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[Shade of Wolf]

Addai67 wrote...

Shade of Wolf wrote...

Wow have't been on in weeks! Now all of sudden there's DA2? I'm not especially fond of the idea of (what's his name; Hawke?) being fully voiced, it sort of takes the whole 'Role-Playing' out of the equation.

That would be MKE HAWKE!

Said in the tone and style of STEVE HOLT!



But don't tell the ME fanboys in the DA2 forum that you can't roleplay with a voiced PC.

Lolz

[MoSa09]

Brockololly wrote...


Oh but its more cinematic!

I'll reserve judgement until I see it myself, but I'm wondering how Flemeth would shapeshift down from dragon form and still be holding a human sized hurlock in her hand...

And as for the whole "Well, well what do we have here?" line, the devs I think clearly want you to probably think its Morrigan or something...

just adding more cinematic does not make it a better game all by itself

I do wonder what the scene means. Is this just some "deva vu" moment or is there any kind of deeper meaning. Is Flemeth maybe truly Morrigan, they are just one and fooled us all (that would su*k beyond words), or did she possessed her sometime along the way.

If Morrigan never existed, as it was Flemeth all the time, that would easiy solve their problem. No need for the Warden ( i would not want any kind of reunion that way), no  need to hire Claudia Black, and they could get her story done.

But on the other hand, that would make all the personal experiences you had with Morrigan throughout Origins completely useless. And even worse, if they don't deny this theory when asked here on the boards, we will have to wait until DA 2 to be sure

Modifié par MoSa09, 16 juillet 2010 - 08:20 .

[blademaster7]

Am I the only one who is concerned about the obvious gap between the player and Hawke? I mean, we already know Flemeth but the conversation wheel will only reflect what Hawke has to say. And then people on the DA2 boards talk about immersion and emotional attachment to the new PC.


Flemeth: Well well, what have we here?

Me:  Aren't you supposed to be dead? Just how many times do I have to kick your dragon ass?

Hawke: Get away from me scary lady! You're weird... and scary... and i think I wet my self...

Me: *Facepalm*

[Shade of Wolf]

MoSa09 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...


Oh but its more cinematic!

I'll reserve judgement until I see it myself, but I'm wondering how Flemeth would shapeshift down from dragon form and still be holding a human sized hurlock in her hand...

And as for the whole "Well, well what do we have here?" line, the devs I think clearly want you to probably think its Morrigan or something...

just adding more cinematic does not make it a better game all by itself

I do wonder what the scene means. Is this just some "deva vu" moment or is there any kind of deeper meaning. Is Flemeth maybe truly Morrigan, they are just one and fooled us all (that would su*k beyond words), or did she possessed her sometime along the way.

If Morrigan never existed, as it was Flemeth all the time, that would easiy solve their problem. No need for the Warden ( i would not want any kind of reunion that way), no  need to hire Claudia Black, and they could get her story done.

But on the other hand, that would make all the personal experiences you had with Morrigan throughout Origins completely useless. And even worse, if they don't deny this theory when asked here on the boards, we will have to wait until DA 2 to be sure

Oh Maker! *covers ears*
Even if Morrigan does reappear, where does that leave our beloved PC? I was pretty sure that DA2 was heading towards Orlais, like Morrigan in some epilogues, but now we have a new PC in a new environment. I personally think that this is a risky move on BioWare's part.
Will there be romance in this game? I haven't played ME2 yet, put I get the feeling that fully voiced romances will be awkward, I hated all the voice options in Origins, but the random outbursts were bearable.
Aaaah, Captain Flemeth Janeway...so she isn't dead? What a shock  >.<
Bummer for Morrigan though, I wonder if any references to the old Warden (that was heartbreaking) will be made in the new game?

[blademaster7]

^ I'm going stick my neck out and say they didn't make the game in Orlais because of the accents.



If I was the director I wouldn't want Orlais either.

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...
And even worse, if they don't deny this theory when asked here on the boards, we will have to wait until DA 2 to be sure

I think thats the plan- they know a fair amount of people are interested in the Morrigan storyline. What better way to have people interested than hinting "MORRIGAN IS FLEMETH!" kind of how they tried to fake people out with the "SHEPARD IS DEAD" stuff for ME2.

But I'm guessing we'll get a better feel for how they approach marketing the story with the trailer next month. I'm willing to bet that either Flemeth or Morrigan narrates part of it, as Kate Mulgrew and Claudia Black have very distinctive voices. At least thats what I want to see...

blademaster7 wrote...

Am I the only one who is concerned
about the obvious gap between the player and Hawke? I mean, we already
know Flemeth but the conversation wheel will only reflect what Hawke has
to say. And then people on the DA2 boards talk about immersion and
emotional attachment to the new PC.


Flemeth: Well
well, what have we here?

Me:  Aren't you supposed to be
dead? Just how many times do I have to kick your dragon ass?

Hawke:
Get away from me scary lady! You're weird... and scary... and i think I
wet my self...

Me: *Facepalm*

Thats precisely my problem with their "Thedas First" approach- it ends up like KOTOR2 where you were a new PC but ran into KOTOR1 companions. As the player you're happy to see them again, but you go to talk with them and of course its a conversation between strangers. Its the perfect way to kill any emotional engagement. It just feels weird and disconnected, making it harder to care about your PC, IMO.

The thing is that this information gap only gets larger as they make more DA games, unless they totally disconnect them from existing lore.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

^ I'm going stick my neck out and say they didn't make the game in Orlais because of the accents.

If I was the director I wouldn't want Orlais either.

Thats probably true- then again, we don't know what accents the Free Marches people talk with....although Hawke will likely sound suitably British since he/she is from Ferelden.

[Giggles_Manically]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

^ I'm going stick my neck out and say they didn't make the game in Orlais because of the accents.

If I was the director I wouldn't want Orlais either.

Thats probably true- then again, we don't know what accents the Free Marches people talk with....although Hawke will likely sound suitably British since he/she is from Ferelden.

Meer and Hale will probably be cast sadly, I can just about stand Meer's voice, but not Hale's. She sounds like she is out of breath most of the time to me.

Also my friend is doing the TOR beta, and I am really hoping to get in to.

[Herr Uhl]

blademaster7 wrote...

Am I the only one who is concerned about the obvious gap between the player and Hawke? I mean, we already know Flemeth but the conversation wheel will only reflect what Hawke has to say. And then people on the DA2 boards talk about immersion and emotional attachment to the new PC.


Flemeth: Well well, what have we here?

Me:  Aren't you supposed to be dead? Just how many times do I have to kick your dragon ass?

Hawke: Get away from me scary lady! You're weird... and scary... and i think I wet my self...

Me: *Facepalm*

The first time you meet her is before the warden kills her (Lothering gets destroyed if you finish the tower). Then she'll probably change shell no matter what your warden did.

[Shade of Wolf]

blademaster7 wrote...

^ I'm going stick my neck out and say they didn't make the game in Orlais because of the accents.

If I was the director I wouldn't want Orlais either.

Good point.
Still a lot of the game was pointing towards it, I think that it will eventually pop up in later games, but as an exclusive quest  area or something.

Modifié par Shade of Wolf, 16 juillet 2010 - 09:02 .

[Master Shiori]

Wow.



Guy leaves on a vacation and suddenly the topic grows faster than broodmother can pump out darkspawn o_O



I'll say just one thing about the whole "Flemeth is Morrigan" thing: It doesn't stick.



In the Wilds you can clearly see they are 2 separate people. Therefore, the only way for them to be one would be for Flemeth to possess Morri, and if that happened then Morrigan would no longer exist.



DA is NOT a world of high magic. They're trying to keep things pretty grounded. Therefore, Morrigan cannot be a clone or otherwise an extension of Flemeth.



Continuing Morrigan's story won't be a problem, as long as you can get Claudia Black to voice her again (which shouldn't be a problem if you plan things a bit ahead). I believe Bioware went to grat length to show us how important Morrigan can be in Origins. It would be weird for them to suddenly try and have Flemeth possess her just to "make things easier". So far they appear to be very careful not to step on anyone's toes (when it comes to respecting choices and romances from Origins). Saying "Morri is actually Flemeth" would start a massive ****storm among the players, which I doubt Bioware would be willing to risk.

[blademaster7]

Herr Uhl wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Am I the only one who is concerned about the obvious gap between the player and Hawke? I mean, we already know Flemeth but the conversation wheel will only reflect what Hawke has to say. And then people on the DA2 boards talk about immersion and emotional attachment to the new PC.


Flemeth: Well well, what have we here?

Me:  Aren't you supposed to be dead? Just how many times do I have to kick your dragon ass?

Hawke: Get away from me scary lady! You're weird... and scary... and i think I wet my self...

Me: *Facepalm*

The first time you meet her is before the warden kills her (Lothering gets destroyed if you finish the tower). Then she'll probably change shell no matter what your warden did.

Hmm... I guess it's possible.

But we truly don't know when Hawke will meet her. It could be before you finish the tower, it could also be several years later with her new body.

[Ash Wind]

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

I'll quote the part about the party members which is kind of odd to me:

[quote] In Origins, party members were incompatible with certain moral stances, For example, Leliana and Wynne wouldn't tolerate cruelty and would abandon the Warden if their approval rating fell low enough. This led many evil-inclined players to avoid using Leliana or Wynne even if they were optimal characters in term of balancing the party. This kind of meta-game is no longer necessary in Dragon Age II.

If a character disagrees with your choices, they may still complain, but it isn't necessarily bad. In fact, you can even be openly hostile to your party members and still unlock combat bonuses- a benefit previously reserved for those who established positive relationships. Finally, players can tell off the characters that annoy them.
[/quote]

Its times like this the devs appear to be talking out of both sides of their mouth.

We want your choices to matter and you will get to see the consequences of your actions… BUT we don’t want your choices to matter with your party members because the consequences might be they leave, so we’ll water it down.

If you were playing a darker character, why would you even want or care about keeping Wynn or Leliana in your party…? just to listen to them repeatedly complain about your choices?? Its not like they were the only Mage or Rogue available.

I guess this is ‘choice and consequence’ DA:2 style… Amped and Hot Rodded!!!!!! Seems more watered-down and weak to me. I liked the fact that party members had their own minds/opinions and might walk off… or even attack (Wynn, Leliana if you desecrate the ashes) you based on your choices.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 16 juillet 2010 - 09:04 .

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

In the Wilds you can clearly see they are 2 separate people. Therefore, the only way for them to be one would be for Flemeth to possess Morri, and if that happened then Morrigan would no longer exist.

DA is NOT a world of high magic. They're trying to keep things pretty grounded. Therefore, Morrigan cannot be a clone or otherwise an extension of Flemeth.

a few months back, i would have said the same. But after that mysterious Warden resurrection without a word in Awakening and that weird direction they're heading at the moment, contrary to all they said just one year before, i am not so sure any more.

Master Shiori wrote...
 Saying "Morri is actually Flemeth" would start a massive ****storm among the players, which I doubt Bioware would be willing to risk.

and a bunch of loyal BW cultists (do they sell some kind of Gaider buddha in the store btw, that could make the new topseller in the store for those morons) and Morri haters would cheer and love them for that kind of move.

[Ash Wind]

lol Not quite sure why my quote is in Brock's but suffice to say, the bottom portion are my words, not Brock's.

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...
Thats precisely my problem with their "Thedas First" approach- it ends up like KOTOR2 where you were a new PC but ran into KOTOR1 companions. As the player you're happy to see them again, but you go to talk with them and of course its a conversation between strangers. Its the perfect way to kill any emotional engagement. It just feels weird and disconnected, making it harder to care about your PC, IMO.

Let's take the rather lame example of alternate perspective given us by Darkspawn Chronicles.  Some people did feel badly killing Alistair or Morrigan in DSC.  I thought the whole thing was so ridiculous that I couldn't feel a single flicker of emotional pull.

I really think this mosaic approach will backfire.  I know that I've been waiting for the dev team to get their act together and come up with a  DLC that actually feels like more of what I love.  Each time it doesn't happen, I've told myself "next time they'll do better," or else, "it's just the DLCs, the sequel will be better."  I do like the DA world and its lore, but it's not nearly as fully realized or rich as Middle Earth, for example.  You can see it with the Dalish, where the lore is stretched thin.  So to pin so much on people being in love with the world...  I dunno.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

I really think this mosaic approach will backfire.  I know that I've been waiting for the dev team to get their act together and come up with a  DLC that actually feels like more of what I love.  Each time it doesn't happen, I've told myself "next time they'll do better," or else, "it's just the DLCs, the sequel will be better."  I do like the DA world and its lore, but it's not nearly as fully realized or rich as Middle Earth, for example.  You can see it with the Dalish, where the lore is stretched thin.  So to pin so much on people being in love with the world...  I dunno.

Yeah, if they took a more BG style approach the mosaic style of telling the story of the world could be ok. But I think they just left too much wide open and unanswered with Origins and Awakening. Maybe they close some stuff off with future DLC or an ex-pack but based on the exitsing DLC and Awakening, I'm not optimistic.

With BG, they left the PC's story somewhat open for future exploration but that was all in the text epilogues- the ovaerarching story was nicely closed off and despite how much you may have liked the characters, there was a real sense of closure. Closure, especially with the DR, is whats missing in Origins I think.

-----------------------------------------------
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And since this is the crazy speculation thread, try this one out:
Hawke is the product of Flemeth and Maric's night in the hut from The Stolen Throne....!!!!!

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 juillet 2010 - 09:30 .

[MoSa09]

Brockololly wrote...

And since this is the crazy speculation thread, try this one out:
Hawke is the product of Flemeth and Maric's night in the hut from The Stolen Throne....!!!!!

i've heard this before. Judging by the sreenshots, the age might fit. Depends if Maric favors he granted Flemeth was having a child and not something completely different. Interesting, i never thought about that: we leave Ferelden, and yet Flemeth unrevealed favor was granted by the king of Ferelden. Maybe Ferelden will play a bigger part than i expected...

But i suppose we learn more about that in DA 2 when Flemeth returns...

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...
Hawke is the product of Flemeth and Maric's night in the hut from The Stolen Throne....!!!!!

So... FemHawke is a Witch of the Wilds?

What does that make MaleHawke? The Wizard of the Wilds?

[MoSa09]

blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Hawke is the product of Flemeth and Maric's night in the hut from The Stolen Throne....!!!!!

So... FemHawke is a Witch of the Wilds?

What does that make MaleHawke? The Wizard of the Wilds?

Geralt Hawke, The Witcher of the Wilds. And instead of romances, we get a bunch of sex cards we can unlock as achievements

Modifié par MoSa09, 16 juillet 2010 - 10:09 .

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

And since this is the crazy speculation thread, try this one out:
Hawke is the product of Flemeth and Maric's night in the hut from The Stolen Throne....!!!!!

Firstly ew.

Secondly Hawke is the reincarnation of Duncan's Beard and also he is the Shadow Broker.

[Brockololly]

Ahh.. but think of the drama! If Flemeth is your mother, you can team up with your sis Morrigan and kill Flemeth all over again! And Alistair would be your half bro! And you'd have a claim to the Ferelden throne! Drama! Suspense!


Apparently, DA2 will be at Comic Con! http://social.biowar...3149188#3149188

And Game Informer DA2 wallpapers

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 juillet 2010 - 11:41 .

[MoSa09]

Brockololly wrote...

Ahh.. but think of the drama! If Flemeth is your mother, you can team up with your sis Morrigan and kill Flemeth all over again! And Alistair would be your half bro! And you'd have a claim to the Ferelden throne! Drama! Suspense!

that idea has some appeal. If Morrigan is revealed to be Hawkes sisterm that could get so much tension out of the way. I mean, meeting her with Hawke would stir all those romantic feelings my Warden still has. But if Hawke and thereby me get to know she is Hawkes sister, that would greatly help getting those feelings temporarily away. The more i think about it, the more i love that idea. I would really be able to play and enjoy DA 2 without being cnstantly worried and annoyed because of Morrigan.

This idea is brilliant, which is a clear indication it won't be part of the game But seriously, i love the way you think. Hopefully, the writers had the very same idea. Imagine, talking to your sister about the man she once loved, guiding her... Maybe Cassandra the Seeker is after him because he is an apostate child. If a seeker, a secret chantry cult we never heard of is hunting him, there must be something very specific about him, probably magic related. Being the son of a well known and feared abomination would definetively qualify

[Herr Uhl]

 As to the question of Flemeth, Claw Girl here,

seems to be her according to the link.

[Brockololly]

Yeah, figured as much. The big question I have now regarding the much better looking Flemeth, is whether her new look is due to her snatching a new body or if its merely the byproduct of the whole overhaul in the visual style?