16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

All right, question for everyone: In my current DW Warrior Cousland run, what should I spec Morrigan as? She's my primary mage and I got one of the Shapeshifting mods so that its actually useful. Should I spec her as a Blood Mage or Spirit Healer? Blood Mage seems to make more sense RP wise, but Spirit Healer is pretty useful too, even if it doesn't make as much sense from a RP POV.

How do you usually spec out Morrigan?

Modifié par Brockololly, 04 juin 2010 - 04:32 .

[Metalunatic]

I've always kept her with only one specialization; Shapeshifting, but I've never used those particular skills for obvious reasons. I'll always give her some healing skills -- regeneration and heal, and the rest for entropy hexes, lightning and frost.

[Brockololly]

Unless my PC is a mage, I usually give Morrigan at least heal and then up to virulent walking bomb and cone of cold and either go mostly entropy or primal, maybe trying to sneak in crushing prison too.

But this go round, I'm using the Expanded Shapeshifting mod (http://www.dragonage.../file.php?id=91) which is pretty cool and makes shapeshifting quite useful. I'm just stuck with whether I should go Blood Mage or Spirit Healer for her next specialization.

Modifié par Brockololly, 04 juin 2010 - 05:28 .

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...

All right, question for everyone: In my current DW Warrior Cousland run, what should I spec Morrigan as? She's my primary mage and I got one of the Shapeshifting mods so that its actually useful. Should I spec her as a Blood Mage or Spirit Healer? Blood Mage seems to make more sense RP wise, but Spirit Healer is pretty useful too, even if it doesn't make as much sense from a RP POV.

How do you usually spec out Morrigan?

I use her as a Shapeshifter/Blood Magi myself. The only form I really use is Flying Swarm though. Since my main PC is a Spirit Healer/Blood Mage, I tend to use her as more of a crowd control/debuff/dps type of mage which probably wouldn't be the best of ideas for your game.

I would think Arcane Warrior/Shapeshifter would make the most sense for you, if you truly want to  use her shapeshifting to the fullest. You could easily turn her into a tank thanks to AW plate, or a close combat DPS monster (literally), having her pepper enemies with AOE spells/combat debuffs, shift into animal form, fight alongside your Cousland, and then pop into Master Flying Swarm whenever her health starts to get low to heal up while still putting some pressure out.

Magic is still your primary attribute to pump up, but you also need to increase your Strength, Dex, and Con up to decent levels on her. You can probably deal with the Con easily just wear gear and jewlery and the like just by picking up Arcane Warrior and wearing plate.

If you need her to be a healer, then just ignore shapeshifting alltogether. They just don't mesh well.

Edit: I just looked at that mod.  Drop having a tank in your group, Morrigan in many of those forms coupled with your Warrior can easily handle the tanking in your group while allowing you to pack a ranged dps as a third party member, and just bring out Wynne as your dedicated healer---unless you have a set group in mind, then just chug potions like crazy.

I personally would build her in one of two different ways:

-Blood Mage/Shapeshifter. I'd get her willpower to 20-24 as endgame markers and then stop with it. Magic would be my primary attribute for her, Str/Dex/Con I would work on with my off points. I would literally run her with 5-6 sustained spells, Rock Armor, Mage Armor, a weapon buff like TK weapons, Spell Wisp, Spell Might most likely. She'd still have enough mana to use light damage spells if needed, or pop out and cast heals without Blood Magic being activated. With BM activated, you can either pepper the enemy with spells, dropping into Swarm to up health before swapping to a more damage activated shape, or lead off with Blood Wound, go into your damage form, and swap to Swarm when you need health.

-Arcane Warrior/Shapeshifter. Statistically about the same, just less focus on Con (wear plate with stamina when you can), and more focus on willpower to up your mana pool. If you use the Improved Atmosphere mod, you can pick up two different amazing Arcane Warrior platemail sets early-ish in the game, the Fade Armor from the Circle Tower or the Cultist Magi Plate from the Urn Temple. Even without those you can still find good enough gear for her. I'd run with Rock Armor, Mage Armor, and the AW sustainables for sure. She'd play a bit more as the tank allowing your Cousland to do the damage. With the new shapeshifter abilities you can use like grab, slap, and overwhelm, those can just be your 'taunts', taking out a enemy with a lockdown/damage/high aggro maneuver. Swarm for health when needed, and she can pop out and use CC spells to help control the battlefield against swarm fights before going back into a new form.

Modifié par Swoo, 04 juin 2010 - 05:46 .

[DWSmiley]

I usually give her Blood Mage, which definitely fits her character. I don't use blood wound much but the +2 spellpower and +2 con is nice. I usually also run a no healer, no tank group - it's more interesting. The beasties die faster but if I get careless things can go wrong quickly.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

All right, question for everyone: In my current DW Warrior Cousland run, what should I spec Morrigan as? She's my primary mage and I got one of the Shapeshifting mods so that its actually useful. Should I spec her as a Blood Mage or Spirit Healer? Blood Mage seems to make more sense RP wise, but Spirit Healer is pretty useful too, even if it doesn't make as much sense from a RP POV.

How do you usually spec out Morrigan?

I use her as my primary mage so she does everything from damage dealing to healing (granny Wynne hardly ever leaves the camp after Broken Circle).
Considering the abudance of lyrium potions she shouldn't have any mana issues, expecially if you raise her willpower to 30.

I'd make her a spirit healer just for group heal spell, which I found very usefull in those situations when heal is on cooldown and your group is taking serious damage. It will also give you a minor bonus to mana regen which is handy.

I will admit that I never really made any of my companions a blood mage, mainly because that specialization requires quite a bit of micromanagement and wastes several tactics slots better used for other spells.

I never really bother with what makes sense RP wise and just take whatever I feel will be more usefull.

[Master Shiori]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Even though I only once did the DR I would be bummed if Bioware left it as a cliff hanger I want to bloody well know is going to happen.

Honestly Giggles, I'll be surprised if they don't follow up on dark ritual and god child storyline in the future.

That ending truly gives them the most options for future stories, especially if they focus on Old Gods, Chantry and mages trying to break free (which they hinted at in Awakening).

But that might require a bit of canonizing on Bioware's part which will probably cause an uproar in some circles.
Still, David Gaider did say that whatever they decide to do somebody will get upset, so I guess Bioware expects a reaction from angry fans one way or the other...

[blademaster7]

I used her as a spirit healer in some of my earlier games. Blood magic is my favorite spec, if only for blood wound, but it requires micromanagement and since I was controlling my PC most of the time i didn't bother with it.



My last 2 playthroughs were solo, so I only kept her around for herbalism and for her sidequest(flaming knives!)..

[Swoo]

Question here: My rogue is getting to the point where he's seeing a lot of really non daggers dropping or about to drop; What's the huge difference between say using two swords that are top of the line like Starfang/Topsiders, vs a Sword/Dagger, or two Daggers?

Back to Morrigan!

Shori has it right, there's no way we won't see her again, and they will have to address the OGB when they do so. Question is how much of a factor will he/she play? Of course we can't trust what Bioware says right now. If the OGB is going to build up into a major character, they are going to downplay him as to not tip their hand. If the OGB isn't going to be that huge, we won't believe them when they say it.

I'm personally hoping for the OGB to be a Camp NPC so to speak that you help mold along with, or against, Morrigan, and in the third DA you have a Major NPC that has kind of decided on a path to take based on what he/she wants, Morrigans teachings, and your teachings. It would be ridiculously awesome.

Edit: And Brock, noticed you finally got Warden's Keep. What did you think of it? I think if that's the kind of DLC they put out every time, I'd be rather happy.

Modifié par Swoo, 04 juin 2010 - 08:06 .

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

I'm personally hoping for the OGB to be a Camp NPC so to speak that you help mold along with, or against, Morrigan, and in the third DA you have a Major NPC that has kind of decided on a path to take based on what he/she wants, Morrigans teachings, and your teachings. It would be ridiculously awesome.

That is exactly what I 'd love to see. Be able to teach and parent the OGB in DA2, then maybe close off the Morrigan/Warden storyline in DA2 and move on to Old God Young Adult shaped by your choices in DA2 for a companion/NPC in DA3. I like it.

Modifié par Brockololly, 04 juin 2010 - 08:05 .

[blademaster7]

Well, it is almost certain that Morrigan's story isn't over yet. The real question, however, is what will happen to the Warden. Was he just a chapter in her story(I am tempted to say footnote) or are they going to meet again(rivals, enemies, friends or whatever)?

Swoo, dual daggers is the superior build.

Modifié par blademaster7, 04 juin 2010 - 08:14 .

[Swoo]

"Swoo, dual daggers is the superior build."



Why's that?



I'll take your word for it, I just want to know the reasoning so I can gear properly.

[bl00dsh0t]

For me its spirit healer at all times so that I can use my favourite companion combo morrigan alistair leliana. Give morrigan cone of cold and fireball, perhaps some crushing prison goodness and then focus on heals and you usually won't have to waste time making mass potions. But I guess from a rp perspective blood magic makes sense to some extent, allthough she does not speak in favor or against it at any point of the game really. Shapeshifting I have found to be the least usefull spec in the entire game so I don't bother putting any levels into it at all. It syncs with absolutely nothing since she can't cast as a bear/spider/swarm so why the hell bother xD



In the end its all a question of playstyles really, and the difficulty you play on.



@swoo the double daggers is the best because of the insane atackspeed as well as very high armor penetration. Personally I prefer the sword dagger combo, but it is a bit weaker also from a min max perspective it forces you to use more str that could be used to up your damage. More str does have an advantage in terms of atack(likelyhood to hit) while cunning has the advantage of higher armor penetration. It all boils down to difficulty since you need more atack to hit the higher defence enemies on the higher difficulties.



There was a forum post that summarized the rogue weapon combos and IIRC if dual dagger is 100% the sword dagger combo is at around 95% in terms of damage per second. Just avoid the two longsword option, it literally makes you deal less damage by a lot.

[blademaster7]

The benefits of dexterity are greater than the benefits of strength. Swords need strength while daggers work with either.

Strength
0.5 dam to swords/daggers per point
0.5 att per point

Dexterity
0.5 dam to daggers per point
0.5 attack per point
1 defense per point

Daggers are also superior in the DPS department. Due to their higher speed modifier you end up doing more damage in the long run. Runes, poisons, spells(like frost weapons) and exploit weakness do not scale with the speed. If you have 3 elemental and 3 paralyze runes on your daggers for instance you will notice a big difference in the rate you damage and stun.

I believe there was a thread with DPS calculations around. The dual dagger build with max cunning was the leader while the max DEX build had the highest att and def.


So investing into dexterity and using daggers will give you the same att as a Rogue that invested in strength but with higher defense. And if you invest in cunning you will end up with higher damage output as well.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that with swords you will need to split your points in STR and DEX. A Rogue with dual daggers and Lethality is free to put all those STR points into CUN. You don't get the same attack but cunning gives you more damage(exploit weakness and armor penetration). Strength gives you the ability to wear massive armor though, so it comes down to armor and attack VS damage and defense.

Modifié par blademaster7, 04 juin 2010 - 09:07 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Master Shiori wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Even though I only once did the DR I would be bummed if Bioware left it as a cliff hanger I want to bloody well know is going to happen.

Honestly Giggles, I'll be surprised if they don't follow up on dark ritual and god child storyline in the future.

That ending truly gives them the most options for future stories, especially if they focus on Old Gods, Chantry and mages trying to break free (which they hinted at in Awakening).

But that might require a bit of canonizing on Bioware's part which will probably cause an uproar in some circles.
Still, David Gaider did say that whatever they decide to do somebody will get upset, so I guess Bioware expects a reaction from angry fans one way or the other...

While it would upset me if they cannonized the DR I would get over and go play the awsomeness of the next dragon age game. However what I really hope is that our descions in Dragon Age and Awakening, will have an impact on the game world, like what is going to happen in Fable 3 from fable 2's descions.

I also have to apologixe to the Morrigan fans, I actually relistened to Morrigans dialouge at the end and I was a little harsh on Morri. My Mage who romanced and turned down the dark ritual, wow Morrigan is either a stupendous faker, or was really hurt to see it end. Claudia Black did a great job on her and I want to see her again. Although I doubt alistair wants to see her again.

How does Alistair know about the Dark Ritual though? I mean was he spying or was he just there at the right moment?

[tom2504]

Edit - screwed up post, will re-post

Modifié par tom2504, 04 juin 2010 - 09:42 .

[tom2504]

David Gaider wrote...

Hmm. What if we changed more
about a future Dragon Age than you might like? Quel horreur!

I
imagine it would look something like this:

Stage 1: Denial
Posts
of "no, it can't be true!" and "maybe they didn't mean what we think it
means!"

Stage 2: Anger
As the truth sinks in, posts of
"Bioware, you have betrayed all that is good and righteous!" and
furious predictions of financial collapse and boycotts, etc. etc.

Stage
3: Bargaining
Hopeful posts of "Well, if we don't get X will we
still get Y?" and "Well, since there's still Z maybe X won't seem that
bad" or even "Will we be able to change X ourselves?"

Stage 4:
Depression
"Bioware is dead", "RPG's are dead", etc. ad
nauseum as that glorious, scintillating might-have-been is now
really gone.

and finally Stage 5: Acceptance
You see
whatever game it is for what it actually is and enjoy it on its
own terms.

or, alternatively Stage 5: Acceptance
You
realize it's not the game for you, but might be for other people. You
move on.

or, if you really must, you go back to Stage
1: Denial
You refuse to accept the presence of X in your beloved
game, or any game for that matter, and begin a bitter campaign to
convince everyone else that it is the travesty you think it is. If you
play the game, you are determined to hate it-- and voila! You do!
Possibly you hang out on RPG Codex.


...at least, that's how
it usually happens. Or so I've found over the years. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

The writers (David Gaider in specific obviously) are playing games with us, that above post of his could be interpreted as PRO continuation with previous questions explained or vise versa. It's abundantly clear that the good fellows at Bioware haven't said anything and won't say anything until E3, yet people have still gone through the five stages of David Gaider already, jeez.

Modifié par tom2504, 04 juin 2010 - 09:51 .

[blademaster7]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

How does Alistair know about the Dark Ritual though? I mean was he spying or was he just there at the right moment?

His dialogue is seriously messed up after the landsmeet. If you didn't go to his room and tell him about it he isn't supposed to know.

I pointed it out to ejoslin and she fixed it for me but I don't know if it's included in her mod. I recommend the mod regardless. It fixes alot of bugs regarding Zevran and Alistair.

[Master Shiori]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

While it would upset me if they cannonized the DR I would get over and go play the awsomeness of the next dragon age game. However what I really hope is that our descions in Dragon Age and Awakening, will have an impact on the game world, like what is going to happen in Fable 3 from fable 2's descions.

All of us here are hoping that our decisions in Origins will carry over in some way into DA2, whether it's by importing our character or just importing the world state (I'd prefer the option of importing the Warden himself, since that would really add an extra dimension to dealing with Morrigan).

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I also have to apologixe to the Morrigan fans, I actually relistened to Morrigans dialouge at the end and I was a little harsh on Morri. My Mage who romanced and turned down the dark ritual, wow Morrigan is either a stupendous faker, or was really hurt to see it end. Claudia Black did a great job on her and I want to see her again. Although I doubt alistair wants to see her again.

No worries about that. The thing with Morri is that you need to explore all the different ways your character can deal with her (lover and friend) in order to truly understand her. She is a complex character and you really need to dig deep in order to unearth what lies beneath the "ice queen" exterior.

Giggles_Manically wrote...

How does Alistair know about the Dark Ritual though? I mean was he spying or was he just there at the right moment?

It's a bug with Alistair using the wrong line. He isn't supposed to know about it unless you tell him.

Terra_X has fixed that issue in Morrigan restoration patch, which you can get on DANexus. It also restores some cut dialogue for Morrigan (related to her personal quest, extra banter with Leliana if you romance them both, etc.), so I'd recommend getting that if you ever plan to romance Morrigan.
Charsen's Gatekisses mod also restores kiss scenes for all love interests at Denerim's gates, so I'd recommend that one as well.

[Master Shiori]

tom2504 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Hmm. What if we changed more
about a future Dragon Age than you might like? Quel horreur!

I
imagine it would look something like this:

Stage 1: Denial
Posts
of "no, it can't be true!" and "maybe they didn't mean what we think it
means!"

Stage 2: Anger
As the truth sinks in, posts of
"Bioware, you have betrayed all that is good and righteous!" and
furious predictions of financial collapse and boycotts, etc. etc.

Stage
3: Bargaining
Hopeful posts of "Well, if we don't get X will we
still get Y?" and "Well, since there's still Z maybe X won't seem that
bad" or even "Will we be able to change X ourselves?"

Stage 4:
Depression
"Bioware is dead", "RPG's are dead", etc. ad
nauseum as that glorious, scintillating might-have-been is now
really gone.

and finally Stage 5: Acceptance
You see
whatever game it is for what it actually is and enjoy it on its
own terms.

or, alternatively Stage 5: Acceptance
You
realize it's not the game for you, but might be for other people. You
move on.

or, if you really must, you go back to Stage
1: Denial
You refuse to accept the presence of X in your beloved
game, or any game for that matter, and begin a bitter campaign to
convince everyone else that it is the travesty you think it is. If you
play the game, you are determined to hate it-- and voila! You do!
Possibly you hang out on RPG Codex.


...at least, that's how
it usually happens. Or so I've found over the years. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

The writers (David Gaider in specific obviously) are playing games with us, that above post of his could be interpreted as PRO continuation with previous questions explained or vise versa. It's abundantly clear that the good fellows at Bioware haven't said anything and won't say anything until E3, yet people have still gone through the five stages of David Gaider already, jeez.

David Gaider loves saying one thing and then immediately says the exact opposite to keep us guessing.
The only thing he's said so far that makes sense is that they have all the options open and can do whatever they think makes for a better story in the long run.

Still, I doubt they'd just ignore something that fans obviously feel strongly about and want to see more off, especially if it can be used to enrich the future stories.

The codex entry in the game itself, called "Calendar of Thedas", clearly says that Dragon Age is supposed to be a time of change and great upheaval for the entire world. THis makes me believe they'll try and make each game impact the world in some way.

Origins already had us stop the Blight without the rest of Thedas even being aware it started. The DR and God Child could be used to change the religious map by weakening the Chantry and ressurecting the worship of the Old Gods. Even the notes of Arl Foreshadow hint that we might explore the ancient elven civilization and discover it's secrets.

[tom2504]

Master Shiori wrote...


David Gaider loves saying one thing and then immediately says the exact opposite to keep us guessing.
The only thing he's said so far that makes sense is that they have all the options open and can do whatever they think makes for a better story in the long run.

Still, I doubt they'd just ignore something that fans obviously feel strongly about and want to see more off, especially if it can be used to enrich the future stories.

The codex entry in the game itself, called "Calendar of Thedas", clearly says that Dragon Age is supposed to be a time of change and great upheaval for the entire world. THis makes me believe they'll try and make each game impact the world in some way.

Origins already had us stop the Blight without the rest of Thedas even being aware it started. The DR and God Child could be used to change the religious map by weakening the Chantry and ressurecting the worship of the Old Gods. Even the notes of Arl Foreshadow hint that we might explore the ancient elven civilization and discover it's secrets.

Not to mention the Qunari possibly invading Ferelden!

But I actually didn't know about the Calender of Thedas part, much thanks for sharing that, very insightful and gives me a little bit more hope

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

Edit: And Brock, noticed you finally got Warden's Keep. What did you think of it? I think if that's the kind of DLC they put out every time, I'd be rather happy.

Ha, yes I finally got around to it! I enjoyed it well enough- I liked that it was a new area and outside the Keep was very cool looking. And I totally enjoyed the fact that there was some lore to be had in it! Sure it could have been a bit longer ( it probably took me about 1.5 hours going slow and reading everything), but if they made more DLC like that, I'd gladly shell out the $$$ for it.

On a somewhat related note, I really hope we see more puzzles in DA2. Playing through Warden's Keep, it was pretty much hack and slash to get to the top when I was thinking it would be the perfect kind of setting to have to make your way through traps and puzzles to get to Avernus. I think thats why the Urn of Sacred Ashes is one of my favorite parts of Origins- you've got your combat, but the Gauntlet is largely riddles and puzzles which makes for a nice change of pace. That and its totally a play off of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, which automatically makes it awesome in my book.

Back to Avernus though, its the sort of little snippets of lore that you get from him about the Taint that makes me hope we get to bring our Wardens back for DA2. One thing Avernus' notes and chat about the Wardens and the Taint reminded me of is in Baldur's Gate when you can turn into the Slayer form, what with it being part of your blood and all. Seems like Avernus is trying to tap into the greater power of the Taint, not unlike Irenicus was trying to tap into the power of the Bhaalspawn.There is clearly a lot more potential story wise with the Grey Wardens and so long as Morrigan and an OGB is potentially out there, I'll just be majorly disappointed if they ditch the Warden. But I've said that a million times already.

Modifié par Brockololly, 04 juin 2010 - 10:30 .

[Swoo]

blademaster7 wrote...

The benefits of dexterity are greater than the benefits of strength. Swords need strength while daggers work with either.

Strength
0.5 dam to swords/daggers per point
0.5 att per point

Dexterity
0.5 dam to daggers per point
0.5 attack per point
1 defense per point

Daggers are also superior in the DPS department. Due to their higher speed modifier you end up doing more damage in the long run. Runes, poisons, spells(like frost weapons) and exploit weakness do not scale with the speed. If you have 3 elemental and 3 paralyze runes on your daggers for instance you will notice a big difference in the rate you damage and stun.

I believe there was a thread with DPS calculations around. The dual dagger build with max cunning was the leader while the max DEX build had the highest att and def.


So investing into dexterity and using daggers will give you the same att as a Rogue that invested in strength but with higher defense. And if you invest in cunning you will end up with higher damage output as well.


EDIT: Forgot to mention that with swords you will need to split your points in STR and DEX. A Rogue with dual daggers and Lethality is free to put all those STR points into CUN. You don't get the same attack but cunning gives you more damage(exploit weakness and armor penetration). Strength gives you the ability to wear massive armor though, so it comes down to armor and attack VS damage and defense.

Alright, thanks for that you guys. I just didn't see how a dagger in the Main Hand could outdo Starfang which has a 12 in damage and a buttload of armor penetration, but I suppose when you factor in talents and other gear I could see it with a suitably high end dagger in comparison. 

Edit: Question though, does Lethality only work on Daggers, or does it replace the Str modifier on Swords as well?

Modifié par Swoo, 04 juin 2010 - 10:38 .

[blademaster7]

Lethality works for all weapons.

Pros of Lethality and cunning

- powers up your talents - exploit weakness, bard songs, stealth and lockpicking. Works for persuasion as well.
- you get more armor penetration
- Lethality gives you a nice +10% melee critical chance

Cons

- You don't get the bonus to attack that you get from strength. Too much cunning will make you powerfull but you will need to balance it with dexterity to get a decent hit rate.
- You are limited to light armor since you are not investing in strength. This doesn't give you aggro though so it may be a good thing if you have a tank in your party.


That's about it.

Modifié par blademaster7, 04 juin 2010 - 11:00 .

[Swoo]

Well, I've been basically building a 2 DEX/1 CUN per level-up, so I think I'm doing ok in that dept atm. I'm at 60 DEX and 40 CUN after item modifiers, talents, buffs, what have you.



I was going to go to 31-32 STR to get Starfang equippable, but I dunno, I'll look into what daggers are out there I should make a run at. I've been using the Royal Sword mixed with an Antivan Crow Dagger atm.