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Mispronunciation of "Golem"


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#51
wonko33

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Godak wrote...

wonko33 wrote...

In an interview, I heard some of the developers mispronounce the word "About" and say "Zed" for "Zee" also. What a bunch of hosers! ;)


That's not pronunciation. That's a different word for the same thing, like how cookie = biscuit.


"about" isn't, means same thing, spelled same way.

On the Golem thing, If Shale wan't to say it that way, I don't think it is wise for squishy things to say otherwise.

#52
booke63

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Maviarab wrote...
Now tell me, how are any of us to know that we have been told (and by told I include books etc) is actually 'correct'? Think about that one for a while. And yes I'm a wanker (thats not the point, name calling is so juvenile) but I am a very intelligent wanker, and not so dellusional, niave, or arrogant to think what i am told is necessarily correct.

Thanks for the discussion.


You tell 'em Maviarab!  And everyone else, you liste....ermmm...I mean.....don't listen?  What?

#53
k9medusa

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Shale can be a little "rock headed" at times

#54
Godak

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wonko33 wrote...

Godak wrote...

wonko33 wrote...

In an interview, I heard some of the developers mispronounce the word "About" and say "Zed" for "Zee" also. What a bunch of hosers! ;)


That's not pronunciation. That's a different word for the same thing, like how cookie = biscuit.


"about" isn't, means same thing, spelled same way.

On the Golem thing, If Shale wan't to say it that way, I don't think it is wise for squishy things to say otherwise.


I was talking about the "zed"/"zee" bit. The "about" thing is less "pronunciation" and more "dialect". That is how that group of people (Canadians) say that word. "Golem" is not an often used word, and the pronunciation cannot be said to vary from place to place. Goh-lem is correct, period, end of story.

#55
booke63

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wonko33 wrote...

Godak wrote...

wonko33 wrote...

In an interview, I heard some of the developers mispronounce the word "About" and say "Zed" for "Zee" also. What a bunch of hosers! ;)


That's not pronunciation. That's a different word for the same thing, like how cookie = biscuit.


"about" isn't, means same thing, spelled same way.

On the Golem thing, If Shale wan't to say it that way, I don't think it is wise for squishy things to say otherwise.


That's not how you pronounce "squishy!"  I supose you fail to properly prounounce "Shale" with the long "eeee" at the end too, right?  Cripes....

#56
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Thats exactly what I am saying Alan,

Why is it so hard for peeple to accept that different words are both spelled and pronounced differently depending on race, origin, country and what we are told.



On the argument of Golem, why is Boston not pronounced b(ow)ston? Why is a small village in this country called wymondham (pronounced windam) not actually pronounced as it is spelt?

You see my point now yes? If Golum is pronounced go-lem, then who am I, (or why do I have the right) to tell someone else how it should be pronounced, when in reality, I have no real frame of referance as I myself have only been 'told' how its pronounced? Again, who is to say that what 'I' have been told is actually correct?



And Godak, regadless of the context, I do not appreciate being called a wanker (even though I can be), maybe its a language thing again, may not seem that big of a deal to yourself?

#57
Godak

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Also: Mavi, no one called you a wanker. Read through the thread again.

#58
Drag0n-RD

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It is generally pronounced as "Go-lem", however I know I've heard it said as Gollum from somewhere else (no not the LOTR films). I had presumed it was a cause of "Mum vs Mom", though I rather like Mavis theory of "localization" of words.

#59
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haha Godak, we come from different countries, I know exactly how it was phrased and meant. Come over here and say it to anyone and see what response you get. like I said, may not be that big of a deal over there, lets drop it eh? :)

#60
booke63

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Maviarab wrote...

Thats exactly what I am saying Alan,
Why is it so hard for peeple to accept that different words are both spelled and pronounced differently depending on race, origin, country and what we are told.


My non-flippant response to this thread:  language is fluid over time, so it makes sense to try to standardize it even knowing the standards will change.  Of course having a "standard" creates by nature a hegemony at the least between proper and improper, right and wrong, etc, which we see in action in this thread.

Modifié par booke63, 19 mars 2010 - 06:51 .


#61
Godak

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Maviarab wrote...

haha Godak, we come from different countries, I know exactly how it was phrased and meant. Come over here and say it to anyone and see what response you get. like I said, may not be that big of a deal over there, lets drop it eh? :)


No, I'm not dropping it. It wasn't directed at you. Go read the f^_^cking post again. It was directed at leeboi, or whatever. Posted Image

#62
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Very good point booke, but why should we standardize things that make us unique to where we come from?

Of course, that question in itself can open up a whole can of political worms so probably best not to go there lol.



It comes down to imo, just because there is a general concencus on something, does not mean that concencus is necessarily right.....

#63
Obtusifolius

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Maviarab wrote...

Thats exactly what I am saying Alan,
Why is it so hard for peeple to accept that different words are both spelled and pronounced differently depending on race, origin, country and what we are told.

On the argument of Golem, why is Boston not pronounced b(ow)ston? Why is a small village in this country called wymondham (pronounced windam) not actually pronounced as it is spelt?
You see my point now yes? If Golum is pronounced go-lem, then who am I, (or why do I have the right) to tell someone else how it should be pronounced, when in reality, I have no real frame of referance as I myself have only been 'told' how its pronounced? Again, who is to say that what 'I' have been told is actually correct?

And Godak, regadless of the context, I do not appreciate being called a wanker (even though I can be), maybe its a language thing again, may not seem that big of a deal to yourself?


That's what we're talking about though, Mav... even taking into account accent and dialect, golem is pronounced 'go-lem'. If I were scottish, for example, I might pronounce it 'Gollum' because the diphthong 'oa' is often pronounced with something quite similar to a short 'o' sound in Scotland. However, this does not change the correct pronunciation of the word, because all 'oa' sounds in that part of the world can be pronounced that way. So a person would only, as things currently stand, be correct in pronouncing the word as 'Gollum' if their accent is one where all 'oa' diphthongs are pronounced with a short 'o'.

In Dragon Age, all the humans (or most of them) have southern English accents. In the southern English accent, the sound 'oa' is pronounced 'oa', and so that is why, even taking into account different accents, Dragon Age have got it wrong. Trust me.

And you're not a wanker ;)

Edit: But thanks a lot for calling me naive <_<

Modifié par Obtusifolius, 19 mars 2010 - 06:56 .


#64
Godak

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Also: Golem is not a common term. It would not be pronounced differently because of dialect.

#65
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Then apologies are in order....have edited my post.
Sorry, ill and tired....misread it :)

Please accept said apologies :) *goes to get his coat*

Modifié par Maviarab, 19 mars 2010 - 06:56 .


#66
pob14

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Wow, two or three people linked to Merriam's page, and apparently nobody read it.

It lists THREE "correct" pronunciations for "golem."

Personally, I've always used GO-lem for the Hebrew mythological creature, and I've never heard GOY-lem before, although that's Merriam's second listed pronunciation.  But there's no evidence there that the DA:O pronunciation is wrong.

Modifié par pob14, 19 mars 2010 - 07:01 .


#67
Godak

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*Makes everyone kiss and make up*



Alright! Anyway, as I was saying, golem really wouldn't be subject to the normal rules of dialect. People in the American Northeast often pronounce water as "watuh". However, when they see unfamiliar terms, they often end up pronouncing them correctly, as they have never heard them and they use the common linguistic skills taught to them in school to work out the pronunciation.

#68
Obtusifolius

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pob14 wrote...

Wow, two or three people linked to Merriam's page, and apparently nobody read it.

It lists THREE "correct" pronunciations for "golem."


Strangely, none of which are 'gollum' :whistle:

#69
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Lol pob, how can you have '3 correct' pronunciations?...thats just, sorry to say, not logical at all hehe

#70
Godak

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Obtusifolius wrote...

pob14 wrote...

Wow, two or three people linked to Merriam's page, and apparently nobody read it.

It lists THREE "correct" pronunciations for "golem."


Strangely, none of which are 'gollum' :whistle:


...And the other two are Hebrew and Yiddish, not English. Posted Image

#71
booke63

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Maviarab wrote...

Very good point booke, but why should we standardize things that make us unique to where we come from?
Of course, that question in itself can open up a whole can of political worms so probably best not to go there lol.

It comes down to imo, just because there is a general concencus on something, does not mean that concencus is necessarily right.....


Standards, at least within a country, are kind of necessary to assist in (if nothing else) in teaching pronunciation, grammer, usage, etc.  Of course it's always complicated because non-standard use of language is always going on anyway, not to mention regional accents or dialects within a country.  Standardizing anguage is messy I guess--a good thing in my opinion.

Now should there be standards across countries, for example, US, Canada, England?  Naw.  I don't think so.  However, if someone could sort out the dang cookie/biscuit problem between England and the US, we ALL would be MUCH better off :)

#72
Godak

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*Eats a biscuit*



*Eats a cookie*



Om nom nom....

#73
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hahahah booke.....I'm not going there....not going there at all lmao :)

#74
k9medusa

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I wanna a cookie with gravy! ;)

#75
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Now thats just wrong on so many levels k9 :)