16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

GardenSnake wrote...
Brock, you watch 24?  Awesome!!!! What did you think of the series finale? Kind of anti-climactic if you ask me, but at least it's gonna lead into the movie which is hopefully gonna give Jack the ending he deserves.

Haha- Well I watched 24- I was hooked on the first 5 seasons more or less as I'd wait and watch them in a big marathon after the season was over. Good mindless Die Hard type action fun. But season 6 was kind of "meh" and I really lost interest after the Writer's strike, so I actually haven't seen any of the last season yet. I'll probably get around to it eventually. I still think they screwed over the show at the beginning of season 5 by needlessly killing off so many characters... ah well.

GardenSnake wrote...
But about DA, did you guys hear about Leliana's Song? It's got the ME convo system  It technically makes sense seeing as the fact that it would be a total waste of Kempa's time to just record voice over for a scene here and there, but I really hope that's not the direction they're going in for DA2.

I think the ME style convo system should be fine for Leliana's DLC. It basically was in Origins already if you take Morrigan into the Fade to rescue Connor. But going forward I hope they don't use it in DA. It works for ME since you're not actually Shep, but in DA its a 1st person PC, so you're supposed to be the PC and saying exactly the written responses. And doing all the extra VO is no doubt expensive and takes away from more dialogue choices.

GardenSnake wrote...
After playing Awakening through a second time and actually getting all of the characters to like me, I still found it very difficult to connect with them and I think it's because of the lack of intimacy between you and your companions that the Origins' system provides.

Agreed- that and the bugs I had which often makes approval an impossible feat. The Origins system could definitely be improved, but I feel like with Awakening they just threw the baby out with the bathwater. I understand that the writers dislike the laundry list of questions that always pop up, but I loathe how in Awakening you can only click on objects to start conversations or the companions act all indignant when you click on them to try and chat.  The Awakening system made it all feel more like a mini game whereas I felt Origins' system was much more natural and immersive. You basically just had to pace yourself with the dialogue.

GardenSnake wrote...
And I want DA2 news too... this is starting to get ridiculous......

Yeah.... E3 was disappointing. My hope now lies with Gamescom in August I think. Perhaps DA2 will be on the cover of the August Game Informer or maybe we'll get another teaser with the Leliana DLC? I'm grasping at straws at  this point as far as what BioWare's marketing plan regarding the 2/1/2011 date all means.

[Addai]

It's been a while since I did Morrigan's personal quest and I'm finding a little bug.  I have the Morrigan Restoration Patch.  I agreed to deceive her, and when I went back to camp, it went straight to a dialogue with Morrigan, but it was not Morri asking about the grimoire.  It was her usual "I await your command."  Meanwhile I have no grimoire in invenotry to give her, so the quest won't update.  Anyone else find this??

[Swoo]

Addai67 wrote...

It's been a while since I did Morrigan's personal quest and I'm finding a little bug.  I have the Morrigan Restoration Patch.  I agreed to deceive her, and when I went back to camp, it went straight to a dialogue with Morrigan, but it was not Morri asking about the grimoire.  It was her usual "I await your command."  Meanwhile I have no grimoire in invenotry to give her, so the quest won't update.  Anyone else find this??

Was there another book you were supposed to loot ontop of the one you recieve from Flemeth? I seem to remember reading something about there being a non-quest grimoire and a quest-grimoire you needed, but can't say with absolute certainty.

[Swoo]

GardenSnake wrote...
After playing Awakening through a second time
and actually getting all of the characters to like me, I still found it
very difficult to connect with them and I think it's because of the lack
of intimacy between you and your companions that the Origins' system
provides.

I think the only ones I came close to really having any sort of connection with was Nathaniel, with Justice kind of on the edge there. I think a lot of it had to do with writing and game-length. Nathaniel and Justice, in my mind, seemed to have their conversations centered on things that really pushed the characters forward, while many others seemed to use them as a chance to flesh out the backstory. The second knock was games length; It took me in the single-digit's to beat Awakening, and I think at most I had like five conversations with each person? If it was Origins length and I was able to get in twenty to twenty-five of the talks using this Points of Interest thingies, it might have worked fine.

I'm personally hedging for a mixture of Origins and Awakening; Gimme 'Camp' talk, and also give me universal points of interest that start up conversations with whomever is in my party so I don't have to do this Easter Egg hunt crap to learn about the guy or gal at my side.

In other news, I gave up on Witcher and reinstalled BG2 thanks to that damn forum thread getting me nostalgic. Sorcerer PC of course, gotta stick with the robes and finger-waggling of doom. Question is, do I take the safe option of Jaheria, or do I Gaiderize myself a bit more by taking the more interesting Viconia? Or do I get bored a few hours in because I've played the game 2.2 million times and it doesn't matter?! Sigh...choices!

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

A quick one for that epilogue slide wherein Morrigan insinuates herself within the Orlesian Court. I doubt she'll wear her old clothes. XD Still a W.I.P.!

She looks so wonderful.

I always wondred how Morrigan would look in more elegant clothing. Glad to see you've kept some of the elements from her original design like the jewelry.

Looking forward to seeing the finished version.

@Brock and Swoo
My dream DLC would be where Leliana takes Morrigan shopping for clothes.
I also hope the romance pack DLC that Ray and Greg mentioned for ME2 and DA:O wasn't just a joke. That would be really great. <3

[Terra_Ex]

Addai67 wrote...

It's been a while since I did Morrigan's personal quest and I'm finding a little bug.  I have the Morrigan Restoration Patch.  I agreed to deceive her, and when I went back to camp, it went straight to a dialogue with Morrigan, but it was not Morri asking about the grimoire.  It was her usual "I await your command."  Meanwhile I have no grimoire in invenotry to give her, so the quest won't update.  Anyone else find this??

Still works for me as of the latest update...

-Did you get the grimoire out of the chest? Its a plot item that replaces the normal gift version to prevent it being dropped.
-Do you have the latest version?
-Any other conflicting mods that alter morrigan_main.dlg.

Point 3 is generally the one that causes problems... unless I have a greater than usual influx of people saying it doesn't work, but I haven't changed the condition for that branch since... well it's been a long time.

Swoo wrote...
I'm personally hedging for a mixture of Origins
and Awakening; Gimme 'Camp' talk, and also give me universal points of
interest that start up conversations with whomever is in my party so I
don't have to do this Easter Egg hunt crap to learn about the guy or gal
at my side.

Well, there's something to be said for the conversations in camp. Personally I thought it was the ideal time to further develop the characters and greatly enjoyed the ability to sit back for an hour or so, taking a break from battling assorted fiends. Plus the camp has superb music. You can't become attached to companions who are primarilly developed through snippits of dialogue triggered more or less at random. Now if the systems were merged properly it could work very well. Though BW should restrict being able to completely exhaust a companions dialogue from the off, ie: base available conversations partially on the player's overall game progression rather than solely affection.

The situation is similar to Zaeed & Kasumi from ME2 in that the lack of a proper dialogue wheel immediately makes it obvious that they are "just" DLC characters and you won't get much development outside their loyalty mission and the trinkets scattered about their quarters. Though it's odd as the both had extra lines to interject throughout the game so why they didn't give them a proper dialogue wheel I don't know.

Swoo wrote...
In other news, I gave up on Witcher and
reinstalled BG2 thanks to that damn forum thread getting me nostalgic.
Sorcerer PC of course, gotta stick with the robes and finger-waggling of
doom. Question is, do I take the safe option of Jaheria, or do I
Gaiderize myself a bit more by taking the more interesting Viconia? Or
do I get bored a few hours in because I've played the game 2.2 million
times and it doesn't matter?! Sigh...choices!

Sorceror
just obliterates everything in BG2 And yes, you'll likely get bored
before completion :happy: Do Jaheira's arc if you've not done it before, but be sure you've got the fan-made patch installed if you want to actually finish it.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 28 juin 2010 - 10:45 .

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

I'm personally hedging for a mixture of Origins and Awakening; Gimme 'Camp' talk, and also give me universal points of interest that start up conversations with whomever is in my party so I don't have to do this Easter Egg hunt crap to learn about the guy or gal at my side.

I think part of the problem with Awakening and the conversation system was that there were too many new companions to get to know on top of the somewhat gimped conversation mechanic. If you had more returning characters with an already known  backstory, the new system might work better. Or just fewer characters given the size of the expansion. I just think that at least right after you recruit someone, you should be able to ask them at least some general background type questions. It just seems odd to go, "Oh hey, I know nothing about you- want to be a Grey Warden?" 

I don't have a problem necessarily with the notion of more conversations being based on stuff in the world, but the actual mechanics of it need to be brushed up- I really hate clicking on an inanimate object to start a conversation when you don't know who will start talking or what about. And I hate clicking on an object when the actual person is right there- it just takes away any agency from the player and I felt like Origins did a really good job of letting the player feel empowered rather than just sitting back while everyone else starts talking at the player and such.

Swoo wrote...
In other news, I gave up on Witcher and reinstalled BG2 thanks to that damn forum thread getting me nostalgic. Sorcerer PC of course, gotta stick with the robes and finger-waggling of doom. Question is, do I take the safe option of Jaheria, or do I Gaiderize myself a bit more by taking the more interesting Viconia? Or do I get bored a few hours in because I've played the game 2.2 million times and it doesn't matter?! Sigh...choices!

Haha- yeah I tried getting back into BG2 a couple weeks back and gave up once it dawned on me that I remembered every little thing about it all over again. But I really like Jaheira's romance in BG2- if you can get everything to trigger its pretty great. Viconia's is good too, if you like getting Gaidered.

In the absence of any good DA news and until next week when the Leliana DLC comes out, I'm watching Steam to see if any crazy deals hit during their Summer sale.

Modifié par Brockololly, 28 juin 2010 - 04:21 .

[Fntsybks]

Brockololly wrote...

I think part of the problem with Awakening and the conversation system was that there were too many new companions to get to know on top of the somewhat gimped conversation mechanic. If you had more returning characters with an already known  backstory, the new system might work better. Or just fewer characters given the size of the expansion. I just think that at least right after you recruit someone, you should be able to ask them at least some general background type questions. It just seems odd to go, "Oh hey, I know nothing about you- want to be a Grey Warden?" 

I don't have a problem necessarily with the notion of more conversations being based on stuff in the world, but the actual mechanics of it need to be brushed up- I really hate clicking on an inanimate object to start a conversation when you don't know who will start talking or what about. And I hate clicking on an object when the actual person is right there- it just takes away any agency from the player and I felt like Origins did a really good job of letting the player feel empowered rather than just sitting back while everyone else starts talking at the player and such.

Easy solution to having to click on objects for a conversation - trigger them automatically when a player passes one, just as in the conversation when you enter Kal'Sharok/when you see the archdemon in the Deep Roads. Those moments were far more natural than "I'm going to click on a floating boat!!!"

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

I think part of the problem with Awakening and the conversation system was that there were too many new companions to get to know on top of the somewhat gimped conversation mechanic. If you had more returning characters with an already known  backstory, the new system might work better. Or just fewer characters given the size of the expansion. I just think that at least right after you recruit someone, you should be able to ask them at least some general background type questions. It just seems odd to go, "Oh hey, I know nothing about you- want to be a Grey Warden?" 

I don't have a problem necessarily with the notion of more conversations being based on stuff in the world, but the actual mechanics of it need to be brushed up- I really hate clicking on an inanimate object to start a conversation when you don't know who will start talking or what about. And I hate clicking on an object when the actual person is right there- it just takes away any agency from the player and I felt like Origins did a really good job of letting the player feel empowered rather than just sitting back while everyone else starts talking at the player and such.

Those are pretty good points Brock.

I'll just add that the problem was indentifying conversation triggers and linking them to the right companion.
A good example is Sigrun talking about a tree in Wending Woods. That particular tree didn't stand out in any way and even if I did notice it I'd sooner expect Velanna to start talking about it, than a dwarf.
Then there's the boat in the Fade which you can easily miss is you don't have Oghren with you and, once you're done with that part of the game, you can't come back and click on it later.

I think that rather then run around looking for inanimate object to interact with it would have been better if the companions themselves started talking to you once you're near a point of interest, similar to how Sten would comment on some things while in your party and you could bring it up with him later on in the camp.

So, for example, rather than ask Morrigan about her life in the Wilds right off the bat, you could have the situation where the group enters the Chantry in Lothering and Morrigan will spy a templar standing guard inside and makes a comment about how she wouldn't be welcome here if they knew she was an apostate. That would unlock her dialogue about apostates, being hunted by templars and growing up in the Wilds with Flemeth. You could then ask her about these things right there or later when you're back at camp.
Not the perfect scenario but I feel it would play out more naturaly then clicking on some random statue or tree.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 28 juin 2010 - 04:53 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Fewer companions would make things easier. In DAO, I actually preferred avoiding the acquisition of some party members altogether just because of the fact that most of them would just be camp campers. Having a smaller collection of companions made it seem more like a close-knit group instead of a small army.

[Brockololly]

Fntsybks wrote...

Easy solution to having to click on objects for a conversation - trigger them automatically when a player passes one, just as in the conversation when you enter Kal'Sharok/when you see the archdemon in the Deep Roads. Those moments were far more natural than "I'm going to click on a floating boat!!!"

Exactly- I'd prefer if the conversations auto triggered rather than clicking on random objects. The clicking on random objects for me at least just brings about a disconnect because as a player I'm clicking on an unremarkable object which causes a seemingly random companion to start talking about some random topic. There just weren't any predictable rules or logic to the Awakening system. While in Origins at least, if you wanted to talk, either the NPC would start on their own, or you'd click on the actual person and ask questions- that seems so much more natural than Awakening.

Master Shiori wrote...
I'll just add that the problem was indentifying conversation triggers
and linking them to the right companion.
A good example is Sigrun
talking about a tree in Wending Woods. That particular tree didn't stand
out in any way and even if I did notice it I'd sooner expect Velanna to
start talking about it, than a dwarf.
Then there's the boat in the
Fade which you can easily miss is you don't have Oghren with you and,
once you're done wit that part of the game, you can't come back and
click on it later.

Right- there was no logic to most of the conversation points, and design wise I think thats a big flaw. Why does a non-descript board in Amaranthine trigger Oghren to start talking about a rash? Huh?

Master Shiori wrote...
I think that rather then run around looking
for inanimate object to onteract with it would have been better if the
companions themselves started talking to you once you're near the point
of interest, similar to how Sten would comment on some things while in
your party and you could bring it up with him later on in the camp.

Agreed- or even like the gift system. You talk about something with a companion in the provacy of camp and then once out in the world, you see something that was mentioned in a camp conversation and it auto triggers the companion to talk about it and shed light on their background. Or the other way around, where maybe you see something out in the world, which causes a quick comment that gets marked down in your journal as a reminder to talk to companion X about event/item Y that you encountered while out adventuring.

I just hope they don't have it so you get shut down from dialogue from companions if you don't take them with you. I understand how that might be more realistic, but thats already one of my problems with Sten- I rarely need another warrior to take out on the road, but I like him as a character and don't want to miss out on heaps of dialogue.

[Brockololly]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Fewer companions would make things easier. In DAO, I actually preferred avoiding the acquisition of some party members altogether just because of the fact that most of them would just be camp campers. Having a smaller collection of companions made it seem more like a close-knit group instead of a small army.

I wouldn't mind fewer companions so long as they were more fleshed out. In an expansion pack that especially makes sense I think.

Alternatively, I wish there was some mechanic where the companions you leave at camp could be given some task. Maybe Wynne makes health poultices or different stuff like that. Maybe Zevran or Leliana scouts around the camp and in turn discovers stuff that turns into new quests.

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...
Brock, you watch 24?  Awesome!!!! What did you think of the series finale? Kind of anti-climactic if you ask me, but at least it's gonna lead into the movie which is hopefully gonna give Jack the ending he deserves.

Haha- Well I watched 24- I was hooked on the first 5 seasons more or less as I'd wait and watch them in a big marathon after the season was over. Good mindless Die Hard type action fun. But season 6 was kind of "meh" and I really lost interest after the Writer's strike, so I actually haven't seen any of the last season yet. I'll probably get around to it eventually. I still think they screwed over the show at the beginning of season 5 by needlessly killing off so many characters... ah well.

GardenSnake wrote...
But about DA, did you guys hear about Leliana's Song? It's got the ME convo system  It technically makes sense seeing as the fact that it would be a total waste of Kempa's time to just record voice over for a scene here and there, but I really hope that's not the direction they're going in for DA2.

I think the ME style convo system should be fine for Leliana's DLC. It basically was in Origins already if you take Morrigan into the Fade to rescue Connor. But going forward I hope they don't use it in DA. It works for ME since you're not actually Shep, but in DA its a 1st person PC, so you're supposed to be the PC and saying exactly the written responses. And doing all the extra VO is no doubt expensive and takes away from more dialogue choices.

GardenSnake wrote...
After playing Awakening through a second time and actually getting all of the characters to like me, I still found it very difficult to connect with them and I think it's because of the lack of intimacy between you and your companions that the Origins' system provides.

Agreed- that and the bugs I had which often makes approval an impossible feat. The Origins system could definitely be improved, but I feel like with Awakening they just threw the baby out with the bathwater. I understand that the writers dislike the laundry list of questions that always pop up, but I loathe how in Awakening you can only click on objects to start conversations or the companions act all indignant when you click on them to try and chat.  The Awakening system made it all feel more like a mini game whereas I felt Origins' system was much more natural and immersive. You basically just had to pace yourself with the dialogue.

GardenSnake wrote...
And I want DA2 news too... this is starting to get ridiculous......

Yeah.... E3 was disappointing. My hope now lies with Gamescom in August I think. Perhaps DA2 will be on the cover of the August Game Informer or maybe we'll get another teaser with the Leliana DLC? I'm grasping at straws at  this point as far as what BioWare's marketing plan regarding the 2/1/2011 date all means.

My thoughts exactly on Shep, no matter how he/she looks and no matter the choices you make, your not Shep, Shep is just a reflection of you. The Warden on the other hand, is supposed to be you in this epic fantasy world.
Trying new things in terms of engines and other 'under the hood' things in gaming is great and natural. If it wasn't for trying new things we'd all still be playing Pong. But throwing aside the tride and true just doesn't make sense to me, not one bit. Didn't KOTOR use the DA convo system and somehow managed to space out the options? Hey ya, come to think of it, it did! You couldn't just assault Carth with questions and find out why he doesn't trust easily, it was a gradual thing. This did greatly limit the amount of things the two of you could talk about, but Bioware could most certainly figure out how to work around that right? And to reply to Swoo at the same time (should have quoted him, oh well) the only characters I cared for in the slightest were Justice, Oghren and Anders. The lack of a connection to other characters actually made me detest some of them, for example I really hate Sigrun for no apparent reason  and to me, Nathaniel just seems like an emo kid who won't stop complaining about his dad. Bioware didn't really flesh out some of the characters either. Velanna for instance is just like Morrigan (attitude wise and looks wise to some extent) but the only difference is that instead of being a **** for some of the game because she's had no experience with the outside world and because she values power, she's just a **** for the sake of being a ****.

What pisses me off about DA2 is the fact that it's so obvious that they're making it. Ray reffered to the game BY NAME in an interview, he didn't even try to hide the fact that they were making it. Here's the interview: http://g4tv.com/thef...r-Visuals-.html So what gives Bioware? JUST ADMITTING It AT THIs POINt WOULD Be ENOUGH FOR ME.

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Fewer companions would make things easier. In DAO, I actually preferred avoiding the acquisition of some party members altogether just because of the fact that most of them would just be camp campers. Having a smaller collection of companions made it seem more like a close-knit group instead of a small army.

I wouldn't mind fewer companions so long as they were more fleshed out. In an expansion pack that especially makes sense I think.

Alternatively, I wish there was some mechanic where the companions you leave at camp could be given some task. Maybe Wynne makes health poultices or different stuff like that. Maybe Zevran or Leliana scouts around the camp and in turn discovers stuff that turns into new quests.

That's actually a great idea, I hadn't thought of that.

[Brockololly]

GardenSnake wrote...

That's actually a great idea, I hadn't thought of that.

Regarding the whole Awakening dialogue system shenanigans, this thread is pretty much required reading. Gaider posted a bunch in it and there are some really good ideas in it for how they could tweak the dialogue going forward.

[Mustang678]

Hey, do you guys think Morrigan would've vouched for sparing the Architect or killing him? I could see her go either way

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Alternatively, I wish there was some mechanic where the companions you leave at camp could be given some task. Maybe Wynne makes health poultices or different stuff like that. Maybe Zevran or Leliana scouts around the camp and in turn discovers stuff that turns into new quests.

That's a great idea.

The problem with Gaider saying you should bring the companions with you in order to experience their dialogue is that it effectively takes away the freedom of choice when it comes to making up your group.

In Origins there were 2 of each type of companions: 2 hander warriors (Sten and Oghren), 2 mages (Morrigan and Wynne), 2 rogues (Zevran and Leliana), 2 tanks (Shale and Alistair).

This meant that you would usually pick one of them to fullfil a certain role and leave the other at camp. This gave us the freedom to build groups as we wanted.

I don't want for DA2 to force me into using someone I'm not interested in just to be able to have a conversation with him/her.

[Master Shiori]

Mustang678 wrote...

Hey, do you guys think Morrigan would've vouched for sparing the Architect or killing him? I could see her go either way

Hmm, that's a tough one.

I can see her being in favour of siding with him in order to learn more about the darkspawn and to make killing the mother easier.

However, if she considers his plans to be a danger to her own (getting the OGB), she'll likely demand that you kill him.

This question just makes me wish we had a mix of companions from Origins and Awakening in the expansion.

Can you imagine some of the hillarious dialogues they could have with each other?

Sten and Anders talking about Ser Pounce-a-lot. Morrigan having an argument with Velanna. Nathaniel talking with Leliana or Zevran. Anders driving Wynne nuts or picking on Alistair for being an ex-templar. Sten and Sigrun discussing the Legion of the Dead. Leliana wanting to make a ballad about Sigrun and Kal'Hirol.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 28 juin 2010 - 06:56 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

The problem with Gaider saying you should bring the companions with you in order to experience their dialogue is that it effectively takes away the freedom of choice when it comes to making up your group.

In Origins there were 2 of each type of companions: 2 hander warriors (Sten and Oghren), 2 mages (Morrigan and Wynne), 2 rogues (Zevran and Leliana), 2 tanks (Shale and Alistair).

This meant that you would usually pick one of them to fullfil a certain role and leave the other at camp. This gave us the freedom to build groups as we wanted.

I don't want for DA2 to force me into using someone I'm not interested in just to be able to have a conversation with him/her.

Right- I understand the desire to have more fleshed out relationships with the companions you constantly take out adeventuring, but I'd hate it if that means you get stone walled in trying to get to know other companions. Sten is already kind of like that where you potentially miss out on a decent chunk of dialogue if you don't take him out with you.

For instance, most of the time if I'm playing as a DW warrior, I'll have Alistair be my tank, bring Morrigan and Leliana as my lockpicker. I like Zevran as a character, but more often than not I won't use him too much initially because he isn't worth much to me as a rogue who can't lockpick. There are those sorts of gameplay considerations BioWare would hopefully make before limiting character development to "active" party members.

It just sucks in games when you know there is extra content available but you know its "hidden" and won't see it in one playthrough. I'm not talking about divergent choices or anything but more like conversation stuff- like if you don't take Sten around or if you don't feel like playing dialogue scavenger hunt in Awakening.

Mustang678 wrote...

Hey, do you guys think Morrigan
would've vouched for sparing the Architect or killing him? I could see
her go either way

Its funny- in Awakening, I often thought "What would Morrigan do?" I missed Alistair, Leliana and Morrigan in Awakening as they'd often give you the range of "good" to "bad" views on various choices.

I'm pretty sure Morrigan would have been in favor of letting Amaranthine burn and going to defend Vigil's Keep. That seems like the harsh sort of decision she'd approve of. As for the Architect- hmmmm... I don't know. I'd imagine much of that would depend on her Old God Baby plan. After all, at least in The Calling, the Architect's plan was to find all of the slumbering Old Gods and kill them before they could start a Blight. So would he want to kill an Old God in human form? More importantly, does a purified Old God in human form still emit the Song of the Old Gods that draws the darkspawn? And would an Old God in human form be able to be corrupted and turned into an Archdemon by contact with the darkspawn?

If the Architect still wants to kill the Old Gods, then I'd imagine Morrigan and the Architect might be adversaries. Its a very interesting question though...

[Master Shiori]

Could someone who read the Calling please explain to me what the Architects goals are in that book?

Are they the same as those in Awakening; use the blood of the Wardens to "free" the darkspawn?
I always got the impression that he's portrayed as too altruistic in Awakening and that there may be much darker motives that he didn't reveal.

Was he truly born with a free will? Does he ever explain what the darkspawn would do once they're free from the call of the Old Gods?

Modifié par Master Shiori, 28 juin 2010 - 08:02 .

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Could someone who read the Calling please explain to me what the Architects goals are in that book?

Are they the same as those in Awakening; use the blood of the Wardens to "free" the darkspawn?
I always got the impression that he's portrayed as too altruistic in Awakening and that there may be much darker motives that he didn't reveal.

Was he truly born with a free will? Does he ever explain what the darkspawn would do once they're free from the call of the Old Gods?

Basically, ***(Spoilers for The Calling ahead!)****, in The Calling, the Architect captures a Grey Warden who was going on his Calling. Through magic, he accelerates the Taint in the Warden essentially causing the Warden to now become a ghoul-darkspawn hybrid. He looks like a hurlock, but retains his human intelligence. What the Architect seeks to do is through the use of darkspawn magic,  basically force the Joining ritual on everyone on the surface in all of the major cities of Thedas. Doing this would of course result in tons of people dying, but those that survive would then have their new Warden Taint accelerated so they become the ghoul-darkspawn hybrid. And then darkspawn and the ghoul-darkspawn people could live happily ever after. Then the Architect could have everyone search out and kill the slumbering Old Gods to free the darkspawn from their Call.

So basically the major change to his plan in Awakening is instead of forcing a change on humans and surfacers to become more like darkspawn it seems he wants the darkspawn to become more like humans. But who is to say that he would stop there once all darkspawn are "awakened?" It seems like at the heart of all his plans he wants the darkspawn free from the Old Gods and wants surfacers and darkspawn to just get along, no matter the cost.

I don't believe he ever explains what he'd have the darkspawn do once free though. I honestly don't know if he's thought that far out.

Modifié par Brockololly, 28 juin 2010 - 08:16 .

[Master Shiori]

The thing is he strikes me as a child who is doing things out of curiousity to see what the effect would be.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I should be more concerned about another Archdemon or about the Architect succeding in his plans...

On the side note:

I just read the entire Dragon Age timeline at DA Wikia and some interesting fact have come to light:

1) It says that Malferath and Andraste may have led their barabarian army north in order to flee from the darkspawn invading the south of Thedas. This resulted in them coming into conflict with Tevinter Imperium on whose land they intruded.

2) Elves of the Dales wagged a war against Orlais, sacking a number of cities and even capturing Val Royeaux. This is what supposedly triggered the Exalted March on the Dales.

3) After the schism between the Imperial Chantry and the Andrastean Chantry, many mages choose to journey to Tevinter and in order to be free from the Chantry's control. This influx of mages helped the Imperium wheather the Qunari invasions.

4) On Magus War Boots in Origins there is an inscription that says magic will rise again in future ages. Could be a hint of what Morrigan is planning to do with the OGB.

5) According to the wikia, the previous Blights had Darkspawn popping up all over Thedas at the same time during a single Blight. In Origins they apparently only attacked Ferelden, which is rather unusual considering their previous modus operandi.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 28 juin 2010 - 08:40 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Master Shiori wrote...

The thing is he strikes me as a child who is doing things out of curiousity to see what the effect would be.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I should be more concerned about another Archdemon or about the Architect succeding in his plans...

On the side note:

I just read the entire Dragon Age timeline at DA Wikia and some interesting fact have come to light:

1) It says that Malferath and Andraste may ahve led their barabarian army north in order to flee from the darkspawn inviding the south of Thedas. This resulted in them coming into conflict with Tevinter Imperium on whose land they intruded.

2) Elves of the Dales wagged a war against Orlais, sacking a number of cities and even capturing Val Royeaux. This is what supposedly triggered the Exalted March on the Dales.

3) After the schism between the Imperial Chantry and the Andrastean Chantry, many mages choose to journey to Tevinter and in order to be free from the Chantry's control. This influx of mages helped the Imperium wheather the Qunari invasions.

4) On Magus War Boots in Origins there is an inscription that says magic will rise again in future ages. Could be a hint of what Morrigan is planning to do with the OGB.

5) According to the wikia, the previous Blights had Darkspawn popping up all over Thedas at the same time during a single Blight. In Origins they apparently only attacked Ferelden, which is rather unusual considering their previous modus operandi.

So there ya go - 3 potential power players: Another archdemon, the OGB (if the DR was performed), and the Architect (if he was spared)


One place I hope will become a key location later on is Weißhaupt Fortress. Considering its importance to the Grey Wardens and our Grey Warden's little interaction with other Grey Wardens (especially well-established ones), it's one place I'd definitely like to see.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

The thing is he strikes me as a child who is doing things out of curiousity to see what the effect would be.

Honestly, I'm not sure if I should be more concerned about another Archdemon or about the Architect succeding in his plans...

The thing that makes the Architect dangerous is that while his intentions of stopping the Blights aren't bad, he has absolutely no sense of morality. He's like a scientist with no ethics, willing to do whatever it takes to get the results he seeks. If that means killing millions of people by forcing the Joining on them, to him thats a worthy price to pay. He is very similar to a Warden, but his motivation in ending the Blights comes from a different place than the Wardens.

Master Shiori wrote...
5) According to the wikia, the previous Blights had Darkspawn popping up all over Thedas at the same time during a single Blight. In Origins they apparently only attacked Ferelden, which is rather unusual considering their previous modus operandi.

Yeah, I feel like we got a wimpy Blight in Origins. By all accounts the Blight is supposed to be some horrific earth shattering thing, yet in Origins it never felt that way. I know it was basically because the Warden stopped it before it even began, but still, it never seemed like much was on the line. You never really doubted that you would fail. I'd like to see more games end like ME2 where there is an ending where you can straight up fail- not just to beat the last boss, but to have people die and really make the endgame be a part where you wonder if you've done everything you could to prepare and succeed.

MKDAWUSS wrote...

One place I hope will become a key
location later on is Weißhaupt Fortress. Considering its importance to
the Grey Wardens and our Grey Warden's little interaction with other
Grey Wardens (especially well-established ones), it's one place I'd
definitely like to see.

As long as the PC is still a Warden, I hope we go there eventually. Especially if your Warden did the DR, I'd love to see the more senior Wardens question your survival or just to interact with other Wardens like in The Calling. And it would be interesting to take Alistair there and see if Fiona is still around...

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
5) According to the wikia, the previous Blights had Darkspawn popping up all over Thedas at the same time during a single Blight. In Origins they apparently only attacked Ferelden, which is rather unusual considering their previous modus operandi.

Yeah, I feel like we got a wimpy Blight in Origins. By all accounts the Blight is supposed to be some horrific earth shattering thing, yet in Origins it never felt that way. I know it was basically because the Warden stopped it before it even began, but still, it never seemed like much was on the line. You never really doubted that you would fail. I'd like to see more games end like ME2 where there is an ending where you can straight up fail- not just to beat the last boss, but to have people die and really make the endgame be a part where you wonder if you've done everything you could to prepare and succeed.

And RTO made the whole premise of the darkspawn overrunning Ostagar a bit awkward, since you could head back there and head back out with only a seemingly meager amount of darkspawn resistance.

I would like more games where you can play past failures. Hopefully we can have failures of varying significants in later DA installments, some of which can radically affect the outcome of the game at many points.

MKDAWUSS wrote...

One place I hope will become a key
location later on is Weißhaupt Fortress. Considering its importance to
the Grey Wardens and our Grey Warden's little interaction with other
Grey Wardens (especially well-established ones), it's one place I'd
definitely like to see.

As long as the PC is still a Warden, I hope we go there eventually. Especially if your Warden did the DR, I'd love to see the more senior Wardens question your survival or just to interact with other Wardens like in The Calling. And it would be interesting to take Alistair there and see if Fiona is still around...

The DR would make for an interesting convo, but would something like that be something they'd know about happening? I think the only ones who knew would be Morrigan, the Warden, and possibly Alistair or Loghain. From what I could tell, not even your companions knew that Grey Wardens died when slaying an archdemon -- they thought that if you were going to die, it would be because the AD killed you by standard methods. I don't know how detailed their knowledge is of who slew the AD, and if that's the case, no one would question how you survived slaying an AD if you did the DR.

Regardless, having our PC Warden interact with the mainstream GW Order would be worthwhile experience. I still feel disconnected to the Grey Wardens in that respect.