16183 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

I didn't romance Morrigan, so I can't know how your Wardens would handle the situation. But I mean, in DA2 if Morrigan goes to the Free Marches and drops the OGB off there (for whatever reason, assuming that you trust her judgment), and then there is some kind of gossip that someone who looks like Morrigan was seen heading back to Ferelden... and then the game is about the OGB and Hawke (in whatever capacity) , would that be enough? Or would there need to be more?

Edit: If she's heading back to Ferelden, you can decide for yourself if you are reunited, or if she convinces you to ignore the OGB situation (whether good or bad), or whatever.

Modifié par phaonica, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:30 .

[Master Shiori]

phaonica wrote...

I didn't romance Morrigan, so I can't know how your Wardens would handle the situation. But I mean, in DA2 if Morrigan goes to the Free Marches and drops the OGB off there (for whatever reason, assuming that you trust her judgment), and then there is some kind of gossip that someone who looks like Morrigan was seen heading back to Ferelden... and then the game is about the OGB and Hawke (in whatever capacity) , would that be enough? Or would there need to be more?

Edit: If she's heading back to Ferelden, you can decide for yourself if you are reunited, or if she convinces you to ignore the OGB situation (whether good or bad), or whatever.

It would work if the epilogue goes like this: "The dark haired sorceress disappeared after "insert random epic story for DA2". Rumours say she went to Ferelden to be reunited with her former lover, the Warden and that together they vanished into the unknown."

So yes, it could work but would need to at least hint that the 2 of them are togather again.


Now, after a good nights sleep I'll try and analyze Gaider's post a bit more:


1) Warden's story. Is it over?

We still don't have a definite answer to this question. All David said is that he could come up with more stories for the Warden but can also come up with new ones that aren't about him. He says Thedas is what DA is all about, but that is self evident and doesn't require a new protagonist for every game. You could just as easily have DA3 revolve around the Warden as main character and it would still be about Thedas as a setting.
Important thing to note here is that he's refuses to give a straight answer. If something is done you have no reason to keep people in the dark. You can flat out say "it's over" and not worry about ruining some future plot. The fact that we can't get a clear answer concerning Morrigan and the Warden means something may still be planned.
At this point we shouldn't be expecting a reunion, but there is still hope something might come of it.


2) Morrigan and DR

He pretty much confirmed that it is a lose plot end that will get adressed. We don't know when this will happen or if the Warden will be involved. The way he delivered his answer means we could easily deal with OGB and Morrigan as a new pc. How this is going to play out is something only time will tell.


3) Hawke and the whole "each game is a new story about something else"

Now, I know David would love nothing more then for us to accept Hawke as our own, much as we did the Warden.
However, as Adeante nicely pointed out several times, this simply won't be possible. Hawke may turn out to be an excellent character in his own right, but he's never going to be completely "ours". Much like Commander Shepard, he is already defined in many ways and as such is Bioware's creation that we just happen to borrow for 1 game. Warden, on the other hand, was completely defined by us, the players. You could create a dozen Couslands or Amell's and each of them would be unique. I have no doubt I'll enjoy playing with Hawke just as I did with Shepard, but I'll never accept him as my own like I did the Warden.

As for the other part of this title, David confirmed that Hawke will be the star of DA2 and, like the Warden, won't be the protagonist in DA3. This means that once again our character and his story won't go beyond a single game. Oh, I have no doubt we'll see how our choices in DA2 affected the world in the next game, but Hawke himself won't be there to witness it or deal with the fallout of his decisions. This means you're not going to have player immerse themselves into your characters like they did in Origins, because these will be gone for good once the story is finished. Whether or not it's a good thing depends on how the ending is handled. If all the plot threads are properly closed and questions answered then you have no worries. Your standalone story if doen and you're free to move on since nobody will expect something more. But, if you go down the Awakening route and leave us with plot threads danglling, then you're adding fuel to the fire. Leave people without closure and you might get away with it once, but do it twice and nobody will bother with your stories again. What good is a great tale if it never ends properly?


4) Where do we, as Morrigan fans, stad in all this?

Pretty much where we've been before. We have no answers.

We know that Morrigan will come back at some point. What we don't know is when or how.

We also know they refused to tell us if the Warden's story is done or if he'll ever be reunited with Morrigan. David did tell Brock that we shouldn't close that chapter just yet. While it's no guarantee of seeing the Warden again, it does mean they haven't written that possibility off just yet. Maybe something will come of it or maybe not, but we won't know for sure at this point.

Just keep in mind that as frustrating as a lack of clear answer may seem, the fact they refuse to give us one means things most likely aren't done and over with.

The question is will we like how it all ultimately turns out?

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 juillet 2010 - 09:00 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Am I the only one who will see us never reuniting with Morrigan as bittersweet and not only bitter?

Of course, Iwould love nothing mroe than for the Warden to reunite with Morrigan but that somehow...cheapens the beauty of the romance in a way. I guess what I am trying to say is, I will not be terribly dissapointed if the Warden never meets Morrigan again. I would be sad and that's the whole point.

What I think we should focus on is the OGB, the legacy of the love between Morrigan and the Warden. And I sincerily hope that Hawke won't start loving the OGB, but that's likely to happen.

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

4) Where do we, as Morrigan fans, stad in all this?

[KnightofPhoenix]

And to think some people actually enjoy that.

[Master Shiori]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And to think some people actually enjoy that.

I guess you can't account for taste.

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

4) Where do we, as Morrigan fans, stad in all this?

Honestly Blademaster, that would depend on what you consider to be a kick in the balls: Not having a reunion between Warden and Morri or never seeing Morrigan again?

For me it's the later.

[ximena]

Okay. Something to make those who follow DW happy. New page up. 2-06

Master Shiori wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

4) Where do we, as Morrigan fans, stad in all this?

Honestly Blademaster, that would depend on what you consider to be a kick in the balls: Not having a reunion between Warden and Morri or never seeing Morrigan again?

For me it's the later.

I agree. It would only be a huge plus if we see her with The Warden again.

Modifié par ximena, 11 juillet 2010 - 10:51 .

[Master Shiori]

ximena wrote...

Okay. Something to make those who follow DW happy. New page up. 2-06

 

Yes!! New page!!

*runs off to read*

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...
Honestly Blademaster, that would depend on what you consider to be a kick in the balls: Not having a reunion between Warden and Morri or never seeing Morrigan again?

I'll tell you why it's a kick in the balls. It's my POV of course, you may disagree if you will.

When they were writing the characters they decided that Morrigan should play a big part in DA games. The Warden was a character they were going to use for the first game only. So, in the end of DAO they had to do something to progress the story of Morrigan and at the same time conclude the story of the Warden so they can ditch him. They failed to conclude his story, but they are ditching him as planned.

That was basically the purpose of the DR. Your Warden is forced out of character and Morrigan is an evasive expert that is gonna dump you no matter what. You can't get a definite answer on why she is leaving you or why the DR is so damn important that she has to get as far away from everyone. All those enigmatic quotes such as "This is how it must be", "it would not be wise to follow" and "destiny demands it" are just thereto frustrate you.

I really doubt if there are answers behind all those questions we got during the DR. After all, the purpose is to just get the Warden out of Morrigan's way remember? This is the answer behind the "do not follow".

So, to conclude, it's not really a kick in the balls because we won't see Morrigan's story(I'm pretty sure we will see it). The romance is a kick in the balls because instead of playing this epic hero, you are playing a disposable chump whose only purpose is to move the story of Morrigan forward.

Maybe the Wardens who romanced her should get their names written into her codex entry. A foootnote into the Morrigan Age, how does that sound?

Modifié par blademaster7, 11 juillet 2010 - 11:10 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'll tell you why it's a kick in the balls. It's my POV of course, you may disagree if you will.

Fair enough. Go ahead.

blademaster7 wrote...

When they were writing the characters they decided that Morrigan should play a big part in DA games. The Warden was a character they were going to use for the first game only. So, in the end of DAO they had to do something to progress the story of Morrigan and at the same time conclude the story of the Warden so they can ditch him. They failed to conclude his story, but they are ditching him as planned.

I agree on Morrigan playing a big part, or at least on her story going beyond Origins itself.

However, the part where Warden is disposable may or may not be true at this point. David himself refused to confirm that the Warden's story is over with Awakening. Instead he gave us the "can't comment on future projects" line. While this may not mean we're guaranteed to see the Warden again, it does mean the whole idea isn't being written off just yet. According to him, Thedas is the focus of Dragon Age itself, but Thedas is the world made up of many stories involving different characters. While this doesn't mean you'll see the same protagonist in every game, neither does it mean you'll only see him once. If they were truly ditching him forever, wouldn't that have been easier by having him walk off to his calling by the end of Awakening? That way nobody could argue there were stories left to be told and it would have made complete sense storywise. To me it looks more like they're keeping him around for possible future use.

blademaster7 wrote...
That was basically the purpose of the DR. Your Warden is forced out of character and Morrigan is an evasive expert that is gonna dump you no matter what. You can't get a definite answer on why she is leaving you or why the DR is so damn important that she has to get as far away from everyone. All those enigmatic quotes such as "This is how it must be", "it would not be wise to follow" and "destiny demands it" are just thereto frustrate you.

I really doubt if there are answers behind all those questions we got during the DR. After all, the purpose is to just get the Warden out of Morrigan's way remember? This is the answer behind the "do not follow".

I think you're focusing too much on the Warden himself here and too little on Morrigan and the OGB.

DR, for all purposes, did serve to save your Warden's life. But it's main purpose was to start Morrigan's tale. As frustrating as it was to not get the answers you seek, those answers may not be intended for your Warden but rather for you as the player.
I can easily see Morrigan coming back in the future where we learn what the significance of DR was and what her ultimate goal is. Gaider did say those answers might not play out the way we expect them to. This could mean that the Warden's part in Morrigan's story is over, but doesn't mean her love for him is as well. Morrigan might face her destiny alone without your character to help her, but once it's over she could just as easily seek you out again to be reunited. I might be overly optimistic here but the only true slap in the face is if Morrigan suddenly forgot all about your Warden and romanced a new character.
Gaider did tell Brock that we shouldn't write the whole MorriganxWarden thing off just yet. I propose we wait and see if anything will come of it in the end.

blademaster7 wrote...
Maybe the Wardens who romanced her should get their names written into her codex entry. A foootnote into the Morrigan Age, how does that sound?

That would depend on what the footnote says. Keep in mind this wouldn't be the first time in gaming history where a companion character turns out to be more important in the grand scheme of things then our own pc. Our reunion may happen on screen or in a .ppt slide. Right now I'll be truly happy if it does happen at all, rather then picky about how it'll come to pass.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 juillet 2010 - 12:41 .

[Brockololly]

Trying to look for good things about DA2, per Laidlaw, there won't be stupid Fable like devil horns or halos!

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So if we constantly choose angry responses, our Hawke will grow devil horns and look all Sith-like or if we're always a nice affable chap we get a nice aura with a glowing halo?[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]

I'm going on the record here on those two: No, and......no. With a bonus "hell-no" for the halo. I mean, when the most powerful religion in the world's central tenet is "we pissed the creator off so much that he no longer cares about us, but if we're all really good, maybe he'll pay attention again, maybe, but probably not," there's not a lot of room for halos.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 juillet 2010 - 01:30 .

[Terra_Ex]

Perhaps Molyneux has a patent on the in-game halo, not to worry, we've always got the terminator look to fall back on On the subject of DA2, I'm more interested in the potential game length of what promises to be both a "cinematic" and "epic" experience. ME2 certainly was cinematic, but it was also 25hrs~ as opposed to DA's 80~. They're gonna have to show some skill to make the game both "cinematic" and maintan the same scale of the original, but as we've discussed before, I suspect game time will drop significantly in this outing.

[bl00dsh0t]

Awesome Page ximena At least our wardens get to experience a bit of continuity through eldric ^^



Well I think they said on the gameinformer site that we get some more info tomorrow, but Im guessing it wont go any further than that article in the magazine. Gotta find that article damnit, I don't think that I can even get the gameinformer in switzerland unless i track down some shop that might have it for redicolous import cost...sigh...



Either way I think we can start properly smashing the game once we see the trailer in august, lets just hope we get to see some gameplay and not just another sacred ashes trailer that has rather little to do with the actual game ;D Until now it just feels that the only real whining point for me is no warden, the rest really depends on how the implementation turns out.



Meh I just seem to not give as much of a damn anymore but keep on reading posts on the forum when Im supposed to be studying ;D Gotta cut the crap ^^

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...

Trying to look for good things about DA2, per Laidlaw, there won't be stupid Fable like devil horns or halos!

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So if we constantly choose angry responses, our Hawke will grow devil horns and look all Sith-like or if we're always a nice affable chap we get a nice aura with a glowing halo?../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

I'm going on the record here on those two: No, and......no. With a bonus "hell-no" for the halo. I mean, when the most powerful religion in the world's central tenet is "we pissed the creator off so much that he no longer cares about us, but if we're all really good, maybe he'll pay attention again, maybe, but probably not," there's not a lot of room for halos.

You must have been really worried Brock, if you asked those questions lol

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...
 On the subject of DA2, I'm more interested in the potential game length of what promises to be both a "cinematic" and "epic" experience. ME2 certainly was cinematic, but it was also 25hrs~ as opposed to DA's 80~. They're gonna have to show some skill to make the game both "cinematic" and maintan the same scale of the original, but as we've discussed before, I suspect game time will drop significantly in this outing.

This is one of my many concerns too. My thinking going forward with DA2, even before they announced all the ME style changes was that it would end up being shorter regardless. Outside of Bethesda sandbox games you rarely see single player games go more than 30 hours tops now. Origins was definitely a throwback with its length but I think those days are done. Its sad when you read people complaining on forums and such about games like ME2 being too long or how DAO was too long....but then of course those same people moan about how DLC is cut content from the game. I just think in this age of DLC, there isn't much incentive for developers to make really long games.  Its all about monetizing every hour spent playing the game and if you can have your game tell its story in  40 hours, why bother adding extra side quests or extras to bump it up to 80 hours when those side quests can be monetized as DLC?

Especially with a voiced PC now, that'll eat up a significant chunk of the budget so not only will be end up with either less companion dialogue or less in depth dialogue, its a safe bet the game will be probably about 40 hours tops. I don't know where the quote is, but I distinctly remember someone on the old forums complaining about the lack of a voiced PC in Origins. I don't recall which dev answered, but the response was that if they went with a voiced PC they would have had to cut all other dialogue by about half. Its just very disheartening to go through some of the old comments and interviews from BioWare people defending the silent PC system in Origins given what we know now.

And given how evasive the devs were when asked how long Awakening was, I do not expect them to give a straight answer on how long DA2 will be. If they end up playing coy when asked about DA2's length, its pretty clear it will be shorter- they loved telling everyone how long of a game Origins was.

bl00dsh0t wrote...
Well I think they said on the gameinformer site that we get some more
info tomorrow, but Im guessing it wont go any further than that article
in the magazine. Gotta find that article damnit, I don't think that I
can even get the gameinformer in switzerland unless i track down some
shop that might have it for redicolous import cost...sigh...

Yeah, some people on the forum supposedly have it... but no one likes sharing I suppose...

bl00dsh0t wrote...
Either
way I think we can start properly smashing the game once we see the
trailer in august, lets just hope we get to see some gameplay and not
just another sacred ashes trailer that has rather little to do with the
actual game ;D Until now it just feels that the only real whining point
for me is no warden, the rest really depends on how the implementation
turns out.

Sadly, I'm fairly confident the "Debut Trailer" in August will be some Blur CGI trailer like Sacred Ashes. And normally I'd be ecstatic for that as they're always fun to watch but given all of the uncertainty and seemingly drastic changes they've made to DA2, I just want some gameplay videos, STAT. Its a BioWare game so I'm reasonably sure the story will be fine but the new dialogue system, the combat, the new graphics and so on are all more important to me than a little trailer aimed at hyping me up for DA2.

If BioWare really wants to hype me up for DA2 and get me on board, then finish the story for the Warden and Morrigan, dammit.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You must have been really worried Brock, if you asked those questions lol

Well, hey, if they're seemingly taking influence from Mass Effect, they already gave Shepard the goofy terminator look when he goes renegade- which is really, really stupid in my book. "Oh if you are mean, your scars won't heal!" Riiiiiight.

[KnightofPhoenix]

To be fair to devs, I remember them saying that Awakening was 15 hours and that turned out to be almost exactly true for my three playthroughs (one in fact was about 17 hrs).

But yes, with the presence of a voiced PC, I do not expect as much character interaction as Origins, because I too remember what the devs used to say when they defended the silent PC. Nor do I expect DA2 to be as long, but if it does reach 40-50 hours, then it's great. DA2 is a third person narrative about a specific story, and making it long just for the sake of it might become annoying. Brevity is the soul of wit. Providedof course that brevity and wit is worth the money.

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

Well, hey, if they're seemingly taking influence from Mass Effect, they already gave Shepard the goofy terminator look when he goes renegade- which is really, really stupid in my book. "Oh if you are mean, your scars won't heal!" Riiiiiight.

Hey the scars not healing makes sense because negative emotions affect machines, I know when I'm angry the lights on my desktop go from blue to red.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

To be fair to devs, I remember
them saying that Awakening was 15 hours and that turned out to be
almost exactly true for my three playthroughs (one in fact was about 17
hrs).
But yes, with the presence of a voiced PC, I do not expect as
much character interaction as Origins, because I too remember what the
devs used to say when they defended the silent PC. Nor do I expect DA2
to be as long, but if it does reach 40-50 hours, then it's great. DA2
is a third person narrative about a specific story, and making it long
just for the sake of it might become annoying. Brevity is the soul of
wit. Providedof course that brevity and wit is worth the money.

I come in again with the technical aspect to shoot down hope. It will be shorter, I can assure you of that since Hawke's dialogue is going to eat up a ton of space on the disk, next to textures audio takes up the majority of the data in a game. I'd be surprised if it was half as long and companions had around half the dialogue they did in Origins. The decision to make Hawke fully voiced means that there will be content reductions across the board.

[MKDAWUSS]

Master Shiori wrote...


I think you're focusing too much on the Warden himself here and too little on Morrigan and the OGB.

DR, for all purposes, did serve to save your Warden's life. But it's main purpose was to start Morrigan's tale. As frustrating as it was to not get the answers you seek, those answers may not be intended for your Warden but rather for you as the player.
I can easily see Morrigan coming back in the future where we learn what the significance of DR was and what her ultimate goal is. Gaider did say those answers might not play out the way we expect them to. This could mean that the Warden's part in Morrigan's story is over, but doesn't mean her love for him is as well. Morrigan might face her destiny alone without your character to help her, but once it's over she could just as easily seek you out again to be reunited. I might be overly optimistic here but the only true slap in the face is if Morrigan suddenly forgot all about your Warden and romanced a new character.
Gaider did tell Brock that we shouldn't write the whole MorriganxWarden thing off just yet. I propose we wait and see if anything will come of it in the end.

Well, the MorriganxWarden romance might be dead, but if it is, I don't think Morrigan would get into another relationship again. That might be a tough one to take, but it's one I'd accept.

blademaster7 wrote...
Maybe the Wardens who romanced her should get their names written into her codex entry. A foootnote into the Morrigan Age, how does that sound?

That would depend on what the footnote says. Keep in mind this wouldn't be the first time in gaming history where a companion character turns out to be more important in the grand scheme of things then our own pc. Our reunion may happen on screen or in a .ppt slide. Right now I'll be truly happy if it does happen at all, rather then picky about how it'll come to pass.

I think many of us are just hoping we don't get shafted, considering the impact that relationship had. Not just regarding Morrigan, but possibly the OGB as well.

[Brockololly]

adneate wrote...

I come in again with the technical aspect to shoot down hope. It will be shorter, I can assure you of that since Hawke's dialogue is going to eat up a ton of space on the disk, next to textures audio takes up the majority of the data in a game. I'd be surprised if it was half as long and companions had around half the dialogue they did in Origins. The decision to make Hawke fully voiced means that there will be content reductions across the board.

Right- you figure if Mass Effect 2 had to ship on 2 discs, if DA2 is anywhere near as long it will have to ship on 2 discs as well. If its anywhere near as long as DAO, it would likely be more than 2 discs to cram all the content in- and that just won't happen.

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

adneate wrote...

I come in again with the technical aspect to shoot down hope. It will be shorter, I can assure you of that since Hawke's dialogue is going to eat up a ton of space on the disk, next to textures audio takes up the majority of the data in a game. I'd be surprised if it was half as long and companions had around half the dialogue they did in Origins. The decision to make Hawke fully voiced means that there will be content reductions across the board.

Right- you figure if Mass Effect 2 had to ship on 2 discs, if DA2 is anywhere near as long it will have to ship on 2 discs as well. If its anywhere near as long as DAO, it would likely be more than 2 discs to cram all the content in- and that just won't happen.

I've owned several games that were 4 discs... Besides, all the cool kids buy and download 'em online anyway

[Brockololly]

MKDAWUSS wrote..

I've owned several games that were 4 discs... Besides, all the cool kids buy and download 'em online anyway

Maybe they're just going retro like  how BG2 was on a boatload of discs?


Found these on the DA2 forum where people are speculating Morrigan is Flemeth, since Flemeth is actually just a title of sorts thats passed down- idea being the Flemeth tells us names are just pretty things... (here is the thread ). Kind of funny pictures...

[adneate]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

I've owned several games that were 4 discs... Besides, all the cool kids buy and download 'em online anyway

I download all my games off steam so I know what you mean. However physical media is still how an overwhelming majority of people get their games. In general there seems to be a two DVD limit for this generation and I can't think of anyone who has surpassed it on a console.

Once again consoles hold everyone back. :happy:

[Master Shiori]

I guess we'll have to wait and see.



I agree that DA2 will be shorter than DA:O; but won't get into speculation baout how much exactly.



All I'm going to say is that I'd gladly accept less side quests in exchange for keeping the amount of dialogue more or less the same as it was in Origins.

As for having more than 3 discs, why not? I see no rule that says that wouldn't be acceptable unless it's too big a strain on the budget.