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[Brockololly]

New GI article out: Timeline of Thedas

Lore galore!


Edit: Addai got to it first!

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:52 .

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

This article is pretty good.  Gives more history of Kirkwall, which makes me more interested in it as a place, particularly its history as a slave center.  Apropos elves, I haven't seen any anywhere, but there have to be some.  Right? 

Sigh. Dragon Age really does have an excellent storyline. This article reads like someone's Dungeon's and Dragons setting, heh, but I think worldbuilding is fascinating, so it works for me.

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

True enough. I'm far from a technical expert on graphics but I believe its easier to work with something like CryEngine 3 or Tech 5 as they're designed more for an FPS as opposed to a party based RPG like DA. I think I remember some of the devs saying how with the party members and such, it makes it more difficult to spruce up other visual aspects given memory considerations.

I don't pass myself off as an authority but years of modding have given me enough knowledge to be able to understand how this stuff works. Memory restrictions are the huge limiting factor for consoles, however they can be circumvented and you can get away with a lot. They got Doom 3 running on the original Xbox and it only had 64 MB of RAM while it needed at least 384 MB on a PC. After seeing some of BioWare's coding in Denerim it just seems like they are wasting that memory because they don't have the technical know how to do it right.

Brockololly wrote...

But at the end of the day, your average Bro consumer doesn't give a hoot about the technical considerations of why DA2 looks like poo while Rage looks like it descended from Heaven on a golden platter- all the "mainstream" consumer will wonder is why DA2 doesn't look as good as Rage and thus if DA2 looks crummy, the whole game must be crummy. If thats the demographic BioWare is shifting towards, those are the expectations they'll have to deal with.

Exactly, the mainstream public and the gaming press are not going to coddle them, they are going to rip them apart. Rage will look amazing on everthing since id will take the time to properly code and build the game for each system and BioWare will rush out this buggy hack job pumped full of memory leaks and performance drops. I'd like to be wrong about that but I doubt I will, this is just not cutting it anymore. They need to give up on making their own engines and have someone competent do it from now on for everyone's sake.

phaonica wrote...

If Bethesda is working with that for
Elder Scrolls, that would just be amazing. Oblivion looked good, but
they could really use some help with their character models, I
thought. I also disliked the way they did dungeon leveling, but mods
fix that. Gotta love mods. Bioware will have to release DA2 first or
they will not be able to compete with an Elder Scrolls title, no matter
what engine it's on.

Indeed a Tech 5 Elder Scrolls would completely steal Dragon Age's spotlight. As for the GameBryo Engine, well another reason for showing off that screenshot was to demonstrate how versitile that engine is. Even if they didn't switch to Tech 5 GameBryo can still create stunning environments with full support for all the modern bells and whistles. I'm being honest when I say that Dragon Age 2 is subpar, it's not good enough for a game coming out in 2011.

[Kryyptehk]

adneate wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

See: Xbox 360, PS3

Crytek has CryEngine 3 running on both of those machines and when John Carmack first demoed Tech 5 he boasted that it would look almost exactly the same across all 4 systems.

laradenton wrote...

Then do say so when you post the image. For somebody who never played
Oblivion, that image might look authentic and it's not.

I added in the name of the community mods. It is taken in game so I mean technically it's authentic just not Vanilla.

Yeah, except that vanilla Oblivion looks like crap. Shiny crap, but crap. The snow looks like sweaty marshmellows. So while it is pretty impressive that modders can do that kind of stuff, it also doesn't exactly compliment Bethesda. Especially since DA2 will already have beaten them if they keep the Character Creator they already have and use the animation that works the faces.

Basically, what I'm saying is, as "better" as Oblivion looks, it falls WAY behind on certain aspects. So if DA2 keeps even a quarter of what made DA good, it will be better than Oblivion. The only good thing that Oblivion has is the large map and the HUGE amount of quests.

[Brockololly]

Skimming through that timeline article it has some info on Kirkwall, this being perhaps quite relevent if Flemeth gets involved there:

9:21 Dragon Age: Lord Marlowe Dumar is appointed the new Viscountof Kirkwall, replacing Perrin Threnhold, a tyrant killed by the city’s templars “for the good of all.” It is noted by many, however, that Threnhold’s abuses were only opposed after he tried to have the templar order expelled. It is said that Dumar holds power at the sufferance of the templars, and that their order has grown extremely powerful in Kirkwall during his reign. They have become the center of Chantry strength in eastern Thedas and hold their Circle of Magi in a terrifying, iron grip.

Seems like they're really going to push the whole "Chantry is EVIL" angle here. Seems logical where Morrigan and Flemeth and the Old God baby could fit in- what with the OGB being a symbol of Freedom and all....

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:52 .

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

This article is pretty good.  Gives more history of Kirkwall, which makes me more interested in it as a place, particularly its history as a slave center.  Apropos elves, I haven't seen any anywhere, but there have to be some.  Right? 

*claps hands with glee as he gets his lore fix*

It seems to be a town heavily influenced by the templars (judging from how the current ruler was installed).

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

Skimming through that timeline article it has some info on Kirkwall, this being perhaps quite relevent if Flemeth gets involved there:

9:21 Dragon Age: Lord Marlowe Dumar is appointed the new Viscountof Kirkwall, replacing Perrin Threnhold, a tyrant killed by the city’s templars “for the good of all.” It is noted by many, however, that Threnhold’s abuses were only opposed after he tried to have the templar order expelled. It is said that Dumar holds power at the sufferance of the templars, and that their order has grown extremely powerful in Kirkwall during his reign. They have become the center of Chantry strength in eastern Thedas and hold their Circle of Magi in a terrifying, iron grip.

Seems like they're really going to push the whole "Chantry is EVIL" angle here. Seems logical where Morrigan and Flemeth and the Old God baby could fit in- what with the OGB being a symbol of Freedom and all....

A conflict between the Chantry and a representative of the Old Gods would be awesome. Though damn you, Morrigan, if the OGB is meant to be a weapon against the Chantry (my Warden would not be happy about that).

[Barbarossa2010]

adneate wrote...

Their competition could have an RPG that looks like this:

Looks like a screen from Rage, am I right?  Carmack's latest emerging innovation (yes, I am a closted fanboy for reasons going back, what?...17+ years now).  Can't (repeat CAN NOT) wait.  Told you I was starting to lean toward Bethesda for no other reason that they are geniuses for scarfing him (and id) up, as well as playing Oblivion/Fallout 3 for the first time.  Knowing they have Tech5 (and Carmack) in the kitbag...well, just wait.

You're right, Bioware may indeed need to heed.  (convoluted rhyming not intentional).

[Addai]

phaonica wrote...

Sigh. Dragon Age really does have an excellent storyline. This article reads like someone's Dungeon's and Dragons setting, heh, but I think worldbuilding is fascinating, so it works for me.

I would definitely buy another Gaider novel if he writes one.  I do like the story line and his characters seem to get me.

[Barbarossa2010]

Swoo wrote...

Back to Dragon Age 2, and being brutally honest, the graphics suck. I wonder how long it would delay a release to put it on the far superior Unreal engine?

Said the same thing Swoo.  The way I see it, they cast off just about everything that mattered to me in a sequel for DA:O (PC, romance, relationships with companions, dialogue system), why not trash the one thing that actually could withstand radical change (graphics/engine), and at least give us a pretty game!

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...

Seems like they're really going to push the whole "Chantry is EVIL" angle here. Seems logical where Morrigan and Flemeth and the Old God baby could fit in- what with the OGB being a symbol of Freedom and all....

I found it interesting that the Grey Wardens were at the forefront of promoting the Chantry early on.  I don't think we heard that before?  I'm pretty certain my Dalish Wardens never heard it!

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...
A conflict between the Chantry and a representative of the Old Gods would be awesome. Though damn you, Morrigan, if the OGB is meant to be a weapon against the Chantry (my Warden would not be happy about that).

Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that would work, unless Morrigan was lying. She claimed she would leave Ferelden alone but no doubt trying to break up or destroy the Chantry would affect Ferelden.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Seems like they're really going to push the whole "Chantry is EVIL" angle here. Seems logical where Morrigan and Flemeth and the Old God baby could fit in- what with the OGB being a symbol of Freedom and all....

I found it interesting that the Grey Wardens were at the forefront of promoting the Chantry early on.  I don't think we heard that before?  I'm pretty certain my Dalish Wardens never heard it!

Ahh yes, I saw that part too. I always thought the whole point with the Wardens was that they didn't get involved with politics or religion? I mean its hinted that the Wardens are the de-facto rulers in the Anderfels, but I never knew they were once heavily involved in promoting the Chantry...

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

phaonica wrote...
A conflict between the Chantry and a representative of the Old Gods would be awesome. Though damn you, Morrigan, if the OGB is meant to be a weapon against the Chantry (my Warden would not be happy about that).

Yeah, I'm not quite sure how that would work, unless Morrigan was lying. She claimed she would leave Ferelden alone but no doubt trying to break up or destroy the Chantry would affect Ferelden.

Did she say that? I don't remember. I just remember her promising to leave Ferelden, and that she had no interest in the OGB as an heir to Ferelden's throne.

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

Ahh yes, I saw that part too. I always thought the whole point with the Wardens was that they didn't get involved with politics or religion? I mean its hinted that the Wardens are the de-facto rulers in the Anderfels, but I never knew they were once heavily involved in promoting the Chantry...

I think that ended with the schism between Tevinter and the rest of Thedas.

[soignee]

Brockololly wrote...

Skimming through that timeline article it has some info on Kirkwall, this being perhaps quite relevent if Flemeth gets involved there:

9:21 Dragon Age: Lord Marlowe Dumar is appointed the new Viscountof Kirkwall, replacing Perrin Threnhold, a tyrant killed by the city’s templars “for the good of all.” It is noted by many, however, that Threnhold’s abuses were only opposed after he tried to have the templar order expelled. It is said that Dumar holds power at the sufferance of the templars, and that their order has grown extremely powerful in Kirkwall during his reign. They have become the center of Chantry strength in eastern Thedas and hold their Circle of Magi in a terrifying, iron grip.

Seems like they're really going to push the whole "Chantry is EVIL" angle here. Seems logical where Morrigan and Flemeth and the Old God baby could fit in- what with the OGB being a symbol of Freedom and all....

None of my characters are Chantry lovers, but this seems off to me.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I would be really dissapointed if Morrigan did everything only to destroy the Chantry. It's very anti-climactic and not like her. She couldn't care less about the freedom of the masses and if they want to believe in whatever, let them as long as they don't bother her. I would be very meeh if that was her plan.

[Brockololly]

soignee wrote...

None of my characters are Chantry lovers, but this seems off to me.

Yeah... I never rememeber seeing anything like that in the codex for DAO. I hope they don't start sneakily retconning certain things so they fit into the narrative of DA2 better; that would be annoying.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I would be really dissapointed if
Morrigan did everything only to destroy the Chantry. It's very
anti-climactic and not like her. She couldn't care less about the
freedom of the masses and if they want to believe in whatever, let them
as long as they don't bother her. I would be very meeh if that was her
plan.

Yeah, as presented in Origins, Morrigan doesn't really care about the plight of others at all. If mages are weak enough to be shackled by the Templars and the Chantry thats their problem, not her problem. She is interested in power, not to rule over others, but as a means to increase her odds of survival in a hostile world that views her with distrust and unease.

So to simply have her use the Old God Baby as a means to destroy or weaken the Chantry's influence is just sort of underwhelming, I think. Unless thats just one step in her greater plan towards some even greater goal...

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 juillet 2010 - 08:55 .

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

soignee wrote...

None of my characters are Chantry lovers, but this seems off to me.

Yeah... I never rememeber seeing anything like that in the codex for DAO. I hope they don't start sneakily retconning certain things so they fit into the narrative of DA2 better; that would be annoying.

There were the hinting of mass graves consisting of converts to the Qun in the tome of knowledge. I don't think it was in the game, but it predates DAO.

Brother Genitivi, Chantry Scholar wrote...

For all the force that the qunari armies had brought to bear on the north, they also lacked the sheer numbers of the humans. As each year passed, the Chantry pushed further and further into the qunari lines. Dealing with those of the local populace which had converted to the qunari religion proved difficult, especially as some of these had lived under the qun now for generations, and the response by many armies was simply to exterminate all those who had converted. Officially the Chantry denies this, claiming most converts fled north into Rivain and Par Vollen, but the mass graves at Nocen Fields and Marnus Pell attest otherwise. Indeed, so many were slain at Marnus Pell that the Veil is said to be permanently sundered, the ruins still plagued by restless corpses to this day

[Barbarossa2010]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Indeed, get the game installed Addai, if Barbarossa can do it, so can you.

I resemble that remark.

[Herr Uhl]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

Indeed, get the game installed Addai, if Barbarossa can do it, so can you.

I resemble that remark.

I thought that was the point of remarking it.

[Brockololly]

ANother curious point- I never realized the Qunari made it so far south as Kirkwall. I always figured their invasion was mostly up north in the Tevinter Imperium and Rivain before getting pushed back.



Unless of course the Qunari just sort of had a naval force sail down into the Waking Sea and take Kirkwall that way...

[Herr Uhl]

Antiva would likely have been conquered. Then there isn't that far to the Free marches.



I imagine them coming from the northeast and down.

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

ANother curious point- I never realized the Qunari made it so far south as Kirkwall. I always figured their invasion was mostly up north in the Tevinter Imperium and Rivain before getting pushed back.

Unless of course the Qunari just sort of had a naval force sail down into the Waking Sea and take Kirkwall that way...

And if that's the case, they were one small stretch of water from breaching northern Ferelden. This begs the question of what caused them to fall back...

[soignee]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Antiva would likely have been conquered. Then there isn't that far to the Free marches.

I imagine them coming from the northeast and down.

for some reason I got an army of stens against an army of zevrans in my head and I just gave myself the uncontrollable giggles.

But yeah, Antivan way of dealing with things wouldn't work so well against the Qunari.