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THE Morrigan Discussion and Research Thread *Infested with Bugs Yet Again!*


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#5451
Addai

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Brockololly wrote...

Ahh.. but think of the drama! If Flemeth is your mother, you can team up with your sis Morrigan and kill Flemeth all over again! And Alistair would be your half bro! And you'd have a claim to the Ferelden throne! Drama! Suspense!


You mean MIKE HAWKE! has a shot at being KING HAWKE!??

That. Is. Awesome.  And solves the heir problem.

I was figuring they would be doing some more reveals at Comic Con.  What I really want to hear is that Bethesda is coming out with a new Elder Scrolls soon.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:20 .


#5452
Herr Uhl

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Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, figured as much. The big question I have now regarding the much better looking Flemeth, is whether her new look is due to her snatching a new body or if its merely the byproduct of the whole overhaul in the visual style?


I think that the new body thing is most likely. It fills the plothole about how she is there if you killed her.

#5453
soignee

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Herr Uhl wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, figured as much. The big question I have now regarding the much better looking Flemeth, is whether her new look is due to her snatching a new body or if its merely the byproduct of the whole overhaul in the visual style?


I think that the new body thing is most likely. It fills the plothole about how she is there if you killed her.


[alistair voice] creeeeeeeepy. [/alistair voice]

#5454
Brockololly

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Herr Uhl wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, figured as much. The big question I have now regarding the much better looking Flemeth, is whether her new look is due to her snatching a new body or if its merely the byproduct of the whole overhaul in the visual style?


I think that the new body thing is most likely. It fills the plothole about how she is there if you killed her.

Yeah, if you kill her she just grabbed a new body and if she got away it could be reasoned that her old body gave out forcing her to steal a new body too.

And if they want to make her a companion or something, they could explain away her starting at a lower level in that the new body she took over was not prepared  properly for her takeover....But if it is a new body, I wonder who's it is? 

#5455
Herr Uhl

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I don't think that it is Morrigan at least. Maybe it is your sister?

#5456
Brockololly

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Herr Uhl wrote...

I don't think that it is Morrigan at least. Maybe it is your sister?


Yeah, I don't think its Morrigan either... Unless its just some nameless person, I 'd wager it could be another Witch of the Wilds, maybe? As far as Flemeth taking over Bethany's body- I don't know. I guess it would depend on when you first meet Flemeth, really. 

If you first run across Flemeth like right after Lothering and she ends up looking like she does in the concept art, then it would seem that they would be retconning her look...

#5457
MKDAWUSS

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Brockololly wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

I don't think that it is Morrigan at least. Maybe it is your sister?


Yeah, I don't think its Morrigan either... Unless its just some nameless person, I 'd wager it could be another Witch of the Wilds, maybe? As far as Flemeth taking over Bethany's body- I don't know. I guess it would depend on when you first meet Flemeth, really. 

If you first run across Flemeth like right after Lothering and she ends up looking like she does in the concept art, then it would seem that they would be retconning her look...


Well, Beth is a mage, and female. That's 2 of the qualifications right there. Not to mention it would also be the punchline of the game that BioWare often likes to deliver.

#5458
errant_knight

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Good God, the graphics look absolutely awful. What can they possibly be thinking?

#5459
Giggles_Manically

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Games in an early production period are often ugly since programing, level design, AI, scripting, and items are all added and tested first. Visual Polish comes later unless youre a next gen selling amazing graphics that is.

#5460
mellifera

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Didn't Gaider or someone say the game looks a lot better than those screencaps too? Iguess we have to just wait and see.

#5461
tmp7704

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He said it looks better on his screen, didn't say "a lot" better though, and that was when these screens were originally posted with gamma cranked all way up, making them look twice as bad as they look now.



Guess will have to wait and see. Maybe it will improve, maybe it won't. Also, if i understand right these screenshots are from the Xbox version and some improvement from DAO on consoles can be seen in them, as far as texture details and such things go.

#5462
Brockololly

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Yeah, the screens don't look very impressive at all right now. Gaider did say that the version he was playing was "striking" I think. So long as the game on a technical level looks as good as Origins did on my PC I'll be happy. I'd like to think the game will look a bit better given some time.Because it certainly doesn't look "super hot" right now.

I'm more concerned with the art style, really. Its just that the whole barren landscape deal from the screenshots doesn't do the visuals any favors as the bland environments was one of Origins' biggest visual complaints. And the overly jagged and angular focus just reminds me of N64 style polygons. Hopefully with some visual polish things will start looking better.

And since DA2 will apparently be at Comic Con this coming week, it must be looking good enough to show off...

#5463
phaonica

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Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ahh.. but think of the drama! If Flemeth is your mother, you can team up with your sis Morrigan and kill Flemeth all over again! And Alistair would be your half bro! And you'd have a claim to the Ferelden throne! Drama! Suspense!


You mean MIKE HAWKE! has a shot at being KING HAWKE!??

That. Is. Awesome.  And solves the heir problem.

I was figuring they would be doing some more reveals at Comic Con.  What I really want to hear is that Bethesda is coming out with a new Elder Scrolls soon.


Do you all think this is something that Maric would have agreed to, so early in the story? I know they needed her help, but giving Flemeth Ferelden's eldest potential heir is pretty serious.

#5464
Swoo

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Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, the screens don't look very impressive at all right now. Gaider did say that the version he was playing was "striking" I think.


The problem is if you have that level of detail capable of showcasing it, then there is absolutely no reason not to show them off. I'm sure the game looks better than the screenshots (because anything post 2002 can easily say that), but I doubt it's going to be as 'striking' and 'super-hot' as they keep trumpeting. If it was, we would have seen it.

#5465
tmp7704

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Swoo wrote...

The problem is if you have that level of detail capable of showcasing it, then there is absolutely no reason not to show them off. I'm sure the game looks better than the screenshots (because anything post 2002 can easily say that), but I doubt it's going to be as 'striking' and 'super-hot' as they keep trumpeting. If it was, we would have seen it.

Reading that Game Informer article, it'd appear when they were talking about "super hot" graphics they didn't really meant technological prowess but rather design overhaul and giving the game its own, distinct style/appearance. Hence the darkspawn no longer being green/purple orcs, the angular armour etc.

I can buy that and while the new look can be hit or miss with people it does appear different enough. Doesn't really help the weak technology part, though (and also makes it easier to believe there won't be much of change coming in this area)

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:35 .


#5466
Giggles_Manically

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I want a quality game I dont care about graphics at all. I mean graphics have never ruined a good game for me. I still play Xcom command when I am bored.



-I really hope that rumors for another one are true!

#5467
Addai

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phaonica wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ahh.. but think of the drama! If Flemeth is your mother, you can team up with your sis Morrigan and kill Flemeth all over again! And Alistair would be your half bro! And you'd have a claim to the Ferelden throne! Drama! Suspense!


You mean MIKE HAWKE! has a shot at being KING HAWKE!??

That. Is. Awesome.  And solves the heir problem.

I was figuring they would be doing some more reveals at Comic Con.  What I really want to hear is that Bethesda is coming out with a new Elder Scrolls soon.


Do you all think this is something that Maric would have agreed to, so early in the story? I know they needed her help, but giving Flemeth Ferelden's eldest potential heir is pretty serious.


Can only speak for myself, but I'm being completely facetious.  The idea of Flemeth raping Maric is not something I even want to contemplate.  :sick::sick::sick:

#5468
Brockololly

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phaonica wrote...

Do you all think this is something that Maric would have agreed to, so early in the story? I know they needed her help, but giving Flemeth Ferelden's eldest potential heir is pretty serious.


The thing is we don't know what was going on in that hut. I don't remember the exact details but at the time, Loghain and Maric were pretty much on the run with little support and get dumped at Flemeth's hut. They were in rather dire straits, so who knows what Maric would have potentially agreed to in that hut. I think it was mentioned that Flemeth and Maric were basically in there all night....so yeah.

I guess at the time, Maric's victory over the Orlesians wasn't a guarantee- given that uncertainty, maybe he agreed to give Flemeth a go?:sick: Lets hope she shapeshifted into something pleasant for poor Maric's sake...

Swoo wrote...

The problem is if you have that level of detail capable of showcasing it, then there is absolutely no reason not to show them off. I'm sure the game looks better than the screenshots (because anything post 2002 can  easily say that), but I doubt it's going to be as 'striking' and  super-hot' as they keep trumpeting. If it was, we would have seen it.


Yeah, I don't really get the logic in hyping everything up and then releasing those screens. I wish someone would ask Zeschuk that question. Its possible that they're working on things to polish it up and add some visual spice but maybe its not working well in the engine yet? I beleive they usually do that sort of visual polish closer to the end once they've got the everything else working well enough.

But supposedly they'll be showing DA2 off at Comic Con this week, so unless its just a video or something people should be able to see how it looks in motion.

tmp7704 wrote..

I can buy that and while the new look can be hit or miss with people it does  appear different enough. Doesn't really help the weak technology part,  though (and also makes it easier to believe there won't be much of  change coming in this area)


If thats what they meant, they'll get scewered with reviews for DA2- IMO, if you look at the concept art for Origins, its all fairly unique and striking. The problem was that very little of that unique visual look translated into the game- things got dumbed down visually seemingly because the technology couldn't keep up. And comparing some of the concept art for DA2 with the ingame shots, it looks like it has much of the same problems as Origins.

Hopefully once people see it later this week at Comic con, we'll have some reports on how its actually looking. Maybe it just looks horrible in screenshots but looks much better in motion? Time will tell...

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:46 .


#5469
Swoo

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tmp7704 wrote...

Swoo wrote...

The problem is if you have that level of detail capable of showcasing it, then there is absolutely no reason not to show them off. I'm sure the game looks better than the screenshots (because anything post 2002 can easily say that), but I doubt it's going to be as 'striking' and 'super-hot' as they keep trumpeting. If it was, we would have seen it.

Reading that Game Informer article, it'd appear when they were talking about "super hot" graphics they didn't really meant technological prowess


No, they meant it technologically. No shot at you at all Tmp, but when you say something looks 'super hot', you are talking about the quality of in-game graphics. 'Striking' may give them a little semantic leeway as you could make the argument about an overall cohesive look, but it was pretty obvious that they are blowing PR smoke towards the detractors from Origins who said the game's graphics were just average and they are still sticking to the company line.

In the end, the graphics aren't going to be a deal to me as long as they quit making a big deal about them. When you go on and on about how amazing they are, and then you put out shoddy quality, I'll remark on it. It won't change if I will buy or won't buy a game though unless it's just really, really bad (as pertaining to a RPG.)

Their stance just confuses me. If you really had a superior-engine floating around in-house, you would be using those instead of throwing up pitiful Alpha quality screens that you pull down to doctor up before reuploading. So you either have the worst PR in the world, or you are full of it. I don't know which is worse.

I do hope they have been hoarding all kinds of amazing, jaw-dropping information because as it stands right now DA2 has been underwhelming from all facets.

#5470
phaonica

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Addai67 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Ahh.. but think of the drama! If Flemeth is your mother, you can team up with your sis Morrigan and kill Flemeth all over again! And Alistair would be your half bro! And you'd have a claim to the Ferelden throne! Drama! Suspense!


You mean MIKE HAWKE! has a shot at being KING HAWKE!??

That. Is. Awesome.  And solves the heir problem.

I was figuring they would be doing some more reveals at Comic Con.  What I really want to hear is that Bethesda is coming out with a new Elder Scrolls soon.


Do you all think this is something that Maric would have agreed to, so early in the story? I know they needed her help, but giving Flemeth Ferelden's eldest potential heir is pretty serious.


Can only speak for myself, but I'm being completely facetious.  The idea of Flemeth raping Maric is not something I even want to contemplate.  :sick::sick::sick:


Yeah, I'm with you there, but IMO, it's not *so* squick that there's no way Bioware would allow it as part of the lore. Or maybe it is, it's hard for me to tell. I don't know how "dark" is too dark for Bioware and their target audience (or if such a scenario would even be considered dark, and not just squick).

#5471
tmp7704

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Swoo wrote...

No, they meant it technologically. No shot at you at all Tmp, but when you say something looks 'super hot', you are talking about the quality of in-game graphics. 'Striking' may give them a little semantic leeway as you could make the argument about an overall cohesive look, but it was pretty obvious that they are blowing PR smoke towards the detractors from Origins who said the game's graphics were just average and they are still sticking to the company line.

I get what you mean and i actually read their initial comments about going to make things look "super hot" in the same way -- that they meant technology. However, the GI article is also pretty clearly worded:

Posted Image

note how they are talking how they want to "hot-rod the art". Whether that's change of goalposts on their part or that's what they meant from the very beginning, that way it's put makes me think their idea of "making it super hot" and to "hot rod" things is one and the same. If just because there is no examples whatsoever there about making things "super hot" as far as technology is concerned, too. But it's instead all about art direction.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:01 .


#5472
phaonica

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Brockololly wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Do you all think this is something that Maric would have agreed to, so early in the story? I know they needed her help, but giving Flemeth Ferelden's eldest potential heir is pretty serious.


The thing is we don't know what was going on in that hut. I don't remember the exact details but at the time, Loghain and Maric were pretty much on the run with little support and get dumped at Flemeth's hut. They were in rather dire straits, so who knows what Maric would have potentially agreed to in that hut. I think it was mentioned that Flemeth and Maric were basically in there all night....so yeah.

I guess at the time, Maric's victory over the Orlesians wasn't a guarantee- given that uncertainty, maybe he agreed to give Flemeth a go?:sick: Lets hope she shapeshifted into something pleasant for poor Maric's sake...


Perhaps so. I guess if your choice, as Maric, is possibly die in the forest and bascially hand Ferelden to the Orlesians, or survive with the danger of giving an apostate power over Ferelden via a Theirin heir... I suppose you choose the most immediate threat?

#5473
Terra_Ex

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It's late, I'm tired and haven't had time to fully catch up with the last few pages so I'm probably ramble incoherently (as usual)...

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

I really think this mosaic approach will backfire.  I know that I've been waiting for the dev team to get their act together and come up with a  DLC that actually feels like more of what I love.  Each time it doesn't happen, I've told myself "next time they'll do better," or else, "it's just the DLCs, the sequel will be better."  I do like the DA world and its lore, but it's not nearly as fully realized or rich as Middle Earth, for example.  You can see it with the Dalish, where the lore is stretched thin.  So to pin so much on people being in love with the world...  I dunno.


Yeah, if they took a more BG style approach the mosaic style of telling the story of the world could be ok. But I think they just left too much wide open and unanswered with Origins and Awakening. Maybe they close some stuff off with future DLC or an ex-pack but based on the exitsing DLC and Awakening, I'm not optimistic.

I was playing Leli's song earlier and I was feeling it, for the duration there was a certain nostalgia. I think they did recapture the essence of Origins there, though it was blended with the non too subtle attempt to condition us to the upcoming shift to the paraphrasing approach - having Leli say something totally different to what was on screen took a bit of getting used to. If its a sign of things to come, I'll be a happy guy... *is slightly tempted to convert to the Leli-fandom*

I don't think all the changes are necessarily negative and I really don't care about graphics so long as the writing remains at a high standard - my favourite rpgs are far from super-hot but graphics do not make the game. Since we're talking about changes, I was concerned around the time Awakening came out that the extensive in-camp exposition was decried as the work of satan so I'm not sure how DA2's system will fit, bearing in mind we're getting the wheel and apparently a blend between DA:O and Awakening's dialogue systems. In ME2, I can't say I ever really felt as close to the characters as I did in DA, Shepard "popped in" for a quick chat once in a while but that was it. I hope a similarly connection can be forged with DA2's companions since we seem to be making all sorts of concessions to those who with limited attention spans.

And yeah, encountering Flemeth (and others) as a new PC will be strange, you the player have knowledge of and a connection to the returning characters yet the new PC does not, as a player its pretty odd to adapt to. It works for fan-service in the JRPG realm, but when you've got complex and twisting webs of plots and emotional investment I'm not sure its the best idea. You could probably get away with it for Flemeth moreso than Morrigan imo.


Brockololly wrote...
If thats what they meant, they'll get scewered with reviews for
DA2- IMO, if you look at the concept art for Origins, its all fairly
unique and striking. The problem was that very little of that unique
visual look translated into the game- things got dumbed down visually
seemingly because the technology couldn't keep up. And comparing some of
the concept art for DA2 with the ingame shots, it looks like it has
much of the same problems as Origins.

Hopefully once people see
it later this week at Comic con, we'll have some reports on how its
actually looking. Maybe it just looks horrible in screenshots but looks
much better in motion? Time will tell...


Indeed Brock, if I could see even a hint of the DA2 concept art direction in DA2's current aesthetic I'd be happy, but I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I don't have the eye for it, but I'm not seeing a radical departure from DA:O based on these screens, it's become slightly more stylised but little else...

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 17 juillet 2010 - 11:01 .


#5474
phaonica

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I was taking a look at this page http://www.gamespot....9466/index.html that shows some comparison shots between the PC version of Origins and compares to the XBox and PS3 versions of Origins. Even in just the first comparison, you can see a major difference between the console and the PC graphics. For example, look how angular and jagged Cousland's shield is in that first comparison on the consoles, and how nice and round it is on the PC version. It looks like this is the reason they're going for a more simple and angular art style, because if the shield was *supposed* to be jagged and less detailed in the first place, you couldn't say that the console graphics were inferior to the PCs graphics.

#5475
phaonica

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Terra_Ex wrote...

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Hey, I recognize this fic from the Zevran thread a few days ago!

don't mind me, i'm being silly Posted Image