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[Giggles_Manically]

I tried so many times but after Morrigan said to leave the villagers to burn, and my DC realized that his own sister and mother could be in that situation he dumped her.

Then my CE dumped her after suggesting that he let his family and friends be sacrificed. There are quite a few glaringly bad things she says that push people away in some areas.



What are all the rumors I have been hearing about Flemeth and Maric? Some people are saying that Alistair could be her child and I am all confused now.

[phaonica]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What are all the rumors I have been hearing about Flemeth and Maric? Some people are saying that Alistair could be her child and I am all confused now.

Flemeth demanded a promise from Maric in The Stolen Throne and they were alone in her hut for hours. According to Loghain, Maric left her place looking "shaken". We don't know what happened in the hut, nor what promise Maric made to Flemeth.

[phaonica]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I tried so many times but after Morrigan said to leave the villagers to burn, and my DC realized that his own sister and mother could be in that situation he dumped her.
Then my CE dumped her after suggesting that he let his family and friends be sacrificed. There are quite a few glaringly bad things she says that push people away in some areas.

One of my most memorable Morrigan moments: I was playing the game for the first time, and I was in Redcliffe agreeing to save that blacksmith's daughter. Morrigan made some snarky comment about "the next thing we know, we'll be saving kittens". As soon as the conversation was over, I clicked on her to see if there was some kind of argument option to ask her WTF is her problem, and to my great surprise, I had the option to tell her "What I want is for you to not be a ****." I thought it was awesome that the devs anticipated this reaction and actually included the option for this argument to play out. The dialog in this game really is excellent.

[Giggles_Manically]

You actually get that dialouge to ask her that after Redcliffe. Huh never saw that before.



Also I managed to save everyone in one PT but, when I got the helm all i could sau was:

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...

One of my most memorable Morrigan moments: I was playing the game for the first time, and I was in Redcliffe agreeing to save that blacksmith's daughter. Morrigan made some snarky comment about "the next thing we know, we'll be saving kittens". As soon as the conversation was over, I clicked on her to see if there was some kind of argument option to ask her WTF is her problem, and to my great surprise, I had the option to tell her "What I want is for you to not be a ****." I thought it was awesome that the devs anticipated this reaction and actually included the option for this argument to play out. The dialog in this game really is excellent.

Wow- I did not realize that. I'll have to try that in my current run...

[Addai]

phaonica wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What are all the rumors I have been hearing about Flemeth and Maric? Some people are saying that Alistair could be her child and I am all confused now.

Flemeth demanded a promise from Maric in The Stolen Throne and they were alone in her hut for hours. According to Loghain, Maric left her place looking "shaken". We don't know what happened in the hut, nor what promise Maric made to Flemeth.

And to be fair, he could be "shaken" if she even showed him her unders, let alone raped him.

Flemeth:  Briefs or bikini?

Personally, I think she showed him a vision of the Blight(s).

Modifié par Addai67, 18 juillet 2010 - 05:32 .

[Napalm Jim]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I tried so many times but after Morrigan said to leave the villagers to burn, and my DC realized that his own sister and mother could be in that situation he dumped her.
Then my CE dumped her after suggesting that he let his family and friends be sacrificed. There are quite a few glaringly bad things she says that push people away in some areas.

Yeah, moments like these seemed to put more of an ominous light on the Dark Ritual thingy for me.

I always kinda thought it odd that even if you make friends with her and convince her that it's okay to care about other people that she still finds the mass murdering of innocents for a minor gain to be not only acceptable, but preferable since she loses reputation if you turn down the blood mage's offer.  Makes me think that, with respects to her mystery plan after the events of DAO, she wouldn't hesitate for a second to slaughter villagers or what have you if it meant that it would further her goals even in some small way.

I wonder if maybe that the intent from the writers was to sorta foreshadow what Morrigan might be like in future games and that if it does indeed come down to choosing sides between Flemeth and Morrigan in DA2, that maybe they wanted it to be more of a "shades of gray" choice as to who is the better to side with, rather than one's obviously good and the other's blatantly bad.

[ximena]

Addai67 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What are all the rumors I have been hearing about Flemeth and Maric? Some people are saying that Alistair could be her child and I am all confused now.

Flemeth demanded a promise from Maric in The Stolen Throne and they were alone in her hut for hours. According to Loghain, Maric left her place looking "shaken". We don't know what happened in the hut, nor what promise Maric made to Flemeth.

And to be fair, he could be "shaken" if she even showed him her unders, let alone raped him.

Flemeth:  Briefs or bikini?

Personally, I think she showed him a vision of the Blight(s).

Didn't she tell him that Loghain was going to betray him twice? o:

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What are all the rumors I have been hearing about Flemeth and Maric? Some people are saying that Alistair could be her child and I am all confused now.

Flemeth demanded a promise from Maric in The Stolen Throne and they were alone in her hut for hours. According to Loghain, Maric left her place looking "shaken". We don't know what happened in the hut, nor what promise Maric made to Flemeth.

And to be fair, he could be "shaken" if she even showed him her unders, let alone raped him.

Flemeth:  Briefs or bikini?

Personally, I think she showed him a vision of the Blight(s).

Yeah, it really could have been anything. I would think that seeing a "vision" of the Blight might make him more inclined to believe the prophesy than I perceived him to at the beginning of The Calling.  I'll admit I didn't quite understand Maric's thinking in that book, though. I'll have to read it again sometime. 

[phaonica]

ximena wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

What are all the rumors I have been hearing about Flemeth and Maric? Some people are saying that Alistair could be her child and I am all confused now.

Flemeth demanded a promise from Maric in The Stolen Throne and they were alone in her hut for hours. According to Loghain, Maric left her place looking "shaken". We don't know what happened in the hut, nor what promise Maric made to Flemeth.

And to be fair, he could be "shaken" if she even showed him her unders, let alone raped him.

Flemeth:  Briefs or bikini?

Personally, I think she showed him a vision of the Blight(s).

Didn't she tell him that Loghain was going to betray him twice? o:

Yes, she did tell Maric that, but she told him that with Loghain standing right there. Loghain stayed outside when Flemeth and Maric were "discussing" in her hut.

Modifié par phaonica, 18 juillet 2010 - 06:08 .

[phaonica]

Napalm Jim wrote...

Yeah, moments like these seemed to put more of an ominous light on the Dark Ritual thingy for me.

I always kinda thought it odd that even if you make friends with her and convince her that it's okay to care about other people that she still finds the mass murdering of innocents for a minor gain to be not only acceptable, but preferable since she loses reputation if you turn down the blood mage's offer.  Makes me think that, with respects to her mystery plan after the events of DAO, she wouldn't hesitate for a second to slaughter villagers or what have you if it meant that it would further her goals even in some small way.

She probably looks down on the city elves, too, the same way she looks down on the Circle Mages. She has no tolerence for what she perceives to be weakness. Does she do anything selfless in the game that makes her explanation about preserving the Old God out of the goodness of her heart believable?

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

phaonica wrote...

Napalm Jim wrote...

Yeah, moments like these seemed to put more of an ominous light on the Dark Ritual thingy for me.

I always kinda thought it odd that even if you make friends with her and convince her that it's okay to care about other people that she still finds the mass murdering of innocents for a minor gain to be not only acceptable, but preferable since she loses reputation if you turn down the blood mage's offer.  Makes me think that, with respects to her mystery plan after the events of DAO, she wouldn't hesitate for a second to slaughter villagers or what have you if it meant that it would further her goals even in some small way.

She probably looks down on the city elves, too, the same way she looks down on the Circle Mages. She has no tolerence for what she perceives to be weakness. Does she do anything selfless in the game that makes her explanation about preserving the Old God out of the goodness of her heart believable?

I think she is after the knowledge and power of the OGB. She could learn about why Darkspawn exists, the Maker, etc. And in the process learn some even more powerful magic. I don't think she intends to unleash Hell on Thedas by doing the DR. She does have selfish motives though I think she certainly isn't going to tell it to go out and do good deeds for the sake of mankind, or use what she learns/gains from it to better mankind unless it betters herself. She is probably not even going to treat the OGB like a child. I could see a Flemeth-Morrigan relationship with Morrigan and the OGB.

My characters that have done the DR only one has done it out of love/trust was my mage who was a sucker for her since the Korcari Wilds, and he was also very anti Chantry so he had the hope that saving a soul of an Old God could help uproot the Chantry and some of it's ideals on magic specifically. All the rest really couldn't trust her from an RP point of view, but saw it as a deal you get a very powerful ally and I get to keep my life which they agreed to.

Also a little off topic. I'm thinking of buying The Witcher is it any good it is only 19.95$ at our Wal-Mart, and I have to get groceries tommorow, so I'm thinking of picking it up. Has anyone played it I'm not expecting the same quality of DA:O, but I'm kind of hoping it will be better than ME2.

[Giggles_Manically]

The Witcher has its good points, but its better to wait for the sequel since the combat is clunky and some people got some nasty bugs from it.





The Reason the keeps me from doing the DR the most though is that Morrigan says "I dont wish to tell you" if she wont tell a friend or a lover, then why the hell should I go through with something that requires trust, if there is no trust on her end?

[MoSa09]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The Witcher has its good points, but its better to wait for the sequel since the combat is clunky and some people got some nasty bugs from it.

As Witcher 2 will continue the story of Witcher 1 and there are even rumors your perosnal saves might carry over, this is only one more reason to play Witcher 1 as well. And it's a good game. Sure, it has it flaws, but overall, i enjoyed it alot.

And Morrigan is not evil. Her recommendations might appear to be so, but she is just practical and realistic, not evil. And you can convince her to agree to many if you try. You can even talk her into helping out the mages if you choose the right words and she will agree without any loss of approval. She is practical and maybe a bit hostile given she was raised by Flemeth (i guess everyone would be), but she does have a heart and she is open to discussion and if you can prove her to be wrong, she will agree with you without a fus..

And her not telling the truth about the DR: i'd rather blame that on the writers wanting to keep that secret than her. This seems to be odd, given how she wants it, and i believe they just made her do something a bit ouf of character just to keep it secret.

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 12:42 .

[ximena]

MoSa09 wrote...



And her not telling the truth about the DR: i'd rather blame that on the writers wanting to keep that secret than her. This seems to be odd, given how she wants it, and i believe they just made her do something a bit ouf of character just to keep it secret.

And then there's the fact that the PC's dialog was extremely restricted in terms of trying to poke the answers out of her.

PC: *asks a lot of questions*
Morrigan: I cannot tell you.
PC: Okay.

 

[Giggles_Manically]

I know that Morrigan is not evil, just heartless unless you get her to open up a little.



However the DR is a huge lie by omission since anyone would tell a friend or a lover that there soul may be destroyed in less than a year. BUt no she conceals it from you to have a better chance at gaining the OGB. Since by that point you are reeling from so many descions and getting the news about how a blight ends smacked across the face. (cough GOTCHA cough).



I like her VO and arc in DAO but concealing something that big is lame, selfish, and ultimately is what puts me off her.

[Giggles_Manically]

ximena wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...



And her not telling the truth about the DR: i'd rather blame that on the writers wanting to keep that secret than her. This seems to be odd, given how she wants it, and i believe they just made her do something a bit ouf of character just to keep it secret.

And then there's the fact that the PC's dialog was extremely restricted in terms of trying to poke the answers out of her.

PC: *asks a lot of questions*
Morrigan: I cannot tell you.
PC: Okay.

 

I just did it last weekend Xinema and she says:
I do not wish to tell you.

Not I cant tell you ( meaning something is stopping her outside of her will) , I do not wish to tell you (indicating that she of her own volition is not going to tell you).

[ximena]

Aye. Sorry for that. I was just trying to point out that the warden didn't exactly have enough dialog choices in the DR. Like the writers themselves didn't want our characters prodding Morrigan.

[Giggles_Manically]

ximena wrote...

Aye. Sorry for that. I was just trying to point out that the warden didn't exactly have enough dialog choices in the DR. Like the writers themselves didn't want our characters prodding Morrigan.

Aye everyone leaves the ending feeling like they got beat by the plot stick.

Also keep up the good work on your comic liked the last couple of chapters. Best fan comic I have ever seen for DA, outside of some of Aimo's work. But his/hers make me laugh everytime.

[ximena]

You should check out chakhabit's fan comic if you haven't. It's very, very good.



Unfortunately for those who romanced Morrigan/us, we were the ones who got beaten by that stick hard.

[MoSa09]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I know that Morrigan is not evil, just heartless unless you get her to open up a little.

.

She is not even heartless. In many ways, she is more of a Grey Warden than Alistair or the player ever is.

We're all accustomed of playing and watching the great great heroes who save every kitten, every child, defeat the great evil and ride into the sunset with the girl. And while this is a great fantasy, that is not even close to the truth of real life. You can't save everyone, and if try, you'll most likely die trying to do so and neither rescue the kitten nor defeat the great evil.

Sure, it's heartless to leave Redcliffe to its fate. But in-game, there is no reload, and the Wardens and her party can die there. And the only job of a Warden is to defeat the Blight. Nothing else. If you and Alistair die, no one will be there to kill the Archdemon and save Ferelden. Duncan killed Ser Jory because he was afraid of dying throughout the joining. A naive man with a young wife and a child. Check Ducan's wiki on the BW page: he and two Wardens slaughtered a village after a Darkspawn attacked, just to be safe and keep the taint from spreading. Warden's are not even close to be heroes. They do everything what needs to be done to stop a Blight. If this involves killing or sacrificing hundreds, so be it. Everything that is necessary to stop the Blight will be done by a Warden.

That's the great appeal of Wardens to me, they are just not your average hero to save the day. A Wardens moral is grey by his very nature. So yes, refusing to help Redcliffe is heartless, buy from an in-game perspective, its a pretty reasonable point to avoid getting killed by defending a small village and let the archdemon destroy the rest of Ferelden too. Morrigan is practical, sometimes too much, but she is always reasonable in her opinion.

She and Alistair makes perfect advisors. He has the heart, sometimes way too much and lacks the practical approach a leader needs. Morrigan is practical and sometimes fail to see the humans behind her reasoning. Together, they make a perfect pair of advisors. But neither of them is either just whiny nor heartless.

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I just did it last weekend
Xinema and she says:
I do not wish to tell you.

Not I cant
tell you ( meaning something is stopping her outside of her will) , I do
not wish to tell you (indicating that she of her own volition is not
going to tell you).

And i still believe this to be somewhat out of character. If you wanna desperately persuade someone, you would either tell him the truth in the end or lie to him to make him agree. That she keeps us in the dark is just the writers wanna leave us hanging without knowledge. At this moment, this is not Morrigan speaking but Gaider telling us "we won't tell you until a later game"

Modifié par MoSa09, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:17 .

[Giggles_Manically]

ximena wrote...

You should check out chakhabit's fan comic if you haven't. It's very, very good.

Unfortunately for those who romanced Morrigan/us, we were the ones who got beaten by that stick hard.

Oh God I was average on it for so long until:
Flemeth said: Well our cable reception is bad so this is as close to a real soap as we can get!"

I have been laughing for a good couple of minutes now.

[bl00dsh0t]

Also to add to mosa's post:



Gaider has told us that the ritual as it appeared in the game is not the ritual the way it was intended. There was supposed to be a version for those that had befriended and/or romanced her and one for those that did not. But due to budget restraints it hit the cutting board and what we got was a version that melded the two together rather oddly. Aimo's comic did clear some things up though, also that she was about to ask the warden to do "something terrible" so her tightlippedness might not have been so out of character after all as she may have feared a detail or two about what she intends to do might make the warden decide against the ritual.



Still the whole thing was a plothammer trick of doooooommm that I fear we won't get cleared up for a while. The whole expac in february theory based on the old release date from awakening might fall to pieces due to it being released on handhelds as well... meh gotta keep to hope going, perhaps we get a xpac that finishes off the wardens story in a good way but the damn US ending is somewhat a block to that being done properly as awakening has shown... ahh well back to the books



and @ximena - new pages are pure awesome

[Master Shiori]

phaonica wrote...

ximena wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Brockololly wrote...


As for the OGB even being in DA2- you figure given Origins probably takes 1-2 years time and Hawke's story seems to start at Lothering, the oldest the OGB could be by the end of the ten year span of DA2 is about 8 or 9 years old.  So unless BioWare is going to have us killing little kids or the OGB grows really fast, I'm doubtful the OGB will make an appearance in any big way. 

My bet would be on the growing really fast thing. We don't know what the thing really is, after all. Morrigan says it would barely be able to be called a child after that first night. So who knows?

I don't really know what to think of the OGB growing really fast. As for Morrigan saying that, I think she meant that at such an early stage of conception, the baby isn't really a child yet.

Wow, I didn't interpret that line that way at all. I didn't hear "it won't be a child yet, so you won't hurt it". I heard "after it contains the old god soul, it wont' be a child any more".

Morrigan: "Ignoring that after but one night it could barely be called a child... no, it will not be hurt. It will be changed."

What she meant is that after the DR the fetus cannot be considered a child and therefore it can absorb the essence of the Archdemon without being destroyed. But it will be a normal child afterwards, just one who carries the soul of an Old God.
Morrigan even tells you she will raise the child, which implies it will be a normal kid for all intents and purposes, although it might have unknown powers due to it's soul.

[Napalm Jim]

phaonica wrote...

She probably looks down on the city elves, too, the same way she looks down on the Circle Mages. She has no tolerence for what she perceives to be weakness. Does she do anything selfless in the game that makes her explanation about preserving the Old God out of the goodness of her heart believable?

Uhm, feeding the dog?  But it seemed to me that she was rather indifferent towards the plight of the city elves, given that she neither approves nor disapproves of you setting them free.  The only time she shows any sort of bias one way or another is when you turn down that one blood ritual.  As to whether she'd have a different opinion on  the matter if the lives of a group of people that she respected was on the line (are there any?) I can't say, but it is something interesting to think about.

MoSa09 wrote...

Sure, it's
heartless to leave Redcliffe to its fate. But in-game, there is no
reload, and the Wardens and her party can die there. And the only job of
a Warden is to defeat the Blight. Nothing else. If you and Alistair
die, no one will be there to kill the Archdemon and save Ferelden.
Duncan killed Ser Jory because he was afraid of dying throughout the
joining. A naive man with a young wife and a child. Check Ducan's wiki
on the BW page: he and two Wardens slaughtered a village after a
Darkspawn attacked, just to be safe and keep the taint from spreading.
Warden's are not even close to be heroes. They do everything what needs
to be done to stop a Blight. If this involves killing or sacrificing
hundreds, so be it. Everything that is necessary to stop the Blight will
be done by a Warden.

That's the great appeal of Wardens to me,
they are just not your average hero to save the day. A Wardens moral is
grey by his very nature. So yes, refusing to help Redcliffe is
heartless, buy from an in-game perspective, its a pretty reasonable
point to avoid getting killed by defending a small village and let the
archdemon destroy the rest of Ferelden too. Morrigan is practical,
sometimes too much, but she is always reasonable in her opinion.

Didn't get to see the situation with Duncan's village, so I dunno if it was the best thing to do - wasn't there.  As with regards to Redcliffe, I never felt that leaving the village to it's fate was the pragmatic thing to do.  Quite the opposite, really...

The Wardens needed to get into the castle so that they could find Arl Eamon and try to get his suppost against Loghain and to get his soldiers to battle the Blight.  Turns out the castle is chock full of undead and that every night they come pouring out of there and attack the village.  Now given what the Warden knows at this point, there's no reason for them to believe that after the village gets attacked that the undead are gonna go away like a bad dream.  One way or another, the Warden and his posse are gonna wind up having to fight them to get into that castle.

Anyhoo, in the village you have a small gathering of knights and commoners that are already set into an entrenched defensive position.  These people are willing to fight a common foe of the Warden, for free no less, and it stands to reason that there would be greater odds of survival for the Warden if he/she were to fight along side them.  Strength in numbers and all  that.

But in this sense, I never took Morrigan's stance as being evil or overly pragmatic in not wanting to defend Redcliffe, but rather that she wasn't really seeing the big picture of things.  She's smart, but there's still a lot that she doesn't know.