16183 réponses à ce sujet

[phaonica]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Awakening mention that one of the Awakened Darkspawn was still out and about? I wonder if he was up in the Free Marches causing all kinds of ruckus.

I hope not! I wanted him to be an LI

Not really. I did want him on my team, though.

Epically (or is that Epicly?

Haha, I was fighting this word a few minutes ago and decided not to use it. lol. oh, i should probably go to bed, i'm being really stupid now.

Bro.

Modifié par phaonica, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:29 .

[phaonica]

adneate wrote...

phaonica wrote...

And I guess the sea isn't *that* big. Maybe you can see the land on the other side. Not like... oh yeah, go.. escape into the ocean... brilliant.

If there is one thing you can say about the Darkspawn, when they get an idea in their head they won't stop till they carry it out. Thousands may die to get across the waking sea on corpse rafts rowed with swords but hundreds survive to be killed later.

This would make a glorious painting, a la "Washington's crossing of the Delaware River".

[KnightofPhoenix]

Goodnight Phoanica sis.

Does the bro species call their females sis?

[Swoo]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Does the bro species call their females sis?

I'd wager it's a four letter word that does begin with 'B'.

[phaonica]

I don't even know what the female equivalent of a Bro would be. I think we don't exist.

[phaonica]

'Nite everybody.

[Brockololly]

So whats the deal with the new art style? Its all about negative space and angular shapes apparently?

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...

So whats the deal with the new art style? Its all about negative space and angular shapes apparently?

Battle Chasers with less steroids.

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So whats the deal with the new art style? Its all about negative space and angular shapes apparently?

Battle Chasers with less steroids.

Didn't you say there were more screens at Eurogamer or something? My sleuthing skills have failed me...

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 juillet 2010 - 07:54 .

[blademaster7]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I was bored and started re-reading things and siezed on #3 on "five points about Hawke.
"Hawke didn't just survive the blight...he escaped it.
As the Grey Warden from Dragon Age: Origins was fighting darkspawn, Hawke was living in Lothering. Fans will remember that the small village was raided and destroyed (an event that occurred off-screen in Origins), and Hawke was one of the survivors. However, rather than stay and fight the darkspawn menace, Hawke flees Ferelden and heads north."

So this is the early marketing strategy to sell the new, improved and 'amped up' Dragon Age?  Dragon Age's newest and most important man in the universe is a survivor.  Not a paltry hero who single handedly ended a Blight; united dwarves, elves and men to do so; crowned a dwarven king; avenged Cailan's death and raised his half-brother to the throne of Ferelden; and discovered Andraste's Ashes, but a survivor.  Well that's not technically accurate.  He survived by tucking his tail and running from the Blight.

While my guy was ending the Blight, Hero Hawke ran home and survived it.
Doesn't matter, Hawke is just awesome, dude.

Haha...


Let's just analyze this Hawke character and DA2:

-He's a refugee from Lothering that escaped the blight. Does that mean he's a Fererldan? Hm... I remember a Fereldan during the blight.... but he didn't escape it. He ended it. Not impressed by Hawke so far.

-There are still darkspawn in the game. What the hell does Hawke has to do with them? Where's the DS expert? Oh, wait... now I get it. Darkspawn can talk now so we need someone to talk back.

-Flemeth returns. Remember that crazy witch. She has bad blood with the Warden. She also had a plan to use him so she can bring an old god to the world. It's VERY personal. But no, you have to meet her with a stranger.

-And then... there is Morrigan.... no explanation needed. Hawke doesn't know her....


So, yeah. The Warden got ditched for this Hawke guy because they wanted a voiced character...
It could have been worse though. They could make the Warden voiced for example...

[Terra_Ex]

You've picked out some classics there Brock,

Brockololly wrote...
"'We do know that, in Mass Effect, most people do not skip the dialogue. They actually sit through it and experience it as a whole,' Laidlaw says. 'It tells us that people are experiencing it in a more cinematic way, in that cse. Whereas the Origins style is a little more choppy, where you read and listen and read and listen.'"

Is this a joke response or something... you HAVE to sit through the dialogue in ME purely because the dialogue wheel only gives you a vague idea of what Sheperd is gonna say (and the resultant fallout of said choice) or did the resident game mechanic guru over at Bioware miss that little caveat. Secondly, maybe actual genuine rpg fans (BW's supposed target demograph) expect to encounter a lot of text within a fantasy rpg and thus have no qualms with reading through it.

Brockololly wrote...
Ray Muzyka: We learned the hard way in Dragon Age: Origins how hard it is to work initially on the PC and then convert the game back to console. In the case of Dragon Age II we're  doing all versions simultaneously (PC, 360, and PS3) but we're  definitely ensuring the features we put in work well on console as well  as PC, because it's typicallly much easier to convert back to PC. The PC has a wider range of potential control options and can thus
accommodate different designs easier in many cases than consoles can. Both consoles and PC are important to us, and we have great fan communities we plan to support in the future on all of these platforms."

Well, the writing is on the wall with this one, if there was ever a reason for me to bunker down with the PC-only elites, this'd be it.

Brockololly wrote...
A common problem in the games business, and one key thing that we try and avoid, is being reactive and not seriously considering the implications of even the smallest feature changes in our games.

So yeah, bravo. For the sequel to DAO how about we completely abandon the silent PC, throw in  a slightly tweaked ME dialogue wheel, redo the combat, totally change the visual style and lets call it a direct sequel! No major changes there, right?
Nothing knee jerk about ripping the originality, the heart and soul out of DA and shoving Mass Effect guts back in, no?

Yeah, it's always effective when you do these interviews and PR for the game if the argument you're presenting isn't directly contradicted by the changes you implement.

Brockololly wrote...
We're always trying to make our games more accessible and easier to play while not removing any of the depth and detail that players value. essentially, you don't want to fix something that isn't broken, so it's a careful balancing act.

Hey, another thinly veiled "lets casualise DA" statement married with a blatant lie.

Brockololly wrote...
*sigh* What the hell happened to you BioWare?

EA happened, and send their regards.

Brockololly wrote...
And just persuing other forums and such, the whole ME-ificiation of Dragon Age isn't some minor issue only being
discussed here. People aren't stupid and seem to have caught on to the changes being shoved into DA2.

And then there is this article from 2009 before Origins was released with Zeschuk and Muzyka talking about why its important DA have a different silent PC than ME...*facepalm*
Some great excerpts:

Muzyka and Zeschuk say the difference in the two games' dialogue systems is one of perspective, literally. After fielding questions about Dragon Age's approach at GDC 2009 in San Francisco earlier this year, the two  came to the conclusion that the reason Mass Effect's dialogue system  doesn't work well with Dragon Age (they tried it) is because the latter is first-person and the former is third-person. Change perspectives, and the entire game changes with it.


In Mass Effect, a third-person game, you take a character and mold them into a new person,directing the character rather than fully inhabiting her or him. As you play, you're able to watch that directed person act  in the game, speaking with the voice you have helped shape. But in  Dragon Age, you don't watch the conversation because you are the conversation.
After the success of Mass Effect, Muzyka and Zeschuk say  they thought about applying the dialogue system to all their games but soon realized that different experiences call for different approaches.

"We talked about this for months, and we did all kinds of analysis," says Zeschuk. "Really we see it as a step sideways. It's actually about  presenting different flavors of games."



"It's that little bit of surprise because you just don't feel like you're in complete control of it, whereas in Dragon Age, you are that  character. That is you. You're doing it. Everything is you," says Zeschuk.


It's that subtle but distinct difference that makes Mass Effect's dialogue system a poor fit for Dragon Age: Origins, Muzyka and Zeschuk  say, and it's a choice they think players will find natural when they  finally get behind the controls. Additionally, the Dragon Age system, because it's not tied to a relatively small graphic with a maximum of  five or six choices, can offer far more conversation possibilities than its third-person cousin.

This is why we love you Brock - the quotes

Yeah, it's all just such utter bs and so laughably transparent, after months of discussion you conclude that something cannot work, but then all of a sudden it can, but yeah, we need Hawke & and a voiced PC to make it happen - fantastic work bioware, truly. Unfortunately we're at a point where you'd be a fool to put blind faith into anything a dev says after taking a look at the above hipocrisy. I appreciate the writers and other devs trying to assuage our concerns over these changes, but when the big names like those above apparently
change their minds on what makes a good dialogue system on a daily basis we can do little except wait for the final product and pray that its not been watered down into nothing or bastardised into some ill-fitting mess.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 12 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

You know what's truly depressing? To see David Gaider not realising (or pretending not to realise) the benefits of a silent PC first person narrative over a third person one. Sigh

[Master Shiori]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You know what's truly depressing? To see David Gaider not realising (or pretending not to realise) the benefits of a silent PC first person narrative over a third person one. Sigh

I wouldn't be sure that he doesn't. However, he is forced to accept orders from higher up and if somebody there decided that 3rd person narrative is all the rage and needs to be implemented, then he'll have to bow to their wishes and do it.

You don't argue with people who sign your paycheck, even if you don't agree with what they say.

EDIT:

But he does make a valid point.

Some stories are better told if you have a more predefined protagonist. Doesn't mean that all the stories need to follow that principle though, or that DA3 will as well.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 12 juillet 2010 - 02:18 .

[Barbarossa2010]

phaonica wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

I was bored and started re-reading things and siezed on #3 on "five points about Hawke.
"Hawke didn't just survive the blight...he escaped it.
As the Grey Warden from Dragon Age: Origins was fighting darkspawn, Hawke was living in Lothering. Fans will remember that the small village was raided and destroyed (an event that occurred off-screen in Origins), and Hawke was one of the survivors. However, rather than stay and fight the darkspawn menace, Hawke flees Ferelden and heads north."

So this is the early marketing strategy to sell the new, improved and 'amped up' Dragon Age?  Dragon Age's newest and most important man in the universe is a survivor.  Not a paltry hero who single handedly ended a Blight; united dwarves, elves and men to do so; crowned a dwarven king; avenged Cailan's death and raised his half-brother to the throne of Ferelden; and discovered Andraste's Ashes, but a survivor.  Well that's not technically accurate.  He survived by tucking his tail and running from the Blight.

While my guy was ending the Blight, Hero Hawke ran home and survived it.
Doesn't matter, Hawke is just awesome, dude.

Yeah, I was having some fun participating in a thread arguing whether or not Hawke is a coward. But you couldnt' have an ongoing discussion, because newcomers would never read the previous posts. It was fun at first, but then it became a huge waste of effort. Meh.

Yeah, I know Hawke won't be a sissy or anything.  BW will certainly ensure he is amped up and Spartan-ized, to take advantage of the newer and better, dynamic combat system and cinematic experience.  I just thought the concept of selling a completely new protagonist as: He "didn't just survive the blight...he escaped it," was pretty lame considering that the vast majority of the targeted audience ENDED that Blight in the person of their individual Wardens. It also connotes that escaping is somehow even cooler than surviving.  I mean, thousands upon thousand survived the Blight.  Big deal.  I know the guy that ended it.  Let's see more of him.  Its just weird. 

But "weird" is exactly what I have come to expect from this franchise.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Master Shiori wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You know what's truly depressing? To see David Gaider not realising (or pretending not to realise) the benefits of a silent PC first person narrative over a third person one. Sigh

I wouldn't be sure that he doesn't. However, he is forced to accept orders from higher up and if somebody there decided that 3rd person narrative is all the rage and needs to be implemented, then he'll have to bow to their wishes and do it.

You don't argue with people who sign your paycheck, even if you don't agree with what they say.

EDIT:

But he does make a valid point.

Some stories are better told if you have a more predefined protagonist. Doesn't mean that all the stories need to follow that principle though, or that DA3 will as well.

I am not arguing against that.

What bothers me is his comments that there is little difference between the two systems and that we didn't have that much choice in Origins either, which is missing the point because our character's personalities were our creation. At least that's the impression I got from his comments. Granted, ut was late at night, so I might have misread.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 12 juillet 2010 - 02:29 .

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

That part where Flemeth shifts from dragon to human and says to Hawke: "Well, well. What have we here?" really has me thinking.

The most logical explanation would be that Flemeth normally uses that phrase when confronting uninvited visitors and Morrigan picked it up from her and used it when she encountered the Wardens.

What do you guys/gals think?

Or is there a deeper connection between Flemeth and Morrigan then just mother/daughter realtionship?

Am i the only one who is taking that as a joke? Seriously do you really believe a scene like that happening? I agree BW has made some strange decisions lately, but a high dragon killing of some Darkspawn, shapeshifting into Flemeth and, while still holding the DS in her claw "how can that be if she is in human form and the DS as large as her) greeting you with Morrigan's words. I'll take that as just mocking the fans as he has no information he can give to the Morri fans.

But that scene, that might fit into some kind of trash comedy, but no game that intends to be serious. I might have lost much faith in BW, but that move would be stupid, i don't believe they would pull off  a lousy stunt like that

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

I wouldn't be sure that he doesn't. However, he is forced to accept orders from higher up and if somebody there decided that 3rd person narrative is all the rage and needs to be implemented, then he'll have to bow to their wishes and do it.

You don't argue with people who sign your paycheck, even if you don't agree with what they say.

EDIT:

But he does make a valid point.

Some stories are better told if you have a more predefined protagonist. Doesn't mean that all the stories need to follow that principle though, or that DA3 will as well.

I mean, Gaider strikes me as more of an old school RPG guy, personally. But you're right- he isn't in charge of he direction the series takes so he just has to roll with the punches.

But the sad reality is that with ME1, ME2, TOR and now DA2, BioWare seems to be trying to stake their claim to fame on voice acted everything. Even if they do something different PC perspective wise in a future game, unless there is huge backlash of DA2 flops, I doubt we'll ever have another AAA BioWare game that doesn't have full voice  acting, including the PC.

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

That part where Flemeth shifts from dragon to human and says to Hawke: "Well, well. What have we here?" really has me thinking.

The most logical explanation would be that Flemeth normally uses that phrase when confronting uninvited visitors and Morrigan picked it up from her and used it when she encountered the Wardens.

What do you guys/gals think?

Or is there a deeper connection between Flemeth and Morrigan then just mother/daughter realtionship?

Am i the only one who is taking that as a joke? Seriously do you really believe a scene like that happening? I agree BW has made some strange decisions lately, but a high dragon killing of some Darkspawn, shapeshifting into Flemeth and, while still holding the DS in her claw "how can that be if she is in human form and the DS as large as her) greeting you with Morrigan's words. I'll take that as just mocking the fans as he has no information he can give to the Morri fans.

But that scene, that might fit into some kind of trash comedy, but no game that intends to be serious. I might have lost much faith in BW, but that move would be stupid, i don't believe they would pull off  a lousy stunt like that

MORRIGAN = FLEMETH! OMG!<_<
I swear if BioWare pulls that sort of stunt and basically points and laughs at all of us Morri romancers for basically having had our Wardens screw Flemeth, thats just like giving a hearty F*** you when you've already kicked someone in the balls and whacked them upside the head. That would be writer borne cruelty, plain and simple.

I haven't seen the GI magazine article with my own 2 eyes, but I don't doubt BioWare would do something like that ( the supposed intro scene that is). Flemeth in Origins is very cryptic and secretive and either a good chunk of people killed her or she herself walked away and disappeared. What better way to get people riled up than to have her make a dramatic return while we the players go "Wait shouldn't you be dead?" But of course Hawke doesn't know that so we're left with that ever so wonderful disconnect between the player's knowledge and the PC and people he is interacting with.

That whole KOTOR2 syndrome is what will bother me the most. I'm going to have a hard time trying to RP Hawke if my Cousland's story is left unresolved. What use is there in bringing back old characters for cameos or as companions again if there isn't any connection between the companion and the PC? It won't be some happy reunion when Hawke meets up with Morrigan or Nathaniel or Sten- we'll just be plunked down at square one with their characters all over again. Unless of course BioWare gets devious with the time shifts and presents us with radically changed versions of our old favorites so we the player can be left guessing  "I say! Thats Morrigan but it would seem she grew a mustache to fiendishly twirl and  now wears a monocle and top hat! I'l have to endeavor to uncover what precipitated these changes!"

I care more for my Cousland Warden than Hawke and will furiously metagame to do things in my Cousland's best interest unless we get some closure there. If the Warden's story and particularly the Warden/Morrigan story is given some closure, I'll be more than happy to invest in Hawke. So long as the book is left open with the Warden, I'd rather not get screwed over again with a new PC just getting the shaft all over again.

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 juillet 2010 - 03:18 .

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...

There are several posters that seem to be stalkerishly lurking behind every single developer post  and whenever Gaider or Kirby or Laidlaw make a point, they'll chime in with a worthless little, "Oh thats so amazing! You are so brilliant!" or some such rubbish.

I've noticed this, too.  The really annoying versions of their little comments are the "oh don't bother Mr. Gaider, these morons will never get it, but don't worry because we know."    The ironic thing about ass-kissers is that the people whose asses are being kissed probably despise them, too, and the puckerers don't even know it.  It's amusing, in a sickening sort of way.

"We talked about this for months, and we did all kinds of analysis," says Zeschuk. "Really we see it as a step sideways. It's actually about  presenting different flavors of games."

I guess we've moved from Baskin Robbins to the lemonade stand.  If I thought it would make any difference, I'd quote this article back to those who are insisting that there is no difference between the two systems.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 juillet 2010 - 03:23 .

[MoSa09]

I am fairly sure Flemeth is not Morrigan. At least not throughout Origins. She might be possessing her in DA 2 and we have the choice do either help her and finish both off once and for all, but Flemeth and Morrigan are not the same person from the start.



And as i said, i doubt that video scene will ever happen in game. Someone was just tired of hearing a bunch of Morrigan questions and not allowed to spoil any detaills and came up with that rather unfunny joke.



Flemeth will be part of DA 2, it is safe to say that her plans which involved Morri and the OGB will be part of the story as well. If this will just be briefly touched (as the save game carries over, i doubt OGB is mandatory, so the whole Morrigan plotline which was central to Origins will not be central to DA 2 i assume) or be central to the upcoming remains to be seem.



Where Flemeth is around, Morri is bound to be mentioned. I don't believe she will be central to the game though. She might not even appear in digital flesh throughout DA 2. Claudia Black is expensive to hire, and i doubt they would hire her just for a few lines. On the other hand, i doubt she would be just a companion again.



Maybe the epilogue slide will bring cloaure to Morrigans and the Warden's story, maybe how you deal with Flemeth will determine your Warden's love fate.

[MoSa09]

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

There are several posters that seem to be stalkerishly lurking behind every single developer post  and whenever Gaider or Kirby or Laidlaw make a point, they'll chime in with a worthless little, "Oh thats so amazing! You are so brilliant!" or some such rubbish.

I've noticed this, too.  The really annoying versions of their little comments are the "oh don't bother Mr. Gaider, these morons will never get it, but don't worry because we know."    The ironic thing about ass-kissers is that the people whose asses are being kissed probably despise them, too, and the puckerers don't even know it.  It's amusing, in a sickening sort of way.

but asd much as i hate Gaiders'S cryptic comments, his responses to that kind of behaviour every now and then is funny. I remember who he once reacted in a writer appreciation thred how he just wanted to be treated human and despised all those "David, you're so amazing" followers

[Addai]

MoSa09 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

There are several posters that seem to be stalkerishly lurking behind every single developer post  and whenever Gaider or Kirby or Laidlaw make a point, they'll chime in with a worthless little, "Oh thats so amazing! You are so brilliant!" or some such rubbish.

I've noticed this, too.  The really annoying versions of their little comments are the "oh don't bother Mr. Gaider, these morons will never get it, but don't worry because we know."    The ironic thing about ass-kissers is that the people whose asses are being kissed probably despise them, too, and the puckerers don't even know it.  It's amusing, in a sickening sort of way.

but asd much as i hate Gaiders'S cryptic comments, his responses to that kind of behaviour every now and then is funny. I remember who he once reacted in a writer appreciation thred how he just wanted to be treated human and despised all those "David, you're so amazing" followers

Oh yes, I actually misquoted them.  They all call him "David," not Mr. Gaider.  Because he and they are tight.

[MoSa09]

[quote]Addai67 wrote...

[/quote]
Oh yes, I actually misquoted them.  They all call him "David," not Mr. Gaider.  Because he and they are tight.[/quote]

well, constantly kissing someones a*s can be somehow considered tight

[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

I care more for my Cousland Warden than Hawke and will furiously metagame to do things in my Cousland's best interest unless we get some closure there. If the Warden's story and particularly the Warden/Morrigan story is given some closure, I'll be more than happy to invest in Hawke. So long as the book is left open with the Warden, I'd rather not get screwed over again with a new PC just getting the shaft all over again.

Good point Brock.  Until I have resolution and closure with the real hero of Dragon Age, Hero Hawke (even if he is the most awesome and amped-up survivor and escaper in all of Ferelden, dude) is just a disposable shell to serve my Warden's vision of things.  God forbid Bioware makes me choose between the two in DA3 (Barbarossa/Morrigan or Flemth/Awesome Hawke). 

[SadisticChunkyDwarf]

Heres an easy solution to everyones problem: Release Dragon Age Origins Action Figures.



Now you can act out whatever adventures you want for your precious Alistair and Zevran characters, and all the rest. Dont worry about being the only 25 year old in your neighborhood who plays with dolls, they already know you're a huge nerd. Make sure you pick up French lingerie Morrigan and bang her with the ambigious Warden character that you design yourself so that your imaginary relationships can be resolved in whatever way you wish, complete with toy "AIDS" virus.



Dont forget Trailer Park Skeezer Leliana so that you can enjoy an ultra-realistic domestic life with your chosen companion wife. Spend your remaining days as a Warden drinking cheap beer and beating her up because she cant even cook toast.



Imagine the fun that awaits...all in your control!