125 réponses à ce sujet

[Jagrevi]

nukeboy1970 wrote...

Could some one please explain to me why people are complaining about being to import your dead character? 

The main character sacrificing themselves is still canon.  That never changed.  That is why an Orlesian Warden was sent in. 

That's not the complaint, the complaint is that if you're a dead warden, everything ELSE is no longer cannon.

For example, if Alistair is dead - he magically comes back to life and becomes the King.

I don't mean he "actually" magically comes back to life and becomes the king, I mean he'll just go strolling up to you as the king, despite the fact that he DIED, and no one will even bat an eye.

[LoneFullmetal]

nukeboy1970 wrote...

Could some one please explain to me why people are complaining about being to import your dead character? 

The main character sacrificing themselves is still canon.  That never changed.  That is why an Orlesian Warden was sent in. 

Bioware setup the option to use the original character because people would whine about it if they didn't.  You (the player) are given the option to ignore continuity.  That doesn't mean that Bioware thinks you should ignore continuity.  The developers pretty much said as much.  You are given an OPTION.

If your character died, just don't do an import.  Simple as that.  Why complain about it?

If your character died and you don't import him & play as him all the things he did won't transfer, there is no option for that like you say... that's exactly what there isn't from what I've read.

Show me something that proves your character's decisions come over if you don't play as him.

[LoneFullmetal]

mrfoo1 wrote...

@lonefullmetal

I can understand wanting to see the continuation of a story. But without importing the character that is a very tall task design wise as the question becomes how do you get that story which is varying and individual into the game without having a questionnaire at the start of the Orlesian Warden. And adding something like that really only detracts from the fact that the Orlesian Warden themself is an individual person that had nothing to do with DA:O. Whomever is King or Queen won't matter to the Orlesian Warden. Same for a great many of the choices made in DA:O. The Orlesian Warden would and should only care that the AD is dead.

There are also times in Origins where the game will outrightly tell you that you what the main story arc should be. IE: Ridoran telling you he will take the final blow. If he dies then the Origins Warden will do it. Even tho Alistair would be the second oldest Warden and it should go to him. Alistair is ment to be King, Eamons dialogue more then proves that, and thusly the game doesn't really consider Alistair a Grey Warden after that decision.

As for bringing back the dead warden that's up to the user as Bioware said "If the player doesn't have an issue with it neither do we." but that's semantics. Really Importing a character never should have been an option for DA:A.

The decisions of the Warden in DA:O were important for all of Thedas though, not just Fereldon, and they determine what characters you encounter and their roles in Awakening.

It isn't any taller of a task then making it so you can import a character that lived and having him effect who you encouter (which they've already done), at most it would be just like that, but with Orlesian Warden being playable instead of superzombiejesus

I guess they could have just made Awakening a seperate game like you suggest, not affected by Origins & no character importing, but that makes it so all the time we spent and all the choices we made in Origins were pointless, they might as well just give up on dragon Age then and start a new series...

Jagrevi wrote...

nukeboy1970 wrote...

Could some one please explain to me why people are complaining about being to import your dead character? 

The main character sacrificing themselves is still canon.  That never changed.  That is why an Orlesian Warden was sent in. 

That's not the complaint, the complaint is that if you're a dead warden, everything ELSE is no longer cannon.

For example, if Alistair is dead - he magically comes back to life and becomes the King.

I
don't mean he "actually" magically comes back to life and becomes the
king, I mean he'll just go strolling up to you as the king, despite the
fact that he DIED, and no one will even bat an eye.

I never wanted Dragon Age to become a joke, but it sounds like it's turning into one

Can't wait for the sequel, Dragon Age Origins Awakening II: Rereturn of Super Magic Zombie Jesus.

Modifié par LoneFullmetal, 20 mars 2010 - 09:43 .

[Trefalen]

LoneFullmetal wrote...
EXACTLY!

I don't understand Bioware, why don't they do it that way? It's not an impossible task, and everyone like you or me has already come up with the idea, so it's not so hard to grasp.

It doesn't seem they have an excuse, other then laziness. <_<

The best thing they could do is keep all their current options, even the "fu-ck logic" option, and add the option others want as well.

One name should be remembered when making judgements.

ELECTRONIC ARTS!

Bioware is not their own boss anymore.  If DA:A feels rushed and thrown together, it probably was. The word came down, and out it went. It must be terrible to work hard and be proud of how your creation is going, only to push it out the door knowing it is no where near ready. I wish Jeff Strain was lead dev on DA, then it would truly be a dream game (former lead on Guild wars).

Rumor about DA2, the lead character is called Ben Dover.

Modifié par Trefalen, 20 mars 2010 - 10:01 .

[Karmianna]

Moogliepie wrote...

1) They announced that DLC wouldn't transfer over. You should have known.

Response: Vogons. Hyperspace bypass. Google it. 

2) What's the big deal? You will get better armor 2 hours into the game.

Response: The same applies to all armor that carries over. The big deal is that when you start the game in your underwear because of a budget cutback, it immediately destroys the sense of immersion. What made DA:O great was the feeling of being lost in the world of Ferelden. It's hard to get back that feeling when there are so many glaringly obvious budget decisions you encounter in the first half hour of Awakenings.

3) About the continuity, what about Minsc in Baldur's Gate 2? 

Response: Baldur's Gate 2 was a sequel, not an expansion pack. That was also ten years ago .

4) Just because ME2 provided all this continuity, you shouldn't expect the same from Awakenings.

Response: Like above, ME2 was a sequel. They raised the bar for continuity between sequels, for sure, but Awakenings is still to be compared to other expansion packs. RPG expansion packs tend to be fully integrated into the original game, in addition to adding content on to it. It was not unreasonable to expect an expansion pack to offer greater integration and continuity.

5) This wasn't billed as an expansion, it's a separate game. 

Response: What does it say at the top of this box?

6) Why do you care so much to complain on these boards? It's just a game. 

Response: Why do you care that I care? 

It sucks pretty bad as an expansion and even worse as a new game.
Shame on you Bioware/EA

[Realmzmaster]

Someone mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind, Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive definition of an expansion?

[JaegerBane]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Someone mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind, Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive definition of an expansion?

Basically a game that uses the same engine and resources as the base game, but expands the experience with new stuff. That's pretty much all it is. A lot of people on here are coming up with custom definitions like 'it has to integrate into the old campaign' or 'you can visit it at any time'.

[CybAnt1]

On the whole continuity thing ...



The whole Alistair (or Anora) riding up to say "hai too busy doing king/queen stuf & bai" feels more like filler than anything else. But whatever, it helps "bridge" the game.



Re-encountering Wynne was interesting, but I wish she could have at least be a TEMP companion rather than just a questgiver. I mean, I know her dreams, I know something about her that many don't (that her days are numbered because only a spirit is keeping her alive), and she's just a questgiver to me.



I wouldn't have minded just one tiny bit of text saying why Dog wasn't there. Even if just to let me know he died, or is hanging out in the kennels, or left with Sten, or whatever. For Human Nobles to be separated from Dog this way is even stranger. Our bond was supposed to be lifelong.



Also just one tiny bit of text mentioning Morrigan, and that we're still thinking of her ... whether we parted as friends, or lovers, or future co-parents.



And finally, if you romanced Zev or Leli, the only note you'll get about that is in your epilogue, where you do come back to them. After zero mention of them in the game. Not even a letter from them saying "I miss you".



It coulda been done better. I think.

[Karmianna]

CybAnt1 wrote...

On the whole continuity thing ...

The whole Alistair (or Anora) riding up to say "hai too busy doing king/queen stuf & bai" feels more like filler than anything else. But whatever, it helps "bridge" the game.

Re-encountering Wynne was interesting, but I wish she could have at least be a TEMP companion rather than just a questgiver. I mean, I know her dreams, I know something about her that many don't (that her days are numbered because only a spirit is keeping her alive), and she's just a questgiver to me.

I wouldn't have minded just one tiny bit of text saying why Dog wasn't there. Even if just to let me know he died, or is hanging out in the kennels, or left with Sten, or whatever. For Human Nobles to be separated from Dog this way is even stranger. Our bond was supposed to be lifelong.

Also just one tiny bit of text mentioning Morrigan, and that we're still thinking of her ... whether we parted as friends, or lovers, or future co-parents.

And finally, if you romanced Zev or Leli, the only note you'll get about that is in your epilogue, where you do come back to them. After zero mention of them in the game. Not even a letter from them saying "I miss you".

It coulda been done better. I think.

Well said. 
The game developers tossed out the baby with the bath water. The very things that made Origins so fun they left out in awakenings. The game was so disappointing on so many levels.
You can hardly call it an expansion when it actually narrows the things you can do.

[Wolfster68]

TBH it was a let down.No resolution to some loose ends from origins.I mean nothing much about morrigan or the baby not to mention leliana from one play through.And when importing a character that made the sacrifice and died in origins.No mention of a resurrection or a tie in with leliana where she said the make told her she would be with her love again.I mean jeez it could have taken a couple of the plot points from origins and at least gave some sort of closer or explanation.

The limited amount of areas was somewhat disappointing .So was the lack of interaction with the companions and other npcs.I wasn't pulled into the game like origins.I likely wont bother with another play through even with a character imported from a different play through because it doesn't really seem to matter.

[LoneFullmetal]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Someone mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind, Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive definition of an expansion?

Actually the morrowind & Oblivion ones were fully intergrated, things you did in the main game affected the expansions in morrowind at least (and vis versa), I never got all the way through Oblivion's expansion though. Your character's weapons & armor carried over in those too, even if they were DLC or even modded in.

An expansion expands upon the game itself, not just the story.

JaegerBane wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Someone
mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the
game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights,
Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind,
Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were
still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive
definition of an expansion?

Basically a game that
uses the same engine and resources as the base game, but expands
the experience with new stuff. That's pretty much all it is. A lot of
people on here are coming up with custom definitions like 'it has to
integrate into the old campaign' or 'you can visit it at any time'.

Many sequels do that, do you consider those expansions?

Modifié par LoneFullmetal, 21 mars 2010 - 02:45 .

[L33TDAWG]

QuixoticRogan wrote...

I agree with the original posts points to a lot of this, but like most people replying to the thread I'm going to give my two cents on the matter.

I don't really care for the sequel vs. expansion, because in my opinion, given all the expansions and sequels for various games I've played, this is neither. This is just a big chunk of DLC. To give Awakenings either title seems unfitting honestly, because I see a SIGNIFICANT difference in quality, additions, gameplay development and refining, and length between this and any other sequel/expansion I've played from any other developing studio. Also, before splitting hairs about 'WELL THIS ISN'T THOSE STUDIOS THIS IS BIOWARE," Bioware, in my opinion, is a much more capable and respectable group than these groups and yet they were capable of successfully pulling off previously stated traits to their expansions and sequels. With Bioware's reputation, and examples of their standards to quality, to call it a sequel, or even an expansion, is a very notable low on their part.

Despite how critical the previous statement sounded, I put it out there with the hopes that it will be read and their next work reworked and improved as a result and nothing more. My philosophy with most games is "I paid for it, so I'm going to find whatever fun is in it and enjoy it as much as humanly possible." That way I still can enjoy the game, and not really flip out and be upset about the price I paid or what went wrong. Despite its many shortcomings, whether you wish to debate it or not, I found more than enough things that I could enjoy in the game that I felt satisfied about the price I paid. I understand that it is a business, and the goal is ultimately to make a profit, but I don't honestly care about the logistics or details regarding such things. I just want a fun game to pass some time with and put in my criticisms with the hope I'll find the next more enjoyable.

So, from my perspective, Bioware delivered what I paid for as I found enjoyment worth the price, but that doesn't mean I'm not disappointed with what they had to offer given their usual level of quality. I hope to see much better work in the future as it's made me a tad hesitant to continue supporting them.

The game wasn't worth the price imo. I loved it, but by the time i got any real bad ass gear and the money to fill up the slots it was over. I agree it was just a bigger DLC that was hyped too much. One reason why I think so is because of the fact that none of your actions in DA:O affected anything.Though your treasurer does mention The Keep you recover for the Drydens and that's all.

[Karmianna]

Wolfster68 wrote...

TBH it was a let down.No resolution to some loose ends from origins.I mean nothing much about morrigan or the baby not to mention leliana from one play through.And when importing a character that made the sacrifice and died in origins.No mention of a resurrection or a tie in with leliana where she said the make told her she would be with her love again.I mean jeez it could have taken a couple of the plot points from origins and at least gave some sort of closer or explanation.
The limited amount of areas was somewhat disappointing .So was the lack of interaction with the companions and other npcs.I wasn't pulled into the game like origins.I likely wont bother with another play through even with a character imported from a different play through because it doesn't really seem to matter.

Exactly how I feel. I played every race/class variation in DAO. I have no interest to do so in Awakening. I am very disappointed. I was anxiously waiting to be immersed in the story again. There just is no substance here. The story has promise but it was poorly told.  

[Realmzmaster]

LoneFullmetal wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Someone mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind, Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive definition of an expansion?

Actually the morrowind & Oblivion ones were fully intergrated, things you did in the main game affected the expansions in morrowind at least (and vis versa), I never got all the way through Oblivion's expansion though. Your character's weapons & armor carried over in those too, even if they were DLC or even modded in.

An expansion expands upon the game itself, not just the story.

JaegerBane wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Someone
mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the
game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights,
Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind,
Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were
still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive
definition of an expansion?

Basically a game that
uses the same engine and resources as the base game, but expands
the experience with new stuff. That's pretty much all it is. A lot of
people on here are coming up with custom definitions like 'it has to
integrate into the old campaign' or 'you can visit it at any time'.

Many sequels do that, do you consider those expansions?

What I meant by somewhat integrated is that the balance issues were a joke. If you started Morrowind and then jump to Tribunal, the gear from Tribunal was way overpowered. You get attacked by the assassins. You beat them. The armor and weapons they have will let you cakewalk through the first half of Morrowind if you immediately went back. Your character would hardly break a sweat. Also Bloodmoon really had nothing to do with the OC of Morrowind. It was a nice place to visit.
At least Tribunal let you see what happen to the other two gods, but had no real ramifications on the OC except for a few new sentences by Vivec
Tribunal and Bloodmoon were basically isolated from the OC in Morrowind. Your decisions in the expansion did not  really affect anything in the OC, but they were still considered expansions.
Which brings me back to the original question What is the definitive definition of an expansion?
Let me take a stab at a defintion:
An expansion is an add-on that can add new game areas, weapons, objects, and/or an extended storyline, but not necessarily the continuation of the storyline of the original game.

Now by definition a sequel is a work that chronologically portrays events following those of a previous work.
Now DA2 if it is to be a sequel I would expect it to pick up from the events of DA:O.
What do others think?

[Trefalen]

It seems many feel like DA:O was a book/movie and DA:A was based on it.. it's never the same.. *sigh*

[dbkkk]

jennamarae wrote...

So... It's somehow my fault that people here jump to conclusions and get defensive over nothing?

Isn't jumping to conclusions what posting on the Internet is all about?

[jennamarae]

dbkkk wrote...

Isn't jumping to conclusions what posting on the Internet is all about?

*smacks her forehead with her palm*

Duh! You're absolutely right, that is what it's all about. Silly me forgot. Oh well, no matter. Won't happen again, I promise!

[Jagrevi]

LoneFullmetal wrote...
I never wanted Dragon Age to become a joke, but it sounds like it's turning into one

Can't wait for the sequel, Dragon Age Origins Awakening II: Rereturn of Super Magic Zombie Jesus.

I have to agree that in the most relevant ways, Dragon Age seems to be going down the wrong path.

Don't get me wrong, there's tons of other things they do magnificently - but the most important aspect of Bioware games that makes them stand out - persistent worlds with impactful choice - they seem to be losing their way on.

I think we have to accept DA:A for what it is. It's ... hard, and feels like a huge slap in the face in many ways, but at the end of the day we're either onboard or not, and Dragon Age means too much to me to abandon it over a mis-step in how they've been equating character death to what ammounts to player-death. (They're doing it in Mass Effect too, although not as badly. But for "Dead Shepards", there is no Mass Effect 3 - it's the end of the series, or you could try again to get a "real" ending. They claim it's to make death "more" meaningful, but really it makes it FAR LESS meaningful; it just turns it into a game-over screen they didn't have the curtosy of letting me know was a 'game over'.)

I have no hope at this point that Awakening will be "fixed". It performs exactly as it's suppose to - it's just that something in it's basic design was egregiously uncool.

At this point, all I can really do is hope that Bioware realizes why what they did pissed off a bunch of people, and simple say that the dev team will keep that in mind for future content.

Modifié par Jagrevi, 21 mars 2010 - 05:34 .

[Corvus Black]

Jagrevi wrote...

LoneFullmetal wrote...
I never wanted Dragon Age to become a joke, but it sounds like it's turning into one

Can't wait for the sequel, Dragon Age Origins Awakening II: Rereturn of Super Magic Zombie Jesus.

I have to agree that in the most relevant ways, Dragon Age seems to be going down the wrong path.

Don't get me wrong, there's tons of other things they do magnificently - but the most important aspect of Bioware games that makes them stand out - persistent worlds with impactful choice - they seem to be losing their way on.

I think we have to accept DA:A for what it is. It's ... hard, and feels like a huge slap in the face in many ways, but at the end of the day we're either onboard or not, and Dragon Age means too much to me to abandon it over a mis-step in how they've been equating character death to what ammounts to player-death. (They're doing it in Mass Effect too, although not as badly. But for "Dead Shepards", there is no Mass Effect 3 - it's the end of the series, or you could try again to get a "real" ending. They claim it's to make death "more" meaningful, but really it makes it FAR LESS meaningful; it just turns it into a game-over screen they didn't have the curtosy of letting me know was a 'game over'.)

I have no hope at this point that Awakening will be "fixed". It performs exactly as it's suppose to - it's just that something in it's basic design was egregiously uncool.

At this point, all I can really do is hope that Bioware realizes why what they did pissed off a bunch of people, and simple say that the dev team will keep that in mind for future content.

well said. i agree completely with this post.

[Trefalen]

Jagrevi wrote...
I think we have to accept DA:A for what it is.

Could be.. Just read this..

www.vancouversun.com/business/Electronic+Arts+falls+after+outlook+disappoints/2537848/story.html

Modifié par Trefalen, 21 mars 2010 - 08:13 .

[Tellervo]

13Dannyboy13 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe that at the end of Origins in the epilogue it states that the companions went their separate ways. For example , Shale went either to Tevinter or back to the Deep Roads. Sten went home. Zev and Wynne went traveling. Morrigan is off somewhere in Frostback mountains etc. So why would they be with your warden in Awakenings?
As far as items transferring, I had no problem with either Stone Prisioner or RTO items. The only item I care even remotely about from WK was Starfang.
As far as continuity, do not really care. I play for entertainment value and it makes for a fun diversion.
But, YMMV

That's true for some of the companions, but not all, for example Leliana says she's going to stay with my warden and help rebuild the grey wardens, yet in the expansion while you do exactly that she's nowhere to be seen. Not that it's a big deal, just a hole in the story, kinda funny how that happened that the one person who said they would stay didn't.
I just want my dog back.

Also the case with Zevran.  If he likes you enough, he'll stay with you to rebuild the Wardens.  According to your dialogue with him and the epilogue card from Origins, but clearly Origins didn't happen, except for the whole blight thing.

Any acknowledgment whatsoever of the companions' existence would be nice.  They don't have to be present.  It could just be Oghren going, "Hey, where's so-and-so (romance partner)?  It's too quiet at night.  Got so used to the racket that I can't sleep now."

[13Dannyboy13]

One thing I would've liked to see in the expansion is it being more integrated with the original game. It would've been nice to have the new abilities available to use on a new character in origins, obviously they couldn't make the weapons and armor available because they would be overpowered, but the new abilities and the respec tome would've been nice.

I really hope that in the sequel the choices you make have more of an impact on the game, like the storyline branching off in different directions depending on choices made by the player, different quests being available depending on the type of character you make (good/bad etc). The choices in origins didn't really have the feel of changing things in the overall world, just two ways to do pretty much the same thing. Little things like that really add to the game and I hope that the sequel will include some of those.

[Wolfster68]

Trefalen wrote...

It seems many feel like DA:O was a book/movie and DA:A was based on it.. it's never the same.. *sigh*

It's almost like they skimmed or fast forwarded through origins then tried to make a spinoff
It does seem like they had the end all planned out and rushed for the
rest .While someone was in a frenzy to get it done now they left out far
to many elements and spent all the time and money on the hype.

I do have another theory.
They had everything planned to the smallest detail and when the writer rushed it to the programmers they tripped over dog and lost half the notes.The writer then run what they had left to the prgrammers and said dog ate it.So they worked with what was left and left dog out because he caused the problem lol

[JaegerBane]

LoneFullmetal wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Someone
mentioned that expansion packs are usually fully integrated into the
game world. This statement is not entirely true. Neverwinter Nights,
Neverwinter Nights 2 and its expansions were not integrated. Morrowind,
Oblivion and its expansions were integrated somewhat. All of them were
still called expansions. So I still ask What is the definitive
definition of an expansion?

Basically a game that
uses the same engine and resources as the base game, but expands
the experience with new stuff. That's pretty much all it is. A lot of
people on here are coming up with custom definitions like 'it has to
integrate into the old campaign' or 'you can visit it at any time'.

Many sequels do that, do you consider those expansions?

I don't remember the last sequel I played that required the original game to be installed. Normally sequels go through at least an engine upgrade.