16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Giggles_Manically]

Well Zevran can betray you even if you are romancing him if you pick the wrong line or dont get his approval high enough by that time. Leliana will try to kill you to save the ashes or leave you if you do. So their romances are not all hapiness and sunshine either Shiori. But you are right theirs are a lot less complicated and drama ridden at the end.

[Brockololly]

Well thats the thing- both Alistair and Morrigan are much more integrated into the overall plot than Leliana and Zevran. Leliana and Zevran can be killed off or ignored and not affect the overall plot, while Alistair being heir to the throne will always play a role at the Landsmeet and Morrigan always shows up to offer the DR.

I really wish more of the companions had more central roles in the plot. It makes things much more interesting albeit most likely trickier for the writers and devs.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 juin 2010 - 03:11 .

[blademaster7]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well Zevran can betray you even if you are romancing him if you pick the wrong line or dont get his approval high enough by that time. Leliana will try to kill you to save the ashes or leave you if you do. So their romances are not all hapiness and sunshine either Shiori. But you are right theirs are a lot less complicated and drama ridden at the end.

Well, every other romance in the game can be infuenced by your decisions, though. If you are romancing Alistair then it's not really wise to recruit Loghain, is it? And you aren't defiling the ashes if you want to keep Leliana around.

Your DECISIONS have an IMPACT on their romance. And if you screw up... then no problemo. You have the magic F9 key at your disposal. Or you can get it right on your next playthrough.

The thing with Morrigan is that you will end up getting smacked by the Gaider-hammer of doom no matter what you choose. It kind of sucks that such a great character was reduced into a one-size-fits-all plot device and romancing Wardens got no closure on their storyline.

[Giggles_Manically]

You can shut Morrigan down pretty hard in the DR. But it sucks that you have to practically beg her to stay, to get her to say something sad. Mostly my PCs call her names or just let her go.

[ejoslin]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Well Zevran can betray you even if you are romancing him if you pick the wrong line or dont get his approval high enough by that time. Leliana will try to kill you to save the ashes or leave you if you do. So their romances are not all hapiness and sunshine either Shiori. But you are right theirs are a lot less complicated and drama ridden at the end.

Zevran won't betray his lover.  I mean, technically, that could happen, but generally the worst that will happen with Zevran is he won't fight Taliesen or the Warden.  It's very difficult to have Zevran romanced and not at at least interested.  Basically, if you can have sex with Zevran, he won't betray you.  He may not help his current lover kill his former lover if he's not at adore, but even then, he may.

Unless, I suppose, you consider him refusing to fight and leaving after warning the warden there's an ambush about to happen a betrayal.  I don't.  At that point, it's pretty understandable what's going on with him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 juin 2010 - 03:25 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Must have been a bug since, I only got this second hand through my friend who said that it happened to her when she picked "I guess that means killing me right?"

[ejoslin]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Must have been a bug since, I only got this second hand through my friend who said that it happened to her when she picked "I guess that means killing me right?"

You can ask him that, but as long as he's 26+, he won't try to kill the warden.  He WILL leave with that response if you're under 71 (adore) while in a romance with him, but he won't side with Taliesen. 

That particular conversation isn't bugged.  Games do get glitched however.

If you ask him about it later, he explains if you question him about it that Taliesen had been his lover (if you ask directly) and he didn't want to kill him, but instead left him to his fate (if you tell him he should have stayed and fought).

Edit: If he's above 26 and not romanced, he always stays.  If he's 26-70 and in a romance, he may leave, but there is a response there that will have him stay as well.  But his leaving is definitely a romance thing.

Second edit: I agree that people who romance Morrigan get a painful ending no matter what.  The best endings come from Zevran and Leliana and Gray Warden Alistair.  The only reason HNF are so popular is because that's the only one that can marry Alistair -- being his mistress or being dumped is pretty painful.  

Alistair CAN have happy endings though.  There are a lot of people who are bothered by having to have him do the DR with Morrigan in order for him and the to stay together, but I think that's a very fair tradeoff.  Morrigan, it's always going to be heartbreaking.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 juin 2010 - 03:39 .

[Master Shiori]

The point I'm trying to make is that with Leliana you know she's pro Chantry, so defiling the Ashes is obviously a no go.



With Zevran you don't even need to romance him to avoid the betrayal. As long as you're at least friendly to him and keep an open mind about him being an assassin he won't join Taliesen.

He will leave you, but won't help Crows.

However, like I said, if you really want to be his friend or lover you're basically guaranteed to have the needed approval to avoid his betrayal.

On all my characters he never tried to betray me and I only romanced him once.



With Alistair you have to convince him to sleep with Morrigan, regardless of whether you're his future queen, mistress or lover. Otherwise one of you will die in the final battle.



With Morrigan you lose her regardless if you take the ritual or not. Taking the ritual will make sure she loves you until the end, but that's it. No "happy" ending here.



All of these romances are really well done. It's just irks me some have pitfalls that are really easy to avoid while other require you to make sacrifices that may or may not give you a happy ending.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Yeah the Morrigan cliffhanger is a bummer, but even then I like her leaving it makes her story more rich and makes you really miss/want her even more. Like people have said all the other LI you can have if you play the cards right you can't have Morrigan no matter how hard you try. It is one of the few moments in the game were you can't control the plot, and to me those are the best parts of the story. I'm becoming quite the fan of hers it has taken me a while, but she is becoming my favorite character. Though I do not see happily ever after in the cards for Morrigan, but I won't stop romancing her because even if it ends in tragedy her story is the richest, and the small hope that it does turn out puppies and sunshine then it will certainly be the most rewarding.

[Master Shiori]

I agree her romances very rich and can be rewarding even without a happy ending.



The only problem so far is that we have no idea if our Warden will ever see her again and get some sort of closure.

[Giggles_Manically]

KNowing Gaider you see Morrigan again but have to kill her from stopping her from taking over the world.

[Master Shiori]

At this point just seeing her again would be a cause for celebration.

Reuniting her and the Warden would probably require sacrificing Ser Pounce-a-lot and punting dozens of kittens, before Bioware even considers granting us that wish...

[Giggles_Manically]

With one of the Morrigan dialouges that gets fixed you gain an approval point outside of Lothering:

-Do you really want to fight a mage?

BANDITS: Uh maybe well just let you past then!

-Right time to test some spells!

BANDTI: I DONT WANT TO BE A TOOOAAAAADDDD!! <runs away>

MORRIGAN: +1 approval.

[Lord Gremlin]

Master Shiori wrote...

At this point just seeing her again would be a cause for celebration.
Reuniting her and the Warden would probably require sacrificing Ser Pounce-a-lot and punting dozens of kittens, before Bioware even considers granting us that wish...

Now that's too cruel! Not Ser Pounce-a-lot! Maybe we can sacrifice a dozen of orphans and burn a small city instead?

[Master Shiori]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

At this point just seeing her again would be a cause for celebration.
Reuniting her and the Warden would probably require sacrificing Ser Pounce-a-lot and punting dozens of kittens, before Bioware even considers granting us that wish...

Now that's too cruel! Not Ser Pounce-a-lot! Maybe we can sacrifice a dozen of orphans and burn a small city instead?

Works for me.

Let's hope Bioware agrees. I'd hate to have to kill poor Ser Pounce-a-lot. 

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Let's hope Bioware agrees. I'd hate to have to kill poor Ser Pounce-a-lot. 

I hope Anders comes back for DA2, if only so that Ser Pounce-a-Lot can  banter with my Warden's Mabari. :happy:

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 juin 2010 - 07:35 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Let's hope Bioware agrees. I'd hate to have to kill poor Ser Pounce-a-lot. 

I hope Anders comes back for DA2, if only so that Ser Pounce-a-Lot can  banter with my Warden's Mabari. :happy:

You're right!

I can't believe I never thought of banter between the Mabari and Ser Pounce-a-lot.

That would be epic.

Imagine Sten trying to train Ser Pounce-a-lot. 

[Giggles_Manically]

Say that the DR had been cut out, and that a Warden didnt have to die to slay the AD. What do you think Morrigan would have done with the Warden. This is assuming that there was no plan on getting the OGB and that Morrigan was only after flemeth to avoid getting possessed.

[Master Shiori]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Say that the DR had been cut out, and that a Warden didnt have to die to slay the AD. What do you think Morrigan would have done with the Warden. This is assuming that there was no plan on getting the OGB and that Morrigan was only after flemeth to avoid getting possessed.

Hmm, that's both an interesting question and a tough one to answer.

If the Warden was her friend, I'd say Morrigan would say her goodbye and leave to explore the world and increase her knowledge and power, but would possibly return one day.

If she was in love with the Warden I guess the 2 of them would be traveling together, at least until the Warden had to leave for his calling.
Not sure if Morrigan would be willing to settle down somewhere. On one hand she wasn't thrilled with that idea in the game itself, but I always got the impression that was more due to the fact she's an apostate and as such would never be welcome in society.
I could, however, imagine her settling somewhere in the wilderness, just like Flemeth had.
Would they start a family? Maybe not intentionally, but Morrigan seems to get pregnant if you slept with her at least once, so I imagine she might discover she's with a child even if she didn't plan on having one. If it came to that my Warden would remain at her side as her partner and help her raise the kid. 

[Swoo]

Well, the one positive we have is that we are the only romance that is guaranteed to see their S.O. in upcoming games. Of course we get a negative and it might not be 'us' but the 'new us'.


Also I forgot how much fun hexes are on one mage, and primal is on another when both running toghther.

Oh God yes. I build Morrigan as heavy into Entropy, the Cold Line, with some Creation and Spirit thrown in. My canon Mage is a Primalist with some magic tricks on the side. It's pure freaking havoc. I've had fights before with Morrigan debuffing the enemies like crazy, popping into beareskin (I forget the exact spelling of the Master Bear form), and my Mage hanging back nuking everything, while keeping her up.

Come to think of it, a duo game of MorriganxRhys would be insanely fun.

You win and suffer no loss.

Not exactly sure if I agree with that, even though I see your point and am on the fence. Alistair in just about every playthrough has been my 'best friend' and the times I've used Loghain, I've had massive respect for the man once he can just be a man and not a ruler/tyrant. Putting them on a funeral pyre so I can live seems like a heavy price to pay mentally, if you played it a certain way. Surely there are some selfish characters, or those who spared Loghain for the sole purpose to toss him onto the Archdemons corpse a.s.a.p. who do get the 'good' ending without any real personal loss.

So I guess I go non-commital and sort of agree, sort of disagree.

then having the warden kill his kid.

I'm absolutely certain it's a gotcha moment in the making. Morrigan says you live as long as the child does, I'm betting that if the kid bites it you immediately get hit with the AD's corruption and are fried. I'll be perfectly cool with that as long as I'm not forced into the corner and have to oppose Morrigan and the Kid, perhaps I'll agree with them and want to side with them. Options, some semblence of control, we need some.

Is it just me or do most of the romances Gaider writes end in tragedy or death?

I'm not sure, we need to find out which he actually wrote, but he seems to be about 50/50 on it.

Viconia was the definition of the 'happy ending without being good'. You had your idyllic moment in the sun before the real world fell on top of you, as you always knew you ran the risk of.

Bastila is hard to judge vs others because Lucas enforces a very fairy-tale hue to his stories, or he refuses to let them out. But I found it perfect and spit on Obsidian for f'ng up yet another game and storyline I love. (Seriously, Obsidian just ruins everything they touch. They'd f--k up Pong, releasing the game with only one paddle and claiming the other paddle had to be cut thanks to time restraints and budget).

Aribeth I thought (and correct me if I am wrong, it's been awhile) actually had the same sort of Basila-Redeemer ending and it was ret-conned by a completely different writing team that killed her after the fact. But as far as the OG writers were concerned, you paid your dues and got the girl in the end.

Maric was just cursed. It's one of the only things Wynne ever said that I didn't want to put a fireball in her face, the whole line about how power and responsibility can confine you. Then Loghain perfectly shines a light on just how wrong you can go by putting duty over all other concerns (sometimes). I think Maric was created with the sole intention to show sacrifice at every level of a character to make a better future, I would be surprised if he ever was supposed to be 'happy'.

Are you sure about that? Hahahaha. I have a feeling you won't be saying that once we get to Chapter 3.

She found the Bioware PR manual and is hitting it pitch-perfectly it seems.

[Master Shiori]

Swoo wrote...

Well, the one positive we have is that we are the only romance that is guaranteed to see their S.O. in upcoming games. Of course we get a negative and it might not be 'us' but the 'new us'.


You win and suffer no loss.

Not exactly sure if I agree with that, even though I see your point and am on the fence. Alistair in just about every playthrough has been my 'best friend' and the times I've used Loghain, I've had massive respect for the man once he can just be a man and not a ruler/tyrant. Putting them on a funeral pyre so I can live seems like a heavy price to pay mentally, if you played it a certain way. Surely there are some selfish characters, or those who spared Loghain for the sole purpose to toss him onto the Archdemons corpse a.s.a.p. who do get the 'good' ending without any real personal loss.

So I guess I go non-commital and sort of agree, sort of disagree.

Well true, anyone who feels attached to Alistair or Loghain would find it a bit hard. But if your priority is to have a "happy" ending with your love interest, then the offing Alistair/Loghain isn't really a problem.

Swoo wrote...

then having the warden kill his kid.

I'm absolutely certain it's a gotcha moment in the making. Morrigan says you live as long as the child does, I'm betting that if the kid bites it you immediately get hit with the AD's corruption and are fried. I'll be perfectly cool with that as long as I'm not forced into the corner and have to oppose Morrigan and the Kid, perhaps I'll agree with them and want to side with them. Options, some semblence of control, we need some.

The "you live as long as the child does" was referring to the situation prior to killing the Archdemon. THat's Morrigan basically warning you against trying to harm her or stop her from leaving. If you do she could kill a child and you'd be dead once the Archdemon is slain.

At least that's how I understood it. 

Swoo wrote...
Is it just me or do most of the romances Gaider writes end in tragedy or death?

I'm not sure, we need to find out which he actually wrote, but he seems to be about 50/50 on it.

Viconia was the definition of the 'happy ending without being good'. You had your idyllic moment in the sun before the real world fell on top of you, as you always knew you ran the risk of.

Bastila is hard to judge vs others because Lucas enforces a very fairy-tale hue to his stories, or he refuses to let them out. But I found it perfect and spit on Obsidian for f'ng up yet another game and storyline I love. (Seriously, Obsidian just ruins everything they touch. They'd f--k up Pong, releasing the game with only one paddle and claiming the other paddle had to be cut thanks to time restraints and budget).

Aribeth I thought (and correct me if I am wrong, it's been awhile) actually had the same sort of Basila-Redeemer ending and it was ret-conned by a completely different writing team that killed her after the fact. But as far as the OG writers were concerned, you paid your dues and got the girl in the end.

Maric was just cursed. It's one of the only things Wynne ever said that I didn't want to put a fireball in her face, the whole line about how power and responsibility can confine you. Then Loghain perfectly shines a light on just how wrong you can go by putting duty over all other concerns (sometimes). I think Maric was created with the sole intention to show sacrifice at every level of a character to make a better future, I would be surprised if he ever was supposed to be 'happy'.

Agree on Viconia and Bastila.

Aribeth was never mentioned in the epilogue of original NWN campaign. Her fate was only revealed in HOtU, where it is said that Lord Nasher had her executed to appease the blood hungry crowd, despite promising the player he'd be merciful.
So you could argue they killed her only to have her return and romance a completely new pc in the expansion. while her lover disappeared into parts unknown.
Makes you wonder if similar fate isn't planned for Morrigan.

Swoo wrote...
Are you sure about that? Hahahaha. I have a feeling you won't be saying that once we get to Chapter 3.

She found the Bioware PR manual and is hitting it pitch-perfectly it seems.

Honestly, there are times when Ximena thinks so much like David Gaider that she freaks me out... 

Then I remember that she is a Morrigan fan and believe things will work out (or at least be better then they were at the end of Origins).

[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

So, I was thinking (dangerous as that may be)- Is it just me or do most of the romances Gaider writes end in tragedy or death? I'm not advocating puppies and sunshine, but is it just me or are all of these romances kind of downers?

Honestly Brock, I didn't think that was such a brain teaser.  I thought it was actually self-evident. 

Based upon what you all have shared with me from past titles, and what I've read and experienced from Gaider, I don't think the fans of this particular thread are in very good hands with regards to their Dragon Age futures.

BTW, everyone feels the need to pre-empt their comments about the future with the "puppies and sunshine" disclaimer (I know I do).  That's just a trained Pavlovian response (oops, the romance ending button is about to be pressed) it seems from being constantly harped at by the  dark nerd crowd that such a thing is somehow out of bounds.  BS.  You can hope for what ever you want out of any possible ending you wish for in a video game that you are paying for.  Don't be kow-towed if you wish (even, if remotely so) for such a thing. 

Sorry, but being a consumer, buying a product that a company wants you to buy, and having expectations of said product and its successors from that company, is your right and damn sure not MYOPIC.

Who the hell said that the lovers of tragedy have an F-in monopoly on how things should be?  They are merely a competing faction of a consumer base.  I don't care if this is "Dark Fantasy" or not, we are paying consumers and can request (or demand if you prefer) from a "manufacturer" whatever we want out of a product we are considering purchasing from them.

I guess bleak, dark and tragic just isn't my thing.  Honestly, I think I'm really just averse to being kicked in the crotch at the end of a video game in which I'm supposed to be playing the central figure. 

Picked a helluva game to cut my RPG teeth on, huh?

Anyway, rant complete....well, for now at least.

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 22 juin 2010 - 10:18 .

[Swoo]

I guess bleak, dark and tragic just ain't my thing.  Honestly, I think
I'm just averse to being kicked in the crotch at the end of a video game
I'm the supposed hero of.  Picked a helluva game to cut my RPG teeth
on, huh?

Go give Planescape Torment a try sometime, it's probably the best RPG ever made, you can literally talk your way through the entire game if you want or be an axe-weilding maniac, and if you think you've seen bleak you haven't seen God's die and Angel's go nuts. It won't be topped.

[Giggles_Manically]

Is it still for sale, or Steam only right now?

[Swoo]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Is it still for sale, or Steam only right now?

Which, PS:T? It's a 10 year old game by Bioware that is STILL better than anything else you will play. I'm sure you can pick it up somewhere on the cheap.