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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#3451
Brockololly

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Swoo wrote...

Did they really crack on the visuals a lot for DA? I don't tend to really read any reviews unless a game comes out of nowhere and blindsides me. I thought the graphics and the like were perfectly fine in DA, but if the sequel is going to be a huge step forward, I can't wait to see that.


Its sad- in my boredom a while ago I put my make believe developer hat on and went through every review of DAO and Awakening I could find. From that I tried to sift through the most common complaints and criticisms and most common compliments. One reason I did this was that I remember for ME2, the devs made giant excel sheets of every review and broke everything down into positives. negatives and how to improve based in part on comments from reviews. If you look at the GDC talk Christina Norman gave about ME2, you can see some of the type of spreadsheets they made- kind of cool.

I didn't go that far, but some of the most common criticisms you come across for Origins is that the story seems derivative initially, the world seems fairly generic fantasy and that the visuals (especially for the consoles) are not up to par with other games of this generation. Lots of reviews mention bugginess, the goofiness of the blood stains, boring conversation animations, the gift system making approval too easy to manipulate, zombie PC facial expressions when in conversations and boring/generic locales.

My personal favorite review for Awakening is this one: http://www.cinemable...ning-23526.html It just hits on about every issue and problem I had with Awakening.

But yeah, it seems alot of the criticisms for Origins come from the console side of things. Mainly the muddy graphics and ho-hum control wheel setup. One of my concerns for DA2 is that the consoles get all the attention or that the PC version somehow gets "dumbed down" for the sake of the consoles. BioWare would never admit to that, but I just hate it when multiplatform games get crummy ports to the PC. But thats a rant for another time....

Swoo wrote...
Couple that with Morrigan being confirmed to reappearing and I think we are starting to see hints that DA2 will take a mix of O and A companions with new ones, and be slightly moved down the time-line but nothing drastic....exactly like Baldur's Gate II.


Thats an interesting point. I'd love to see Justice come back and maybe Nathaniel. Anders was ok but I could never get over the fact that he seemed too much like Alistair in a mage costume. A maybe 5-10 year gap in time from Awakening to DA2 would be awesome.

Swoo wrote...

And to just be a little more clear on this
point since it really sticks out to me when I was re-reading for any
glaring typo's, I'm talking about flagpole releases like Origins or
Dragon Age 2. Smaller, 'crunched' releases like DLC and Expansion
Packages you have to raise an eyebrow and go 'Err, I don't trust you
Bioware' until they prove otherwise. But when talking about the central
releases, I think no expense will be spared and quality will be held to
Bioware's usual standard because love EA, hate EA, or not give a damn,
they have made it abundantly clear they want a strong corner in the
RPG market, and they know a team like Bioware gives them a legit shot to
be Top 3 in the field.


Yeah, the big BioWare titles I still have faith in. But Awakening and much of the DLC has definitely made me weary though. Is that a sign of the direction they're headed, or just the nature of those projects? 

Plus you've got the fact that TOR is likely sucking talent away from DA and ME too, now that TOR is kind of BioWare's make or break title. I'm just really worried that eventually TOR turns BioWare into a Blizzard like situation, where once the MMO comes out, all their attention goes to that because thats what consistently raking in the money. Meanwhile, they'll neglect their single player stuff or the quality on the single player side will slip because all the energy is going to TOR. Unsubstantiated concerns as of yet, but concerns nevertheless.

#3452
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ximena wrote...

Hm. Okay. Now I can't get this off my head. Haha. I feel my hand itching once again to go grab some paper and pen though I'm dead tired. Would it be okay if I take this for a spin and turn it into one of my MorriganxM!cousland mini-comics in the future? o:


Sure, go ahead Posted Image

#3453
Giggles_Manically

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I have been talking about something with other fans and Morrigan came up:

If a Warden in a romance turns Morrigan down, would Morrigan feel sad, or would her anger override her remorse over losing the Warden forever.



I personally think that maybe she would one day feel bad about the whole thing, but overall I think she would be pretty po'ed for a long, long time.

#3454
Brockololly

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

I have been talking about something with other fans and Morrigan came up:
If a Warden in a romance turns Morrigan down, would Morrigan feel sad, or would her anger override her remorse over losing the Warden forever.

I personally think that maybe she would one day feel bad about the whole thing, but overall I think she would be pretty po'ed for a long, long time.


On one hand she'd be pissed as the Old God Baby thing is obviously super important to her. And at the same time though if you're romancing her, she views the DR as a means to have the PC survive- she doesn't want to see the PC dead.

I think thats part of the problem with the DR- Aimo's comic shows that Morrigan was looking at the DR as a means to genuinely help the Warden who is either friendly or romancing her, yet in the game its always my impression that Morrigan just comes across as too manipulative and cold.

So yeah, Morrigan would think the PC is a fool for turning down the DR and probably be angry as the OGB is seemingly very important to her. But she'd likely mourn the Warden too  in time.

#3455
KnightofPhoenix

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We still have no idea what's she's planing for the baby and how important it is to her. I wouldn't be sad to find out that the baby is more important to her than the father, if given sufficient reason.

And slightly off-topic, but to address Awakening. I personally liked it, but after playing Assassin's creed II and seeing the detailed and very fun management of the Villa (it's also a small town), I realised that the management of the Vigil was not as good as it could have been. At all. In Assassin, I felt like I really owned and managed the Villa. In Awakening, I felt like an errand boy. The Vigil seems like a missed opportunity now and it's sad.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juin 2010 - 04:34 .


#3456
Kryyptehk

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

We still have no idea what's she's planing for the baby and how important it is to her. I wouldn't be sad to find out that the baby is more important to her than the father, if given sufficient reason.

And slightly off-topic, but to address Awakening. I personally liked it, but after playing Assassin's creed II and seeing the detailed and very fun management of the Villa (it's also a small town), I realised that the management of the Vigil was not as good as it could have been. At all. In Assassin, I felt like I really owned and managed the Villa. In Awakening, I felt like an errand boy. The Vigil seems like a missed opportunity now and it's sad.


What?! You wouldn't care if Morrigan just used Arcturus for a baby if they gave a good reason?

...Who are are you and what have you done with KoP?:P

#3457
Giggles_Manically

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What would suck is that Morrigan lied about everything, including her feelings or actually caring and just led the warden on. Crap I just shed a manly tear i think.

#3458
KnightofPhoenix

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Not wouldn't care. Simply not be devastated or crushed. If it's convincing.

And it's not used. Morrigan can care for the PC and even be in love. However, the baby can still be more important to her than the father or would be father.

#3459
KnightofPhoenix

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

What would suck is that Morrigan lied about everything, including her feelings or actually caring and just led the warden on. Crap I just shed a manly tear i think.


The very fact she avoids showing her feelings and admit love until the end is proof, to me, that she isn't lying. She could have said the three words since the very beginning and used that to manipulate you, but she didn't.

Unless she knew that we would think like this exactly, which makes her a brilliant judge of character and manipulator. Wich makes me even more intrigued.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juin 2010 - 04:47 .


#3460
ximena

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Brockololly wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I have been talking about something with other fans and Morrigan came up:
If a Warden in a romance turns Morrigan down, would Morrigan feel sad, or would her anger override her remorse over losing the Warden forever.

I personally think that maybe she would one day feel bad about the whole thing, but overall I think she would be pretty po'ed for a long, long time.


On one hand she'd be pissed as the Old God Baby thing is obviously super important to her. And at the same time though if you're romancing her, she views the DR as a means to have the PC survive- she doesn't want to see the PC dead.

I think thats part of the problem with the DR- Aimo's comic shows that Morrigan was looking at the DR as a means to genuinely help the Warden who is either friendly or romancing her, yet in the game its always my impression that Morrigan just comes across as too manipulative and cold.

So yeah, Morrigan would think the PC is a fool for turning down the DR and probably be angry as the OGB is seemingly very important to her. But she'd likely mourn the Warden too  in time.


I love "Revelations" for bringing Morrigan's conflict into the picture. I really wish that cutscene wasn't left on the cutting room floor since it would have added much more depth to the DR and Morrigan's conflict. I think she'd be angry as well for being turned down since she would consider this foolish. I see her mourning The Warden for a time, but I think she'll move on. Especially in the scenario she was with a non-DR child after the Blight. I guess she'd focus all her energy on bringing up that kid rather than weeping for something that has passed. 
I suddenly remember how nonchalantly Morrigan says "Then I would mourn you" when the PC, who has undergone the DR, asks her what would happen if he dies. Morri's great wall of defense is probably at its highest at the Battle of Denerim and she only cracks at the moment she says the "my love" line, and this could explain the way she answered that. Or she's just confident that the DR worked.

#3461
ximena

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What would suck is that Morrigan lied about everything, including her feelings or actually caring and just led the warden on. Crap I just shed a manly tear i think.


The very fact she avoids showing her feelings and admit love until the end is proof, to me, that she isn't lying. She could have said the three words since the very beginning and used that to manipulate you, but she didn't.

Unless she knew that we would think like this exactly, which makes her a brilliant judge of character and manipulator. Wich makes me even more intrigued.


I have great faith that she wasn't lying. If she was, she wouldn't be that conflicted.

#3462
revan11exile

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Say guys as i enter the final battle of Denerim Morrigan called me "my love" but the thing is i romanced Leilana.She also called me "my love" as i chose to do the DR is this a bug

#3463
blademaster7

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revan11exile wrote...

Say guys as i enter the final battle of Denerim Morrigan called me "my love" but the thing is i romanced Leilana.She also called me "my love" as i chose to do the DR is this a bug

Did you by any chance romanced her and then broke up with her?


@swoo, Here's the best dagger in the game.

http://dragonage.wik...he_Rose's_Thorn

#3464
Ash Wind

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Giggles_Manically wrote...

What would suck is that Morrigan lied about everything, including her feelings or actually caring and just led the warden on. Crap I just shed a manly tear i think.

I don't think, from her perspective she would have needed any reason to lie. Essentially, the romance and the Dark Ritual are two independent things.

Her selling point in the DR is that No Grey Warden has to die so there is really nothing gained from pretending to have feelings for the Warden.

I think her falling in love complicates the issue. If she were lying, instead of honestly purposing the Dark Ritual, she could have played the 'I love you card' and said, let me perform this "Protection Ritual" on the eve of battle and it well help you absorb the AD soul without dying, then we can be together. The Warden wouldn't have been any wiser until after the battle when she disappears.

#3465
Guest_dream_operator23_*

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I think that Morrigan would be sad if a Warden she loved sacrificed himself, but wouldn't want to admit it. And she would move on and probably quickly. Morrigan has always struck me as someone who is feeling the emotions of love for the first time, but cannot act on them. She is still very much a self-centered person even when in love with the Warden. She would definitely think him foolish for throwing his life away when she gave him a chance to live. She wouldn't understand that if she can't trust him then she may very well lose his trust in her. It takes a VERY special person that would take Morrigan's distrust of him (Morrigan refusing to tell him anything at all about what she will do with his child) and still trust her enough to do the DR with her.

Modifié par dream_operator23, 20 juin 2010 - 08:48 .


#3466
Master Shiori

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I actually asked David Gaider about the DR and Morrigan's feelings for the Warden.



He said that her plan was to have a child with any Grey Warden that was suitable, not specifically the player or Alistair.

Falling in love with the player wasn't her plan either, since she would have preferred to do the DR without fuss or complications.

He said that she does actually love the player, despite believing love is a weakness, as evident by giving him her ring.



So yes, her feelings and words at the gates of Denerim are genuine.

#3467
Master Shiori

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Here's the thing I'm wondering about:



If the Warden had a relationship with Morrigan but refused the DR, Morrigan will end up pregnant with a normal child.



How wold she treat that kid? Would she even want o be a mother?

#3468
Swoo

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blademaster7 wrote...

@swoo, Here's the best dagger in the game.

http://dragonage.wik...he_Rose's_Thorn


Rose's Thorn:
6.4 Damage, 4.8 Crit, 8 Armor Pen, 3 Runes, +2 DEX, +1 Health Regen, +3 Damage, +5% Crit, +30% Crit/BS

Fang:
7.2 Damage, 5.4 Crit, 10 Armor Pen, 3 Runes, +3 CUN, +6 Attack, +1% Extra Nature Damage, +5% Crit, +15% Crit/BS


I dunno man, those City Elves get one hell of a dagger. Bastards.

#3469
Swoo

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Master Shiori wrote...

I actually asked David Gaider about the DR and Morrigan's feelings for the Warden.

He said that her plan was to have a child with any Grey Warden that was suitable, not specifically the player or Alistair. Falling in love with the player wasn't her plan either, since she would have preferred to do the DR without fuss or complications. He said that she does actually love the player, despite believing love is a weakness, as evident by giving him her ring.

So yes, her feelings and words at the gates of Denerim are genuine.


That's smart thinking right there, go straight to the source.

#3470
blademaster7

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Umm... you compared a lv 7 dagger from origins to the stats of a lv 9 dagger(you need Awakening to get it that high)?

And 30% backstab damage is pretty huge.


Shiori: So... Gaider told you what we already know.... :whistle:

Modifié par blademaster7, 20 juin 2010 - 09:06 .


#3471
Master Shiori

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That dagger you get from Cyrion is wicked.



The irony is both my city elf characters are duel wielding warriors...

#3472
Master Shiori

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blademaster7 wrote...


Umm... you compared a lv 7 dagger from origins to the stats of a lv 9 dagger(you need Awakening to get it that high)?

And 30% backstab damage is pretty huge.

Shiori: So... Gaider told you what we already know.... :whistle:


He just cleared up the whole "does Morrigan actually love the Warden?" issue people seem to bring up every now and then.

As for the dagger, Swoo was comparing Rose's Thorn to the dagger the city elf receives from his/her father after completing the slavers quest.

#3473
blademaster7

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Master Shiori wrote...

As for the dagger, Swoo was comparing Rose's Thorn to the dagger the city elf receives from his/her father after completing the slavers quest.

Yes, I know. But he posted the lv 9 stats of the dagger. I'm noit even sure if it's upgrade-able to lv 9 if you import it to Awakening.

#3474
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I definitely think Morrigan loves the Warden, there is no doubt in my mind. Yet there is more to love than just feeling it. You have to act on it. I really don't think Morrigan ever acts on her love for the Warden. I don't think she ever puts the Warden's feelings above her own. The fact that she leaves a Warden she loves if he won't do the DR seals this for me though there are many other hints of it. Morrigan not trusting the Warden enough to at least tell him what she plans to do with their child being one of them. And don't get me wrong, I love Morrigan and any more she is the only companion I romance because I love her and her story so much. It's just that she has so much to learn about loving someone.

#3475
Swoo

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blademaster7 wrote...

Umm... you compared a lv 7 dagger from origins to the stats of a lv 9 dagger(you need Awakening to get it that high)?

And 30% backstab damage is pretty huge.


Shiori: So... Gaider told you what we already know.... :whistle:


I don't pay attention to this rogue ****. So, yay, I don't need to make a City Elf now!