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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#3326
Master Shiori

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Swoo wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

When I see that dragon, the question I?m asking myself is not if it's DA 2 but rather what the symbolism of that dragon is....The rising dragon on that promo card makes me think we'll see another dragon opponent in DA 2 or whatever it is that's supposed to promote. With David Gaider saying DA 2 won't feature the darkspawn or another Blight, that leaves us with either a high dragon (not really a villain material) or an Old God...


I don't remember hearing anything about the card being inaccurate. If it has been reported someone fill me in on WTF!

Since the Dragon was 'just' a Blood Dragon it's hard for me to draw any conclusions at the moment from it other than 'Dragon Age....2!'. Heh. Sorry, that seems like a cop-out answer. 

Can I see the link to the no-Blight/Darkspawn? It's not that I doubt you, I just want to see what he said. Since I was mainly going on what I had ingame to guess towards DA2, I put some stock in the 2 Old Gods remaining and Awakening hinting that another Blight had already begun before the old one had even truly ended.


I don't have the link, but it's been said repeatedly by the people on this forum.

And it does make sense to move away from the darkspawn after having 1 game and an expansion based around them.

#3327
Swoo

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Herr Uhl wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

"Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment". One of the wise phrases of the Imperium of Man.


The cruel irony to it all at the end of the day? The Old Republic trailer's name is "Hope." :pinched:


I still wonder why he tries to attack the sith with a knife when a grenade launcher to the chest only slightly annoyed him.


It would have been cool if he actual would have fought through the lightning to actually land a knife strike, but going down like it did I have to side with you. It was up there in the Riordan School of Tactical Planning on the fly.

My bigger thing was since when do grenades go off in someones hand and they just dirty you up a bit? Ok, the Sith is flat-out magic, his plot armor can take it, but the grunt? Even a super-grunt? That was a bit silly.

#3328
Swoo

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Master Shiori wrote...

I don't have the link, but it's been said repeatedly by the people on this forum.

And it does make sense to move away from the darkspawn after having 1 game and an expansion based around them.


Oh, agreed. I would imagine it would go like Biowares other games and they would take a more 'secondary' position in the hierarchy of villanous enemies, but I'll be shocked if we don't see at least some darkspawn maneuverings and maybe a rumble or two about the Old Gods in the sequel.

I'm hoping for total war myself. The fraternities of the Magi split off starting a war with the Chantry, the Qunari show up warring with gunpowder and greatswords versus magic and human 'spirit', the Orleasean/Ferelden problems boil to an unmanagable point, the Teventir empire and maybe the Weishauppt forces play larger roles, and of course the OGB.

But yeah, I'd love to see a more 'Game of Thrones' -eqsue plot worked in with the political machinations backed up by royal/noble/foreign armors really making a clusterf--- of the world.

#3329
ximena

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Why hello there guys! New pages are up

27
28
29

Modifié par ximena, 15 juin 2010 - 11:19 .


#3330
soignee

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ximena wrote...

Why hello there guys! New pages are up

27
28
29


huzzah!
*scurries off to read*

Oh man, Ximena why you do this to me. :( *is not crying at workkkkkk*

#3331
ximena

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Ohgod. *hugs* Sorry for that. D: I thought the last page would elicit giggles and chuckles but then it turned out emotional too. >_>

#3332
Master Shiori

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*pries himself away from reading the pages*



These last few pages are just perfect.



I love them!



Great work on the first chapter Ximena. Looking forward to chapter 2.

#3333
ximena

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But wait! It's not done yet! XD

#3334
Master Shiori

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What? There's more?!



*runs off to Ximena's gallery*

#3335
ximena

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No. Not yet. Ahaha. I haven't uploaded it yet. I still have to color it and set letters. XD

#3336
Master Shiori

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Alright, I'll be patient.



But even without knowing what's on that last page I can say the first chapter has been awesome.



A truly emotional read.



Makes me wish we got that kind of resolution in a future DA game...

#3337
Brockololly

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Master Shiori wrote...

When I see that dragon, the question I'm asking myself is not if it's DA 2 but rather what the symbolism of that dragon is.


I try not to get into too much symbolism with that card- I'll go so far as to say "Hey! Its a bloody dragon, probably a new Dragon Age game in February!"


Master Shiori wrote...
The rising dragon on that promo card makes me think we'll see another dragon opponent in DA 2 or whatever it is that's supposed to promote. With David Gaider saying DA 2 won't feature the darkspawn or another Blight, that leaves us with either a high dragon (not really a villain material) or an Old God...


Well, we don't know that the dragon on the card is going to be the box art for DA2- it could just be some promotional image. I beleive Gaider mentioned that he wouldn't be to keen on having DA2 involve Yet Another Blight. But like we saw with Awakening just because there isn't an Archdemon doesn't mean that the darkspawn still aren't around. But I think so much depends on whether we play as the Warden again. If we're playing as the Warden again, then it would still make sense to run into the darkspawn. Maybe in a lesser role, sort of like the Geth's role in ME2.

But it is the DRAGON age after all- so regardless, we should expect more dragons, right? And the Old God Baby and Morrigan no doubt would tie into that somehow, what with the OLd God Baby essentially having the soul of a dragon.


Master Shiori wrote...
I'm not 100% about the following, but didn't someone from EA say that the date on that card isn't accurate?

That would mean whatever Bioware is working on probably won't come out in February 2011.


Hmmmm... I scrounge the Internets and the forums here for most DA stuff and I can't recall anything  like that. I know Priestly has posted cryptic stuff like "Dragon 2 ? Whats that?" or I think he posted in  a thread about 2/1/2011: "Well, I know what it is, but I think all I'll say is that this will be a
pretty cool date for fans of Dragon Age."

Swoo wrote...
I just don't get The Witcher love here though. I went and picked up on
the cheap recently and so far, so horrible. The combat is like kicking a
field goal in Madden (ugh), the voice actors are like the first time I
heard Sandal (before being told he was Lyrium addled), and the amnesia
thing doesn't cut it a bit when they so heavy handedly 'hint' at what
I'm sure the reveal will be deeper in the game. 


The Witcher is definitely flawed but for what it is, I enjoyed it. I kind of grade it on a curve compared to something like Dragon Age- it was made by a small Polish studio as independent developers and all told its pretty good for their first game. But make sure you've got the enhanced edition- it fixes alot of the problems and bad voice acting that the game had when it originally came out and is free to download if you don't have.That said, the combat isn't great, but you get used to it. The voice acting and writing are fairly crummy, but if you switch the language to Polish, it makes it like a foreign film!

Basically the story starts out really slow but by the time you get to the first city or even after that, the story picks up and gets interesting. The other thing is that you make a lot of choices really early on that you might not think are big, but you definitely see the consequences by the end of the game. The Witcher gets some love from me, becaus the devs seem to really care about their product and despite  its lack of polish, it really plays with some interesting ideas and doesn't have your typical BioWare RPG story.

Swoo wrote...
Can I see the link to the
no-Blight/Darkspawn? It's not that I doubt
you, I just want to see what he said. Since I was mainly going on what
I had ingame to guess towards DA2, I put some stock in the 2 Old Gods
remaining and Awakening hinting that another Blight had already begun
before the old one had even truly ended.


Here is the thread and here is the quote from Gaider:

David Gaider wrote...

I think the plot of any future
Dragon Age story revolving around YAB (Yet Another Blight) would
probably be something we'd avoid.


Its kind of curious though, that the Orlesian Warden's epilogue focuses on a possible Blight starting. Unless of course that just means we really should ignore the epilogues as total rumor and rubbish. Then again, maybe all Gaider's quote means is that we wouldn't have a typical Blight like we had in Origins. They could always put a spin on it, like getting the Old God Baby or Architect or Awakened darkspawn involved somehow.  But so much depends on whether we're playing as the Warden....

ximena wrote...

Why hello there guys! New pages are up


AWESOME! Hot stuff there on the last page!B)

#3338
Master Shiori

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Well that TOR trailer from E3 has rekindled my interest in Old Republic era Star Wars.



Also, after browsing the forums I found out that he current grand master of the Jedi Order is a descendant of Revan and Bastila.



Just one more reason for me to check out TOR.



Also, Mass Effect Overlord DLC should be released today, so that's more BIoware goodies to keep me occupied.



Sad we can't get some DA news, but I have a feeling that we might hear something at Gamescon in August. That would be 6 months before that supposed 2/1/2011 release.

#3339
Brockololly

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Oh and very pretty new Shogun 2 screenshots!

http://kotaku.com/55...-e3-screenshots



Not sure whether I'll pick up Overlord, I haven't touched ME2 in ages. I'll be curious if Overlord is actually as polished as BioWare has said it is and whether or not its actually anything significant story wise.

#3340
Giggles_Manically

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Damn there is no chance my laptop will be able to play SHOGUN 2 I can just squeak empire in, I doubt that will be able to run on it.

#3341
Barbarossa2010

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Brockololly wrote...


...Well, we don't know that the dragon on the card is going to be the box art for DA2- it could just be some promotional image. I beleive Gaider mentioned that he wouldn't be to keen on having DA2 involve Yet Another Blight. But like we saw with Awakening just because there isn't an Archdemon doesn't mean that the darkspawn still aren't around. But I think so much depends on whether we play as the Warden again. If we're playing as the Warden again, then it would still make sense to run into the darkspawn. Maybe in a lesser role, sort of like the Geth's role in ME2.

...Hmmmm... I scrounge the Internets and the forums here for most DA stuff and I can't recall anything  like that. I know Priestly has posted cryptic stuff like "Dragon 2 ? Whats that?" or I think he posted in  a thread about 2/1/2011: "Well, I know what it is, but I think all I'll say is that this will be a
pretty cool date for fans of Dragon Age."


On point 1, quite frankly Gaider is speaking from a position of already knowing what the future holds.  Sure there is room for tweaking things based upon player feedback but the main story is set and he knows what it is.  I personally think Awakenings added on it's thin veneer of continuity only after initial player responses- I personally think the Orlesian Warden was originally intended as the sole playthrough. This only makes sense based upon the weirdness experienced by the imported Warden.  I just think Gaider is not a credible source of what the future holds (AT THIS EARLY POINT ONLY!) in that regard, because you must take with a grain of salt whatever he says.  He might be telling the truth or managing expectations or engaging in outright deception for PR purposes to throw fanatics off the scent.  Figuring that out is very difficult (if not futile) and to cover himself he can always say later that things change or we decided doing this was actually in the best interest of the story.

On point 2, the Bazaar and Darkspawn Chronicles were probably perceived by members of the DA Team as "pretty cool dates for fans of Dragon Age" also.  Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one.Posted Image

#3342
Brockololly

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Barbarossa2010 wrote...

On point 2, the Bazaar and Darkspawn Chronicles were probably perceived by members of the DA Team as "pretty cool dates for fans of Dragon Age" also.  Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one.Posted Image


Sad but true....:crying:

FWIW, there are good Steam deals all this week on EA games: http://www.hotukdeal...ea-titles-steam

Yesterday had both Crysis titles 50% off- looks like ME and DA will be on Saturday and Sunday.

#3343
blademaster7

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Barbarossa2010 wrote...

On point 2, the Bazaar and Darkspawn Chronicles were probably perceived by members of the DA Team as "pretty cool dates for fans of Dragon Age" also.  Sorry, couldn't help myself on that one.Posted Image

So true, so true.

That kind of crap end up hurting the DAO name instead of popularizing it.

I wonder what are they gonna pull with that 02/01 date...

Modifié par blademaster7, 15 juin 2010 - 03:13 .


#3344
Master Shiori

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While Bazaar was an epic disappointment for anyone not living in the States and Darkspawn Chronicles contained none of the elements that fans loved about Origins, we can't say whether or not they were successful without knowing what the sale numbers were like.

For all we know, people on these forums might not like Darkspawn Chronicles but it sold well to those who enjoyed Origins and Awakening but cannot be considered "hardcore" fans, since they don't frequent these forums.



As for David Gaider, he certainly has at least a rough road map of where the DA franchise will go, game wise.

I'm willing to bet he knew exactly what the story of DA2 is going to be even before Origins was released.

At this point starting a new story with a new lead is a lot easier then keeping the Warden around. As long as the story is good and it sells well Bioware won't care about what people on these forums think about continuity or companions from Origins. To them we're a source of feedback on game features, but our opinion doesn't matter past the game we're playing.



Right now the chances of seeing the Warden again aren't exactly good, but that doesn't mean there won't be any continuity between DA:O and DA 2. It also doesn't mean that Morrigan's story won't continue or get the needed closure.



In all honesty I don't think Bioware will cut all ties with events in Origins and it's respective characters. If I have to take a guess I'd say we're likely looking at a new story, new land, new characters with a few old faces thrown in as either npcs or even companions, some events from Origins having an impact on the new story and probably some things from the previous game being made canon (for better or for worse).



For those of us who love Morrigan, I don't think we should expect sunshine and rainbows, but it won't be all doom and gloom either. As is usually the case reality will most likely fall somewhere in the middle.

#3345
blademaster7

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Honestly, I have no problem with playing a whole new game with new characters. Provided of course they tie up the loose ends. All I want is a decent closure to the story the Warden.

I even jumped on the king/queen bandwagon just to see what so great about it. I invested so much time to get my "perfect" ending and then Awakening crapped all over my character. He left the court and disappeared... WTF

I just don't trust them enough to buy their next game if it ends up following the same formula.

Investing all that time and effort into the game and just when you thought you accomplished something.... BUZZ

"Sorry Mario, but the princess is in another castle"

And then the game abruptly ends there without having the option to go to another castle.

Sorry, not interested in more of the same.

Modifié par blademaster7, 15 juin 2010 - 06:05 .


#3346
Master Shiori

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blademaster7 wrote...

Honestly, I have no problem with playing a whole new game with new characters. Provided of course they tie up the loose ends. All I want is a decent closure to the story the Warden.

I even jumped on the king/queen bandwagon just to see what so great about it. I invested so much time to get my "perfect" ending and then Awakening crapped all over my character. He left the court and disappeared... WTF

I just don't trust them to deliver a game that doesn't follow the same formula.

Investing all that time and effort into the game and just when you thought you accomplished something.... BUZZ

"Sorry Mario, but the princess is in another castle"

And then the game abruptly ends there without having the option to go to another castle.

Sorry, not interested in more of the same.



That's the core of the problem right there - lack of closure.

Most people on these forums (myself included) aren't against playing as a new character. We simply don't want to leave lose ends that never get resolved.
To me at least, based on the events in Origins, Morrigan's story feels like it just started. There are so many questions left concerning her plan, DR and the god child. I don't want to simply ignore all that and move on for the sake of simplicity.

If that happens, what guarantee do I have that there won't be a similar scenario in future DA titles? That there won't be another Morrigan whose story will be a lose end that never gets resolved? Several years from now I don't want to look back on Dragon Age as a series of games with a dozen lose ends and unfinished tales.

Bioware told great stand alone stories before in shape of KOTOR 1 and Jade Empire. Those tales had a clear ending and, while I loved their characters as much as I love those in Mass Effect or Dragon Age, I wasn't sad to move on and leave them behind because their story was done.
That's not the feeling I got after having finished Origins and Awakening. I'm not left with a clear end, but rather with a dozen unanswered questions. And as a fan of the game I'm not willing to simply ignore that and move on as if they never happened.

#3347
Brockololly

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Master Shiori wrote...

While Bazaar was an epic disappointment for anyone not living in the States and Darkspawn Chronicles contained none of the elements that fans loved about Origins, we can't say whether or not they were successful without knowing what the sale numbers were like.
For all we know, people on these forums might not like Darkspawn Chronicles but it sold well to those who enjoyed Origins and Awakening but cannot be considered "hardcore" fans, since they don't frequent these forums.


Which is what worries me- if drivel like Darkspawn Chronicles is selling well, ugh. Of course, we likely will never know, but I really could care less about that kind of thing. If I want an action game, I'll go some place else for that. I understand BioWare's desire to experiment, but at the same time I'd just like to see some DLC that takes the good from Origins and expands on it, rather than seemingly regurgitating old content back at us with a different coat of paint. Something that adds value to the Origins experience- and from my POV, adding lore and story is worth that, while more combat isn't. Obviously others think differently, but so far the DLC has been lacking in lore. I'm not sweating that anymore though, I've given up hope in expecting good DA DLC, so if any does arrive it will be a pleasant surprise.

Sure enough the fans on the forums are a tiny sliver of the DA fanbase, but nevertheless we're probably the more vocal supporters or detractors of DA. I don't think you can downplay word of mouth- I told all my friends about Origins and a good chunk of them bought it, including some who likely wouldn't have otherwise. Yet I only gave them luke warm recommendations on Awakening. That sort of word of mouth isn't necessarily going to be quantified and measured by EA, except only in the sales. 

Obviously BioWare can do whatever they want with DA and no doubt the die has already been cast, but IMO, they'd be fools to just completely ignore or marginalize certain  elements from Origins that the "hardcore" might have enjoyed more than others. Especially with a sequel, the fanbase has a certain set of basic expectations and when the time comes, I just hope BioWare adequately communicates their vision, something we have no clue what they're doing right now.

Master Shiori wrote...

At this point starting a new story with a new lead is a lot easier then keeping the Warden around. As long as the story is good and it sells well Bioware won't care about what people on these forums think about continuity or companions from Origins. To them we're a source of feedback on game features, but our opinion doesn't matter past the game we're playing.


Most likely starting fresh is easier, but to just leave the Warden hanging as a result of moving on? Even if the next game was freakin' amazing, if they're just going to treat prior characters like disposable cogs, then I'd have no interest in the new game seeing as they'd just be forgotten when DA3 comes around. Thats not to say I want precise continuity, but at the end of Origins the book is still open on so much material. Don't expect me to contently move on until you've finished the story and clearly closed the book on the Warden and his/her companions. Obviously thats not a problem with the US, but for everyone else...well I think thats territory already well treaded in this thread=]


Master Shiori wrote...

In all honesty I don't think Bioware will cut all ties with events in Origins and it's respective characters. If I have to take a guess I'd say we're likely looking at a new story, new land, new characters with a few old faces thrown in as either npcs or even companions, some events from Origins having an impact on the new story and probably some things from the previous game being made canon (for better or for worse).

For those of us who love Morrigan, I don't think we should expect sunshine and rainbows, but it won't be all doom and gloom either. As is usually the case reality will most likely fall somewhere in the middle.


*Begin rant*

Its been said a million times before in this thread but I'll say it again. Going that kind of mushy middle route where you're a new PC who runs across Origins characters is IMO, one of the worst ways to go. Sure in some ways it might make sense plot wise, but like having a new PC run into Morrigan it just kills any immersion or emotional engagement I'd have. You're not thinking in the mind of that new PC, but rather "Oh thats Morrigan from Origins!" and of course Morrigan wouldn't react to you the player, but rather the new chump PC.

Everything you've built up in Origins is gone once you're a new PC and you start from scratch. Thats fine, but give closure to the Warden and those characters 1st! Oh, but we're only playing the game in front of us and we should only enjoy that story and set of characters for what they are in that one story. Thats understandable, until you go about the epilogues and sequel bait them with plot hooks galore. Or the whole DR and Morrigan mysteriously vanishing- thats within this game, but  I'm supposed to just take that for what it is and not expect anything more from that? What about consequences for your actions? Vashedan, I say, pure vashedan.

I'll just be sorely disappointed if the Warden doesn't return or continuity is marginalized before getting closure with the Warden and Morrigan and the other Origins companions. When they say DA is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, to me thats not so much the gameplay or anything, but  your ability to continue as one PC with similar companions across a couple games. New companions are great, but its so much more rewarding to see  the changes and character development of a character over time rather than just getting more backstories for an endless barrage of new characters who will only ever be seen in one game. 

Yet if DA goes the Neverwinter Nights route of disposable PC's and totally new stories from game to game witrh only tenuous threads of continuity- count me out.

#3348
Brockololly

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Master Shiori wrote...

Bioware told great stand alone stories before in shape of KOTOR 1 and Jade Empire. Those tales had a clear ending and, while I loved their characters as much as I love those in Mass Effect or Dragon Age, I wasn't sad to move on and leave them behind because their story was done.
That's not the feeling I got after having finished Origins and Awakening. I'm not left with a clear end, but rather with a dozen unanswered questions. And as a fan of the game I'm not willing to simply ignore that and move on as if they never happened.


Bingo- you said it way more succinctly than I could have!:happy:

KOTOR1, JE and even Throne of Bhaal, felt like they had a definitive end, where despite loving the characters and everything, you had your closure. You might still want to explore more of those game universes, but the games gave you a sense of completion. ME3 will likely do the same.

Yet with Origins, unless you do the US, I just felt hardly any closure at all. If anything, in Origins and Awakening the last 10%  of either game only serves to raise more questions and introduce plot threads like the Old God Baby than it does to tie stuff off. Sure you kill off the big boss and save tha day, but only at the cost of introducing so many other elements, that leaves me feeling supremely unsatisfied.

And if BioWare just moves on without answering all these questions or trying to just brush them under the rug, then thats not the kind of game I want to play. Now maybe we will get resolution and closure in DA2, but right now we're have no clue what direction DA is going, so of course expectations will rage. We're just being treated like mushrooms: feed them **** and keep them in the dark. (hyperbole, I know, but I like that line;))

#3349
blademaster7

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I hope you guys don't mind me copying your posts and pasting them in MS Word. Next time someone asks why do people want the Warden in DA2 I'm gonna unleash a huge response with all those quotes. :D

I'm sure it will be a good read.

Modifié par blademaster7, 15 juin 2010 - 07:32 .


#3350
Master Shiori

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Brock, I agree with you on many points you're listed, especially concerning fans on the forums, continuity and choices carrying over.

For the fan part, while it's true that we represent only a small part of 3.2 million people who bought DA:O, we are the only group that is willing to provide regular feedback on game mechanics, story and characters. Sure, we do feel strongly about certain story lines or characters and therefore want to see those things be given proper closure.

The biggest problem for Dragon Age is that, unlike Mass Effect, the developers have never presented us with a clear vision of what to expect in the long run.
We knew from day 1 that ME trilogy will be Commander Shepards story and that choices, love interests and other things will carry over from 1 game into the other.
By comparison we've never been given the idea of what the developers want to achieve with Dragon Age as a franchise. Is it supposed to be a series of games where our choices carry on and affect the future events and titles? Is it a series of stand alone games that aren't connected in any way, other than taking place in the same setting?

It's this lack of basic information about the franchise that is making people nervous and frustrated. Imagine if we knew the answers to these questions before Origins came out how different our expectations and commitment would have been. There would not be all these topics about people calling for continuation or the return of certain characters.
I imagine that David Gaider and other writers and developers would have an easier time on these forums and would face less frustration on daily basis.

As it is we don't know where this is all headed. We don't know if things that we love and which matter to us will ever get proper closure.
These things are testing our patience just as they are testing the patience of writers themselves.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 15 juin 2010 - 08:40 .