16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Considering her appearance, I think that she really wants Hawke to buy that she is THE Flemeth from the legends. That is about how I'd imagine a legendary witch to look like.



There was no need to show that to the warden.

[Addai]

GardenSnake wrote...

Good point, but that means that she looks different for Hawke just because Bioware wants her to? Come on, that just sucks. But seeing as the fact that the game spans ten years, we could potentially see her as an old hag again. Having her as a potential party member does intruige me. Especially if she at one point mentions being killed by a tall dark and handsome Grey Warden  

Still not as good as actually playing as the Warden though......

We have no idea what's going on so it's hard to say.  Flemeth is an abomination, though, and not just a shapeshifter, so I would think she can appear as she wants to appear basically.  She wanted the Wardens to trust her, maybe she wants to scare Hawke.  Too sketchy at this point to say.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I think Flemeth possessing several forms and being able to change at will, increases her mystique and mysterious nature. So I don't mind that move. What I would mind however is too much change for Morrigan.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:48 .

[phaonica]

New Article at Game Informer
http://gameinformer....gon-age-ii.aspx

Modifié par phaonica, 21 juillet 2010 - 10:19 .

[MoSa09]

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

[quote]MoSa09 wrote...

I do wonder if Morrigan is the flipside of the same coin that is Flemeth. They say Flemeth is both the old hag as much as a young and beautiful seductress. Flemeth herself says she once was just as beautiful as Morrigan is now. And Mary Kirby said Flemeth just fooled us by pretending to be nothing more than an old hag.

I am starting to fear that indeed Flemeth and Morrigan are the same. Maybe Morrigan was indeed her daughter, and after she send her with us she got rid of her one night unnoticed and recplaced her. It is somewhat odd that if you accept Morrigans quest and return to the hut, Flemeth is always there, just if you show up with Morrigan, than suddenly she is not around.

I hope my fears proves wrong and they it doesn't end THAT bad for all of us, i am just getting a bad feeling about all of this.[/quote]

You missed my point. [/quote]

I didn't. Well, maybe i did, but it was unintentional I summarized a few observations of mine, throw them into a blender and created a theory or maybe nightmare of mine. Totally unrelated to anyones, ev en though it might contradicts a few posts

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...

I wasn't trying to imply that Morrigan and Flemeth are one and the same, just that Flemeth tried to make Morrigan to be as similar to her as possible. Might be so she could possess her more easily.

In that case Morrigan falling in love with the Warden or becoming his/her friend would mess things up big time, since the Warden would force Morri to face feelings she previously avoided as weakness or didn't know existed. Such a thing could make Morrigan question what she's been taught and make her follow her own path.

And I don't think they'll go for "Morrigan is Flemeth" card. That would seriously destroy the appeal of her character without really delivering a good payback. Much better, imo, to make Morri develope into her own and make her a character who shares some beliefs with Flemeth (power and survival) but also disagrees with her over other things (love and friendship). You can see that this is what is happening in Origins if you befriend or romance Morri and I hope they continue in that direction in future DA titles.

[quote]Master Shiori wrote...
Morrigan has a lot of potential as a character and Bioware shouldn't throw that away for the sake of a simple "gotcha" moment.
[/quote]

The important phrase i wanna highlight here is shouldn't. Two weeeks ago, i would have said the silent hero is something of such rpg value that BioWare and and wouldn't drop it either

Modifié par MoSa09, 21 juillet 2010 - 10:26 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Nice read, glad to see they are keeping the same morality system in 2.



With every new bit of data getting added to the pile I am starting to like DA2 a little bit more and worry less. Still have that Ent piece I wrote if they pull a manson/300 ad campaign.

[Herr Uhl]

 “There are no moustache-twirling villains,” says Darrah. “They think they’re good. They all think they’re doing something for the best reasons. They may be wrong, but they think they’re doing things for the right reasons.”

Let's hope for that.

[MKDAWUSS]

phaonica wrote...

New Article at Game Informer
http://gameinformer....gon-age-ii.aspx

Yay for something of substance for a change! Something other than fluff promo material and whatnot.

[phaonica]

Herr Uhl wrote...

 “There are no moustache-twirling villains,” says Darrah. “They think they’re good. They all think they’re doing something for the best reasons. They may be wrong, but they think they’re doing things for the right reasons.”

Let's hope for that.

Agreed! I tend to have this bias that a story-based game is only as good as its villains, that the more intimidating the villain is, or especially the more the villain can cause me to doubt myself, the better.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Personally, I wish the word "villain" would stop being used entirely and be replaced with "antagonist". "Villain" presupposes "evil". Another term I don't like using.

[MKDAWUSS]

GardenSnake wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

Screen shot is pretty awesome. But what I want to know is who the hell did she possess? She obviously switched bodies for continuity purposes (dead or not) but damn, she's like a evil witch cougar dragon lady. O:

She could simply have shapeshifted.  When you ask Morrigan about shifting into other human forms, she just says there's no value (to her) in it, but not that she can't do it.

But having possessed someone makes sense seeing as the fact that she'll be dead in some people's playthroughs. YOu could be right of course, if she survived in Origins this could be a shapeshift but if not, she possessed someone. Is it just me, or does she look kind of Chasind? I always pictured Chasind people looking sort of like that. Details like the fur shoulder pads always painted that image in my mind.

Lothering will be destroyed once you complete an ally quest, and to get the Grimoire you would have gone through the Tower and finished Broken Circle at the very least.  As Greagoir reminds us "once the doors shut there's no coming back" without completing Broken Circle.  So the game pretty much locks out the idea of killing Flemeth before Lothering bites it. 

Good point, but that means that she looks different for Hawke just because Bioware wants her to? Come on, that just sucks. But seeing as the fact that the game spans ten years, we could potentially see her as an old hag again. Having her as a potential party member does intruige me. Especially if she at one point mentions being killed by a tall dark and handsome Grey Warden  

Still not as good as actually playing as the Warden though......

Flemeth looks different on the Grimoire quest than pre-Lothering. OK, so it's a minor difference (clothing change), but....

[MKDAWUSS]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Personally, I wish the word "villain" would stop being used entirely and be replaced with "antagonist". "Villain" presupposes "evil". Another term I don't like using.

And antagonist is a lot more relative.

[phaonica]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Personally, I wish the word "villain" would stop being used entirely and be replaced with "antagonist". "Villain" presupposes "evil". Another term I don't like using.

And antagonist is a lot more relative.

You are right, of course, "villain" is an oversimplification.
Most video games I've played have a very definite *antagonist*, and there is little question that you just kill the bad guy and the day will be saved. My personaly favorite games are the ones where this question isn't so clearly answered (Xenogears, Lunar: The Silver Star, Morrowind, and of course DAO come to mind).

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I think Flemeth possessing several forms and being able to change at will, increases her mystique and mysterious nature. So I don't mind that move. What I would mind however is too much change for Morrigan.

Read in the DA2 forum and liked:  "I'm starting to think Flemeth is like the smoke monster in Lost.  You have no idea what it is, but it controls everything."

I doubt Flemeth controls everything, but she's a mover for sure.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Personally, I wish the word "villain" would stop being used entirely and be replaced with "antagonist". "Villain" presupposes "evil". Another term I don't like using.

I think that he means it as an antagonist judging from the rest of the interview. So in this case it is only semantics.

[MoSa09]

Addai67 wrote...

We have no idea what's going on so it's hard to say.  Flemeth is an abomination, though, and not just a shapeshifter, so I would think she can appear as she wants to appear basically.  She wanted the Wardens to trust her, maybe she wants to scare Hawke.  Too sketchy at this point to say.

To repeat Mary Kirby: Flemeth is a thousand years old abomination that is both the young seducing witch and the old hag. In Origins, she just showed that face to the Warden and played that part so that he doesn't suspect she might have sedond thoughts sending her daugher with him.

Flemeth is more than just that old witch of Origins, she already was throughout Origins, we just never got to know the other faces of her throughout the game.

Modifié par MoSa09, 21 juillet 2010 - 11:03 .

[MKDAWUSS]

MoSa09 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

We have no idea what's going on so it's hard to say.  Flemeth is an abomination, though, and not just a shapeshifter, so I would think she can appear as she wants to appear basically.  She wanted the Wardens to trust her, maybe she wants to scare Hawke.  Too sketchy at this point to say.

To repeat Mary Kirby: Flemeth is a thousand years old abomination that is both the yound seducing witch and the old hag. In Origins, she just showed that face to the Warden and played that part so that he doesn't suspect she might have sedond thoughts sending her daugher with him.

Flemeth is more than just that old witch of Origins, she already was throughout Origins, we just never got to know the other faces of her throughout the game.

And that would lead to the question of, "How much does Morrigan know and what all did Morrigan see?"

But then, considering the DR, she had to be in on the act...

[MoSa09]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And that would lead to the question of, "How much does Morrigan know and what all did Morrigan see?"

But then, considering the DR, she had to be in on the act...

Interesting question. I guess its fair to say Morrigan does not know everything. Flemeth does not appear to be open minded person who would willingly share her intimate secrets with her family. I bet there are many many things Morrigan does not know.

On the other hand, Morrigan certainly knew more than she told us, not just about the Dark Ritual, but also about Flemeth and the greater scheme of things.

Which leads to the last and most confusing thing. If you killed Flemeth and helped Morrigan to get rid of her mother, it just does not make sense to continue the Dark Ritual. She even frankly tells us its all Flemeth idea, and still she follows along, despite having finally been freed from her influence just recently.

Within the knowledge of Origins, we don't know enough to guess if Morri was fooling us, was fooled herself, had her own agenda or something i can not even imagine at the moment. Nothing makes perfect sense in the Dark Ritual with the Origins based knowledge, leaving me clueless.

If we will ever get a proper and satisfying explanation... I have my doubts

[MKDAWUSS]

MoSa09 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

And that would lead to the question of, "How much does Morrigan know and what all did Morrigan see?"

But then, considering the DR, she had to be in on the act...

Interesting question. I guess its fair to say Morrigan does not know everything. Flemeth does not appear to be open minded person who would willingly share her intimate secrets with her family. I bet there are many many things Morrigan does not know.

On the other hand, Morrigan certainly knew more than she told us, not just about the Dark Ritual, but also about Flemeth and the greater scheme of things.

Which leads to the last and most confusing thing. If you killed Flemeth and helped Morrigan to get rid of her mother, it just does not make sense to continue the Dark Ritual. She even frankly tells us its all Flemeth idea, and still she follows along, despite having finally been freed from her influence just recently.

Within the knowledge of Origins, we don't know enough to guess if Morri was fooling us, was fooled herself, had her own agenda or something i can not even imagine at the moment. Nothing makes perfect sense in the Dark Ritual with the Origins based knowledge, leaving me clueless.

If we will ever get a proper and satisfying explanation... I have my doubts

The DR DID save the Warden's life... As for the rest, yeah, I agree, the whole disappearing act doesn't make sense, especially if they were a couple.

[Giggles_Manically]

The main reason I cant do the DR is not that I super fear the consequences (with some thought now) but because even as a lover or a friend Morrigan wont tell me what is going on. When a person's soul hangs in the balance and you care more for your own ends that is just wrong.



If the warden isint meant to know then ok, tell them that. She just says she dosent want to tell you and that kinda hurts knowing that all the trust you put into her, she dosent put back into you,

[Addai]

MoSa09 wrote...

Which leads to the last and most confusing thing. If you killed Flemeth and helped Morrigan to get rid of her mother, it just does not make sense to continue the Dark Ritual. She even frankly tells us its all Flemeth idea, and still she follows along, despite having finally been freed from her influence just recently.

If you believe Morrigan, then it's logical to think that the god baby could help her defend against Flemeth.  Turning the tables on mommie dearest, IOW.  The Revelations comic shows that if she has friendship or romantic feelings for the Warden, she also genuinely wants to help you.

[MoSa09]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

The DR DID save the Warden's life... As for the rest, yeah, I agree, the whole disappearing act doesn't make sense, especially if they were a couple.

But saving the Wardens life also just makes sense if she felt a connection to the Warden. She even admits, saving your life is welcome consequence but not the intention of the Dark Ritual. She was not send along just to safe your life, Flemeth had different things in mind than saving this poor guy or girl.

So, still leaves the question: she might do it because it saves your life, but she didn't come along because of that. And even now, that is not the only reason she does this. Just what her seconds thought are and who fools whom and why, oh why all of this is happening, makes no sense at all to me.

@Addia: that is one possible explanation. But she also says the baby is the symbol of something different, of a different kind of life. That does not sound like its directed towards Flemeth, more towards the chantry and her rules regarding magic. In the end, all is possible.

@Giggles_Manically: Said it before, i believe its not her but Gaider speaking. Sorry guys, we want to leave you in the dark here, so she has no infos but some useless trash talk that doesn't make sense and is out of character. Besides, my Warden also had the vain hope she could change her mind in the very last second, and i tired hard to achieve this. Besides, i am a mad man, i could never turn her down. My Cousland was deeply in love with her

Modifié par MoSa09, 21 juillet 2010 - 11:24 .

[Addai]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If the warden isint meant to know then ok, tell them that. She just says she dosent want to tell you and that kinda hurts knowing that all the trust you put into her, she dosent put back into you,

It's just my take, but I believe she thinks she is protecting you by not telling you.  And by leaving, too.

[Giggles_Manically]

Ok if she is protecting the Warden addai why dosent she say its to dangerous, she just says I never want to be seen or interfered with again.

[adneate]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok if she is protecting the Warden addai why dosent she say its to dangerous, she just says I never want to be seen or interfered with again.

Well in all fairness the DR got smashed with budget cuts and it didn't turn out how Gaider wanted it to at all, it was supposed to have been much more varied with Morrigan's reaction based on the actions of the player. All we got was pretty much a one size fits all rush job that left too many questions and made Morrigan seem far colder and uncaring than she could have been. The Revelations comic shows just one of the many scenes that were cut, it only involves a Female Warden in a romance with Alistair and friends with Morrigan.