16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

Can only speak for myself, but I'm being completely facetious.  The idea of Flemeth raping Maric is not something I even want to contemplate.  :sick:

The scary thing about that is Flemeth in The Stolen Throne is waaaaay creepier than the in game Flemeth. In the book, Flemeth has dead bodies strung up all around her hut, human skulls line the path to her hut and she controls the trees surrounding the hut. She also supposedly has crazy white hair in the book, but in the game she has gray hair.

I do wonder if we'll ever find out what sort of promise Flemeth wanted out of Maric....

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Can only speak for myself, but I'm being completely facetious.  The idea of Flemeth raping Maric is not something I even want to contemplate.  :sick:

The scary thing about that is Flemeth in The Stolen Throne is waaaaay creepier than the in game Flemeth. In the book, Flemeth has dead bodies strung up all around her hut, human skulls line the path to her hut and she controls the trees surrounding the hut. She also supposedly has crazy white hair in the book, but in the game she has gray hair.

I do wonder if we'll ever find out what sort of promise Flemeth wanted out of Maric....

I would *love* to know. It's one of my favorite game mysteries. Since Flemeth is returning in DA2, I hope it comes up.

[GardenSnake]

About the graphics, I'm positive that by the time the game comes out, they'll have much more polish than they do now. That's a given for games nowadays. But I'm still sceptical, Swoo did point out that if they had something better to show graphics wise, there's no excuse not to. Gaider saying that what he was looking at was striking could have just been more PR talk, at the end of the day he does want us to get excited and play something he worked on right?



How's THIS for baseless speculation: The game is actually a dream the Warden is having, and Flemeth is the architect of the dream. She goes in there and through Hawke she intends to search inside the Warden's subconscious for any clues as to what Morrigan is planning to do with the OGB. Just like in Inception!!!!



I urge everyone to see it BTW, it made me into a Nolan believer. He did good stuff with Batman but starting from sratch like this is incredible. Its got something for everyone. Good way to get away from those DA2 blues. And no, I'm not being paid by WB to say this. If I was I'd probably be a lot more wealthy than I actually am and I'd try throwing some money at Bioware in an attempt to 'persuade' them to make a direct sequal to Origins.



Then I'd remember that they were backed by EA and shake my fist in the air like a grumpy old man.

[Brockololly]

Terra_Ex wrote...
Indeed Brock, if I could see even a hint of the DA2 concept art direction in DA2's current aesthetic I'd be happy, but I'm just not seeing it. Maybe I don't have the eye for it, but I'm not seeing a radical departure from DA:O based on these screens, it's become slightly more stylised but little else...

I'd agree- honestly I was really worried they were going to take a really, really drastic shift in the visuals- going cel shaded or something crazy like that. It seems like they're pretty much keeping the semi-realistic look (Hawke and Bethany look pretty good- they don't have that plastic-y look on their skin), but just sort of redesigning anything thats too much like Lord of the Rings. Hence the darkspawn looking more like zombies rather than orcs or goblins. I've said it before, I'm just worried how already existing elements like Lothering or characters like Morrigan will look in this visual style. Or for that matter what Flemeth in her human form will look like.

phaonica wrote...

I was taking a look at this page http://www.gamespot....9466/index.html that shows some comparison shots between the PC version of Origins and  compares to the XBox and PS3 versions of Origins. Even in just the first comparison, you can see a major difference between the console and the PC graphics. For example, look how angular and jagged Cousland's shield is in that first comparison on the consoles, and how  nice and round it   is on the PC version. It looks like this is the reason they're going for a more simple and angular art style, because if the shield was  *supposed* to be jagged and less detailed in the first place, you  couldn't saythat the console graphics were inferior to the PCs graphics.

In looking at those, the big thing I notice is how crummy the textures look as well as how washed out the colors look. Given the new art style's emphasis on "stripping it down to the essentials" to have a more "elemental" look, that seems like code for basic shapes and avoiding any complex textures so the consoles can cope. I really hope the screens were for the consoles though, because the textures still looked like garbage in the screens released so far.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:34 .

[Brockololly]

GardenSnake wrote...

How's THIS for baseless speculation: The game is actually a dream the Warden is having, and Flemeth is the architect of the dream. She goes in there and through Hawke she intends to search inside the Warden's subconscious for any clues as to what Morrigan is planning to do with the OGB. Just like in Inception!!!!

I urge everyone to see it BTW, it made me into a Nolan believer. He did good stuff with Batman but starting from sratch like this is incredible. Its got something for everyone. Good way to get away from those DA2 blues. And no, I'm not being paid by WB to say this. If I was I'd probably be a lot more wealthy than I actually am and I'd try throwing some money at Bioware in an attempt to 'persuade' them to make a direct sequal to Origins.
 

BAAAAH! I'm dying to see Inception- I've loved all of Nolan's movies so far and have heard good things about Inception. Actually, when thinking about the narrative structure of DA2, I was thinking its kind of like The Prestige, with the narrative taking place in the present day then flashing back to the past in little episodes building up to the present day.

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

phaonica wrote...

I was taking a look at this page http://www.gamespot....9466/index.html that shows some comparison shots between the PC version of Origins and  compares to the XBox and PS3 versions of Origins. Even in just the first comparison, you can see a major difference between the console and the PC graphics. For example, look how angular and jagged Cousland's shield is in that first comparison on the consoles, and how  nice and round it   is on the PC version. It looks like this is the reason they're going for a more simple and angular art style, because if the shield was  *supposed* to be jagged and less detailed in the first place, you  couldn't saythat the console graphics were inferior to the PCs graphics.

In looking at those, the big thing I notice is how crummy the textures look as well as how washed out the colors look. Given the new art style's emphasis on "stripping it down to the essentials" to have a more "elemental" look, that seems like code for basic shapes and avoiding any complex textures so the consoles can cope. I really hope the screens were for the consoles though, because the textures still looked like garbage in the screens released so far.

I remember reading somewhere that Origins was made for the PC first and then ported to the console. Perhaps where the art is concerned at least, they're trying to make it look as good as they can on the consoles, then porting it up to the PC, this time. Although, I really thought that the XBox and PS3 were more powerful graphically than that. Those comparison shots kind of surprise me, if the consoles aren't capable of textures that detailed or models that are less angular...

Modifié par phaonica, 17 juillet 2010 - 03:47 .

[GardenSnake]

phaonica wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

phaonica wrote...

I was taking a look at this page http://www.gamespot....9466/index.html that shows some comparison shots between the PC version of Origins and  compares to the XBox and PS3 versions of Origins. Even in just the first comparison, you can see a major difference between the console and the PC graphics. For example, look how angular and jagged Cousland's shield is in that first comparison on the consoles, and how  nice and round it   is on the PC version. It looks like this is the reason they're going for a more simple and angular art style, because if the shield was  *supposed* to be jagged and less detailed in the first place, you  couldn't saythat the console graphics were inferior to the PCs graphics.

In looking at those, the big thing I notice is how crummy the textures look as well as how washed out the colors look. Given the new art style's emphasis on "stripping it down to the essentials" to have a more "elemental" look, that seems like code for basic shapes and avoiding any complex textures so the consoles can cope. I really hope the screens were for the consoles though, because the textures still looked like garbage in the screens released so far.

I remember reading somewhere that Origins was made for the PC first and then ported to the console. Perhaps where the art is concerned at least, they're trying to make it look as good as they can on the consoles, then porting it up to the PC, this time. Although, I really thought that the XBox and PS3 were more powerful graphically than that. Those comparison shots kind of surprise me, if the consoles aren't capable of textures that detailed or models that are less angular...

I own both a ps3 and 360 and I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that the ps3 can definately handle almost anything a PC can. ALMOST anything mind you. I'd stop for five minutes at a time to stare at the gorgeous vistas and details in the characters and environments in Uncharted 2. I don't know what engine Naughty Dog used for the game, but let me tell you, my eyes couldn't believe they were looking at a video game. It was that good. And Heavy Rain? The characters look creepily realistic, in a video game-y sort of way. You can make out the individual pores on their faces. Again, I don't know what engine the game was running on. I looked at the comparison pictures you linked and I must say that I couldn't see that big of a difference between the visuals on the pc and ps3.

And this is coming from a guy who hasn't touched his ps3 for a few months. The console that I played Origins on, the 360, ended up getting the really short end of the stick graphics wise. I was really surprised to see how much detail there was on Nan's colar type thing on the PC version compared to the pixelated mess that it was on 360. Just goes to show you how much graphics matter to me, not very much. Its all about the story and gameplay, but nice graphics never hurt anybody.

And I came across an interesting thread in the DA2 forums (yes, I did manage to wade through the cesspool of rabid fanboys) with a great discussion topic. Since Hawke has been shown as this macho spartan type of man (just like Shepard), does that mean that the writers are going to follow in ME's footsteps and not include gay romances? Not trying to derail the thread or anything, but its an interesting dilemma.

Modifié par GardenSnake, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:26 .

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...
I remember reading somewhere that Origins was made for the PC first and then ported to the console. Perhaps where the art is concerned at least, they're trying to make it look as good as they can on the consoles, then porting it up to the PC, this time. Although, I really thought that the XBox and PS3 were more powerful graphically than that. Those comparison shots kind of surprise me, if the consoles aren't capable of textures that detailed or models that are less angular...

Yeah, Origins was built from the ground up for the PC then ported over to the consoles. As far as "porting up" from the consoles to PC for DA2, the problem as I see it is that whenever a company does that, they never play to the PC's strengths, both visually with graphics but as far as overall game design and interface too. With a PC there are strengths like more memory and hard drives that can make for a better game but with consoles like a 360, they don't all have hard drives and have far less memory to deal with textures and such.

Its like having a Super Nintendo and a Playstation 3- with Origins they essentially designed a PS3 game and tried to squeeze it down in to a Super Nintendo (the consoles). With DA2 its like designing it with all the limitations of a Super Nintendo in mind and then transferring that to a PS3 (PC)- it will no doubt work fine on the PC, but you'll be stuck with features limited by the older technology of the consoles. So unless BioWare puts the extra effort into the PC version, DA2 will be stricken with consolitis. 

[Brockololly]

GardenSnake wrote...
I own both a ps3 and 360 and I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that the ps3 can definately handle almost anything a PC can. ALMOST anything mind you. I'd stop for five minutes at a time to stare at the gorgeous vistas and details in the characters and environments in Uncharted 2. I don't know what engine Naughty Dog used for the game, but let me tell you, my eyes couldn't believe they were looking at a video game. It was that good. And Heavy Rain? The characters look creepily realistic, in a video game-y sort of way. You can make out the individual pores on their faces. Again, I don't know what engine the game was running on. I looked at the comparison pictures you linked and I must say that I couldn't see that big of a difference between the visuals on the pc and ps3. 

From my understanding, the PS3 is a **** to program for, but it has powerful hardware and takes time to figure it out. Whereas the programing something for the 360 is similar to programming for a PC game. But obviously if you're a developer like Naughty Dog only doing PS3 and not worrying about multiplatform things, of course they'll be able to make it look great.

Its the same idea as Origins on the PC- its the best looking version because it was designed with from the ground up on the PC while the console ports were only handled once the PC version was all done. 

GardenSnake wrote...
And I came across an interesting thread in the DA2 forums (yes, I did manage to wade through the cesspool of rabid fanboys) with a great discussion topic. Since Hawke has been shown as this macho spartan type of man (just like Shepard), does that mean that the writers are going to follow in ME's footsteps and not include gay romances? Not trying to derail the thread or anything, but its an interesting dilemma.

The writers have said that Hawke is not nearly as defined a character as Shepard is. And I'd trust that the writers would put homosexual or bisexual romance options in the game as pretty much every Gaider game has had them. For all the flak he may get, I think Gaider is one of BioWare's better writers and the DA writing team is IMO, far better than the ME team overall. But as to what kind of romances will be in the game, I'd guess that sort of decision isn't even fully in the writers' hands but left up to the lead designers mostly too.

[Addai]

Brockololly wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Can only speak for myself, but I'm being completely facetious.  The idea of Flemeth raping Maric is not something I even want to contemplate.  :sick:

The scary thing about that is Flemeth in The Stolen Throne is waaaaay creepier than the in game Flemeth. In the book, Flemeth has dead bodies strung up all around her hut, human skulls line the path to her hut and she controls the trees surrounding the hut. She also supposedly has crazy white hair in the book, but in the game she has gray hair.

I do wonder if we'll ever find out what sort of promise Flemeth wanted out of Maric....

Yes, that scene from TST along with this painting inspired a story I wrote.  Origins Flemeth is cuddly in comparison.

[Addai]

Terra_Ex wrote...

I was playing Leli's song earlier and I was feeling it, for the duration there was a certain nostalgia. I think they did recapture the essence of Origins there, though it was blended with the non too subtle attempt to condition us to the upcoming shift to the paraphrasing approach - having Leli say something totally different to what was on screen took a bit of getting used to. If its a sign of things to come, I'll be a happy guy... *is slightly tempted to convert to the Leli-fandom*

It's a bummer that I have such an allergy against Leliana, so the "conditioning" is lost on me.  If it was a Morrigan DLC, different story.

[phaonica]

GardenSnake wrote...

I own both a ps3 and 360 and I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that the ps3 can definately handle almost anything a PC can. ALMOST anything mind you. I'd stop for five minutes at a time to stare at the gorgeous vistas and details in the characters and environments in Uncharted 2. I don't know what engine Naughty Dog used for the game, but let me tell you, my eyes couldn't believe they were looking at a video game. It was that good. And Heavy Rain? The characters look creepily realistic, in a video game-y sort of way. You can make out the individual pores on their faces. Again, I don't know what engine the game was running on. I looked at the comparison pictures you linked and I must say that I couldn't see that big of a difference between the visuals on the pc and ps3.

Yeah, that's why those screenshots kind of surprised me. I was sure that the consoles are capable of much more, graphically. It makes me think that if Dragon Age couldn't be suffering from artistic consolitis as much as they imply, when defending the shift in art style.

PS3 graphics:

[adneate]

GardenSnake wrote...

I own both a ps3 and 360 and I can, without a doubt in my mind, say that the ps3 can definately handle almost anything a PC can. ALMOST anything mind you. I'd stop for five minutes at a time to stare at the gorgeous vistas and details in the characters and environments in Uncharted 2. I don't know what engine Naughty Dog used for the game, but let me tell you, my eyes couldn't believe they were looking at a video game. It was that good. And Heavy Rain? The characters look creepily realistic, in a video game-y sort of way. You can make out the individual pores on their faces. Again, I don't know what engine the game was running on. I looked at the comparison pictures you linked and I must say that I couldn't see that big of a difference between the visuals on the pc and ps3.

Well no actually. The PS3 is still held back by memory restrictions in addition to the restrictions of it's poorly chosen processor. Once again there is a HUGE difference between the amount of memory the average PC has and the amount of memory a PS3 has. The Average PC has between 2GB and 4 GB of system memory with an average of 512 MB of dedicated video memory the PS3 has only 256MB of each. A PC's central processing unit is designed around delivering raw number crunching power and most have at least 2 independent cores. The Cell is poorly suited for gaming since it primarily is designed for linked processing not raw power like say an Intel Core 2 Quad, the linked systems are quite powerful but alone they are on the weak side. Both consoles are pretty equal in terms of power, and they are essentially PCs from a few years ago the PS3 being equipped with a nVidia GeForce 7800 and the 360 with a ATI Radeon X1900 two cards that are pretty much identical at the time of their release for the PC. There's nothing a PS3 can do that a 360 can't without the proper optimization, the PS3 is a bit better at high res textures since it's nVidia card has a little more bite but the 360's processor is much better suited to gaming. A game like Crysis would choke both machines and the Dragone Age High-Resolution textures packs for the PC would be too much for either machine to handle, again with consoles it's all about recognizing their strengths and having the software properly optimized. In terms of Hardware they're pretty much identical.

Modifié par adneate, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:02 .

[phaonica]

adneate wrote...

 the Dragone Age High-Resolution textures packs for the PC would be too much for either machine to handle, again with consoles it's all about recognizing their strengths and having the software properly optimized. In terms of Hardware they're pretty much identical.

In the screenshots from the PS3  that I posted above, are those graphics achieved without high-resolution textures?

[adneate]

phaonica wrote...

In the screenshots from the PS3  that I posted above, are those graphics achieved without high-resolution textures?

It's always a trade off between texture size, environment size and objects on screen. In those screenshots it looks like they went for texture size but reduced the size of the playable rendered area and the number of rendered objects on screen. In addition to no anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering, both which consume huge amounts of VRAM. It's not to say consoles can't do High Resolution textures because they can, however you couldn't double the textures in Dragon Age and still have an area like the Denerim Marketplace since it's too big with too much stuff in it. With a console you have X amount of RAM all the time, there is no guess work so you can sit down and figure out how to get the most out of every last byte. A clever designer can find ways to make the rendered area smaller but add in a large pre-rendered backdrop, like say in Uncharted 2 which has lots of tiny rendered areas but huge pre-rendered backdrops so the player feels like the area is bigger and more impressive than it really is.

Edit: The top image is totally pre-rendered though.

That's in game and once again small area and no anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering.

Modifié par adneate, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:29 .

[phaonica]

adneate wrote...

phaonica wrote...

In the screenshots from the PS3  that I posted above, are those graphics achieved without high-resolution textures?

It's always a trade off between texture size, environment size and objects on screen. In those screenshots it looks like they went for texture size but reduced the size of the playable rendered area and the number of rendered objects on screen. In addition to no anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering, both which consume huge amounts of VRAM. It's not to say consoles can't do High Resolution textures because they can, however you couldn't double the textures in Dragon Age and still have an area like the Denerim Marketplace since it's too big with too much stuff in it. With a console you have X amount of RAM all the time, there is no guess work so you can sit down and figure out how to get the most out of every last byte. A clever designer can find ways to make the rendered area smaller but add in a large pre-rendered backdrop, like say in Uncharted 2 which has lots of tiny rendered areas but huge pre-rendered backdrops so the player feels like the area is bigger and more impressive than it really is.

Edit: The top image is totally pre-rendered though.

That's in game and once again small area and no anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering.

I see what you mean about the clever use of small rendered areas and pre-rendered backdops. And look at that, the ground is total flat with no anisotropic filtering and probably no one cares.  Well, I don't know what Bioware is thinking, but again, I was never drawn to Origins for the graphics. I tried it because it was a first person adventure, I stayed because the dialog was well-written and the voice acting was good, and I'm still here because the story, characters, and gameplay were engaging. The hype gets on my nerves, but that's the way things go.

[blademaster7]

Patch coming out on Monday...

•    Fixed an issue that would cause incorrect characters to
occasionally appear in Morrigan's ritual.

Lol... that's the one with Loghain and a femWarden... I wonder how did they picked that one up. Have they been following the research? I submitted about a hundred bugs in this thread and they only fixed one. Sigh...

[bl00dsh0t]

Hehe are we going for the "why consoles are holding us back" discussion, Im in!!



It is as adneate says, the hardware in the consoles is now a staggering 4 years and 5 years old respecitively. My gamin rig has a x1900xt in it and it still outdoes both in multiplatform titles, and that bugger is 4 years old itself. The reason why some games wind up looking pretty good on the ps3 is because they are made exclusively for the ps3. When you only have 1 set of hardware to design for it leaves a lot more room for optimisation than when you have to design for first the two consoles and then the infinite number of permutations of the pc.



Still what annoys me most is that if you look at the graphics level of games for the pc since the release of the next gen consoles is that it has stagnated except for in a few pc exclusive titles. That we can sadly blame on these obnoxious turds that are the consoles, we have quite literally not had a decent jump in gaming graphics since crysis ffs... and that came 2007.



Ahh well on the more positive note it has allowed gamers to not have to be too brutal with pc upgrades, I mean my 4yr old card is only really becoming fully obsolete for 1280*1024 gaming now. Why did i go buy a 24inch screen now, whyyyyyy xD



We can just sit here and hope that the pc version gets the pollish it deserves and that the published screens are from the 360 version and that we get better details on the pc. The texture resolution on the screens with the darkspawn do seem to hint that this is the case so we might not have to **** in our pants just yet graphics wise.

[Terra_Ex]

phaonica wrote...
Hey, I recognize this fic from the
Zevran thread a few days ago!

don't mind me, i'm being silly ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png

lol I dunno what happened there

blademaster7 wrote...

Patch coming out on Monday...

•    Fixed an issue that would cause incorrect characters to
occasionally appear in Morrigan's ritual.

Lol... that's the one with Loghain and a femWarden... I wonder how did they picked that one up. Have they been following the research? I submitted about a hundred bugs in this thread and they only fixed one. Sigh...

Well, I will be pleased when the thing is finally released. They should fix the rest of the morri issues while they're at it imo.

On a positive note maybe Awakening will be somewhat playable.

Brockololly wrote...
The writers have said that Hawke is not
nearly as defined a character as Shepard is. And I'd trust that the
writers would put homosexual or bisexual romance options in the game as
pretty much every Gaider game has had them. For all the flak he may get,
I think Gaider is one of BioWare's better writers and the DA writing
team is IMO, far better than the ME team overall. But as to what kind of
romances will be in the game, I'd guess that sort of decision isn't
even fully in the writers' hands but left up to the lead designers
mostly too.

Completely agree, the DA writers completely eclipse ME's (even though Gaider does torture us... repeatedly) but for
me at least fantasy will always be more interesting and endearing than sci-fi. My femShep was disappointed by her romance options in ME2, but there was a lot of scope for amping things up so she got over it.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 17 juillet 2010 - 11:38 .

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, I will be pleased when the thing is finally released. They should fix the rest of the morri issues while they're at it imo.

I was scratching my head trying to figure out why did they bother with a dialogue fix. There are hundreds of errors in the dialogue of all the companions. Four patches and now they fixed ONE.

But then I remember the flags and the import from DAO to DA2. That particular bug can mess up the DR flag --particularly, it defines who sleeps with Morrigan. I (want to) believe that the reason they handpicked one bug and fixed it, is because it must have something to do with DA2.

The DR is getting imported, no doubt. But to have recognition of who did it(and maybe hear about your relationship with Morri with the love/friendly flags) is even better.

Or maybe they will pull another Awakening and your save is pretty much useless.

You mentioned before that some of the flags regarding Flemeth are a bit strange. Do you think they can mess up the importation?

Terra_Ex wrote...

On a positive note maybe Awakening will be somewhat playable.

I don't see my self playing that game again. But I want my Leliana letter damnit!

[MoSa09]

On the issue of Flemeths rather young appearance in the artworks that has fueled so many wild speculation (she possessed another body, possessed Morrigan, she is Morrigan and so forth), Gaider said something i wanted to share that might ease that heated debate a bit. Depending, of course, how much different from the artwork the in-game Flemeth will look like.

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, you might have to look closely
but her face is not that young. And while the concept art shows her as
being skinnier than an underwear model the in-game model is a bit more
reasonable on that front. Perhaps we'll get you an in-game shot at some
point so you can see for yourself.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

You can find the whole post here

[ximena]

Brockololly wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

How's THIS for baseless speculation: The game is actually a dream the Warden is having, and Flemeth is the architect of the dream. She goes in there and through Hawke she intends to search inside the Warden's subconscious for any clues as to what Morrigan is planning to do with the OGB. Just like in Inception!!!!

I urge everyone to see it BTW, it made me into a Nolan believer. He did good stuff with Batman but starting from sratch like this is incredible. Its got something for everyone. Good way to get away from those DA2 blues. And no, I'm not being paid by WB to say this. If I was I'd probably be a lot more wealthy than I actually am and I'd try throwing some money at Bioware in an attempt to 'persuade' them to make a direct sequal to Origins.
 

BAAAAH! I'm dying to see Inception- I've loved all of Nolan's movies so far and have heard good things about Inception. Actually, when thinking about the narrative structure of DA2, I was thinking its kind of like The Prestige, with the narrative taking place in the present day then flashing back to the past in little episodes building up to the present day.

@GardenSnake

You should totally watch Memento if you haven't.



@Flemeth being creepy

I remember one of the promotional comics Bioware released in their site also illustrated that Flemeth controlled some sylvans. (Well, they looked like Sylvans).

[blademaster7]

The more I think about it, the more I believe that Flemeth approaches Hawke before you(as the Warden) finish the Circle treaty. Why would she have an old body otherwise?

Think about it.

- The Warden goes of to recruit allies and Hawke flees Lothering.

- During the Circle quest Flemeth(in her old body) meets with Hawke

- The Warden gives the grimoire to Morrigan

- Flemeth returns to her hut

- The Warden goes back to the hut and kicks her ass

- Back to the camp and Morrigan is juggling flaming knives while dancing

Modifié par blademaster7, 17 juillet 2010 - 12:50 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I wish there was an option to actually yell:

WHY DIDNT YOU SODDING TELL ME YOUR MOTHER CAN BECOME A DRAGON!



I may have missed it but I dont remeber seeing anything like that.

[MoSa09]

I do wonder: they said we would get to know some things that happened during Origins from a different point of view.



It felt somewhat strange that Flemeth would hand out her Grimoire to you willingly. Maybe one of the things we get to know is what Flemeth is doing all the time, while the Warden is running around with her daughter, and why hs no issues to hand out that all-so-powerful-grimoire to her daughter who wants to kill her. So after DA 2 we know the whole picture of what Flemeth did all the time when she did not rescue us or got slain by us