that's why he sends a representative to investigate. Kahoku was so high ranking that he didn't even know about Cerberus before he was deep in black ops sh*t, and Tooms, is just a simple soldier, pissed off and seeking revenge.

As for plan B on the Collector ship mission, that's a matter of in-game knowledge, which is very limited to us as players. I don't have one. But TIM definitely has, because he does not need a ME2 disk to access the necessary information and play his games.
Have you seen ME:Redemption #3? That little conversation between TIM and Miranda?

No, TIM was definitely below the rank of Hackett - Cerberus used to be an Alliance military unit, which in the end would have answered to an Admiral of some kind.  You need to stop with your masturbatory fantasy that TIM is really in charge of everything.  He's the leader of a terrorist organization which went rogue from the Alliance during or immediately before ME1.  There is no information to contradict this, and quite a lot to support it.  

[crimzontearz]

zulu, we have a term in my language for individuals like you....it's "bastian contrario"



stop being one

[Terraneaux]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I didn't watch Avatar. Because, as I heard from those who did, the protagonist basically betrayed his fellow soldiers. In a story, that was basically Pacahontas with digital blue people with ugly noses, elven ears and cat's eyes playing Indians.

Oh, Quatrich seems to be quite a guy!

I pirated Avatar so I wouldn't have to give my money to James Cameron, but I wanted to watch it so I could criticize it.  Its message was reprehensible for the exact reasons you mentioned, but it's strange that you have no problem with Cerberus betraying the Alliance - except you don't think they've left it.  I think that, rather than having an appreciation for loyalty towards one's kin and country, you have an appreciation for the less savory parts of TIM's and Quaritch's behavior, such as their autocratic behavior and callous treatment of their fellow humans, and are trying to pretend that TIM's obvious betrayal of humanity doesn't exist because it doesn't allow you to appreciate them without reservation.  

[Halo Quea]

The Governator wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

Again Shepard's bill with Cerberus and TIM in case anyone missed it-

Payment to the Shadow Broker (unknown but clearly astronomical)
Lazarus Project- $4 Billion Credits
Normandy SR2- $240 Billion Credits of EZO

Would YOU allow Shepard to just walk away and take your property after spending that kind of money?

That depends...am I able to front a more hostile, protective force capable of killing Shepard for defying me?  No.  Therefore, I tuck my tail and wish Shepard well in betraying me...oh, and I'm a ****** so I deserve it.

Did you read Ascension?  Cerberus does not know how to let things go.

[Big Yam]

Wouldn't matter if you gave the ship back. I'll bet Cerberus is the arm of the Alliance that does all the unsavory but necessary work.