16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Quett]

Flemeth: The Korcari Wilds was just a setback!

[Giggles_Manically]

Imagines a beowolf scenario with Flemeth....



calls a home depot and asks for mind bleach.

[Ash Wind]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Swoo wrote...

1) We will be able to import our DA:O games into DA2.

You can import the DA:O 'World Information" into Awakening and that worked out swell. It's nice to hear they put the option in, but I'm not getting all excited over this until we hear that it's more than a nod and a handshake.

I agree with you on that one. To what end? Determine of Loghain is alive for a cameo and who is the ruler of Ferelden... which would probably just be a cameo also.

Only means anything if we're importing are Wardens, and as that's apparently not an option, Who really cares?

Taking the Loghain cameo alone, considering he's essentially a replacement for Alistair post-Landsmeet, anything more would probably require 2 entirely different sets of scripts, since Loghain and Alistair are entirely different personalities. Unless they intend to take their personalities away and essentially turn them into generic blanks whose personalities only show up for 1 or 2 lines.

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 10 juillet 2010 - 01:31 .

[phaonica]

Ash Wind wrote...

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Perhaps. How much influence do you want your decisions to have had?
Perhaps in the next 10 years, if you preserved the Anvil, you'll have access to golems to help you fight darkspawn?
Perhaps exiled!drunk!Alistair could be on your team as a companion if you didn't make him king?

If not simple cameos, what kind of impact would you hope to see, is what I'm asking.

[Ash Wind]

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Perhaps. How much influence do you want your decisions to have had?
Perhaps in the next 10 years, if you preserved the Anvil, you'll have access to golems to help you fight darkspawn?
Perhaps exiled!drunk!Alistair could be on your team as a companion if you didn't make him king?

If not simple cameos, what kind of impact would you hope to see, is what I'm asking.

If it isn't importing my warden, then none really. My point was that the message earlier seemed to imply that you could import a DA:O save, but if its only to make a few trivialities, the resources could be better spent.

Now, if it was my Warden (and I know it won't be), then if I kept Alistair in the Grey Wardens, having him as a Recruiitable character. If I killed Wynn in Origins... then she's dead. Etc.

[MKDAWUSS]

Ash Wind wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Perhaps. How much influence do you want your decisions to have had?
Perhaps in the next 10 years, if you preserved the Anvil, you'll have access to golems to help you fight darkspawn?
Perhaps exiled!drunk!Alistair could be on your team as a companion if you didn't make him king?

If not simple cameos, what kind of impact would you hope to see, is what I'm asking.

If it isn't importing my warden, then none really. My point was that the message earlier seemed to imply that you could import a DA:O save, but if its only to make a few trivialities, the resources could be better spent.

Now, if it was my Warden (and I know it won't be), then if I kept Alistair in the Grey Wardens, having him as a Recruiitable character. If I killed Wynn in Origins... then she's dead. Etc.

But would you want to see Alistair in DA2 if you killed him in Origins? At least importing your save should minimize any chances of having your "canon" screwed up.

[GardenSnake]

Read the Game Informer stuff. ****. Well, the impor things sounds kind of promising, but what really kills it for me is the combat system. You PC guys are lucky, its same old same old for you pretty much. I LIKED that Bioware at least tried to make it semi strategic on consoles. I don`t want to play Devil May Cry, they did say that it isn`t Dynasty Warriors at least. I don`t know what to make of the `more responsive when you press the button` comment......... it was perfectly fine in Origins. Still REALLY skeptical, but this cleared some stuff up. The import part doesn`t really do much for me. We`re not playing as the Warden anymore so stuff like `oh hey, did you know that Harrowmont is the king?` will just make me nostalgic in the man I wish I was my warden right now kind of way. Those screen shots looked really bad too...... I still trust Bioware, have to keep the faith.

[phaonica]

Ash Wind wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Perhaps. How much influence do you want your decisions to have had?
Perhaps in the next 10 years, if you preserved the Anvil, you'll have access to golems to help you fight darkspawn?
Perhaps exiled!drunk!Alistair could be on your team as a companion if you didn't make him king?

If not simple cameos, what kind of impact would you hope to see, is what I'm asking.

If it isn't importing my warden, then none really. My point was that the message earlier seemed to imply that you could import a DA:O save, but if its only to make a few trivialities, the resources could be better spent.

Now, if it was my Warden (and I know it won't be), then if I kept Alistair in the Grey Wardens, having him as a Recruiitable character. If I killed Wynn in Origins... then she's dead. Etc.

Yeah, I mean, this character is so far separated from the decisions that the Warden made, and those same decisions were so localized that I'm not sure what I would want from my previous playthroughs to influence the gameplay too much. I might not mind hearing something about King Bhelen, or something about a group of humans telling tales about having once been werewolves, or something. But again, that's cameo-level importance. They might as well not mention it at all and not bother with the programming that it takes to import the save.

Furthermore, would I have to play Origins over and over again to get different playthroughs of DA2 in order to experience the whole thing, if those decisions were critically important to some story branch? Admittedly I'd do that, but it seems like it'd be straight up a turn off to new consumers.

[phaonica]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

But would you want to see Alistair in DA2 if you killed him in Origins? At least importing your save should minimize any chances of having your "canon" screwed up.

No, I wouldn't. I would have wanted the developers to choose one way or the other. Either have me import a save, and make Alistair's appearance fit with my save, or design the game to not need Alistair because he doesn't survive everyone's playthrough.

Modifié par phaonica, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:00 .

[Ash Wind]

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Perhaps. How much influence do you want your decisions to have had?
Perhaps in the next 10 years, if you preserved the Anvil, you'll have access to golems to help you fight darkspawn?
Perhaps exiled!drunk!Alistair could be on your team as a companion if you didn't make him king?

If not simple cameos, what kind of impact would you hope to see, is what I'm asking.

If it isn't importing my warden, then none really. My point was that the message earlier seemed to imply that you could import a DA:O save, but if its only to make a few trivialities, the resources could be better spent.

Now, if it was my Warden (and I know it won't be), then if I kept Alistair in the Grey Wardens, having him as a Recruiitable character. If I killed Wynn in Origins... then she's dead. Etc.

Yeah, I mean, this character is so far separated from the decisions that the Warden made, and those same decisions were so localized that I'm not sure what I would want from my previous playthroughs to influence the gameplay too much. I might not mind hearing something about King Bhelen, or something about a group of humans telling tales about having once been werewolves, or something. But again, that's cameo-level importance. They might as well not mention it at all and not bother with the programming that it takes to import the save.

Furthermore, would I have to play Origins over and over again to get different playthroughs of DA2 in order to experience the whole thing, if those decisions were critically important to some story branch? Admittedly I'd do that, but it seems like it'd be straight up a turn off to new consumers.

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:09 .

[Ash Wind]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

Don't they already do that in Awakening... whether its Alistair essentially acting like he barely knows you after you defeat.... is it The Withered? at the Keep. Or Loghain showing up at the keep for a couple of lines?

That's part of my point, loading in your DA:O into DA:2 would have about as much effect as loading in a character into Awakening.

Maybe you'll see a newspaper hearalding that Ashwing Cousland has defeated the blight. Anyway, it seems any effects of loading in your DA:O save would have minimal and purely novelty outcomes. Maybe I am wrong, but I've played Awakening.

Perhaps. How much influence do you want your decisions to have had?
Perhaps in the next 10 years, if you preserved the Anvil, you'll have access to golems to help you fight darkspawn?
Perhaps exiled!drunk!Alistair could be on your team as a companion if you didn't make him king?

If not simple cameos, what kind of impact would you hope to see, is what I'm asking.

If it isn't importing my warden, then none really. My point was that the message earlier seemed to imply that you could import a DA:O save, but if its only to make a few trivialities, the resources could be better spent.

Now, if it was my Warden (and I know it won't be), then if I kept Alistair in the Grey Wardens, having him as a Recruiitable character. If I killed Wynn in Origins... then she's dead. Etc.

But would you want to see Alistair in DA2 if you killed him in Origins? At least importing your save should minimize any chances of having your "canon" screwed up.

They already did it with Wynn in Awakening. Though I never did it, I hear if you get Oghren at a high disapproval he'll challenege you to a fight and you can kill him. And both are forced into Awakening, like it or not. 

Hell, the saves I imported into Awakening had Oghren at a high approval and maxed out in the 2H skills. And in Awakeing, he still starts out at neutral and he isn't maxed out in the all of the old 2H skills. So they didn't import anything of his approval or skills. 

[Northern Sun]

Ash Wind wrote...

Swoo wrote...

1) We will be able to import our DA:O games into DA2.

You can import the DA:O 'World Information" into Awakening and that worked out swell. It's nice to hear they put the option in, but I'm not getting all excited over this until we hear that it's more than a nod and a handshake.

I agree with you on that one. To what end? Determine of Loghain is alive for a cameo and who is the ruler of Ferelden... which would probably just be a cameo also.

Only means anything if we're importing are Wardens, and as that's apparently not an option, Who really cares?

Maybe the Warden will get an ultra-cool cameo.
Scene: Hawke is badly injured after a fight with Flemeth and is lost and alone. A cloaked figure heals him and serves as a temporary companion, helping Hawke fight to Kirkwall's docks while raining death apon helpless bad-guys. As the figure gets onto a ship bound for Ferelden
Hawke: "Who are you?"
The figure removes their cloak to reveal the Warden in all their human/elvish/dwarven glory, who then gives a curt nod to Hawke before going below deck.
Another possibility in my mind is that the Warden could be a "behind-the-scenes" character who covertly sets up quests for Hawke, possibly leading to the situation above, and coud coincide with the disapearance in Awakening.

I'm probably just being way too hopeful that the Warden won't simply be the object of some random conversations, but I think that the above would be the next best thing to playing as the Warden. It establishes that they're alive and kicking, could serve to tie up a few loose ends(but certainly not the big Morrigan romance one), ensures that the Warden doesn't have to talk, and also reenforces the Warden as being a bad@ss.

Modifié par Northern Sun, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[phaonica]

Ash Wind wrote...

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Exactly. Something that was hugely important to your Warden, and that would mean something to your Warden, is reduced to cameo-level because Epic Hawke has no reason to care.

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

You better believe that if the Old God turned out to be something nasty, my Warden would come after it. Instead, Hawke could be battling darkspawns and OGB and who knows what, and as a player having to wonder WTF my Warden is doing during all this.

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

I agree. There is a difference between the game telling me that my previous game occured, and showing me that those decisions actually mattered. But again, if they mattered too much, you almost make this game *dependant* on the last game, which would turn off new consumers, especially the completionist consumers who did not like the first game, but could potentially be drawn into the second one.

Modifié par phaonica, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:23 .

[Brockololly]

Ash Wind wrote...

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

I completely agree- they're seemingly letting us import the choices of our Warden, yet not letting us be the Warden. Its like KOTOR2 all over again.

DA2 will inevitably be one big metagame, since we'll no doubt run into old companions and as the player we'll be all "Hey! Its Sten/Shale/Morrigan!" yet the former companions will only act like "Who the hell are you?" Just like in KOTOR2 when you finally meet back up with Bastila and Carth. And that was one of my worst/least favorite moments in all of my gaming history.

And is it me or does it seem like the whole timeline is going to make things really linear? Even more so than usual for a BioWare game. I'm wondering how they'll handle the passage of time- are we going to play a given period, end it then skip around? So we're just playing little vignettes loosely connected into the story of Hawke? So this whole DA2 game is what they're doing with the DA franchise in a microcosm? A bunch of separate stories loosely connected together?

Since it seems this doesn't skip too far ahead time wise, I really want to know why the hell we aren't playing as the Warden? Just because BioWare felt like bastardizing DA by injecting copious amounts of Mass Effect juice into the franchise? Who made these upper level design choices for DA2 and more importantly, why?

I still can't get over the feeling that they're mucking around for the sake of mucking around to please the Bro crowd...

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 juillet 2010 - 02:24 .

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

Since it seems this doesn't skip too far ahead time wise, I really want to know why the hell we aren't playing as the Warden? Just because BioWare felt like bastardizing DA by injecting copious amounts of Mass Effect juice into the franchise? Who made these upper level design choices for DA2 and more importantly, why?

A thousand times, yes.

The game is perfectly set up, timeline-wise to include not only our Warden, but any and/or all of the companions from Origins and Awakening. Admittedly I'd like to see new characters, too, and all these characters have voiced dialog and are crazy expensive. But, I'd really like to know why Hawke is *necessary* to the story in a way that my Warden isn't. I hope that it isn't such a big spoiler secret that we won't really know unless we play the game.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Brockololly wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

I completely agree- they're seemingly letting us import the choices of our Warden, yet not letting us be the Warden. Its like KOTOR2 all over again.

DA2 will inevitably be one big metagame, since we'll no doubt run into old companions and as the player we'll be all "Hey! Its Sten/Shale/Morrigan!" yet the former companions will only act like "Who the hell are you?" Just like in KOTOR2 when you finally meet back up with Bastila and Carth. And that was one of my worst/least favorite moments in all of my gaming history.

And is it me or does it seem like the whole timeline is going to make things really linear? Even more so than usual for a BioWare game. I'm wondering how they'll handle the passage of time- are we going to play a given period, end it then skip around? So we're just playing little vignettes loosely connected into the story of Hawke? So this whole DA2 game is what they're doing with the DA franchise in a microcosm? A bunch of separate stories loosely connected together?

Since it seems this doesn't skip too far ahead time wise, I really want to know why the hell we aren't playing as the Warden? Just because BioWare felt like bastardizing DA by injecting copious amounts of Mass Effect juice into the franchise? Who made these upper level design choices for DA2 and more importantly, why?

I still can't get over the feeling that they're mucking around for the sake of mucking around to please the Bro crowd...

Yes I agree interacting with them would be a huge buzz-kill. Seeing Shayle as dwarf is maybe the only scenerio I could come to terms with rebuilding a relationship with an old companion without just feeling "meh".

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...
So this whole DA2 game is what they're doing with the DA franchise in a microcosm? A bunch of separate stories loosely connected together?

Oh gosh, I hope not. I quit playing Fable because I felt like it was a bunch of meaningless, disjointed missions with a lot of arbitrary "morality" choices. I didn't play it for very long, though. Maybe it's not as bad as I remember.

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
So this whole DA2 game is what they're doing with the DA franchise in a microcosm? A bunch of separate stories loosely connected together?

Oh gosh, I hope not. I quit playing Fable because I felt like it was a bunch of meaningless, disjointed missions with a lot of arbitrary "morality" choices. I didn't play it for very long, though. Maybe it's not as bad as I remember.

For better or worse, the whole "rise to power" bit and the pasage of time seems like a carbon copy of the Fable games. And this does not please me. Not. One. Bit.

-----------------------------------
-----------------------------------

All right, my last post for the day on this DA2 Reveal Day +1. So what were the big things learned today?

- BioWare wants to turn Dragon Age into Mass Effect with Sword and Dragons.
- Hawke will be voiced and we can only guess his/her repsonses based on "emotions" from the dialogue wheel
- The first 2 screens were leaked and don't look overly impressive
- BioWare is actively marketing and catering to the Bro Nation because surely if they didn't buy DAO they'll gobble up a bastardized DA2, right?

So yeah, to say I have mixed feelings on DA2 at this point is an understatement. The GI article stuff seems interesting, but the voiced PC really kills it for me. I may enjoy the game ultimately, but with the voiced PC it makes it impossible for me to enjoy it as much as Origins or the BG games. Because in those games YOU were the epic hero saving the day or rising to power. Now we're a lame movie director instructing our high priced prima donna rent a hero "Hawke" what to do. This doesn't only kill my attachment to the PC, but in turn the companions as well. No longer are YOU engaging with the companions but you're just a proxy and a nosy onlooker looking in on Hawke's adventures and friendships. *sigh*

Maybe someone will get scans of GI for our perusal soon. Otherwise GI's site should have an update Monday the 12th.

So it goes....

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:20 .

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

I completely agree- they're seemingly letting us import the choices of our Warden, yet not letting us be the Warden. Its like KOTOR2 all over again.

DA2 will inevitably be one big metagame, since we'll no doubt run into old companions and as the player we'll be all "Hey! Its Sten/Shale/Morrigan!" yet the former companions will only act like "Who the hell are you?" Just like in KOTOR2 when you finally meet back up with Bastila and Carth. And that was one of my worst/least favorite moments in all of my gaming history.

And is it me or does it seem like the whole timeline is going to make things really linear? Even more so than usual for a BioWare game. I'm wondering how they'll handle the passage of time- are we going to play a given period, end it then skip around? So we're just playing little vignettes loosely connected into the story of Hawke? So this whole DA2 game is what they're doing with the DA franchise in a microcosm? A bunch of separate stories loosely connected together?

Since it seems this doesn't skip too far ahead time wise, I really want to know why the hell we aren't playing as the Warden? Just because BioWare felt like bastardizing DA by injecting copious amounts of Mass Effect juice into the franchise? Who made these upper level design choices for DA2 and more importantly, why?

I still can't get over the feeling that they're mucking around for the sake of mucking around to please the Bro crowd...

It's clear that the Warden was ditched simply for the sake of VO. Think about it, it makes sense. Bioware sees the success of ME2, and decides to apply it to DA and throws the first game aside to get rid of the 'red tape' that continuity would have provided.

It's really sad and kind of pathetic. I would've been upset that we weren't our Warden and just some new blank slate character. That however, I would have gotten over by now because I would have realised that it was going to be another chance for me to create all of these characters. The fact that the Warden is being ditched for a medival Shepard, that's just a kick in the balls like no other.

[Ash Wind]

phaonica wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Since it seems this doesn't skip too far ahead time wise, I really want to know why the hell we aren't playing as the Warden? Just because BioWare felt like bastardizing DA by injecting copious amounts of Mass Effect juice into the franchise? Who made these upper level design choices for DA2 and more importantly, why?

A thousand times, yes.

The game is perfectly set up, timeline-wise to include not only our Warden, but any and/or all of the companions from Origins and Awakening. Admittedly I'd like to see new characters, too, and all these characters have voiced dialog and are crazy expensive. But, I'd really like to know why Hawke is *necessary* to the story in a way that my Warden isn't. I hope that it isn't such a big spoiler secret that we won't really know unless we play the game.

I agree... its like trying to re-invent the wheel. They scored. They got a character people liked in a setting they liked. But who cares, we're going to show you how smart we are by throwing that all out and essentially starting from scratch, except for the name, because we think people are stupid and will buy anything titled Dragon Age. I don't really get it. Its like Lucas thinking Luke Skywalker wasn't appeaing to the uber fans and deciding Empire Strikes Back will feature Timmy Hawke, Jedi apprentice who must now battle the Empire.

I fear that this is an attempt  to get more 12 & 13 year olds to get mommy and daddy to pony up $50 for the latest uber game that will be forgotten 20 minutes after the next uber game comes out.

Hate to put it that way, but as of April, DA;O sold 3.2 million copies... apparently that wasn't enough.

[Brockololly]

GardenSnake wrote...

It's clear that the Warden was ditched simply for the sake of VO. Think about it, it makes sense. Bioware sees the success of ME2, and decides to apply it to DA and throws the first game aside to get rid of the 'red tape' that continuity would have provided.

Yeah, I just want an explanation why they went with a voiced PC in DA2 when they adamently defended the silent PC angle for Origins. And more importantly, is this the death of the silent protagonist in BioWare games? Seems to me it is. And that sucks for many many reasons. If you want to make DA2 more cinematic BioWare just make a damn movie- not every game has to be "cinematic" like Mass Effect. Leave RPGs as RPGs and not damn interactive cutscenes.

And it just seems to me that DA2 is almost like a franchise reboot- they're doing ditching the Origins dialogue system, ditching the Origins, ditching the combat, ditching the Warden and his/her companions, ditching the visual style and all for what? For the sake of being new and shiny enough to attract the ADHD addled minds of 11 year olds who think a "mature" game consists of ****** and blood or the frat boy Bros who are too busy playing Madden and crushing beer cans on their head while screaming "SPARTA!!!" to even know what  Dragon Age is in the 1st place? WTF BioWare? Just keep ignoring your core group of fans....

Its funny that BIoWare has of late seemingly been bashing JRPGs and yet the seeming linearity of DA2 would fit right in with a JRPG...hmmm

GardenSnake wrote...
It's really sad and kind of pathetic. I would've been upset that we weren't our Warden and just some new blank slate character. That however, I would have gotten over by now because I would have realised that it was going to be another chance for me to create all of these characters. The fact that the Warden is being ditched for a medival Shepard, that's just a kick in the balls like no other.

Sad but true, man. I'll say it again for emphasis: doing the dialogue wheel with only emotions and blurbs to pick from is NOT role playing. BioWare is single handedly killing the western RPG by making DA2 into a homogeneized ME wannabe. Hyperbole, you bet. But its not any worse than claiming Hawke is the most important person and the most important story EVAR.

With that, I'm out:bandit:

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 juillet 2010 - 03:39 .

[Ash Wind]

GardenSnake wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

I completely agree- they're seemingly letting us import the choices of our Warden, yet not letting us be the Warden. Its like KOTOR2 all over again.

DA2 will inevitably be one big metagame, since we'll no doubt run into old companions and as the player we'll be all "Hey! Its Sten/Shale/Morrigan!" yet the former companions will only act like "Who the hell are you?" Just like in KOTOR2 when you finally meet back up with Bastila and Carth. And that was one of my worst/least favorite moments in all of my gaming history.

And is it me or does it seem like the whole timeline is going to make things really linear? Even more so than usual for a BioWare game. I'm wondering how they'll handle the passage of time- are we going to play a given period, end it then skip around? So we're just playing little vignettes loosely connected into the story of Hawke? So this whole DA2 game is what they're doing with the DA franchise in a microcosm? A bunch of separate stories loosely connected together?

Since it seems this doesn't skip too far ahead time wise, I really want to know why the hell we aren't playing as the Warden? Just because BioWare felt like bastardizing DA by injecting copious amounts of Mass Effect juice into the franchise? Who made these upper level design choices for DA2 and more importantly, why?

I still can't get over the feeling that they're mucking around for the sake of mucking around to please the Bro crowd...

It's clear that the Warden was ditched simply for the sake of VO. Think about it, it makes sense. Bioware sees the success of ME2, and decides to apply it to DA and throws the first game aside to get rid of the 'red tape' that continuity would have provided.

It's really sad and kind of pathetic. I would've been upset that we weren't our Warden and just some new blank slate character. That however, I would have gotten over by now because I would have realised that it was going to be another chance for me to create all of these characters. The fact that the Warden is being ditched for a medival Shepard, that's just a kick in the balls like no other.

Quite possibly. And I don't get that. The Witcher was completely voiced, but I don't think that added anything. Felt like I was impersonating a character, rather than role-playing. I liked the Witcher. But I liked DA:O 5 times more.

A voice is only going to intrude on the character I have in my mind. And isn't going to add anything.

I can read. I don't need some prefab, I got a macho voice and sound cool, just like my ****** name Hawke voice mucking up my experience.

[Giggles_Manically]

To point out:

I liked playing my mage since I had a voice that I heard instead of an actor.



I dont like playing shep since Meer comes of nasily, and hale comes off breathless in many places.





Tis making a sad panda outa me.

[Ash Wind]

phaonica wrote...

Ash Wind wrote...

I agree. Hearing something nice, like how the lives of the castless have improved ten-fold since Bhelen came to power would be cool... if your the person who put him into power. It looses a lot, IMO, hearing it as a disinterested 3rd part... ie Timmy Hawke. What's the satisfaction in that?

Exactly. Something that was hugely important to your Warden, and that would mean something to your Warden, is reduced to cameo-level because Epic Hawke has no reason to care.

Lol indeed. So far, I have to say, I hate everything about this character, from the stupid name to the look to the BS mega-hype 'the most important character in the DA World.

phaonica wrote...

Conversely, if the Old God turns out to be a malevolet plot, you'd have more invested in stopping it as the person responsible for it happening, than as a new character who has to clean up someone elses mess.

You better believe that if the Old God turned out to be something nasty, my Warden would come after it. Instead, Hawke could be battling darkspawns and OGB and who knows what, and as a player having to wonder WTF my Warden is doing during all this.

Me too. When speaking to Wynn at the end of Origins, you can ask her 'how long the love will last?' She replies until you do something wrong. I thought this was a perfect precursor to at least some aspect of the DR going bad and the Hero of Ferelden going from hero to zero and needing to redeem him or herself. 

instead, we get lame timmy hawke, who we are told is the most important person in the DA world, even though he hasn't done jack s**t and all our Wardens have done is stopped a blight. 

phaonica wrote...

At least you would feel invested in the news if they were your triumphs or pitfalls. I guess if you import it, you might feel a connection to it. But more likely, it seems like weak marketing tool that they are making a 'fake' connection to those who loved DA:O by allowing you to import your game, as if your previous choices will have an impact and allow you to feel invested in this new character.

I agree. There is a difference between the game telling me that my previous game occured, and showing me that those decisions actually mattered. But again, if they mattered too much, you almost make this game *dependant* on the last game, which would turn off new consumers, especially the completionist consumers who did not like the first game, but could potentially be drawn into the second one.

I certainly would perfer no mention of my Warden character. And I would despise it if Timmy Hawke gets to have further interaction with Morrigan while my Warden meanders through life pointless until its time for The Calling.

I just don't get the direction they are taking this. There must be a method to their madness,but so far, I haven't seen it.

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

To point out:
I liked playing my mage since I had a voice that I heard instead of an actor.

I dont like playing shep since Meer comes of nasily, and hale comes off breathless in many places.


Tis making a sad panda outa me.

Yeah I hear that, my characters aren't me but they feel like my own. A bit like I'm an author in a somewhat pre-fab story, maybe you have to be a bit of a writer to understand where I'm coming from with that.

As for Shepard, it's never going to win everyone over all the time and the VA's aren't going to knock it out of the park every time. Personally I just don't like Meer in Mass Effect I don't know why I just don't, he was great as Tug in Leliana's Song but as Shepard I just can't get into it. I like Hale better but that's personal preference and lots of people don't like Hale's delivery of renegade lines. Going full VOed in the sequel means that this kind of stuff is going to come up without fail, people will fight and argue about which VO set is better and I just don't think it was worth it at the end of the day.