16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...

After Awakening, I'm highly aware that, for me, it was not necessarily the world or the story that was most engaging, and what made me care, it was the interaction between the PC and the NPCs that did it. The more they can do to make me care about the NPCs (especially my party members) the more likely I will be to embrace the role of the big damn hero.

I'd agree with that, except for myself at least, having a third person narrative slightly obfuscates my ability to enjoy the companions as much. In ME, I liked certain characters but it was always just Shepard talking to Garrus, not like MY warden talking to Alistair. And the sex scenes / romance dialogue with a third person narrative like ME are just 10x more cringe worthy. Although a lot depends on the VA too.

I just hate to see games try to mimic cinema so much. Cinema has been around for about 100 years to get to where it is today. I don't see where games are trying to go by simply trying to copy movies. Games have strengths and unique assets that movies never can touch, yet with every ME or DA2 "cinematic" experience, instead of being immersed in a great world, I'm torn out of it, often cringing and wincing at awkward animations or bizarre voice acting.

My fear for DA2's cinematic take is this: look at the sex scene in DAO. Its bad. Like I was laughing my butt off and cringing at the same time, bad. I was genuinely confused how BioWare could have thought that the sex scenes in Origins could have been construed as mature or serious in any way. But that was their big "cinematic" moment.

The problem as I see it is this: DA's graphics don't hold up to ME, at all. And if you're going to be going cinematic, they need to be really good. Given the screens we've seen so far, its not looking promising.

I'l give DA2 a chance, but it seems doomed to failure really, as it seems the comparisons to ME2 will be inevitable and if its not graphically up to ME2 quality or up to the perceived overall quality which reviewers bestowed upon ME2, it will get hammered by reviewers as ME in swords.

[Herr Uhl]

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The dialogue wheel is similar. In Origins you pick the dialogue and then behind the scenes it boils down that full dialogue choice and steers it towards several outcomes with approval hits/perks along the way. With the dialogue wheel, you're basically bringing that simplified mechanical process to the forefront in guessing Hawke's response tied to some ambiguous emotion and hoping that whatever he/she says matches up to the blurb/emotion.

With the caveat that we don't actually know how it's going to work in detail, I dislike the idea that there's not even a pretence of nuance in pointing at a fist versus at a heart versus at a smiley face.  People will argue that these things were always inherent, that there always was an invisible fist or heart behind a dialogue line, but I don't buy that.  It seems to me the writers will be "studying to the test," simplifying or streamlining interactions precisely because they need to conform the dialogue to the icon.  Otherwise the icon would not have any real meaning.

Since they have a VO they need to have an emotion for him/her to begin with though.

[Giggles_Manically]

What I dont like about the whole Dialouge wheel is that:

If you choose to flirt in Dragon Age you see exactly what you want to say.



However Hawke has a chance of saying: YOU ME TENT 5 MINUTES. or something equaly cringe worthy. I dislike not seeing what I am about to say, facepalms sadly ensue many times in ME.

[GardenSnake]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

The dialogue wheel is similar. In Origins you pick the dialogue and then behind the scenes it boils down that full dialogue choice and steers it towards several outcomes with approval hits/perks along the way. With the dialogue wheel, you're basically bringing that simplified mechanical process to the forefront in guessing Hawke's response tied to some ambiguous emotion and hoping that whatever he/she says matches up to the blurb/emotion.

With the caveat that we don't actually know how it's going to work in detail, I dislike the idea that there's not even a pretence of nuance in pointing at a fist versus at a heart versus at a smiley face.  People will argue that these things were always inherent, that there always was an invisible fist or heart behind a dialogue line, but I don't buy that.  It seems to me the writers will be "studying to the test," simplifying or streamlining interactions precisely because they need to conform the dialogue to the icon.  Otherwise the icon would not have any real meaning.

Since they have a VO they need to have an emotion for him/her to begin with though.

Personally, I found that the only emotion that Meer managed to pull off as Shepard was anger. Everything else just came off as horrible. fingers crossed for Harrison Ford as Hawke. Lol, fat chance.

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

phaonica wrote...

After Awakening, I'm highly aware that, for me, it was not necessarily the world or the story that was most engaging, and what made me care, it was the interaction between the PC and the NPCs that did it. The more they can do to make me care about the NPCs (especially my party members) the more likely I will be to embrace the role of the big damn hero.

I'd agree with that, except for myself at least, having a third person narrative slightly obfuscates my ability to enjoy the companions as much. In ME, I liked certain characters but it was always just Shepard talking to Garrus, not like MY warden talking to Alistair. And the sex scenes / romance dialogue with a third person narrative like ME are just 10x more cringe worthy. Although a lot depends on the VA too.

This is true. The third person does distance you, a whole lot, from your PC. But I've played games and read books were I sincerely cared about the relationship between two characters, even if one of those characters wasn't me. The PCs love interest doesn't have to be *me* or *my avatar* for me as a player to care about them. Romance novels are a huge, huge seller, and not a lot of them are written in the first person.

I just hate to see games try to mimic cinema so much. Cinema has been around for about 100 years to get to where it is today. I don't see where games are trying to go by simply trying to copy movies. Games have strengths and unique assets that movies never can touch, yet with every ME or DA2 "cinematic" experience, instead of being immersed in a great world, I'm torn out of it, often cringing and wincing at awkward animations or bizarre voice acting.

I agree that most video games have terrible, stilted, and self-conscious voice acting. DAO was actually a huge surprise to me, in that I thought the voice acting and dialog was really damn good for a change. I don't know if that can translate to an engaging PC character or not, but I'm not ready to decry it as impossible just yet.

My fear for DA2's cinematic take is this: look at the sex scene in DAO. Its bad. Like I was laughing my butt off and cringing at the same time, bad. I was genuinely confused how BioWare could have thought that the sex scenes in Origins could have been construed as mature or serious in any way. But that was their big "cinematic" moment.
The problem as I see it is this: DA's graphics don't hold up to ME, at all. And if you're going to be going cinematic, they need to be really good. Given the screens we've seen so far, its not looking promising.

Yeah, that's true, they look like Team America. I can't think any computer-generated, on-screen sex scenes that are much better, though. I've only seen a couple of the Mass Effect romance scenes on youtube, so I don't know the context, but I thought those were worse, and it had nothing to do with the voice acting. That's just my opinion, of course.

Modifié par phaonica, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:11 .

[phaonica]

GardenSnake wrote...

Personally, I found that the only emotion that Meer managed to pull off as Shepard was anger. Everything else just came off as horrible. fingers crossed for Harrison Ford as Hawke. Lol, fat chance.

Again, I haven't played Mass Effect yet, so it's hard for me to compare. Other than Shepard, did any of the NPCs have good dialog lines, or good voice acting, or were all the NPCs as bad? I know you have no control over what they say, but if they also sounded bad and acted bad, or had bad dialog lines, then Dragon Age already has more potential because the NPCs in Origins were written well and sounded good, imo. If Shepard had bad dialog because *everyone* had bad dialog, then there is the potential for Hawke to have good dialog, because everyone else in DA had good dialog.

[Giggles_Manically]

In Mass effect a lot of the pcs have amazing VO.

Mainly since Lance Henrinkson and Keith David are there. Mainly its the NPC's personaility that is so amazing rather than their VO work. Although Tali and Garrus both have good voices.

The guy who voiced Oghern did like three in ME2.

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:20 .

[Kryyptehk]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

In Mass effect a lot of the pcs have amazing VO.

Mainly since Lance Henrinkson and Keith David are there. Mainly its the NPC's personaility that is so amazing rather than their VO work. Although Tali and Garrus both have good voices.

The guy who voiced Oghern did like three in ME2.

Martin Sheen was freaking awesome as TIM. In my opinion anyway.

[Herr Uhl]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The guy who voiced Oghern did like three in ME2.

The Blum does many, many voices.

[Giggles_Manically]

I liked all the NPC's in Mass Effect, outside of Jacob (blah).



Taking the Paragon route in Mordin's loyatly mission was amazing, his VA did an impressive job.



I also loved Legion's voice and how animate he was. HE IS ALIVE DAMMIT!

[Herr Uhl]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Taking the Paragon route in Mordin's loyatly mission was amazing, his VA did an impressive job.

Paragon route?

[Giggles_Manically]

Well the renegade route is boring since he goes on about how it is needed, and all you do is go unhuh lets keep going.



His VA was impressive there.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Giggles_Manically wrote...
I also loved Legion's voice and how animate he was. HE IS ALIVE DAMMIT!

"Shepard Commander!"
When he said that, I wanted to give him the biggest hug, loss of badasseness be damned.

[Giggles_Manically]

Selling Legion makes no sense (I had 220,000 credits floating around anyway).



Besides his widow, with squad AP ammo makes him a one hit wonder. I like his eyebrows and how he mimics people when talking in his actions.



I want a whole Short Circut style side mission with him.

[phaonica]

Ok, ok, Like I said I haven't played Mass Effect, so I don't know. I was just thinking that the dialog in Origins is really good, imo, and that it stands to reason that the dialog for the PC has the potential be good, too, if the NPC dialog is any indication of the quality of writing and acting that the franchise is capable of.

[Kryyptehk]

phaonica wrote...

Ok, ok, Like I said I haven't played Mass Effect, so I don't know. I was just thinking that the dialog in Origins is really good, imo, and that it stands to reason that the dialog for the PC has the potential be good, too, if the NPC dialog is any indication of the quality of writing and acting that the franchise is capable of.

Loghain is in ME2 as a Quarian As is Claudia Black.

[Giggles_Manically]

The dude who played Avernus is as well.



Simon Templeman is even more awsome as a Quarian.

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

The dude who played Avernus is as well.

Simon Templeman is even more awsome as a Quarian.

Granted but he can't beat the best Quarian evar, Kal'Reegar voiced by Adam Baldwin from Firefly.

[phaonica]

Kryyptehk wrote...

phaonica wrote...

Ok, ok, Like I said I haven't played Mass Effect, so I don't know. I was just thinking that the dialog in Origins is really good, imo, and that it stands to reason that the dialog for the PC has the potential be good, too, if the NPC dialog is any indication of the quality of writing and acting that the franchise is capable of.

Loghain is in ME2 as a Quarian As is Claudia Black.

I looked them up on Youtube, when I first heard about that. Because Loghain is  . And so is Morrigan.

[GardenSnake]

phaonica wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

Personally, I found that the only emotion that Meer managed to pull off as Shepard was anger. Everything else just came off as horrible. fingers crossed for Harrison Ford as Hawke. Lol, fat chance.

Again, I haven't played Mass Effect yet, so it's hard for me to compare. Other than Shepard, did any of the NPCs have good dialog lines, or good voice acting, or were all the NPCs as bad? I know you have no control over what they say, but if they also sounded bad and acted bad, or had bad dialog lines, then Dragon Age already has more potential because the NPCs in Origins were written well and sounded good, imo. If Shepard had bad dialog because *everyone* had bad dialog, then there is the potential for Hawke to have good dialog, because everyone else in DA had good dialog.

Personally, I liked the NPC's as a whole in ME2. They were all pretty meh in ME1 with the only real standout for me being Joker because he was voiced by Seth Green. Knowing who the actor was does contribute to my opinion of the character. But Joker really did seem like a real person to me. ME2's cast made the NPC's come to life if you ask me. Even though the loyalty system ensured that I didn't really give a crap about any of them, even Miranda, the chick  I decided to romance, listening to what they had to say (as scarce as those moments were) did make me a happy panda  

Martin Sheen, Seth Green, Yvonne Strahovski, Raphael Sbarge (Carth) and Carrie-Ann Moss (Trinity) were all stand outs for me.

When I say I didn't like Shepard it's not because of the NPC's that surrounded him. To me, Meer really did kill Shepard for me.

[adneate]

GardenSnake wrote...

When I say I didn't like Shepard it's not because of the NPC's that surrounded him. To me, Meer really did kill Shepard for me.

That's why FemShep should be the star of Mass Effect, Hale is fantastic with the renegade lines in particular. She brings way more life to the role than Meer does.

[GardenSnake]

phaonica wrote...

Ok, ok, Like I said I haven't played Mass Effect, so I don't know. I was just thinking that the dialog in Origins is really good, imo, and that it stands to reason that the dialog for the PC has the potential be good, too, if the NPC dialog is any indication of the quality of writing and acting that the franchise is capable of.

But when judging the games based on dialouge from the PC and companions alone, then I'd say that Origins is 500 times the game ME as a series is trying to be. I couldn't care less about any of either games NPCs, although some were somewhat likeable. In Origins however, the final speeches everybody gives at Denerim made me tear up, knowing that the game was almost over and I'd have to say goodbye to these characters I had traveled and adventured with for the past sixty hours was a hard pill to swallow. Until of course I started my second playthrough  

Of course, you and I may have very different experiences. But I think that even if you end up loving ME and or ME2, you'll end up thinking that Origins is still WAY better.

[Addai]

adneate wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

When I say I didn't like Shepard it's not because of the NPC's that surrounded him. To me, Meer really did kill Shepard for me.

That's why FemShep should be the star of Mass Effect, Hale is fantastic with the renegade lines in particular. She brings way more life to the role than Meer does.

Was she the same VA in ME1?  'Cuz I thought femShep in ME1 sucked swamp.

[GardenSnake]

adneate wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

When I say I didn't like Shepard it's not because of the NPC's that surrounded him. To me, Meer really did kill Shepard for me.

That's why FemShep should be the star of Mass Effect, Hale is fantastic with the renegade lines in particular. She brings way more life to the role than Meer does.

That reminds me, I still have to do a FemShep renegade run! But in case I don't want to, I'll just take your word for it. The wheel and having to sit through shep's lines decreases replayability to the point of where replaying ME and ME2 were more chores than they were fun.

Unlike in Origins.  Speaking of which, I didn't know there was a character limit on 360. Is it the same for ps3 and pc? Anyone? The last thing I want to start doing is deleting my precious playthroughs. My mage and Cousland are out of the question, but I'll delete the DSC without a second thought. I just need to finish the game once more through to get the all endings achievement and then I want to see the dwarf commoner origin. Then I've pretty much seen everything. How's THAT for replay value hmmm ME dev team?

[adneate]

Addai67 wrote...

Was she the same VA in ME1?  'Cuz I thought femShep in ME1 sucked swamp.

Yeah Hale is the VA for both games. I thought you already said you get annoyed with all female voice actors, even Claudia Black at times.