111 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

The whole idea that "those who can die in ME2 won't play an important part in ME3" is only true if you by 'important part' mean integral to the plot. They can still be important as squad mate and LI. There is absolutly no reason at all to think you need new squad mates to ME3 because the scuad mates in ME2 could die.

Just look at Dragon Age. Only two party members are integral to the plot - Alistair and Morrigan. The game forces those two characters on you and they can't die, at least not until a specific plot point. The other party members are optional, can die or you may not even recruit them at all. This does not however in any way male those characters less important for the party interaction. Morrigan's romance isn't more important or better realized than Leliana's, just because Morrigan is needed for the main plot and Leliana isn't.

There is absolutely no reason why only Ashley would be a squad mate or LI in ME3 and Tali not, just because Tali can die in ME2. It only means that Tali won't be necessary for the main plot, while Ashley may be. It's just two different things. Why is that so hard to grasp?

Modifié par Xandurpein, 19 mars 2010 - 02:24 .

[IoCaster]

I think that people would be well advised to keep their expectations in check and not assume too much about what's going to happen in ME3. Dial the clock back a bit and ponder something. When you finished ME did anyone here ever expect any of the following would occur in the sequel?

1) ME3 would start out by having Shepard and crew out hunting Geth. You know...Geth!

2) The Normandy would get attacked and destroyed by the Collectors. You know...Collectors. (huh?)

3) Shepard will be killed. (wait, what?)

4) Shepard would be resurrected and find out that two years had passed while he/she lay dormant. 

5) That Cerberus and TIM (who?) had spent billions of credits to bring Shepard back and now Shep would be working for a gang of terrorist thugs. 

Keep in mind that this all happens practically before you've had a chance to gain manual control of your game character. Let's see a show of hands here. How many of you guys and gals predicted this?... Yeah, right.

I hope that the point I'm trying to make is fairly obvious here. There's just no way of knowing what the heck BioWare is going to do in ME3. 

Now let's think about something else for a moment. The structure of the story/plot of ME2 made it necessary to have an expanded roster of squad members. At this point there is no reason to think that ME3 will follow the same path. If they go with a more streamlined structure of larger, longer and better integrated main story missions, (think Feros in ME) then you won't need such a large roster. Say they go with 6-8 main plot missions. Why would you need a pool of 12-15 squad mates to pick and choose from? Unless they're going to give you an opportunity to swap out squad mates mid-mission, you'll end up with a lot of bench warmers. Of course, there's also the fact that any of the ME2 cast could be dead for a lot of players. It would be a serious waste of resources to include that many characters.

EA has been losing money for most of the past 2-3 years. They've laid off a bunch of people and closed some studios in that time. They're heavily invested in The Old Republic and launching an MMO isn't cheap. Although ME2 has sold well, it's not a blockbuster on the X360 of the same scale as Gears, Halo or COD. It's not even close to that territory. They posted a press release that stated that they initially shipped 2 million copies. Through the end of February it has sold (according to NPD) ~820,000 copies on X360 in the US. Now hopefully they've sold as many or more in Europe. I also hope that the PC version has sold as many or more as well. I don't have any idea what the dev budget was for the game, but the marketing bill must have been substantial. Two minute ads on an NFL playoff broadcast are pretty damn expensive. The point of all this is that EA/BioWare are not sitting on stacks of cash that they're willing to waste on content that isn't strictly necessary.

It's nice to want things, but let's be realistic here. The logical assumption to make is that they're going to choose the most efficient and least costly options for ME3. That probably means cameo roles and emails for any character that's not an integral part of the main story. Who those characters are I have absolutely no idea and neither do any of you. 

[JeanLuc761]

IoCaster wrote...

-snip-
It's nice to want things, but let's be realistic here. The logical assumption to make is that they're going to choose the most efficient and least costly options for ME3. That probably means cameo roles and emails for any character that's not an integral part of the main story. Who those characters are I have absolutely no idea and neither do any of you. 

That is the most logical path, it really just depends on whether or not EA wants to take a risk.

Way I see it though, Bioware simply can not do to our ME2 allies what they did to our ME1 allies.  That would be the worst possible design choice they could make.

[kraidy1117]

Xandurpein wrote...

The whole idea that "those who can die in ME2 won't play an important part in ME3" is only true if you by 'important part' mean integral to the plot. They can still be important as squad mate and LI. There is absolutly no reason at all to think you need new squad mates to ME3 because the scuad mates in ME2 could die.

Just look at Dragon Age. Only two party members are integral to the plot - Alistair and Morrigan. The game forces those two characters on you and they can't die, at least not until a specific plot point. The other party members are optional, can die or you may not even recruit them at all. This does not however in any way male those characters less important for the party interaction. Morrigan's romance isn't more important or better realized than Leliana's, just because Morrigan is needed for the main plot and Leliana isn't.

There is absolutely no reason why only Ashley would be a squad mate or LI in ME3 and Tali not, just because Tali can die in ME2. It only means that Tali won't be necessary for the main plot, while Ashley may be. It's just two different things. Why is that so hard to grasp?

This, you can play DAO with only 3 party members (Oghern joins you first, but you can make him leave) The point is it's poseable to never have Sten, Zev, Shale, Leliana, Wynn and Oghern in your party yet they where fully voiced, had alot of dialog, some where LI, they had personal quest, own unqiue gifts and so own. People who say they will be cameos because they can die makes no sence because in DAO you can beat the game only with Alistair/Loghain and Morrigan.

[Azorgamer]

Please, no more squadmates.

We have enough - just focus on making the current ones as cool as possible. Most people saved a bunch if not all of their squad in ME2 - let's keep making the story of those characters deeper. I want more Mordin, Jack, Samara, Grunt, Garrus, Tali, Ashely/Kaidan, Liara, Miranda, Thane, Zaeed, Legion, Wrex, Joker, Dr. Chakwas, Jacob, and Kasumi (yes, she's not part of the squad yet but she seems like a cool character).

If you chose to kill off almost all of your squad then you get penalized - that means you get less characters to work with as squadmates in ME3. That's the point of a suicide mission - if people die then you don't just get new characters to fill their boots in ME3 - if that's the case then why all the frakkin' hoopla about a suicide mission. Also, most of the people that killed off most of the squad did it on purpose so that they could have a different experience in ME3 - not so they could just get those characters replaced and the game continue as if those deaths had no meaning whatsoever.

In another forum I posted it would be cool to have a Spectre squadmate for ME3 but that's only if new squadmates are forced on us.

If I could have my wish it would be no new squadmates whatsoever - lets work with the ones we have and deepen their stories.

[BatarianBob]

adam_grif wrote...

Spoilers:
Characters that could die in ME2 won't play major roles in ME3. We'll be lucky to see more than 3 characters returning, and you can bet your ass that 2/3 will be Tali and Garrus. If most of the crew died in ME2, you can't just play the game with your 2 surviving squadmates. You'll have to have more squadmates to fill the void, and if they're creating a bunch of new squadmates, it's unlikely they will have more than a couple return from the past game.

I don't think the word "spoilers" means what you think it means.

Unless you were being facetious.  In that case, carry on.

[tertium organum]

"Just look at Dragon Age!" OK, why not look at ME2? The heck? ME2 is a continuation of a series. Dragon Age is an introductory story not a sequel. We have an idea of how Bioware will handle transfers in sequels. Referencing a standalone game that is different in mechanics and moreover the first game in a series in order to show that a sequel will write involved plots for potentially dead characters is mind-boggling. If Dragon Age Origins was a sequel done by Bioware then by all means but ME2 is a direct sequel to their ME franchise which is a pretty clear template of how they plan to deal with these issues. Similarly, referencing older games (BG2) that lacked the technological complexity of the ME games is equally a bad argument.

Whatever though. I really do hope your blind faith is rewarded ( it'll certainly make ME3 better for me) but I'll be chuckling to myself when war erupts in the next year or so. "But it doesn't make any sense! I saved them! We need more again? WTF." Or E3 this year if they reveal what they're doing. Again, I'd happily be wrong about this but we have every indication that they're going to introduce new characters and regulate most of the crew to side cameos.

Modifié par tertium organum, 19 mars 2010 - 11:28 .

[adam_grif]

Taranatar9 wrote...


Unless you were being facetious.  In that case, carry on.

Of course.

Just look at Dragon Age

Just look at it's expansion pack. One recurring character.

Modifié par adam_grif, 19 mars 2010 - 11:32 .

[Garlador]

It makes no SENSE for certain characters who survived the suicide mission to abandon you, especially with their knowledge of the upcoming Reaper and Collector threats. Garrus confesses Shepard's practically his only real friend, Tali's name is "vas Normandy" and she could be exiled with no other home, Samara swore an oath to follow you, etc.



For ME3, we have a pool of over 15 ex-party members to choose from. It's simply ridiculous to assume NONE of them would return as party members or that only Liara would return (and quite frankly I'm not too fond of her.) Will all of them return with major roles? Probably not. Will there be some new characters? Very likely. But at this point, it would be very disconcerting to spend all of ME1 and ME2 with Garrus and Tali by my side only to have them sit out the final hurrah for some arbitrarily contrived reason.

[adam_grif]

It makes no SENSE for certain characters who survived the suicide mission to abandon you, especially with their knowledge of the upcoming Reaper and Collector threats.

It didn't in ME1 either, but then Bioware ASSUMED DIRECT CONTROL and forced the plot to dance to the arbitrary tune it was playing by killing Shepard off and fast forwarding two years.

Garrus confesses Shepard's practically his only real friend, Tali's name is "vas Normandy" and she could be exiled with no other home, Samara swore an oath to follow you, etc.

Right, and they're extremely popular characters who will probably return. Mordin might die from old age, Legion might finish building a consensus and decide that he's needed elsewhere, Miri's dad might catch up with her, Thane might not get cured and also be dead, Wrex might decide that he needs grunt as a PR thing for Clan Urdnot, Zaeed and Kasumi's contracts have expired, and so on.



****, maybe the SR2 docks in the Citadel and C-Sec decides to compound it and arrests your crew for being Cerberus operatives. If Bioware wants something done, it will be done.

Probably not. Will there be some new characters? Very likely. But at this point, it would be very disconcerting to spend all of ME1 and ME2 with Garrus and Tali by my side only to have them sit out the final hurrah for some arbitrarily contrived reason.

The only crew members from ME1 that didn't have a contrived excuse for not rejoining you are the one that died and Wrex (either for also being dead, or for being leader of Clan Urdnot). I don't doubt that every single one of the surviving characters will make an appearance in ME3, but squadmember status is unlikely for all but the most popular characters (Legion, Mordin, etc).

[Garlador]

adam_grif wrote...

The only crew members from ME1 that didn't have a contrived excuse for not rejoining you are the one that died and Wrex (either for also being dead, or for being leader of Clan Urdnot). I don't doubt that every single one of the surviving characters will make an appearance in ME3, but squadmember status is unlikely for all but the most popular characters (Legion, Mordin, etc).

Yes, you just summarized what I said. Popular characters will likely return as squadmates, some will have tertiary roles, and new characters (like Kolyat) might replace old ones (like Thane). Of course some would have cameos. It would be EXTREMELY awkward if important characters weren't so much as referenced. I mean, bland-man Kaiden gets plenty of mention even though I left him to fry on Virmire, and if he gets that much name dropping, I can only imagine other characters will have plenty of exposure.

[-Becky-]

Now this will be a big spoiler folks. This is a picture I just found with Ashley returhning with a new suit and her hair down. Along with Hudson talking about the squadmates returing. Don't always build your hopes up, because their still progressing.




For a more bigger image, copy and paste this in your window.  -http://gamegasm.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/img043-2.jpg

Modifié par -Becky-, 20 avril 2011 - 11:53 .