109 réponses à ce sujet

[Pacifien]

The Harley Dude wrote...
I wish I had known that in my insanity play through. The time it takes to heal and regen shields is ridiculous as a soldier. Luckily I had reave which healed me in some cases.

That's why I like Energy Drain as well. I could be seeing the red veins of imminent death, but an Energy Drain will bring my shields back up again as I wait for my health regeneration to kick in again. Good alternative to Reave if you don't want to use Reave for whatever reason.

That's also why I linked to this thread the strategy guide list stickied on the forum, because I think the uses of medikits do get lost. Then again, I tend to get stingy when I get down to two medikits and I have more than half a mission left to suffer. This tends to happen often on the Collector Ship.

[Adokat]

Christina Norman wrote...

They are under used I'm considering removing the cooldown on first aid in ME3 to encourage more use of medkits.

I think that's an important first step, but like many people in this thread, I find that my main hang up with using medkits is the hoarding mentality that is common in many RPGs with items that are limited.  In the Final Fantasies games, for example, I have no problem using store-bought potions, but I never use the rare elixir items, so by the end of the game I'd have a stockpile of these useful items I never used.  

In Mass Effect 2, the player starts out with a very small supply of medkits, which sort of teaches him or her to hold on to these from the very beginning.  By the time they've been upgraded to restore health/shields, the player is already accustomed to using them as sparingly as possible. When a player gets into a sticky situation and is near death, the idea to use a medkit may not happen.  Getting 100 credits for each surplus pickup also offers another incentive to hold on to them.

I like the idea of having your supply reset each mission, balanced perhaps by having less storage and/or fewer pickups per mission.  By limiting their supply, the decision to use a medkit would still feel important, but there wouldn't be that hangup of worrying about running out.  

I'm not sure if the same reasoning should apply to Heavy Weapons, but that's for another topic.

[Titanium Man]

Adokat wrote...

Christina Norman wrote...

They are under used I'm considering removing the cooldown on first aid in ME3 to encourage more use of medkits.

I think that's an important first step, but like many people in this thread, I find that my main hang up with using medkits is the hoarding mentality that is common in many RPGs with items that are limited.  In the Final Fantasies games, for example, I have no problem using store-bought potions, but I never use the rare elixir items, so by the end of the game I'd have a stockpile of these useful items I never used.  

In Mass Effect 2, the player starts out with a very small supply of medkits, which sort of teaches him or her to hold on to these from the very beginning.  By the time they've been upgraded to restore health/shields, the player is already accustomed to using them as sparingly as possible. When a player gets into a sticky situation and is near death, the idea to use a medkit may not happen.  Getting 100 credits for each surplus pickup also offers another incentive to hold on to them.

I like the idea of having your supply reset each mission, balanced perhaps by having less storage and/or fewer pickups per mission.  By limiting their supply, the decision to use a medkit would still feel important, but there wouldn't be that hangup of worrying about running out.  

I'm not sure if the same reasoning should apply to Heavy Weapons, but that's for another topic.

I agree.  The only time I felt comfortable using a medkit was when both of my guys were down.  Hell, on my first playthrough I avoided medkit pickups because I thought, "Well, I can go back later and restock if I need to".  You can't always do that, of course, but still.  Less medkits to use per mission with max refills between each mission would be much appreciated.

[Arhka]

Yes, bring back the medigel dispenser on the Normandy. Give me a reason to go to the Med-bay other than visit Legion and Chakwas. That way you get more medkits and immersion.

[termokanden]

I obsessively collect the 100 credits from each medkit I find. I can't help it.



Think the only place I felt like I needed medkits was in the final IFF fight on Insanity.

[Crespire]

I think a large reason why people don't use medkits is because Unity is the only resurrect ability in the game. Don't get me wrong, I think it should stay like that, but I think linking it to medigel means that people don't use medigel to heal, they use it to resurrect. The item is seen for the greatest value it provides. Once people get over that, they may use medigel a bit more liberally, but I think people instinctively only use medigel to res, even though a fullheal/shields may be just as good.

Part of it has to do with the interface for showing squad member status. I found the meters in ME1 very helpful, but I still find the ME2 system to be a bit of a pain in the ass when I'm in combat (with a particularly hard enemy). I can't glance down and get a good idea of my team status, and I usually only notice anything when the portrait goes grey. I just don't pay attention to that little wedge.

Modifié par Crespire, 10 août 2010 - 02:14 .

[Pacifien]

Hate the wedge. It's like the warning on the Hammerhead. Klaxon's start to wail followed two seconds later by death. Same with the wedge. Shields/Barriers fail. Death.

[NICKjnp]

eh... I only use medkits for squadmates. Otherwise I prefer barrier.

[Homebound]

When I need Medkits, I run out FAST. When I dont need em, theres a medkit station in every godamm room.

[termokanden]

Don't hate the medkits. Credits are always good

[Pacifien]

What the game needs is Dr. Chakwas running along behind me during Horizon and the Collector Ship to chuck medikits at me as needed.

[termokanden]

Too bad you can drink her under the table then

[epoch_]

Christina Norman wrote...

They are under used I'm considering removing the cooldown on first aid in ME3 to encourage more use of medkits.

I know this post is ancient, but its so funny to see devs posting about ME3 even though they haven't officially announced it.

[pedal2metal]

Christina Norman wrote...

They are under used I'm considering removing the cooldown on first aid in ME3 to encourage more use of medkits.

Christina,
   The fundamental reason they are under-utilized is simple:  In ME1, only shields regenerated so health gains on the battlefield REQUIRED medkits.  In ME2, just take cover for 5-10 seconds, wala, everything is healed.  So there is no requirement for medkits.  Necessity is the mother of invention as they say & in gameplay, necessity is the mother of usage.  So if medkits aren't necessary to survive/play the game, they aren't going to be used.  It's just that simple.

I almost never use a medkit.  I just take cover.  I play solo anyhow so I don't need to revive my teammates if they die.  Basically, ME2 has medkits to support different playstyles but if you're a GOW-type player who has learned to use cover for regenning, they just seem like a complete waste of time & energy.  I don't use them & probably never will under any type of auto-regen play system.

The only way to increase their use across all players on-average is to require their use.  Just like how Halo ODST brought them back after Halo-2/3 got rid of them.  I personally prefer games that require their use but given the ME2 direction, I don't see ME3 going this way.  Making them replenish on the Normandy, etc.... will still pale in usage comparison to making them required to heal during a mission.  As long as ME3 has an auto-regen system for health, I won't be using them.

Instead, I would prefer the money reward be upped to 1000 per unused item (med kit, heavy ammo) to allow for true decision-making vs. the 100 which is essentially useless.  This way if people want to strictly used cover/re-gen they can get some meaningful extra $$ or if they want to "run & gun" into combat using medkits liberally, they can do that as well.

As it stands now, it's a thinly disguised attempt to force me to play "run & gun" which I won't do so it's a wasted gesture on the design's part.  Make it actually useful to both conservationists (like myself) who get more $$ or "run & gun" players who get shields/health regenned in combat w/o taking cover & now it becomes more interesting.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

[pedal2metal]

epoch_ wrote...

Christina Norman wrote...

They are under used I'm considering removing the cooldown on first aid in ME3 to encourage more use of medkits.

I know this post is ancient, but its so funny to see devs posting about ME3 even though they haven't officially announced it.

The existence of ME3 has never been in question.  BioWare announced ME as a trilogy from day 1 & has stood by this assertion all along.  So while they haven't announced a ship date, they have asserted they would be working on ME3 since day 1.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[UrNoseKnows]

I understand the reasons for the gels but what does Legion do with them, I don't understand...



Rarely use them, they just fund my probes.

[OniGanon]

pedal2metal wrote...
wala

It's 'voila.' Not to be confused with 'viola.'


And really, medigel is underused because it's a limited resource. Limited resources in a videogame tend to get hoarded and used only when desperate. If they were restocked each time you returned to the Normandy, they'd get used a lot more.

Modifié par OniGanon, 02 septembre 2010 - 10:38 .

[curly haired boy]

WillieStyle wrote...

Since there are no enemies in game that can 1-shot you (or stun lock you from healthy to dead), that would make you invincible.

flamethrower enemies beg to differ...

i'd use medkits more often if they were replenished on the ship. upgrades would increase your capacity only.

also, we need a different mechanism for reviving teammates.

9 times out of 10 they die because they're not in cover. you revive them.....and they die again because they're not in cover. against a YMIR or two (say, on garrus's loyalty mission) keeping your squad alive is almost an exercise in futility.

what we need is medigel getting fallen teammates conscious, while they drag themselves/crawl to cover. during this time, enemies ignore them. once in cover, their shields/health regens as slowly as yours does. that gives you a penalty for letting them die, but it also makes it so reviving them isn't futile.

[Big Yam]

OniGanon wrote...

And really, medigel is underused because it's a limited resource. Limited resources in a videogame tend to get hoarded and used only when desperate. If they were restocked each time you returned to the Normandy, they'd get used a lot more.

+1

As a limited resource, I'm constantly telling myself NOT to use medkits during the beginning of the game.  Consequently, it never becomes part of my combat repertoire later in the game, even if I have 7 or 8 of them.

[Sailears]

Bumping this to continue the thought of having unity on a separate hotkey (not one of the 8 - on PC). This would free up one to be used for a squad power (especially when Shepard is a caster, with his/her powers taking up 5 of them).

[pcrisipm]

why not the gears of war solution?
medigel is a used for healing alone. period.
whenever a team-mate is down the player, maybe the still-healthy team-mate as well, needs to go over and give him/her a unity shot.
it also adds a tactical urgency to the situation: you must decide if getting your downed team-mate back into the fight is more important than keeping pressure on the enemy and 'hold the line' even as your team-mate (or possibly team-mates) is hanging on to life, calling for assistance.
it's been proved to work, some drama by the part of the downed team-mate can be a compeling factor -- gears of war, rainbow six vegas, army of two. probably more.
(curiously - or not? - all run on unreal engine)

Modifié par pcrisipm, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:34 .

[Kronner]

Medigel is ridiculous in ME2 - there is already auto regenerating health and shields, adding a superpower that restores all your health and shields insantly with 3s (I think) cooldown is over the top IMHO.

I'd welcome the Hidden&Dangerous (game) way - if squadmate dies it is for good. In that case AI would have to be much better though. (maybe not for all difficulties, but it would make Insanity more interesting, perhaps Hardcore too)

Modifié par Kronner, 26 octobre 2010 - 03:52 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Medigel is ridiculous in ME2 - there is already auto regenerating health and shields, adding a superpower that restores all your health and shields insantly with 3s (I think) cooldown is over the top IMHO.

I'd welcome the Hidden&Dangerous (game) way - if squadmate dies it is for good. In that case AI would have to be much better though. (maybe not for all difficulties, but it would make Insanity more interesting, perhaps Hardcore too)

I don't like the way medkits work either. The extremely short cooldown also makes (bonus) powers like Fortification, Barrier and GSB almost redundant - they're on a 12 s cooldown I can live with the reviving thing, but it shouldn't regen Shep's health and shield.

Never played Hidden & Dangerous, but I think I would be playing solo most of the time if death squadies remained death. I think it could work if you use this system per mission (something else I don't like is the 'fights over; squadies reborn' thing. they should stay death till you either revive them or complete the entire mission)

[Kronner]

If squad AI was good enough, it should not be a problem (they should be elite soldiers/whatever). The key would be in strategy that Shepard (player) chooses for each fight. This would probably be hard to implement, considering how poor the AI is in ME2 (for example Miranda "screaming do not get close to it (Praetorian)", but first thing she does is run to it, trigger the barrier restore animation and die LOL).

But I like your idea about squadmates staying "dead" until you revive them or complete the mission, that could be pretty cool feature.

Modifié par Kronner, 26 octobre 2010 - 05:10 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, too bad the AI is pathetic. Never fully understand why devs consider AI insignificant, some decent AI (both ally and enemy) would make gaming so much more fun.



BTW I like the Injury-System Bioware uses in DA:O It at least makes squadies and player less effective (when injured). They could do something similar in ME2 (increased cooldown or disabling certain power(s); (weapon) damage penalty). Anything that would encourage keeping your squad alive would be nice.