16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, Morrigan could have said nothing and had the DR done anyways. Or she could have promised to remain and she would have left anyways. But that is not Morrigan. She is clear, straight forward and doesn't play around. I think she believes that the PC earned her respect (and perhaps love) that he / she deserves to know the truth before doing the ritual.

It's also a way for the game not to screw you over and say "Ha! Got ya".

I don't know that Morrigan could have necessarily gotten away with just doing the DR without the Warden/Alistair/Loghain knowing. I think Gaider at one point has mentioned there was supposed to be some magical type stuff going on in the cutscene (like fancy candles, runes, that sort of thing) to indicate that the DR was more involved than just having sex. But sure enough even then, Morigan could have said nothing about the Old God Baby, but she tells you that regardless.

That said though, Morrigan is only telling the PC what she thinks they need to know and absolutely nothing more. There is clearly more going on that we have no clue about and thus plenty of "Gotcha!" room for the writers, even though Gaider has mentioned before his dislike of "gotcha!" moments. We will see....

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

The DR sequence could have been done so much better.  As it was, the most critical point in the story for a Morrigan romancing Warden felt like nothing more than a low grade bi+c# slap after 80 hours in the game.

Maybe, it's just me though.

Totally agree.

For the Morrigan romancing Warden the DR scene is arguably the most important in the whole game and as it stands, its just a woefully cookie cutter, one size fits all scene with only the slimmest of acknowledgments that the PC is even romancing Morrigan or that Morrigan even cares for the PC. As sucky as it is now, I'm giving BioWare a chance to make it right in DA2 or an ex-pack.

*sigh* So it goes....

Modifié par Brockololly, 05 juin 2010 - 07:28 .

[bl00dsh0t]

Haha one mention of the dr and the thread is back in action xD

Well it is one hell of a shame that gaider's vision of how it was supposed to happen got cut down to what was there. Nice to know that it was meant to be so much more though, does give some hope for morrigan as a character at least.

Edit: Btw it seems HL2 ep 3 is about to be announced, damn the amount of E3 excitement is getting redicolous xD

Modifié par bl00dsh0t, 05 juin 2010 - 07:41 .

[Swoo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I guess I'll just post pics



And now old Magi, you..will...die.

Edit: Honestly, I love how this forum manages to mangle one out of every two posts I make.

Modifié par Swoo, 05 juin 2010 - 07:56 .

[Brockololly]

bl00dsh0t wrote...

Haha one mention of the dr and the thread is back in action xD

Well it is one hell of a shame that gaider's vision of how it was supposed to happen got cut down to what was there. Nice to know that it was meant to be so much more though, does give some hope for morrigan as a character at least.

Edit: Btw it seems HL2 ep 3 is about to be announced, damn the amount of E3 excitement is getting redicolous xD

See thats the thing for me- I'm perfectly ok with Gaider and company going the whole dark and tragic route with Morrigan if thats what they really want to do. But if they're going to do that, they can't cut corners on the pivotal scenes revealing the tragedy, like the DR.

I know cuts always have to be made, but just don't nerf the climax scenes at the end of the game where everything is supposed to be coming together into one big crescendo of emotional engagement. The thing with the DR is that for those of us involved in the Morrigan romance, thats when you're most engaged and coincidentally when your BS meter is going pretty high. So you'll  notice any cut corners or plot hammer moments pretty easily there. Don't cheap out on the endings, is all I hope for going forward.

And yes, my head will explode into a mass of confetti and joy if Half-Life 3 or Episode 3 is announced at E3. And now Shogun Total War 2 is coming out too! Wahoo!

[Giggles_Manically]

There is a mod I lost the link for, that redos the DR scene, I had the screen shot, there was a glowing pentegram, candles, and fog. Poor Alistair looked like he was going to wet himself.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

bl00dsh0t wrote...

Haha one mention of the dr and the thread is back in action xD

Well it is one hell of a shame that gaider's vision of how it was supposed to happen got cut down to what was there. Nice to know that it was meant to be so much more though, does give some hope for morrigan as a character at least.

Edit: Btw it seems HL2 ep 3 is about to be announced, damn the amount of E3 excitement is getting redicolous xD

See thats the thing for me- I'm perfectly ok with Gaider and company going the whole dark and tragic route with Morrigan if thats what they really want to do. But if they're going to do that, they can't cut corners on the pivotal scenes revealing the tragedy, like the DR.

I know cuts always have to be made, but just don't nerf the climax scenes at the end of the game where everything is supposed to be coming together into one big crescendo of emotional engagement. The thing with the DR is that for those of us involved in the Morrigan romance, thats when you're most engaged and coincidentally when your BS meter is going pretty high. So you'll  notice any cut corners or plot hammer moments pretty easily there. Don't cheap out on the endings, is all I hope for going forward.

And yes, my head will explode into a mass of confetti and joy if Half-Life 3 or Episode 3 is announced at E3. And now Shogun Total War 2 is coming out too! Wahoo!

I think Morrigan's story already has enough tragedy with her leaving the Warden behind.

If they continue it in some future title only for her to die or meet some other gruesome fate, then I'll be be royaly ticked off.

At the very least they could allow us, the players, to decide what happens to Morrigan based on our actions, just like we could determine Alistair's faith in Origins.
Another plot hammer moment, just for the sake of "tragedy", would really kill my interest in DA.

[Giggles_Manically]

Does everyone hate Morrigan after only their first playthrough. first my sister and now my friend:

My friend thinks his game is broken since Morrigan left him in the end. He simply can not bring himself to the conclusion that Morrigan leaves no matter what happens. When I pointed out that this always happens as part of the story and really lost it. Then he called all the other romancable charachters and Bioware Developers names., and refuses to play anymore since they did it to "his" favourite companion. It happened a on Friday to him and he is still angry. Makes that Asai person look nice in comparison.

Just a recap:
me: nope she always leaves.
friend: , I hate Bioware, I hate all other LI,FML slams phone down.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 05 juin 2010 - 09:30 .

[blademaster7]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There is a mod I lost the link for, that redos the DR scene, I had the screen shot, there was a glowing pentegram, candles, and fog. Poor Alistair looked like he was going to wet himself.

You are missing the point.

We don't want a mod that adds a sex scene.

What we want is to ask meaningful questions and get meaningful answers. You are standing there like a chump and you can't even ask a simple WHY? Not even a persuasion/intimidation option.

You have to accept it blindly, and if you don't you can watch her say the last word and leave with a smirk on her face.

I find it hard to believe that a romancing Warden spend the entire night with her and he just didn't ask a thing. If this was  in a movie then I guess it's understandable, because the writer would find a way to make the Warden stay in character and keep the audience in the dark at the same time. A simple scene where she whispers something to him and then the screen goes blank would do it.

But when the Warden and the audience are the same person then we have a problem. You either have to explain it to both or strip the Warden off his character and don't explain it at all for the sake of creating a mystery. The writer decided to go with the latter.

These kind of "mysteries" do not work for interactive video games IMO. But that's just me.

Modifié par blademaster7, 05 juin 2010 - 09:34 .

[Swoo]

blademaster7 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

There is a mod I lost the link for, that redos the DR scene, I had the screen shot, there was a glowing pentegram, candles, and fog. Poor Alistair looked like he was going to wet himself.

You are missing the point.

We don't want a mod that adds a sex scene.

What we want is to ask meaningful questions and get meaningful answers. You are standing there like a chump and you can't even ask a simple WHY? Not even a persuasion/intimidation option.

You have to accept it blindly, and if you don't you can watch her say the last word and leave with a smirk on her face.

I find it hard to believe that a romancing Warden spend the entire night with her and he just didn't ask a thing. If this was  in a movie then I guess it's understandable, because the writer would find a way to make the Warden stay in character and keep the audience in the dark at the same time. A simple scene where she whispers something to him and then the screen goes blank would do it.

But when the Warden and the audience are the same person then we have a problem. You either have to explain it to both or strip the Warden off his character and don't explain it at all for the sake of creating a mystery. The writer decided to go with the latter.

These kind of "mysteries" do not work for interactive video games IMO. But that's just me.

Maybe I misread Gig's post, but I thought he was talking about adding magical elements to the scene making it more of a ritual and less of just a sex scene.

But you hit on all the other points that we've drummed for awhile. The biggest damning to the entire thing is the complete rigid presentation that gives you absolutely no option other than to walk a straight line they forced you onto (out of the blue).

[Giggles_Manically]

How am I missing the point, I was simply responding to people saying the scene was so bland and had no atmosphere. And I do agree that the Warden should have asked more, which is why I usually refuse to go through with it in the end. Not going to tell me what is up? No God Baby for you.

[Ash Wind]

Brockololly wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I might try Valkyria Chronicles; I've heard alot of good about it.  I did start to toy around with Risen (to take a break in the middle of my Army of Two: TFD Contractor [Insane] playthrough) and it is interesting with very decent graphics and lighting.  A very simplistic dialogue system, but fun in a light hearted sense.  Not far enough along to rate the combat system yet.

If you ever get around to seeing the light of PC gaming, you should give The Witcher a shot. Its a "dark" RPG that I think does the whole consequences angle better than DAO. ALthough the combat system is kind of wonky, its a pretty good game- and the sequel is supposed to be coming out early next year- same time as the 2/1/2011 DA thing.

Agrees... I liked The Witcher a lot. The PC Setup is interesting, A great setting, interesting NPCs, and a good Storyline. Combat was ok... And... while it It has a quasi romance element, that doesn't seem to keep the PC from kicking boots with a number of damsels spread across the game world. 

[Giggles_Manically]

Or getting Trading Cards after the knocking of boots either.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Or getting Trading Cards after the knocking of boots either.

Yeah, that whole aspect of things was a bit goofy and I think I read that in The Witcher 2 they're getting rid of that. But the whole atmosphere of the game was really unique- in a lot of ways it seemed more like what BioWare was trying to do in DAO, what with the whole grimy, semi-realistic medieval asthetic with racism and politics and all that. The Witcher isn't a perfect game by any stretch but once you get past the slow start and can overlook the mediocre dialogue and voice acting, its got some neat ideas. The whole consequences aspect of things is nice, even if it occassionally goes into "Gotcha!" territory.

[Ash Wind]

Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

bl00dsh0t wrote...

Haha one mention of the dr and the thread is back in action xD

Well it is one hell of a shame that gaider's vision of how it was supposed to happen got cut down to what was there. Nice to know that it was meant to be so much more though, does give some hope for morrigan as a character at least.

Edit: Btw it seems HL2 ep 3 is about to be announced, damn the amount of E3 excitement is getting redicolous xD

See thats the thing for me- I'm perfectly ok with Gaider and company going the whole dark and tragic route with Morrigan if thats what they really want to do. But if they're going to do that, they can't cut corners on the pivotal scenes revealing the tragedy, like the DR.

I know cuts always have to be made, but just don't nerf the climax scenes at the end of the game where everything is supposed to be coming together into one big crescendo of emotional engagement. The thing with the DR is that for those of us involved in the Morrigan romance, thats when you're most engaged and coincidentally when your BS meter is going pretty high. So you'll  notice any cut corners or plot hammer moments pretty easily there. Don't cheap out on the endings, is all I hope for going forward.

And yes, my head will explode into a mass of confetti and joy if Half-Life 3 or Episode 3 is announced at E3. And now Shogun Total War 2 is coming out too! Wahoo!

I think Morrigan's story already has enough tragedy with her leaving the Warden behind.

If they continue it in some future title only for her to die or meet some other gruesome fate, then I'll be be royaly ticked off.

At the very least they could allow us, the players, to decide what happens to Morrigan based on our actions, just like we could determine Alistair's faith in Origins.
Another plot hammer moment, just for the sake of "tragedy", would really kill my interest in DA.

Ah... the DR returneth...

I agree pretty much with everything MS states.

I just fininshed up another playthrough recently and started over-analyzing it again, and it just seems by the disjointed feel, like they had it set up one way, and then at the last minute tried inserting a major change. Changed to or change from, I haven't a clue, it just gives me that feel. 

[blademaster7]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

How am I missing the point, I was simply responding to people saying the scene was so bland and had no atmosphere.

No mod is going to fix that I'm afraid. A better sex scene would be welcome, I guess, but that's not what we really wanted.

Anyway, don't you guys think it's time to drop the never ending DR discussion?

[Giggles_Manically]

Well concerning Morrigan the DR is the largest topic, while with Alistair it is the Landsmeet and Loghain. Not talking about the DR is like trying to talk about Darth Vader, without talking about the Dark Side.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

Anyway, don't you guys think it's time to drop the never ending DR discussion?

NEVER!!!!!!

I keed, I keed.... But hopefully once E3 rolls around we'll have some sort of new discussion material because the well is running rather dry as of late. There are only so many ways you can say how BioWare dropped the ball with the DR for the romancing Warden or speculate the pros and cons of reuniting the Warden and Morrigan or how the OGB could fit into the future games.
We need some new info to speculate on and make totally myopic comments about, dammit!

[Swoo]

This may be old news to some of you guys, but I had to post it on the off chance it is as new to you as it was me. There is a team converting Baldurs Gate 2 over to the DA engine, complete with cutscenes and linking up all the voice acting.



Miiiiiiinsc!









http://www.gamersnexus.net/bgr-home

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

This may be old news to some of you guys, but I had to post it on the off chance it is as new to you as it was me. There is a team converting Baldurs Gate 2 over to the DA engine, complete with cutscenes and linking up all the voice acting.

Miiiiiiinsc!

Thats pretty damn ambitious, but very cool nevertheless. They surely have to throw in the "You must gather your party before venturing forth!" guy. Hell, as annoying as he may have been I would have loved it if they included that voice over in DA just for teh lulz....

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 juin 2010 - 02:32 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Master Shiori wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

bl00dsh0t wrote...

Haha one mention of the dr and the thread is back in action xD

Well it is one hell of a shame that gaider's vision of how it was supposed to happen got cut down to what was there. Nice to know that it was meant to be so much more though, does give some hope for morrigan as a character at least.

Edit: Btw it seems HL2 ep 3 is about to be announced, damn the amount of E3 excitement is getting redicolous xD

See thats the thing for me- I'm perfectly ok with Gaider and company going the whole dark and tragic route with Morrigan if thats what they really want to do. But if they're going to do that, they can't cut corners on the pivotal scenes revealing the tragedy, like the DR.

I know cuts always have to be made, but just don't nerf the climax scenes at the end of the game where everything is supposed to be coming together into one big crescendo of emotional engagement. The thing with the DR is that for those of us involved in the Morrigan romance, thats when you're most engaged and coincidentally when your BS meter is going pretty high. So you'll  notice any cut corners or plot hammer moments pretty easily there. Don't cheap out on the endings, is all I hope for going forward.

And yes, my head will explode into a mass of confetti and joy if Half-Life 3 or Episode 3 is announced at E3. And now Shogun Total War 2 is coming out too! Wahoo!

I think Morrigan's story already has enough tragedy with her leaving the Warden behind.

If they continue it in some future title only for her to die or meet some other gruesome fate, then I'll be be royaly ticked off.

At the very least they could allow us, the players, to decide what happens to Morrigan based on our actions, just like we could determine Alistair's faith in Origins.
Another plot hammer moment, just for the sake of "tragedy", would really kill my interest in DA.

OK, just one more DR comment, then I promise to step back...

Agree with the good Master here, but my interest really started to wane when I picked up Mass Effect and felt that all powerful epic feel at the end.   I seriously thought DA:O was going there while I was playing it, then the DR happened, then nothing...fizzle.  To me the end was sort of a helpless wimper instead of the awesome bang I thought I was paying for.  I ended up making 5 playthroughs hoping to understand what was going on and make sense of the experience being that I was new to this sort of gaming.  I finally had to man up and off my Warden to even come close to that epic feel I was looking for at the end (US).  I still really don't get it, but have come to the conclusion that it just must be me (although I know a few here agree with me) and that this sort of genre is just not my bag.  I loved the gameplay, the combat, the inventory, the micromanagement of certain aspects, but the story just sucked for me with the expectations I have of a video game.

We are constantly told this is 'Dark Fantasy.'  What is that exactly?  Tragic?  Dark and morbid?  Love and loss?  Some have said that what defines the genre is that you have to give up something to get something.  I felt nothing but tragedy at the end (and it was not that "Wow, how tragic and what a loss, but how beautiful it was." Sorry, just didn't see it--at all).  Awakenings took on a whole new level of darkness and morbity with the Mother.  So maybe it's all of the above.

If that's the case, then is this really a good genre for video gaming where the (as blademaster said above) PC is the same as the audience?  I'm leaning toward the NO bandwagon here and have beaten this drum for months now.  I think BW is on thin ice with their love affair with tragedy and darkness.  Seriously, how deep is the player base well going to be if there is nothing fulfilling to really to hang your hat on at the end, or no bones are thrown to the player in Dragon Age games?  BTW, I think darkness is OK, even necessary in good story telling, as long as there's a flicker of light to destroy it at the end. 

Anyway, just thinking out loud here.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 06 juin 2010 - 04:21 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Well Dragon Age was going to be a lot richer and fuller game, until EA happened. T get everything out in time for the holidays corners were cut. If people look at the toolset there is so much that was unimplemented, and from devs so many ideas thrown out. The best thing for Bioware, after TOR, and ME3 gets released is for EA to implode and have them get back to what made them great. Jade Empire and KOTOR are still my favourite Bioware games.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 06 juin 2010 - 04:34 .

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well Dragon Age was going to be a lot richer and fuller game, until EA happened. T get everything out in time for the holidays corners were cut. If people look at the toolset there is so much that was unimplemented, and from devs so many ideas thrown out. The best thing for Bioware, after TOR, and ME3 gets released is for EA to implode and have them get back to what made them great. Jade Empire and KOTOR are still my favourite Bioware games.

I don't think the Holidays had anything to do with it, but thats my own opinion. The PC version was done in March, so its likely things just got sloppy which is likely very easy to do in a game as big as DAO as compared to your typical 5-10 hour FPS.

And for the life of me, I don't understand all the EA hate or everyone saying "Oh BioWare is being ruined by EA! I hope EA dies and BioWare can be set freeeee!" Maybe the quality of games wil decline with EA but the fact of the matter is that BioWare IS EA now. So if EA implodes or goes under SO DOES BIOWARE! BioWare isn't just in a publishing agreement with EA, they are one of EA's internal development studios, just like DICE with the Battlefield games.

So if anything, especially with EA's CEO John Riccitiello actually trying to emphasize quality games and new IP, we should hope EA does well, lest EA turn into an Activision/ Bobby Kotick style of operation where they run BioWare into the ground a la Infinity Ward.

Modifié par Brockololly, 06 juin 2010 - 06:01 .

[Vicious]

And for the life of me, I don't understand all the EA hate or everyone saying "Oh BioWare is being ruined by EA! I hope EA dies and BioWare can be set freeeee

THANK YOU.



People need to realize Bioware is PART of EA now. EA leaving is just not possible.



Besides, DA was a wildly different game when it was announced in 2001 than the one we recieved... if anything, EA coming into the picture actually got the damn thing released.



I remember when all the Bioware news was that they simply could not find anyone to publish their IP, Dragon Age, after they left Atari.

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...
We need some new info to speculate on and make totally myopic comments about, dammit!

Fingers crossed for a trailer at E3. I got tired of discussing the same things.