16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Arttis]

Well one problem i see with continuing the warden in DA2...

Is that unless they make a ton of mentions about him and the past people will be quite disappointed.That means more time spent adding things.Making a new Warden or character you can avoid that.Also i saw a dev comment talking about how the game was more about building up your greywarden in the game.*cant remmeber where*

If thats true and they are trying for the same again than making a new grey warden would fit better.Am i making any sense here?*did not read your entire rant*

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...

A couple thoughts:

So it seems that the Overlord DLC for ME2 is story driven and actually pretty good by most accounts, minus the fact that no squad mates have much to say besides Legion. Still, it seems thats 2/2 for decent paid DLC for ME2, with Kasumi being the other. Its a shame DA isn't the same outside of Warden's Keep and (sort of) RtO.

There's a new ME2 DLC and it's story related? I'll have to check it out later...[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/happy.png[/smilie]

Brockololly wrote...
Oh and in this thread about the merits of the DR vs. US, Swoo you mentioned this:

Swoo wrote...
One of the problems with it is that the Dark Ritual wasn't intended for the game, the Ultimate Sacrifice was supposed to be the only ending, and then Bioware decided they wanted to have the option to keep the Warden around so they spliced in the DR; We need Brock here, he tracks down these BW quotes like a bloodhound. Soit's hard to tell exactly what's deception and what's just inconsistency from weaving a new plot thread in.

From everything I can recall, I cannot ever remember seeing a BioWare person claim the DR was added in late or that the US was originally supposed to be the only ending. I might take a look later today to see if I can dig anything up, but all I remember was that some posters  (maybe Glenboy24 or something?) earlier in this thread mentioned how they thought the DR was tacked on at the end to allow for continuity based on the success of ME. But I have not seen any interview with BioWare people or forum posts to substantiate this.

But its much the same as Awakening from my POV- if the DR was added late, that hopefully explains some of the crumminess of the DR scene for Morrigan romancers and such. Much the same way that playing as an Orlesian warden seems to flow better in Awakening versus the seemingly tacked on continuity of the Warden. But nobody knows if either the DR or the Warden in Awakening were just tacked on or if they were the result of crummy implementation. I'd like to think they were just crummy last minute thoughts; at least that explains their uninspiring presence.

I'd have to echo Brock's thinking here. If the DR had truly never been a planned component of DA:O's storyline, then surely that would severely undermine any possibility of Morri reappearing in the future, when its fairly evident they meant for her reappear in the future, presumably with an important role in the story. Without the DR/OGB angle allowing you to escape the US, she'd essentailly just be another party member when all's said and done. Add to this the fact that a lot of people dislike games where the protagonist dies by default at the end unless there is meaning in said person's death. Joining the Grey Wardens is not a choice in DA:O, and if we're roleplaying then not all warden PCs would be willing to sacrifice themselves at the climax, thus enforcing the US as the only possible outcome would likely displease many players.

Of course if the DR was always a planned part, how do we explain the fact the variant DR scenes for romancing & friendly wardens that Gaider has alluded to got cut. I still find it unbelievable that the "payoff" scene (and one of the most pivotal moments in the game for that matter) for the cover girl were given such low priority considering the male fanbase. Surely a few extra lines and a couple of new animations can't be that taxing to add or cause the project to miss the publishers expected milestones... Just another mystery to ponder I guess.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 16 juin 2010 - 03:32 .

[Master Shiori]

Arttis wrote...

Well one problem i see with continuing the warden in DA2...
Is that unless they make a ton of mentions about him and the past people will be quite disappointed.That means more time spent adding things.Making a new Warden or character you can avoid that.Also i saw a dev comment talking about how the game was more about building up your greywarden in the game.*cant remmeber where*
If thats true and they are trying for the same again than making a new grey warden would fit better.Am i making any sense here?*did not read your entire rant*

I get what you're saying but it really isn't a big problem.

Awakening didn't mention your choices in Origins, but your character still had a history and sometimes your class, race or origin would be acknowledged (Velanna rsponding a bit differently to a dalish elf or Anders to a mage).

Also, it's practically a given that the next DA game won't take place in Ferelden. This means that moving the Warden to another country would free the devs from having to mention every single choice you made during Origins and could pick which choices should be recognized in the new game (this can be done as codex entries regarding Ferelden's king or queen for instance or who rules in Orzammar based on how you did Paragon of her Kind). This solution already exists in Origins.

Finally, even if they do allow us to import our Wardens, there will always be the option of creating a new character. This means you can start with a clean slate if you want to. It really comes down to choice which is always a good thing. Importing the Warden gives you a sense of history and accomplishment.

[blademaster7]

Sigh...

You know, one of the(many) reasons I wanted a DA2 announcement at E3 was to just to get this "Warden vs New Character" debate out of the way...

I guess we will have to WAIT for a bit longer to find out.... as usual.

[Master Shiori]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Oh and in this thread about the merits of the DR vs. US, Swoo you mentioned this:

Swoo wrote...
One of the problems with it is that the Dark Ritual wasn't intended for the game, the Ultimate Sacrifice was supposed to be the only ending, and then Bioware decided they wanted to have the option to keep the Warden around so they spliced in the DR; We need Brock here, he tracks down these BW quotes like a bloodhound. Soit's hard to tell exactly what's deception and what's just inconsistency from weaving a new plot thread in.

From everything I can recall, I cannot ever remember seeing a BioWare person claim the DR was added in late or that the US was originally supposed to be the only ending. I might take a look later today to see if I can dig anything up, but all I remember was that some posters  (maybe Glenboy24 or something?) earlier in this thread mentioned how they thought the DR was tacked on at the end to allow for continuity based on the success of ME. But I have not seen any interview with BioWare people or forum posts to substantiate this.

But its much the same as Awakening from my POV- if the DR was added late, that hopefully explains some of the crumminess of the DR scene for Morrigan romancers and such. Much the same way that playing as an Orlesian warden seems to flow better in Awakening versus the seemingly tacked on continuity of the Warden. But nobody knows if either the DR or the Warden in Awakening were just tacked on or if they were the result of crummy implementation. I'd like to think they were just crummy last minute thoughts; at least that explains their uninspiring presence.

I'd have to echo Brock's thinking here. If the DR had truly never been a planned component of DA:O's storyline, then surely that would severely undermine any possibility of Morri reappearing in the future, when its fairly evident they meant for her reappear in the future, presumably with an important role in the story. Without the DR/OGB angle allowing you to escape the US, she'd essentailly just be another party member when all's said and done. Add to this the fact that a lot of people dislike games where the protagonist dies by default at the end unless there is meaning in said person's death. Joining the Grey Wardens is not a choice in DA:O, and if we're roleplaying then not all warden PCs would be willing to sacrifice themselves at the climax, thus enforcing the US as the only possible outcome would likely displease many players.

Of course if the DR was always a planned part, how do we explain the fact the variant DR scenes for romancing & friendly wardens that Gaider has alluded to got cut. I still find it unbelievable that the "payoff" scene (and one of the most pivotal moments in the game for that matter) for the cover girl were given such low priority considering the male fanbase. Surely a few extra lines and a couple of new animations can't be that taxing to add or cause the project to miss the publishers expected milestones... Just another mystery to ponder I guess.

The way I see it is this:

UC was, at some point, planned as the "default" ending because Bioware probably wanted for each DA game to be a self contained story with a new character, new companions, etc. 
Awakening was supposed to be a small story of Orlesian Warden Commnader dealing with the fallout from Origins.

Now, I can only speculate as to what happened, but somewhere during the development circle it was obvious that plans changed for some reason and devs decided to give us the chance of a "happy" ending. Thus they needed a way to avoid the whole "Warden kills the Archdemon and dies in the process". This is where the while DR and god child came in. Now, keep in mind that the writers could have easily made this some sort of a magical ritual that wouldn't have long lasting consequences for the world. The fact that they went with the whole "child with a soul of an old god" route wasn't an accident. It could very well be that they wanted to create a plot hook which can be explored in a future DA game. Even David Gaider himself, curiously enough, said something along the lines of "I don't understand why people believe that Morrigan's story is central to the whole DA series. It could very well  be true, but right now it's like watching the first 15 minutes of a movie and claiming to know exactly how the story will go". 

Now this could all be just wishful thinking on our part, but if it is true, the only reason I can think of that would make devs keep the Warden alive post Origins is because they might have plans for him in future titles.

[bl00dsh0t]

Hehe nice ranting been going on here, I approve

Also some nice new pages by ximena, the only thing missing is some god damn DA2

Still we have still got today and tomorrow worth of announcements left, the possebility is not 0. Also do take into account that if gamespot really had no idea it was coming why do they "speculate" in their daily episode about there perhaps being a new DA at E3? Sure it was only a quick mention, a la perhaps we see some new dragon age, but still you have to take into account that they are unlikely to just "predict" that DA2 and ME3 would be at the convention. Sure I'm grasping at straws here but its not unlikely that many of the big gaming sites already have a preview for DA2 planned and therefore they accidentaly added it to the floorplan before they were supposed to?

I attempt to keep the hope alive, join me in operation hope...it aint over till E3 closes its doors tomorrow, games are still being announced and pop up on sites everywhere so keeep it allivveeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

And no this has nothing to do with blade's promise to dance around naked if DA2 is announced

[Brockololly]

July 6th- Leliana prequel DLC

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...


July 6th- Leliana prequel DLC

Now that's what I expect from a DLC.

A chance to further explore your companions past and understand what made her into a person she is in Origins.

Ofc, the fact it's Leliana is a real bonus. 

Just from the description it sounds a hell of a lot better then Crapspawn Chronicles.

[Brockololly]

Yeah this is the sort of DLC I'll be happy to plunk down $7 for. Of course, I'm wondering now if this will be our first time seeing Orlais or if they'll find a way to regurgitate old assets again like RtO or Darkspawn Chronicles. Not exactly DA2, but this will fulfill my hope quota for now=]

[Master Shiori]

Well, they could be on a mission outside of Orlais.

But even if it is in Orlais I wouldn't expect any great insight. For a product that costs $7 you can expect to see the same surroundings as in Ferelden. The only difference will be people speaking with a french accent.

Honestly though, this is the kind of DLC I expect from Bioware. Something that adds to the story and character background.

Makes you wonder if this will be the only companion centric DLC down the line. Might we expect to see more of these kind of stories, but focusing on other companions.

What comes to mind: Sten's journey to Ferelden, Zevran's mission for the Crows, Morrigan exploring the world outside the Wilds, Alistair training to be a templar, etc.

There are a lot of possibilities.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 16 juin 2010 - 07:36 .

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

Makes you wonder if this will be the only companion centric DLC down the line. Might we expect to see more of these kind of stories, but focusing on other companions.

What comes to mind: Sten's journey to Ferelden, Zevran's mission for the Crows, Morrigan exploring the world outside the Wilds, Alistair training to be a templar, etc.

There are a lot of possibilities.

I would love to see something similar for Zevran as well. Not so interested in the past of my other companions.

[Master Shiori]

What?! No Morrigan love?



For shame Blademaster!



Seriously though, I think seeing something from Morrigan's past would be great. Might give us a better understanding of her childhood and of Flemeth.



But considering that would require hiring both Claudia Black and Kate Mulgrew to record just a few lines, I don't think it's likely to happen.

[Swoo]

Well, I know for a fact that I read that the US was the original ending and was changed later on. I will however admit the chance I am wrong about the DR and that was either taken from forum posters or my own fill in the blanks as to being a 'newer' option/ending.

Finally, even if they do allow us to import our Wardens, there will always be the option of creating a new character. This means you can start with a clean slate if you want to. It really comes down to choice which is always a good thing. Importing the Warden gives you a sense of history and accomplishment.

Shori hit's my biggest point, for sure. Other than advancing the game plot forwards several decades, there is NO reason to write off having our old Warden's if we want to other than 'just because'. And like he pointed out, just because they allow importation, that doesn't mean you can't have your new story option as well. I wish more people would see that both sides can get what they want instead of it being the you or me proposition that many want to take it as.

Its a shame DA isn't the same outside of Warden's Keep and (sort of) RtO.

DA isn't doing AS horrible with DLC as people want to make out. The Stone Prisoner is fantastic, and argue however we want it WAS cut out and could have been left on the scrap heap of 'almost made it' ideas. RtO and Wardens Keep both were quality DLC in my mind, Leliana's Song sounds like a great idea I will check out on day one. Feastday Pranks was just a silly one-off kind of addition that I have no interest in checking out, and Darkspawn Chronicles was a Diablo Clone that never should have existed.

Is that unless they make a ton of mentions about him and the past people will be quite disappointed.

We went over this before (Which isn't saying 'Learn to read, NOOB!', I wouldn't skim through 140 pages of a thread either), but what they need to mention to have legit continuity is honestly a lot more controlled than people imagine. If people's idea of continuity is 'I better see Bevin again, or I iced that little rat weasel Dwyn, I better hear about that' then that's just crazy-talk and they will never get that from any company. There's honestly only about 5-8 things they need to point back towards, and other than Nobility and LI's, none of them would need to be intricately weaved into the games metaplot.

Before anyone says it either, not being 'important in the grand scheme of things' or being huge, glaring spotlights on choice actions from a previous game does not mean it's just throwaway dialogue. The little things can build immersion. A culmination of six to seven lines of dialogue from Orleasan peasants about unease at the 'Undead monstrosity the Ferelden Arling across the mountains has become' would work absolutely fine. You don't need a quest hub for ever choice.

Just a lil' mini-rant.

Billbong, the author actually linked to some of the pages in the post below you. What timing!

Ximena, muy unfair answering me with artwork! Well played though. I personally believe that if she was romancing the Warden then that was the final nail into the DR. She wasn't going to take no as an answer because if she didn't get him to acquiesce then his soul was toast.

Definitely the best romance in the game. It has everything I love: conflict, denial of ones feelings, passion and giving in at the end.



Let's just hope it doesn't end with Origins...

Auuugh, that's what I'm saying! It's just TOO good. Odysseus doesn't get on a boat and then you cut to twenty years later and his nephew back home takes up the story, you see it through to the end! I understand Gaider and his myopic comment, I really do, but leaving such a powerful story by the wayside would just be insanity to me! And as I've said before, you can continue on with the OGB story without ruining any other non-DR playthroughs; Morrigan just told you the way that would save your life, she never said it was the ONLY way.

[Swoo]

Oh, sidenote. Someone here said they were using the Improved Shapeshifter mod, how did that turn out? I was looking through the forms and wondered if they kept it pretty balanced, or midway through the game do the forms basically turn into gigantic I WIN buttons?

[Master Shiori]

@Swoo

I'd also like to add that moving the story forward by several decades would make no sense whatsoever.

Thedas, as a setting, is still largely unknown and unexplored. Even if they wanted a new story with new protagonist and new companions all they need to do it have it take place in a different country. It could even be happening at the same time as Origins.

Jumping forward in time only makes sense in settings like Forgotten Realms or Star Wars where you have every little detail of a certain time period established and every corner of the world/galaxy explored so that the only way to tell new stories is to move the clock forward or backwards by a few decades/centuries.

Dragon Age is largely an unknown even after Origins and Awakening. What we did in those games was only scratching the surface of an iceberg. There is a ton of stuff we don't know, places we've only heard about and people we have yet to meet. Significant time jumps of any kind wouldn't really serve any purspose at this point.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 16 juin 2010 - 08:33 .

[Swoo]

This has been brought up a few times in all the Chantry-Girl's Song threads but I wondered what your guys and gals thoughts were. When the subject of other NPCs having a prequel of sorts, it seems pretty easy to come up with ideas for other companions but I keep drawing a blank with Morrigan.



It would be nice to see Morrigan/Flemeth interaction without witness' around, but I can't think of any story that sounds as compelling to play as being a betrayed spymaster or a antivan crow or seeing Sten and his 'Dirty Half-Dozen' Qunari team that ends in tragedy.

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

Oh, sidenote. Someone here said they were using the Improved Shapeshifter mod, how did that turn out? I was looking through the forms and wondered if they kept it pretty balanced, or midway through the game do the forms basically turn into gigantic I WIN buttons?

Well, I've been using it for my most recent play through. Haven't really been using it too much with Morrigan yet, at least the really advanced shapes so I can't say how balanced it is. I'm really using it mostly for the quicker casting.

I just find it amusingly buggy when you try to turn Morrigan into a genlock- you get the floaty head but then its slightly terrifying when she goes through the genlock animations as you can see here  .....

Scary Morrigan!


Nightmare fuel indeed!

Master Shiori wrote...

Dragon Age is largely an unknown even
after Origins and Awakening. What we did in those games was only
scratching the surface of an iceberg. There is a ton of stuff we don't
know, places we've only heard about and people we have yet to meet.
Significant time jumps of any kind wouldn't really serve any purspose at
this point.

Agreed- You see it alot that some people want DA2 to be 40 or 100 years later. What is the point in that? The whole time jump situation only makes sense once we've exhausted everything currently in Thedas and we've only scratched the surface! I just don't understand some people....

Swoo wrote...

This has been brought up a few times in all
the Chantry-Girl's Song threads but I wondered what your guys and gals
thoughts were. When the subject of other NPCs having a prequel of sorts,
it seems pretty easy to come up with ideas for other companions but I
keep drawing a blank with Morrigan.

It would be nice to see
Morrigan/Flemeth interaction without witness' around, but I can't think
of any story that sounds as compelling to play as being a betrayed
spymaster or a antivan crow or seeing Sten and his 'Dirty Half-Dozen'
Qunari team that ends in tragedy.

With Morrigan, if they were going to do a prequel type DLC, I guess they could maybe make up a sort of tale about maybe her and Flemeth being hunted by Templars. Not really sure- part of the reason I like Morrigan and some of the other companions is that their pasts aren't completely explained away and remain a mystery. If you make a DLC explaining away every little thing about Morrigan, that kind of takes away part of her charm, I think.

I'm all for character driven DLC like the Leliana one but still a couple things worry me:

-Who wrote it? 
Sheryl Chee wrote Leliana in Origins and I'd hate it if we get to the DLC and Leliana is acting totally and completely different. No doubt she'll be different as its a prequel back when she was a bard before her "vision" but its still Leliana. I 'm just concerned we'll end up with some of the fantastic writing like the codex entries from Darkspawn Chronicles or horribly out of character moments like Alistair and Wynne flirting in Return to Ostagar. I'm quite sure Chee didn't write RtO and as such we ended up with Wynne turning into a cougar and Alistair actually playing along. For God's sake, Alistair is supposed to treat Wynne like the mother he never had! This isn't to bash the other writers at BioWare, but I'm pretty sure the main writers like Gaider and Chee haven't had much to do with the DLC. Maybe thats different with this one? Don't know...

-Will the environments be new?
I'm wondering if this will take place in Orlais or not. And then even if it does, is it going to be a big, huge, iconic place like Val Royeaux or just some generic looking countryside/city? This isn't so much a complaint, but I just hope the look is at least not a copy/paste job like RtO or DC where they basically just kept the same levels found in Origins and slapped a slightly different color paint on it. So long as its not an area rehashed from Origins, thats fine by me.

-Is this just a way to finish the Origins characters off?
Wild conspiracy theories ahoy! I think its clear that many people still really care for many of the Origins companions and want closure with them and their stories. Some people want another expansion pack, others would prefer a sequel. Is this DLC BioWare's way of throwing the fans a bone before moving on to something entirely different in DA2?

And a slightly unrelated point, I've seen many people say how they specifically want another ex-pack to tie up the Warden and Morrigan story and all the other Origins loose ends. Then start DA2 fresh with all new everything. Really? I mean if BioWare could make an ex-pack in the mold of Throne of Bhaal rather than Awakening to finish everything up from Origins, that would be great.

But at the same time, I really want to see the Origins Warden and companions in the fancied up, "super hot" DA2 and all of the tweaks and changes that will bring. For all of out doubt and lack of hope, BG2 and ME2, BioWare's only true sequels, have both been pretty significant improvements (mostly) over their predecessors. WOuldn't you want to see the Origins stuff wrapped up in a full blown, full budget sequel instead of an ex-pack that only gets 1/10th the budget? Again, if the quality was there, I'd be ok with an expack to finish things off, but after Awakening, I really don't have much faith that BioWare could  tie up such loose ends adequately if expacks are just going to be like Awakening.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2010 - 03:36 .

[Swoo]

-Is this just a way to finish the Origins characters off?

Well, I think a prequel would be an ass-backwards way of finishing off a story, heh. My only real concern is the fact that prequels always fall into the prequel trap - we already know how it ends, so you lose a lot of the emotional payoff. Now, I'm not trying to negative Nancy the DLC, I actually plan on buying this one, just saying I am really interested to see if they can pull it off when the big reveal is already known to us.

Good points otherwise.

I just find it amusingly buggy when you try to turn Morrigan into a genlock- you get the floaty head but then its slightly terrifying when she goes through the genlock animations as you can see here  .....

Ah yes, I saw that it was buggy if NPCs used the new shapes instead of the PC. Those are some frightening screenshots. I want to try it out because the new forms look fun, but some of them just look ridiculous - like the fan made 20% crit weapons and such.

I would love to see something similar for Zevran as well. Not so interested in the past of my other companions.

I honestly don't know what companion I would really like to see in standalone modules. I guess if we could see the dark days of Dorf's, and watch Shayle of House Cadash go down the road into becoming a Golem, that could be cool as hell.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

I'm kind of worried on how the dialogue will go in the Leliana DLC. Is it all predetermined or do you get to choose how she will react. I would rather have the former if it is written in character than the latter.

My expectations for it is we will get to see how much Leliana "loved" Marjoliene(sp?), and how much she "loved" Leliana. Some cool assassin seduction dialogue. Find out what those "important" documents were. If it meets two of those three expectations I will be pleased.

I think the OGB/DR is safe from DLC because that is such a good story I doubt Bioware would waste it on DLC when they could make a lackluster expan for 40$ and sell it off the fact it contains closure on Morrigan. Though it would be neat to see more about Morrigan's past since she doesn't really tell you much, but you can assume she has taken a lot of abuse from Flemeth emotional and physical which makes me want to see Flemeth from her point of view.

Shayle or Shale however you prefer would be great. She is quite the companion and has quite the story to tell if she could only remember it. I would pay extra for a good DLC about her past. Why she became a Golem, and how she got deactivated before Willhelm(think that is his name) found her.

I think it would be good if they did a DLC for every LI. Would make you more attached them, and really help with their story and understanding of them.

Modifié par Jacks Smirking Revenge, 17 juin 2010 - 07:48 .

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

ahhh  

lol

[blademaster7]

Modifié par blademaster7, 17 juin 2010 - 08:32 .

[Master Shiori]

Since the DLC deals with her life prior to coming to Ferelden and joining the Warden I think we can safely say it's purpose is to shed more light on Leliana's past and not to write her off as a character.



If they wanted to finish her character off they'd make a DLC for Awakening where you meet with her and get some kind of "ending".



On the subject of DLC about Morrigan and Flemeth I see a few problems with that:



1) The cost of hiring Claudia Black and Kate Mulgrew to record what is just a few sentences. You could waste your entire DLC budget just on dialogue alone.



2) The mystery factor. Bioware made sure to keep bot characters wrapped up in secrecy throughout Origins. My guess is that if they wanted to tell more stories about them they'd do it in a full blown sequal and not a DLC.

[Terra_Ex]

Brockololly wrote...

I'm all for character driven DLC like the Leliana one but still a couple things worry me:

-Who wrote it? 
Sheryl Chee wrote Leliana in Origins and I'd hate it if we get to the DLC and Leliana is acting totally and completely different. No doubt she'll be different as its a prequel back when she was a bard before her "vision" but its still Leliana. I 'm just concerned we'll end up with some of the fantastic writing like the codex entries from Darkspawn Chronicles or horribly out of character moments like Alistair and Wynne flirting in Return to Ostagar. I'm quite sure Chee didn't write RtO and as such we ended up with Wynne turning into a cougar and Alistair actually playing along. For God's sake, Alistair is supposed to treat Wynne like the mother he never had! This isn't to bash the other writers at BioWare, but I'm pretty sure the main writers like Gaider and Chee haven't had much to do with the DLC. Maybe thats different with this one? Don't know...

These were my first thoughts upon hearing the news yesterday, whilst everyone was dancing in merriment, I'm thinking "who wrote it" and are we in for more out of character moments ala RTO or "in it for the lulz" aka DC. Based on the quality of post-release DLC offerings so far I won't be jumping onto the bandwagon until the content has been verified as a marked improvement, irrespective of what the title of the DLC claims to offer.

Brockololly wrote...
-Will the environments be new?
I'm wondering if this will take place in Orlais or not. And then even if it does, is it going to be a big, huge, iconic place like Val Royeaux or just some generic looking countryside/city? This isn't so much a complaint, but I just hope the look is at least not a copy/paste job like RtO or DC where they basically just kept the same levels found in Origins and slapped a slightly different color paint on it. So long as its not an area rehashed from Origins, thats fine by me.

I don't think they'll be able to devote enough art resources to producing new content if they're supposedly working on DA2/second expansion. I'm expecting some rejigged environments myself.

Brockololly wrote...
-Is this just a way to finish the Origins characters off?
Wild conspiracy theories ahoy! I think its clear that many people still really care for many of the Origins companions and want closure with them and their stories. Some people want another expansion pack, others would prefer a sequel. Is this DLC BioWare's way of throwing the fans a bone before moving on to something entirely different in DA2?

As we've discussed before (and this applies to all companions not just Morrigan) if they were to tie up loose ends in bitesize DLCs they'd be squandering everything they'd built up during DA:O.

Brockololly wrote...
And a slightly unrelated point, I've seen many people say how they specifically want another ex-pack to tie up the Warden and Morrigan story and all the other Origins loose ends. Then start DA2 fresh with all new everything. Really? I mean if BioWare could make an ex-pack in the mold of Throne of Bhaal rather than Awakening to finish everything up from Origins, that would be great.

But at the same time, I really want to see the Origins Warden and companions in the fancied up, "super hot" DA2 and all of the tweaks and changes that will bring. For all of out doubt and lack of hope, BG2 and ME2, BioWare's only true sequels, have both been pretty significant improvements (mostly) over their predecessors. WOuldn't you want to see the Origins stuff wrapped up in a full blown, full budget sequel instead of an ex-pack that only gets 1/10th the budget? Again, if the quality was there, I'd be ok with an expack to finish things off, but after Awakening, I really don't have much faith that BioWare could  tie up such loose ends adequately if expacks are just going to be like Awakening.

The cost of the requisite voiceovers alone immediately kills any notion that they could deliver something like TOB, it simply will not happen barring a significant cash injection from EA, and that's without getting into reduced dev team size and shorter dev times. BG2 & ME2 are two of Bioware's greatest and most highly regarded titles and imo it's fairly obvious that continuity played a significant role in both series success stories. I probably would have preferred if DA:O had not been fully voiced and had instead gone the BG2 route, it'd at least be viable then to get some quality written dialogue from a significant number of characters without blowing the budget, but that ship has sailed...

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 17 juin 2010 - 10:43 .

[Brockololly]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...


Shayle or Shale however you prefer would be great. She is quite the companion and has quite the story to tell if she could only remember it. I would pay extra for a good DLC about her past. Why she became a Golem, and how she got deactivated before Willhelm(think that is his name) found her.

A Shale DLC going into how she became a Golem and then fighting darkspawn with Caridin? That could be pretty cool.

Master Shiori wrote...
On the subject of DLC about Morrigan and Flemeth I see a few problems with that:

1) The cost of hiring Claudia Black and Kate Mulgrew to record what is just a few sentences. You could waste your entire DLC budget just on dialogue alone.

The only thing that might work in that regard I'd think would be if theypossibly had those 2 already working on DA2 VO and just had them read some extra lines for DLC.....

Terra_Ex wrote...
Based on the quality of post-release DLC offerings so far I won't be jumping onto the bandwagon until the content has been verified as a marked improvement, irrespective of what the title of the DLC claims to
offer.

Agreed- on paper I'm excited about it because it certainly seems to be more story/lore based, but there is still a lot they could mess up. Writing being the main thing if Chee didn't write for Leliana. On paper, DC doesn't seem that bad if you can get past the whole alternate universe thing, but then you get into it and its just not the same quality as Origins- not even close.

Terra_Ex wrote...
The cost of the requisite voiceovers alone immediately kills any notion that they could deliver something like TOB, it simply will not happen barring a significant cash injection from EA, and that's without gettinginto reduced dev team size and shorter dev times. BG2 & ME2 are twoof Bioware's greatest and most highly regarded titles and imo it's fairly obvious that continuity played a significant role in both series success stories. I probably would have preferred if DA:O had not been fully voiced and had instead gone the BG2 route, it'd at least be viablethen to get some quality written dialogue from a significant number of characters without blowing the budget, but that ship has sailed...

Agreed on the part of continuity helping ME2 and BG2 be so successful. I know its probably not a fair comparison but I'd guess KOTOR1 did better than KOTOR2- and probably at least part of that has to do with a lack of continuity. I eventually played KOTOR2- and I loved KOTOR1- but I never felt compelled to pick up KOTOR2 in part because it was basically totally removed from KOTOR1, with only tiny bits of continuity. If DA2 takes the KOTOR2 route in handling continuity, I'll not be very interested at all in it.

If you start fresh in DA2 without clearly having dealt with the open plot elements from Origins prior to DA2, then I'm not going to feel compelled to buy DA2. I don't think BioWare should discount or downplay how significant having continuity in characters and PC is when going between games. I don't think its an accident that BG and ME are both series rooted in continuity and both are viewed quite favorably by many gamers. Its certainly ok to start anew eventually, but you've got to finish what you've started first- and to me, the whole Morrigan plot only gets going once you do the DR. To just leave that to some other PC to unravel or to relegate that to "legend" in Thedas would pretty easily kill my emotional investment in the DA series.


You read a lot on the forums of people expecting the 2/1/2011 thing being an ex-pack, but I don't buy it. At least I doubt it would be an ex-pack in the traditional sense, possibly it would be a stand alone ex-pack? Don't know, but I'm pretty sure Gaider has mentioned in the past when posting about Awakening that the biggest factor afffecting sales of ex-packs is how quick you get it out after release. Basically the longer you wait, the worse sales will be. So would they release just another ex-pack over a year after Origins came out? My money is that the 2/1/2011 thing is still a full sequel.

Unless BioWare independently makes an announcment, it seems Gamescom August 18-22 would be the next big event or maybe look out for DA2 on the cover of Game Informer for July or August....

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juin 2010 - 02:34 .

[Shade of Wolf]

So will this new DLC give players an option to get Leliana if you missed her in Lothering? I think that might be likely.



Please let's not make this into a Leliana thread though lol, Morrigan will eat us.