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[ximena]

*hops into thread momentarily*



2 new pages up. I could not stop myself from releasing it. XD These first few pages was actually inspired by a post a few pages back. (I'm sorry. I do not really keep tabs. >_> )



01

02

[Fault Girl]

 With the whole issue of the other GW coming down hard on your PC/Alistair for allowing such an "abomination" to occur, there should be an option of saying how it just the two of you fighting a whole Blight and that they should be kissing your feet:mellow:

[KnightofPhoenix]

ZombieGeisha wrote...

 With the whole issue of the other GW coming down hard on your PC/Alistair for allowing such an "abomination" to occur, there should be an option of saying how it just the two of you fighting a whole Blight and that they should be kissing your feet:mellow:

Well they don't come down that hard. They knew something wasn't right when my Cousland and Loghain did not die at Denerim, and they still made Cousland the Warden Commander in Ferelden. 
In fact, the Wardens' reaction to the matter is pretty much non-existent except for what Alistair / Loghain say at the end, which is pretty underwhelming.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 juin 2010 - 06:25 .

[Fault Girl]

 I think it's the case of turning a blind eye..!
Ignorance is bliss 

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

*hops into thread momentarily*

2 new pages up. I could not stop myself from releasing it. XD These first few pages was actually inspired by a post a few pages back. (I'm sorry. I do not really keep tabs. >_> )

01
02

Chapter 2!!! YEEEESSS!!!

Good thing you posted them. I was having a really bad case of MorriXEdric withdrawal.

[Swoo]

In fact, the Wardens' reaction to the matter is pretty much non-existent except for what Alistair / Loghain say at the end, which is pretty underwhelming

I don't consider Awakening canon for anything but an Orleasean honestly. Baldur's Gate basically ignored Tales of the Sword Coast moving into BG2 other than some drops, and I think DA2 will do the same. I believe the Warden's were sending inquiries to Alistair or Anora after the Archdemon had died but hadn't arrived yet to do any sort of formal questioning, and 50% of the Warden's split before they could arrive while the other 50% were beyond their reach now thanks to political clout. I'd like to see it expanded on in the Feb game. Perhaps thats one of the ways they can move you to the West without resorting to the Arena Scrolls/Early-Bioware 'You have been kidnapped, time to break out!' plot bridges.

Imagine the Warden along with maybe Alistair/Loghain  being called up to
Weisshaupt to explain their whole being alive and getting to interact
with all the various Wardens there. Surely there would be Wardens ok
with your actions and other hardcore ones that despise them.

Whoop, someone was a step ahead of me. Yes, that does sound highly interesting and is part of the friction I would like to see with a Ferelden Warden running into the Weisshauptian Order.

My impression is that most of the Tevinter folks pretty much said "screw
you Old Gods" once the darkspawn appeared and the other Old Gods did
nothing to help out.

The T.E. took the brunt of the first Blight and was almost wiped out. Seeing the Tevinter's pretty much screwed, Andraste called a Exalted March on them and even though the Tevinter's 'won' against her, they converted to the teachings of the Maker afterwards because they knew they wouldn't survive a second March. I think if the Old God's came back they would fall into line rather quickly, most likely not overtly though. I see the Anrastian relegion as more a thing of survival and convienience than an actual movement for change. From what we can tell of them currently, they seem to live by the teachings of the Old Gods more than Andrastae currently anyways.

Tevinter Imperium claims it's magisters were mapping out portions of the
Fade when something bad happened which made them give up on exploring
the Fade.

It's actually one of the first First Enchanters who says that it. It's interesting because it's one of the few times we don't recieve the 'We conquered you, we can say whatever we want to' angle in which just about anything related to the T.E. is demonized by Andrastian writers/tellers.

I think that's the best thing about religion in DA. You cannot really
prove the existence of a god anymore than you could do it in real world.
It all comes down to faith.

I don't know, the whole Holy Grail bit pretty much confirms that the Maker is kicking around somewhere. The big question happens to be are they much like Forgotten Realms and a God is just a really, really powerful creature  that 'rules' over multitudes of mortals, or how many of our current cultures percieve them as mystical, 'I Am All' entities.

Good thing you posted them. I was having a really bad case of
MorriXMage withdrawal.

Indeed.

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

I don't consider Awakening canon for anything but an Orleasean honestly. Baldur's Gate basically ignored Tales of the Sword Coast moving into BG2 other than some drops, and I think DA2 will do the same. I believe the Warden's were sending inquiries to Alistair or Anora after the Archdemon had died but hadn't arrived yet to do any sort of formal questioning, and 50% of the Warden's split before they could arrive while the other 50% were beyond their reach now thanks to political clout. I'd like to see it expanded on in the Feb game. Perhaps thats one of the ways they can move you to the West without resorting to the Arena Scrolls/Early-Bioware 'You have been kidnapped, time to break out!' plot bridges.

If we return as the Warden and the darkspawn still figure into the story, I could imagine BioWare possibly setting the Architect's fate as canon if need be. I think one of the easy ways to plunk the PC down in a non-Ferelden area would be that either you were called to Weisshaupt to explain 1.) How you survived killing the Archdemon? or 2.) What did you find out about the Architect? Maybe even have it all start with your Warden on trial or something in front of the other Wardens. Maybe have the Warden start in Weisshaupt, then something happens ( you get imprisoned, and break out/ the new Blight destroys Weisshaupt and you have to escape/ insert plot device that gets you back down to Orlais).  Good times. Or they could have the PC off at Montsimmard, which is the nearest Grey Warden fortress in Orlais, I think.

Swoo wrote...
I don't know, the whole Holy Grail bit pretty much confirms that the Maker is kicking around somewhere. The big question happens to be are they much like Forgotten Realms and a God is just a really, really powerful creature  that 'rules' over multitudes of mortals, or how many of our current cultures percieve them as mystical, 'I Am All' entities.

The curious thing is whether or not religion in DA is derived from more spiritual type notions of God like you mentioned or just magically powerful Forgotten Realms type Gods. Not sure we'll ever find out either way. I just hope they don't explain away all the mysteries of the Fade and the Maker- some answers are good but don't turn it into "midichlorians controlling the Force" mumbo jumbo.

ximena wrote...

*hops into thread momentarily*

2
new pages up. I could not stop myself from releasing it. XD These first
few pages was actually inspired by a post a few pages back. (I'm sorry. I
do not really keep tabs. >_> )

HUZZAH!:happy:

[Master Shiori]

@Swoo



If by "Holy Grail" you mean the Sacred Ashes then that doesn't really prove anything, since Oghren says the mountain that houses the temple is rich in lyrium which could explain the healing powers of the Ashes themselves.



My personal opinion is that there isn't an omnipotent deity in DA that created everything, and even if there was it's clear he doesn't give a rat's ass about the mortal world.



Andraste was most likely a powerfull mage who used the whole "prophet of the Maker" ploy to gather support against the T.E. (what better way to dethrone someone than to call him an infidel and start a religious war).



Then she got barbequed and her followers decided that the whole "Bride of the Maker" thing was a nice ticket to power and influence and started spreading the Chant.

[soignee]

Master Shiori wrote...

ximena wrote...

*hops into thread momentarily*

2 new pages up. I could not stop myself from releasing it. XD These first few pages was actually inspired by a post a few pages back. (I'm sorry. I do not really keep tabs. >_> )

01
02

Chapter 2!!! YEEEESSS!!!

Good thing you posted them. I was having a really bad case of MorriXEdric withdrawal.

it updated? HURRAH!

[Swoo]

Master Shiori wrote...

@Swoo

If by "Holy Grail" you mean the Sacred Ashes then that doesn't really prove anything, since Oghren says the mountain that houses the temple is rich in lyrium which could explain the healing powers of the Ashes themselves.

And that makes the units of Knights immortal like the Knights of the Grail who also rock some mad telepathy? Or the spirits from both your and Andrastae's past? And then you add the ashes into the mix along with fire that doesn't burn, magical stepping stones, and whatnot. I'm thinking that's a bit more than 'These caves be magic!'

I think it pretty much solidifies the Makers existence, like I said before though the question becomes is he just some super-powerful 'Other' or really the end all, be all?

Modifié par Swoo, 29 juin 2010 - 11:29 .

[Fntsybks]

Swoo wrote...

The T.E. took the brunt of the first Blight and was almost wiped out. Seeing the Tevinter's pretty much screwed, Andraste called a Exalted March on them and even though the Tevinter's 'won' against her, they converted to the teachings of the Maker afterwards because they knew they wouldn't survive a second March. I think if the Old God's came back they would fall into line rather quickly, most likely not overtly though. I see the Anrastian relegion as more a thing of survival and convienience than an actual movement for change. From what we can tell of them currently, they seem to live by the teachings of the Old Gods more than Andrastae currently anyways.

Originally, the Tevinters might have converted for convenience, but remember that it has been hundreds of years - everyone should be thoroughly converted. Rome converted in a few hundred years, and the Tevinters will have done the same. The only way for the Tevinters to give up their current religion is if the Old Gods returned, and even that would cause popular discontent/rebellion. The magisters would side with whoever gave them power, but you can't just take an established religion and completely upend it within a few years - it took a Blight and a barbarian horde to establish the Andrastianism, and even then it took time to convert everyone. Anyway, my basic point is that we shouldn't expect Tevinter to automatically side with the Old Gods and re-convert, unless something shocking happened. 

[Brockololly]

Thats the big catch in my view with regards to the Gauntlet and Urn of Sacred Ashes- In real life, if someone went through the Gauntlet you'd be damn convinced that all of that was some serious Maker stuff going on. Yet in the world of Dragon Age, you've got crazy magic that can do really crazy, otherworldly stuff too. It could be that the Guardian was some sort of Wynne/Flemeth like abomination that was tied to some Fade spirit or maybe the lyrium veins were messing with you. I think another thing to keep in mind that the entire notion of the Maker seems to go beyond the Fade- I think it might be in Awakening with Justice, but its mentioned that the Fade isn't like th afterlife necessarily; where souls go when they die is even beyond the understanding of the Fade demons and spirits.

Its nice that its not explained in absolutes either way, frankly. I like to think it was mostly "divine" as that just seems a bit more intriguing than saying it was just all chalked up to some mineral in the ground. But even then that still leaves the question of who/what the Maker is, like Swoo mentioned.

And I love the Gauntlet because its totally like Indiana Jones..oh yeah.

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 juin 2010 - 12:34 .

[Swoo]

True Fntsy, but the Tevinter's from what we have shown and what we have read are far from conforming to the beliefs of Andraste's Church. I think if the nature of many of their practices right now are tolerated because they keep the Qunari 'busy', but if the Church was confronted with the slavery, the mageocracy at all levels, the Blood Magic, the breach in teachings and Dogma (look no farther than Andraste herself), then I think they would toss out an excommunication paired with a March in a heartbeat. You could be right, I just find it very hard to believe the Teventir's would hold on to beliefs that paint them as personal villains, abominations waiting to happen and needing to be leashed, full of deviant beliefs and abilities, if another option that wouldn't lead to instant eradication became apparent.



Yeah Brock, it was total Indiana Jones. I found it to be one of the rare puzzles Bioware has included in it's games I don't mind doing over and over because it's interactive, interesting, and has that specific tip of the hat to it that I love.



Shiori could be totally right, everyone knows I am no fan of the Chantry and would love to be able to say 'Oh really, they say the Maker is for sure real wheeeere?', but even I have to grit my teeth and say that I can't really deny he exists after that, I can just wonder if he's as big and powerful as they say.

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...
Yeah Brock, it was total Indiana Jones. I found it to be one of the rare puzzles Bioware has included in it's games I don't mind doing over and over because it's interactive, interesting, and has that specific tip of the hat to it that I love.

Thats one thing I hope we see more of in DA2- good puzzles. One reason I love the whole Gauntlet part of the Sacred Ashes quest is because its not just pure hack-n-slash, you've got a mix.

More puzzle quests and maybe some more dialogue based quests would be nice. Maybe like Samara's loyalty mission from ME2 where its pretty much all dialogue but still ( IMO) pretty cool. Or maybe more detective type quests, like the one from BG2 with the Skinner murderer guy.

[Fntsybks]

Swoo wrote...

True Fntsy, but the Tevinter's from what we have shown and what we have read are far from conforming to the beliefs of Andraste's Church. I think if the nature of many of their practices right now are tolerated because they keep the Qunari 'busy', but if the Church was confronted with the slavery, the mageocracy at all levels, the Blood Magic, the breach in teachings and Dogma (look no farther than Andraste herself), then I think they would toss out an excommunication paired with a March in a heartbeat. You could be right, I just find it very hard to believe the Teventir's would hold on to beliefs that paint them as personal villains, abominations waiting to happen and needing to be leashed, full of deviant beliefs and abilities, if another option that wouldn't lead to instant eradication became apparent.

I agree that the magisters do not love the Chantry and would be quick to convert, but I was refering more to the common people than to the magisters. The commoners wouldn't support slavery - they couldn't afford slaves and would fear becoming one, they would dislike the higher status of the mages, as would anyone who missed out on what is essentially a lottery. At least on those levels, the Chantry would be more appealing than Old God worship, which would likely elevate the mages even further. And I agree that any attempt to convert the people, coupled with the Tevinters' existing practices, would likely result in an Exalted March.

[Master Shiori]

The Andrastean Chantry ahs already excommunicated it's Tevinter counterparts and declared no fewer than 3 Exalted Marches against them, coupled in with several assassination atempts on the Black Divine and Archon himself. Going by that I'd say the relationship between the people of Tevinter and Andrastean Chantry are as bad as they can get and wouldn't be surprised at all if the Tevinters grabbed the first opportunity to revert back to the worship of the Old Gods, especially if those Gods became active once again and start granting gifts to help the declining Imperium.



As for all the weird stuff in Temeple of the Ashes, most of these things can be explained as magic.

The numerous wraiths you encounter throughout the temple and the gauntlet are people transformed into spirits by the Holy Brazier (same one you light to open the door into the rest of the temple). As spirits they can sense the thoughts and emotions of mortals and could see the events from your past or the past of your companions.

The fire before the Urn can also be simply interpreted as a magical trap.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think it's likely that an OGB might be integrated into Tevinter religion as some sort of Messiah figure. That would be interesting.

I wonder what blood mages would think of him / her as well. I am certain that Morrigan is going to teach the kid blood magic as it's a magical school like any other. What of demons? Could demons possess the OGB? Or is it impossible? So many things to consider. Hence why I think only a full sequel can address the OGB.

[Arrtis]

I see the kid getting an shapeshifter spec.
And through training and practice/with an old god soul.
He would be able to shapeshift into an old god form.

Modifié par Arrtis, 30 juin 2010 - 08:31 .

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think it's likely that an OGB might be integrated into Tevinter religion as some sort of Messiah figure. That would be interesting.
I wonder what blood mages would think of him / her as well. I am certain that Morrigan is going to teach the kid blood magic as it's a magical school like any other. What of demons? Could demons possess the OGB? Or is it impossible? So many things to consider. Hence why I think only a full sequel can address the OGB.

All very good points. There is soooo much potential with the OGB storyline as far as uncovering more about religion, the Fade, blood magic, history... I just think BioWare would be crazy not to pick that up as a major plotline for the sequel. DLC wouldn't cut it. And an expansion pack wouldn't cut it, at least not if its like Awakening. Maybe a ToB style ex-pack could be ok. I just think there is a ton of material they could use to further explore the DA world through Morrigan and the OGB.

Arrtis wrote...

I see the kid getting an shapeshifter spec.And through training and practice/with an old god soul.He would be able to shapeshift into an old god form.

I almost wonder if thats what Morrigan is after though too. She says you need to study the soul in order to shapeshift into it. I'd imagine as parent of an Old God, you could have ample opportunity to study it. Question is- what is the default form of an Old God's soul? Is it a High Dragon?

Giving Morrigan the chance to shapeshift into a badass dragon would certainly be one way to fancy up the shapeshifter spec for DA2...

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 juin 2010 - 02:28 .

[Arrtis]

It was part of her mothers plan also.

That may be the final stages of training for her to grasp great power.

Flemeth was able to be a high dragon that means somewhere down the line she studied it or something similar to it...which could be an old god.....She has lived for very long...

[Brockololly]

Arrtis wrote...
Flemeth was able to be a high dragon that means somewhere down the line she studied it or something similar to it...which could be an old god.....She has lived for very long...

Yeah thats another question brewing- whats the deal with Flemeth turning into a High Dragon? I think this is where the speculation of Flemeth and Morrigan maybe being in a dragon cult comes in. Or maybe Flemeth is some sort of Old God abomination herself?

Modifié par Brockololly, 30 juin 2010 - 03:04 .

[Master Shiori]

Ximena's newest Demons Within page is now up:

Page 3

[Tehjmayne]

rawr

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

Ximena's newest Demons Within page is now up:

Page 3

Awesome.

Why didn't they do something like that in Awakening? Argh! Just a tiny cutscene with the ring glowing, nothing more.

But instead of getting actual continuity and romance recognition we got Oghren and his fart jokes. Meh.

Modifié par blademaster7, 30 juin 2010 - 08:52 .

[Master Shiori]

Morrigan fans are the only ones who don't get any romance recognition outside of the epilogue.



Well, those who romanced Alistair and had him remain a Grey Warden rather than become a king are in the same boat actually.



I'd gladly trade a ring cutscene or a letter for seeing Morrigan again in DA2 though.