251 réponses à ce sujet

[joey_mork84]

Unlike trolls, I do use my brain and actually paid attention in elementary school. Your argument was lost before it began, that has been proven over and over in this thread if you cared (or could) read. Now, having said that, I leave this thread to the trolls such, as yourself, that can't see the world as it is, but are shrouded in the fantasy set firmly in your mind. I honestly don't believe even years of therapy would help you, given your lack of common sense and the immense God-complex you suffer from. Now, good day to you, Ser Troll.

Note to any moderators lurking about or who may actually stumble across this thread: Sorry you missed all the fun

[Bullets McDeath]

I love how on this board, "troll" means "person who does not share my opinion". Talk about linguistic drift. That's not even weighing in on people who post in poorly punctuated stream-of-consciousness lecturing others about proper use of English. I want to launch this thread into space, so hopefully an intelligent civilization will discover it and decide to destroy us.

Modifié par outlaworacle, 20 mars 2010 - 07:21 .

[Bullets McDeath]

Wow, Mavia. I didn't realize they let people use the internet from Mental Hospitals!! You're still going on about how a "pair of shoes" is 4 shoes... this is supposed to demonstrate the power of your argument? An obvious logical fallacy a 5 year old can see through?

[Obtusifolius]

joey_mork84 wrote...

Unlike trolls, I do use my brain and actually paid attention in elementary school. Your argument was lost before it began, that has been proven over and over in this thread if you cared (or could) read. Now, having said that, I leave this thread to the trolls such, as yourself, that can't see the world as it is, but are shrouded in the fantasy set firmly in your mind. I honestly don't believe even years of therapy would help you, given your lack of common sense and the immense God-complex you suffer from. Now, good day to you, Ser Troll.

Note to any moderators lurking about or who may actually stumble across this thread: Sorry you missed all the fun

So was I mistaken in my corrections of your previous post? Yes or no?

Aw, I think it's... yes, isn't it? Yes, it is. I'm so sorry, my poor little chap, your pride must be mortally wounded. No wonder you are fleeing in a hurry.

Fare well, my love! I shall miss thee!

[Obtusifolius]

Maviarab wrote...

*Laugh's very heartily*.......
Quoting dictionaries again Obs? tsk, thought we had gone past that by now...

I suggest you actually (and maybe you too Outlaw) the English language and how little sense it makes.

I will use small words, and I will try to write slowly so you can follow me. I do not give a crap about what is in a dictionary, as I can probably find with ease 15 other online dictionaries that contradict yours. So it means nothing. And that has been stated before by another poster.

Shoe is singular (we both got one), shoes is the plural (you got that too, excellent)....a 'pair' references 2 of an item, so we have my answer. And it is not 4 shoes, it is 4 shoe (as shoe is the singular).
I really do suggest you look more into this. The fact that 'we as English users know what the term 'a pair of shoes means', does not (like your golem) mean it is actually correct. It is very bad Englisyh that over the years has been allowed to slip and become part of everyday life. And yes actually, the same argument does apply to pants, though there is no singular for pants, a 'pair' would imply (in correct English remember) that you have actually bought 2 of the item.

Seriously Obs, I thought you were a linguistics expert, its not rocket science

The very fact that you say, why not 5 6 or whatever, shows you do not truly understand the words and their meaning and context. Again, the fact that is has become a common phrase, makes it right not.

Oh, and please stop searing, or threatenijng, and really does show ones lack of intelligence and grasp of the English language when you cannot articulate yourself by any other manner.

Ha ha, you're funny. You're also grievously mistaken, and STILL making an ass of yourself. You do have stamina, don't you? I'm afraid you are wrong about everything you say about plurals. Please see my previous post. If you cannot understand then I give up.

And please, stop blathering about swearing. Who told you it shows an inability to express oneself articulately? There is an example of blindly believing what you are told. Please, follow your own advice and think for yourself. Here's another perspective:

Modifié par Obtusifolius, 20 mars 2010 - 07:30 .

[Obtusifolius]

Maviarab wrote...

*Laugh's very heartily*.......
Quoting dictionaries again Obs? tsk, thought we had gone past that by now...

And I didn't quote a dictionary, fool. I'll take that as a compliment, though

Also, please do find 15 online dictionaries that contradict me. I would sincerely love to see just one. I was not quoting from a dictionary, I was speaking from my own knowledge. I know... hard to imagine, isn't it?

Edit: Oh, and I have not once threatened anyone. The nearest thing to a threat I made was predicting that I may soon vomit or turn bald if exposed to much more of this rampant idiocy.

Modifié par Obtusifolius, 20 mars 2010 - 07:31 .

[DragonRageGT]

Maviarab wrote...

mispronounced according to who exactly? Did you invent the word?
Jesus, people will moan and **** about anything these days....


And lol to bass for quoting wiki hehe....the info site any 5 year old idiot and his pet gerbil can edit......real accurate source of info hehe

Lol Mav, but Wiki's are made in good faith and sometimes they are helpful too, although they can be wrong or not that accurate.

I won't get into the plural thing because it's not my language but I'd take the word of an educated British over a Texan or some Obtuse person any day. (No offense meant to Texans but hey, at least Britishs sound a lot better and no one can deni that they were speaking and studying the language long before any other!)

As for the pronounciation, before I went to the UK for the first time, long ago, there was this magazine, Speak Up, that was meant to help us to learn the English a bit. In it, an article from an Oxford professor stated that: "No one can know the right pronounciation of a word in the English language unless it has been heard first." And to prove that he gave us the word GHOTI.

How do you pronouce GHOTI? -  If you didn't answer FISH you are wrong.
GH as in enough
O as in women
TI as in nation

Then, in UK, I had to take the train to Henley-on-Thames, via Twyford and I asked for a ticket to "Twai-ford". The seller at his cabin laughed: "Ro-ro-ro, it is Twee-ford" ... then inside the train, the man comes to mark my ticket and asks me where am I going to. "ah-ra, this time I know!" I thought: "I'm going to Twee-ford"! And the man... "ro-ro-ro, it is Twai-ford"! ... man, was I happy when I found out that the late night train had no cabin to sell tickets and no one to mark them?  As of today, I have no idea where was I going to!  =)

Hmmm, actually I will get into the plural thing as well, since it is pretty much the same  in any western language, afaik.
A "pair of shoes" is immediatelly assocciated with two shoes anywhere, in any language I know, even those that do not use S to form the plural and I know a few, even if  just a little bit.

But that doesn't mean it is right. Only that it is so largely used that people doesn't think about what they are saying. "um sapato" "Una scarpa" "one shoe" clearly means one, be it the right or the left piece.

"um par de sapatoS" "un paio de scarpE" "a pair of shoeS" is accepted as being both left and right pieces. But in linguistic terms they are wrong. Not because of the plural determinant S -  or E in Italian. But because of the word "Pair". Pair always means TWO. So a Pair of a Plural word correctedly would mean more than two. Specifically four in the case of stuff that goes in pairs. Like shoes.

Why not five or six? Well, not five because it does not pass the math test. And not six unless we had 3 legs. I have but my third one does not use a shoe! It uses a Durex! (anyone besides Mav got that? hein? hein? hhauhauh)

Now, if you're talking "horseshoes", the right count would be eight and for thanators, it would be twelve. But since we're humans and our languages reflect our mistakes, it's generalized that "a pair of shoes" means two shoes, we acccept that for calculation purposes.

Like when Imelda Marcos fled the Philipinnes with over a hundred "pair of shoes". But it also works when someone charges me "a pair of Benjamin FranklinS" for something. Were I that much of a "cu-de-ferro", I'd end up paying four hundred bucks. But it could be worse, were I just Obtuse, I might end up paying FIVE or SIX!

[AlanC9]

Maviarab wrote...
Alan....when you say position, how do you mean? Do you mean career wise? I neither need a good education nor degree's in English to know how the language works (actually being and speaking English you understand) or to have the intelligence and open mindedness to realise and accept that a different pronunciation might be correct.

I meant your intellectual position. Under what circumstances can a pronunciation ever be deemed to be incorrect, if ever. 

[AlanC9]

Maviarab wrote...
I will use small words, and I will try to write slowly so you can follow me. I do not give a crap about what is in a dictionary, as I can probably find with ease 15 other online dictionaries that contradict yours.

I'd settle for one. You really have to stop the lying; it's undermining your credibility a bit.

[Dark Lilith]

Golem

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For other uses, see Golem (disambiguation).

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In Jewish folklore, a golem (גולם; English pronunciation: /ˈɡoʊləm/ GOH-ləm) is an animated anthropomorphic being created entirely from inanimate matter. In modern Hebrew the word golem literally means "rock," but can also mean "fool," "dumb," or even "stupid." It meant amorphous, unformed material in Psalms and medieval writing.[1]



The most famous golem narrative involves Judah Loew ben Bezalel, the late 16th century chief rabbi of Prague.

[Godak]

Elps wrote...

Godak wrote...

Elps wrote...

English pronunciation: GOH-ləm, which is exactly how DA:O pronounces it, is given in my hard copies of the Oxford English Dictionary.

Except...that ISN'T how the game pronounces it. At all. Not even a little bit.

Actually, it IS. This just goes to prove that we hear and speak words according to our own dialects. If I pronounce, "gollum", which is the way loads of people are referring to it, then the word does not sound like, "golem". GOH is a short sound, closer to the O in OFF. ləm is a short sound, closer to im. In your dialect this may sound more like "umm" I guess. 

Tomato/tomato

Again, it ISN'T.

"Goh" is pronounced like "go" in "goat", and "ə" is pronounced like the "a" in "comma" or "drama".

[Bllack Falcon]

Grimgor79 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

I've never heard it said other than how they say it in DA. Maybe that's why they have it mispronounced? Because a lot of people do?

 I think this could be partly true. Much like "potato" is pronounced differently depending on where you are, perhaps Golem is as well.

 Living in Eastern US, everyone I know pronounces it as Go-Lem. Perhaps the common pronunciation in the UK and other areas of the world is Gollum?

Nope, 'go-lem' in the UK too.  I thought the American pronunciation must be 'gollum' after playing DA:O lol

[DragonRageGT]

You know, there's an audio help here:
http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/golem

But there are two very different pronunciation there... if that's not good enough to let the game with its own...

And well, here's the game saying it many times  (watch it all! =). It's pretty correct, IMHO. LOTR's Gollum sounds a hell lot different. I know there are people tone-deaf for music, being a musician myself, but word-deaf... that's a new...

Modifié par RageGT, 20 mars 2010 - 11:04 .

[Bullets McDeath]

I pronounce it "Robotron" (roh-boh-trawn)

[Grimgor79]

Bllack Falcon wrote...

Grimgor79 wrote...

Kryyptehk wrote...

I've never heard it said other than how they say it in DA. Maybe that's why they have it mispronounced? Because a lot of people do?

 I think this could be partly true. Much like "potato" is pronounced differently depending on where you are, perhaps Golem is as well.

 Living in Eastern US, everyone I know pronounces it as Go-Lem. Perhaps the common pronunciation in the UK and other areas of the world is Gollum?

Nope, 'go-lem' in the UK too.  I thought the American pronunciation must be 'gollum' after playing DA:O lol

  Falcon, I wish it was, I really do. It made me smile everytime I heard Shale say it,  right or wrong I found it to be pretty cool.

 

[Ruhgar]

So after reading the rest of the thread I think we can establish :



The word golem as said in game was not mispronounced.



There is a codified book that describes how the writers and editors believe it should be pronounced. (Dictionary)



There are many ways to pronounce this word, some are sanctioned by the codified books and others are not.



Some people are unable to grasp the concept of thought versus spoken language.



Words and their meanings are completely subjective and are given meaning by collective consensus.



It has been amusing reading the efforts to pigeon hole everyone that does not conform to a completely arbitrary decision on pronunciation as "idiots" "morons" and "wankers" but sadly it has failed. Time to move on to more amusing things like playing the game itself.



/tips sword

[Gill Kaiser]

I don't understand Joey Mork's "shoes analogy". In what way is the phrase "a pair of shoes" a double plural? The word "pair" just indicates the fact that the specific number of shoes is two. The 's' at the end of shoes is the plural-maker.

[TheMufflon]

Ruhgar wrote...


There are many ways to pronounce this word, some are sanctioned by the codified books and others are not.

The same can be said of all words. That doesn't mean all of them are correct.

[TheMufflon]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

I don't understand Joey Mork's "shoes analogy".

Really? It's prefectly simple. He makes a completely absurd claim, that goes against the simplest of grammar and all semblance of common sense. He is obviously a troll, and the fact that people have seriously been discussing his claims means that if not a good one, then he atleast is a successful one.

[wolfcp]

I-D-err or I-D-uh

[Bathead]

240 some posts over the pronounciation of a word? Wow.

[Kekse2k]

*lol*...cookies to whoever can agree to disagree.

[Koralis]

Maviarab wrote...

Not moronic at all dear...a pair (plural) of shoes (plural again) would actually mean you have bought 4 shoe (in real correct English)....

Pair = 2
shoes = more than 1

A pair of shoes = 2
A pair of pairs = 4.
3 pairs of shoes = 6
A pair of shoe = incorrect grammer


A pair of eggs = 2
A pair of a baker's-dozen eggs = 26.


Pair is the same a one of the definitions of Brace

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/brace

15. pl. brace A pair of like things: three brace of partridges.

Note that it's plural again.  A plural noun only implies more than 1, it doesn't indicate a number, which is what brace and pair do.  Mixing singular and plural for the same noun is just wrong, which is why no one says a "pair of pant"