16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Shade of Wolf]

blademaster7 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Hawke is the product of Flemeth and Maric's night in the hut from The Stolen Throne....!!!!!

So... FemHawke is a Witch of the Wilds?

What does that make MaleHawke? The Wizard of the Wilds?

A guy can be a witch too; it's not gender specific.

[Herr Uhl]

blademaster7 wrote...

- Back to the camp and Morrigan is juggling flaming knives while dancing

Is it an erotic dance or a silly dance. This is important.

ximena wrote...

@Flemeth being creepy

I remember one of the promotional comics Bioware released in their site also illustrated that Flemeth controlled some sylvans. (Well, they looked like Sylvans).

Yes, in the adventures of Ser Redshirt and Ser Buckethead.

[Brockololly]

blademaster7 wrote...

You mentioned before that some of the flags regarding Flemeth are a bit strange. Do you think they can mess up the importation?

The curious thing about importing our saves was something brought up in the GI article. Darrah mentioned that they want the ability to import saves between platforms- so going 360DAO to PCDA2 or whatever. Which makes me think that maybe the flags and stuff might not matter specifically, but maybe they have some sort of import feature through the Social Networks site?

MoSa09 wrote...

On the issue of Flemeths rather young appearance in the artworks that has fueled so many wild speculation (she possessed another body, possessed Morrigan, she is Morrigan and so forth), Gaider said something i wanted to share that might ease that heated debate a bit. Depending, of course, how much different from the artwork the in-game Flemeth will look like.

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, you might have to look closely but her face is not that young. And while the concept art shows her as  being
skinnier than an underwear model the in-game model is a bit more reasonableon that front. Perhaps we'll get you an in-game shot at some point  so you can see for yourself.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

See, I'm still wondering though- in the concept art, while looking kind of hotter, Flemeth still looks old. And based on Gaider's comments, she looks old in the game too. My question is whether or not her whole metal spikey tiara, dragon horn white hair, armor and generally sexier looking outfit is just the redesign of Flemeth for DA2 or is there some sort of in game explanation for the way she looks? I mean, if Origins was done in the same visual style as DA2, when we met Flemeth would she look the way she does in DA2? Is the DA2 design a visual retcon?

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:26 .

[MoSa09]

Brockololly wrote...

See, I'm still wondering though- in the concept art, while looking kind of hotter, Flemeth still looks old. And based on Gaider's comments, she looks old in the game too. My question is whether or not her whole metal spikey tiara, dragon horn white hair, armor and generally sexier looking outfit is just the redesign of Flemeth for DA2 or is there some sort of in game explanation for the way she looks? I mean, if Origins was done in the same visual style as DA2, when we met Flemeth would she look the way she does in DA2? Is the DA2 design a visual retcon?

Okay, here is another thought. We already talked about that maybe DA 2 forces you to side with either Morrigan or Flemeth. What if that decision ultimately implies that Flemeth is in need of another body, and helping her out in the end would mean handing out Morrigan to be possessed. Maybe Flemeth threatening "you get me Morrigan so i might survive or if you refuse i am gonna take Bethany, your sister, instead"

[blademaster7]

Brockololly wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

You mentioned before that some of the flags regarding Flemeth are a bit strange. Do you think they can mess up the importation?

The curious thing about importing our saves was something brought up in the GI article. Darrah mentioned that they want the ability to import saves between platforms- so going 360DAO to PCDA2 or whatever. Which makes me think that maybe the flags and stuff might not matter specifically, but maybe they have some sort of import feature through the Social Networks site?

The 360-PC transfer sounds cool. Really useful if you played DAO on your 360 and now you want to upgrade your PC.

And I'm pretty sure that's the standard Bioware save importation. I even remember Gaider commenting about it. You may hear about events that happened but they won't really affect Hawke since he/she is a new character.

Awakening was pretty bad with this though, so I'm not holding my breath expecting major changes between saves.

[blademaster7]

MoSa09 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

See, I'm still wondering though- in the concept art, while looking kind of hotter, Flemeth still looks old. And based on Gaider's comments, she looks old in the game too. My question is whether or not her whole metal spikey tiara, dragon horn white hair, armor and generally sexier looking outfit is just the redesign of Flemeth for DA2 or is there some sort of in game explanation for the way she looks? I mean, if Origins was done in the same visual style as DA2, when we met Flemeth would she look the way she does in DA2? Is the DA2 design a visual retcon?

Okay, here is another thought. We already talked about that maybe DA 2 forces you to side with either Morrigan or Flemeth. What if that decision ultimately implies that Flemeth is in need of another body, and helping her out in the end would mean handing out Morrigan to be possessed. Maybe Flemeth threatening "you get me Morrigan so i might survive or if you refuse i am gonna take Bethany, your sister, instead"

Gotcha!

I don't know.... The match up doesn't really favor Morrigan. Not everyone likes her and even if you do, when you are roleplaying Hawke(or trying anyway) you aren't really going to sacrifice your sister for a "stranger", right?


PS: Speaking of Bethanny: I can't believe that hottie was in Lothering and she flew under my Warden's radar. <_<

Modifié par blademaster7, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:42 .

[ximena]

Her appearance in the GI cover art certainly looks old to me. Though in the other concept art (the one in the da2 site), the white-haired mage looks younger. I'm leaning into it being a redesign... since that's what they're doing with the darkspawn too.



@MoSa



That would be interesting, but then I'd probably hand her Bethany. Hahaha. I'll still be probably attached more to my warden on my first playthrough.



Setting that aside though, if you stick to Hawke having no ties to Origins NPCs when you RP him/her, that storyline would mean less since Morrigan would have no significance to Hawke. I guess I'm saying that it's depth would then just be felt by the player controlling Hawke. I do not know if I'm making sense. XD

[MoSa09]

blademaster7 wrote...

Gotcha!

I don't know.... The match up doesn't really favor Morrigan. Not everyone likes her and even if you do, when you are roleplaying Hawke(or trying anyway) you aren't really going to sacrifice your sister for a "stranger", right?

I don't know, depending on how much faith the Writers have into their own work.

For the lovers of Morrigan, they have to make Hawke as well as his sister really grow to our heart while at the same time throw some more doubt upon us if Morrigan really loved us or just played with our hearts to get what she wants and therefore get us angry enough to believe she deserves such a fate. To some degree, they already seem to be doing just that.

For the haters of Morrigan, they have to do vice versa. Either implying Flemeth is evil and handing over Morrigan to her would turn her into an unstopable force while Bethany would limit her power and she might be killed forever if forced to possess Bethany. Or they have to add some more appeal to Morrigans character or her fate that some haters might feel pity for her.

If done well, a decision to either sacrifice your own sister for the greater good or spare her to grant an evil woman so much more power she might turn out to be invincible can make a really hard decision.

Modifié par MoSa09, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:49 .

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...

Okay, here is another thought. We already talked about that maybe DA 2 forces you to side with either Morrigan or Flemeth. What if that decision ultimately implies that Flemeth is in need of another body, and helping her out in the end would mean handing out Morrigan to be possessed. Maybe Flemeth threatening "you get me Morrigan so i might survive or if you refuse i am gonna take Bethany, your sister, instead"

Or maybe...Flemeth is Hawke's mother making Morrigan your sister and Bethany isn't really your real sister at all!?
I could see them going with a Samara/Morinth type situation possibly either with Flemeth/Morrigan/Bethany or some combination if the whole body snatching thing comes into play- which it might not, we don't know.

blademaster7 wrote...
Awakening was pretty bad with this though, so I'm not holding my breath expecting major changes between saves.

Yeah, to be honest, even ME2 didn't handle past choices with any sense of weight. I'm guessing that the DR and how you handled Flemeth will be important however. The article does mention the ruler of Ferelden and who killed the Archdemon too as being important. Maybe it comes to a point where Ferelden and the Free Marches are on the brink of war? They are pretty much right next door...

ximena wrote...

Her appearance in the GI cover art certainly looks old to me. Though in the other concept art (the one in the da2 site), the white-haired mage looks younger. I'm leaning into it being a redesign... since that's what they're doing with the darkspawn too.

On the GI cover she looks old and on Matt Rhodes dA version of the concept art, Flemeth looks old too- but not as old as she is described in The Stolen Throne or as old as she is in Origins. I'm really curious to see how the concept art Flemeth translates to the in game model.

ximena wrote...
Setting that aside though, if you stick to Hawke having no ties to Origins NPCs when you RP him/her, that storylinewould mean less since Morrigan would have no significance to Hawke. I guess I'm saying that it's depth would then just be felt by the player controlling Hawke. I do not know if I'm making sense. XD

Totally agree- thats my problem with throwing in a bunch of Origins cameos is that while you the player will get the warm and fuzzies over seeing the old companion, Hawke doesn't know them and neither does the companion. However, if they made Flemeth the mother of Hawke.....that would mean Morrigan is your sister and Alistair your brother.... then you'd have an in game connection to the old Origins characters.....

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juillet 2010 - 01:57 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Why does Hawke have to be tied into Origins so much?



Most likely he wont be since bioware will try and pull in new people and throwing stuff from DA1 at them would just be annoying to people who had no idea what was going on or why they should care about so and so.



I am annoyed that there is no closure for the Warden, but I dont care if Hawke is just some generic nobody with no connections at all.

[ximena]

If Hawke is really a Flemeth-spawn and Morri's long lost brother, then that would indeed pose a conflict for Hawke. But then, is Morrigan really Flemeth's biological daughter? We aren't entirely sure. If this does come into play, what MosA said is important. It's still up to the writers how to make such a choice heavy for Hawke.









Also, I cannot resist.



"Haaaaawke, I am your mooootherrrr." - Flemeth

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ditto with Giggles. I don't want Hawke to be too connected to Origins, lest he replace the Warden more so than he / she already has. I want it to ocus more on the Free Marches and less on Ferelden.

[Giggles_Manically]

Besides with all the talke on Hawke (hehe) he is probably so awsome he just willed himself into existence.



Also replaying ME2 as a total Spetznas Shepard, awsomely renegeade but holy hell the galaxy is going to be a lot emptier when all is said n done. Also the Revenant is beastly.

[ximena]

Oh. We're just tackling the storyline MoSa brought up. I think that path would be heavier if it was more signficant to Hawke because he won't really sacrifice a sister to a stranger (the way I see it this point of time) as blademaster said.



I would rather prefer he does not have any huge ties with Origins as well.

[MoSa09]

ximena wrote...

If Hawke is really a Flemeth-spawn and Morri's long lost brother, then that would indeed pose a conflict for Hawke. But then, is Morrigan really Flemeth's biological daughter? We aren't entirely sure. If this does come into play, what MoSa said is important. It's still up to the writers how to make such a choice heavy for Hawke.




Also, I cannot resist.

"Haaaaawke, I am your mooootherrrr." - Flemeth

that could make for a nice conflict as well. Do you choose the woman you believed to be your sister your whole life and just recently found out she isn't? Or do you choose the woman who is supposed to be your real sister though you don't know for sure and whom you do not know personally?

We only talked about this for half an hour and already came up with a twist that would make it difficult for many. I am sure the writers can come up with something even more intriguing if they really follow this path.

Modifié par MoSa09, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:19 .

[Brockololly]

Ok, so Mary Kirby kind of sort of answered the whole Flemeth question..maybe?

Mary Kirby wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I really want to know if this "new" Flemeth is simply part of the new visual design on everything or if there is some sort of in-game explanation? Given that its concept art though, I believe Gaider posted in a thread saying that the in game model for Flemeth doesn't look quiteas young and hot as the concept art.

Still, I'm curious if this is just a visual retcon, or what?

She's a thousand-year-old abomination, a shapeshifter who, according to legend (and according to the grimoire you give Morrigan) seduces mortal men in order to get herself more daughters. Her daughters are reputed to be able to kill men with fear.  She's both a seductress and a hag. She played up the hag aspect for the Warden, "Oh, never mind me, I'm just a crazy old bat who saved your life! Go on your quest and take my  daughter with you! I'm sure nothing terrible could come from that..."  But just because the Warden only saw her as the hag, doesn't  mean that's all she was...

Hmmm... and then there is the offical DA wiki entry for Flemeth where she takes on various forms in seemingly quick succession- I had somehow missed this before:

“Once there was a great templar, shining and proud, righteous in his faith in the Maker’s will. So proud was he that, upon hearing legends of Flemeth, the Witch of the Wilds, he embarked on a quest to find and  slay her on his own, leaving his home in Redcliffe behind.

On his way to the Korcari Wilds, the templar came to the village of Rossleigh on the western roads. There he spoke to a young woman that  had heard tales of the witch from the Chasind wilder folk. ‘She is a  monster,’ said the woman, ‘terrible in her temper and wild in her  beauty. She is the hand of the cold, the wet, and the dark. Above all these things she is a myth, and not worth any man’s pain to find.’ But  the templar would not heed such hearsay, and so he pressed on.

The templar came to Lothering, where the world gathers at the edge of the Wilds. There he met a woman, a mother that had been telling  her child of the dangers of the great forest. ‘Yes, I know of her,’ said the mother. ‘She is a creature of legend, a cautionary tale of the limits to where man should go. Not even a powerful templar can kill a warning, sir.’ But the templar was sure that the Witch was more than just a symbol, and so he continued his quest.

And then the templar entered the Korcari Wilds, home to the savage Chasind people, and he found a village elder, a cracked and bent old woman who was willing to speak in his language. ‘She steals men’s souls at the end of the green,’ said the crone, ‘where hearts turn to ice and blood runs blue. Even a templar dare not go after her, for the land bends to her will, and that templar’s life will be drawn before hissword.’ But the templar bristled against such doubt of his skill and the Maker’s glory and he charged off to find the witch.

And he reached the end of the green, where the Wilds touch snow and frost, and there he did indeed find a cabin huddled against the wind. And there he found a lovely young woman tending a garden that grew even through the frost, and he approached her to ask after the witch.

‘You have come far, good templar,’ purred the young woman, exotic and dark in her beauty. ‘And it is time that you should rest.’

‘I will rest only when the Witch of the Wild has been killed,’ said the templar, ‘Tell me where she is!’ The templar pointed his sword at the young woman, who smiled warmly as the templar felt a knife enter  his back.

‘I am myth, and warning, and the thief of souls,’ whispered his killer. ‘I am all those things you heard of me, and I was all those people with whom you spoke.’ And the templar doubled over and fell to
his knees, turning to face the voice and finding but a blur. ‘And I am the last thing you will never see.’

The templar’s quest ended there, at the feet of the Witch and her dark daughter. Ever since, all have known never to ask after the Witch of the Wilds, never to seek the one named Flemeth, lest they find her.”

----
“The Witch of the Wilds”, as told by the minstrel Ensuelo in the taverns of Antiva

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:23 .

[MoSa09]

Brockololly wrote...

Ok, so Mary Kirby kind of sort of answered the whole Flemeth question..maybe?

Mary Kirby wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah, I really want to know if this "new" Flemeth is simply part of the new visual design on everything or if there is some sort of in-game explanation? Given that its concept art though, I believe Gaider posted in a thread saying that the in game model for Flemeth doesn't look quiteas young and hot as the concept art.

Still, I'm curious if this is just a visual retcon, or what?

She's a thousand-year-old abomination, a shapeshifter who, according to legend (and according to the grimoire you give Morrigan) seduces mortal men in order to get herself more daughters. Her daughters are reputed to be able to kill men with fear.  She's both a seductress and a hag. She played up the hag aspect for the Warden, "Oh, never mind me, I'm just a crazy old bat who saved your life! Go on your quest and take my  daughter with you! I'm sure nothing terrible could come from that..."  But just because the Warden only saw her as the hag, doesn't  mean that's all she was...

yeah, and that is really the first thing i heard that really got me excited about DA 2. What is Flemeth, why did she send Morrigan along? How many other daughters did she have? Was Morrigan just playing along in the grand big scheme to fool us? Or was she really at odds with her mother? Did we really changed Morrigan, or was this all just Flemeth plan. Did we dealt a blow by slaying her, and did we just played along her plans without even noticing? And what to make out of the story Brock posted? Is this Morrigan, another daughter, or just legend? Flemeth, it seems, is much more than i ever expected her to be, and that one thing really makes me curious and want to play DA 2. Not much, but its a start

Modifié par MoSa09, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:21 .

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...

yeah, and that is really the first thing i heard that really got me excited about DA 2. What is Flemeth, why did she send Morrigan along? How many other daughters did she have? Was Morrigan just playing along in the grand big scheme to fool us? Or was she really at odds with her mother? Did we really changed Morrigan, or was this all just Flemeth plan. Did we dealt a blow by slaying her, and did we just played along her plans without even noticing? And what to make out of the story Brock posted? Is this Morrigan, another daughter, or just legend? Flemeth, it seems, is much more than i ever expected her to be, and that one thing really makes me curious and want to play DA 2. Not much, but its a start

Yeah, how Flemeth and Morrigan tie together really is the one reason I'm probably going to give DA2 a shot. They've done a good job keeping that story interesting. With Flemeth's ability to see into the future, I'm more and more thinking she is just the puppet master and we're just playing into her hand. Whether MOrrigan is really siding with Flemeth somehow, I don't know.

What I'm thinking is that maybe originally Flemeth intended to take over Morrigan and somehow use the OGB to augment her own power. Yet maybe Morrigan wants to do the DR, to sort of achieve the power Flemeth has, but maybe without becoming an abomination thing? I don't know- its freakin' magic, the writers can take it anyway they really want and we wouldn't have a clue.

It seems Flemeth is not your typical shapeshifter though, but that much we really already knew.

And Mary just followed up with this:

Mary Kirby wrote...

distinguetraces wrote...

Can we be completely confident that, of the human form and the dragon form, the human is the original?

I would advise you that in any dealings with Flemeth, be confident of nothing.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 juillet 2010 - 06:31 .

[MoSa09]

Yeah, how Flemeth and Morrigan tie together really is the one reason I'm probably going to give DA2 a shot. They've done a good job keeping that story interesting. With Flemeth's ability to see into the future, I'm more and more thinking she is just the puppet master and we're just playing into her hand. Whether MOrrigan is really siding with Flemeth somehow, I don't know.

What I'm thinking is that maybe originally Flemeth intended to take over Morrigan and somehow use the OGB to augment her own power. Yet maybe Morrigan wants to do the DR, to sort of achieve the power Flemeth has, but maybe without becoming an abomination thing? I don't know- its freakin' magic, the writers can take it anyway they really want and we wouldn't have a clue.


[/quote]

With Flemeth, it's hard to tell. Almost everything seems to be possible: exactly as Morrigan told us how it is up to it turns out nothing she told us was true. There are so many open plots regarding Flemeth:

1. Maric and his favor
2. Flemeth dragon form.
3. Morrigan
4. other daughters
5. the nature of Flemeth herself
6. OGB
7. why did she help us
8. Grimoire

and i am certain i forgot most of it. The interplay when some of these things get revealed could change anything we beleive we know about DA, Thedas and Morrigan. And this really gets me hooked and curious...

[tmp7704]

Hmm going back to subject of graphics for a second, it may be worth noting that with nVidia gfx cards it's already possible to enhance DA graphics somewhat -- the control panel for these cards allow to turn on ambient occlusion for specific games, and DA is included in that list. Surprisingly enough it actually works:

http://i31.tinypic.com/a11gkp.jpg

i have disabled body texture so the effect is more visible. You can see character's hands adding shadows on the thighs, as well as other shadows added in places where it'd be harder for the light to reach. Pretty interesting, overall.

Modifié par tmp7704, 17 juillet 2010 - 07:09 .

[MoSa09]

Don't take any offense please, but i would advise against using pictures with comapions lacking any cloth. This might end up in receiving a warning or a ban or gettin this thread locked. So, to be on the safe side, i would advise to change it against a pic were she is dressed, to stay out of trouble.



And to move on the issue at hand. The graphics are quite good, waa better than any DA 2 screenshot i've seen so far

[phaonica]

I think I'm going to work on building my new computer today. All this talk about the graphics has suddenly made me far more sensitive to them

[Addai]

Apropos Flemeth, did you ever think about the fact that your PC was unconscious and completely in her power for maybe up to a few weeks?

Does that idea weird anyone else out? 

[tmp7704]

Hmm considering the character model was lacking any texture whatsoever i didn't think it'd be an issue -- it's no more "naked" than unpainted Barbie doll. Changed it to a link in any case.

[MoSa09]

Addai67 wrote...

Apropos Flemeth, did you ever think about the fact that your PC was unconscious and completely in her power for maybe up to a few weeks?

Does that idea weird anyone else out? 

Don't know, Flemeth seems to be way to powerful to need any sort of tricks like that. If she wanted to do something with you or force you into things, she might as well do while you're awake. She does not appear to be that sneaky kind of guy. Someone who fights like a giant dragon is hard to imagine to fight stealthy behind your back while your unconscious like an assassin.

Modifié par MoSa09, 17 juillet 2010 - 07:31 .