16183 réponses à ce sujet

[MKDAWUSS]

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If the warden isint meant to know then ok, tell them that. She just says she dosent want to tell you and that kinda hurts knowing that all the trust you put into her, she dosent put back into you,

It's just my take, but I believe she thinks she is protecting you by not telling you.  And by leaving, too.

Saving him from himself?

[MoSa09]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok if she is protecting the Warden addai why dosent she say its to dangerous, she just says I never want to be seen or interfered with again.

One of the most popular explanations back a few months ago was the taint. Old gods rest beneath the earth until they are found by the darkspawn. They corrupt the still pure gods and turn them into archdemons. These are facts so far.

Now, that speculations assumes as the baby is a somewhat reborn old god, the presence of his tainted father could re-create that process and taint him once gain. Of course, you could argue she could have told you this.

I repeat my point. What that baby is all about and why she is leaving serves two purposes:

First, they want to make this decisions as difficult and as ambiguous as possible. Therefore, from a storytellers perspective, she could just give no satisfying explanation to not spoil the moment.

Secondly, the whole Dark Ritual revelation is delayed for a grand revelation during a later time, therefore, again from a storytellers perspective, they gave you as less information as possible.

Bluntly speaking, the storytelling goal forced the writers to limit the information you as a player may receive below a limit that fits the scene as well as the characters involved to achieve their goal. This is a storytelling moment to create drama, not two characters playing their personalities and their relationship. Its not Morrigan hiding information, its the writers hiding information to create drama and delay the great revelation for later.

[Addai]

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If the warden isint meant to know then ok, tell them that. She just says she dosent want to tell you and that kinda hurts knowing that all the trust you put into her, she dosent put back into you,

It's just my take, but I believe she thinks she is protecting you by not telling you.  And by leaving, too.

Saving him from himself?

She's an apostate- there is no place in society for her or her child.  She'll be hunted by templars and by Flemeth.  Not that the Warden could not handle any of this, but the vibe I get from Morrigan is that she sees this as a duty and she will not drag the Warden into it even if personally she is tempted.

[GardenSnake]

adneate wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Ok if she is protecting the Warden addai why dosent she say its to dangerous, she just says I never want to be seen or interfered with again.

Well in all fairness the DR got smashed with budget cuts and it didn't turn out how Gaider wanted it to at all, it was supposed to have been much more varied with Morrigan's reaction based on the actions of the player. All we got was pretty much a one size fits all rush job that left too many questions and made Morrigan seem far colder and uncaring than she could have been. The Revelations comic shows just one of the many scenes that were cut, it only involves a Female Warden in a romance with Alistair and friends with Morrigan.

That comic was awesome. Great art and we got to see more of a sensitive Morrigan, great stuff.

Read the article and I can say that as happy as I am that they're keeping the morality system the same as it was in Origins, I'm still a bit pissed off about the article. So you wont touch your morality system, but pretty much everything else you're throwing out the window? GREAT...........

[GardenSnake]

Addai67 wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

If the warden isint meant to know then ok, tell them that. She just says she dosent want to tell you and that kinda hurts knowing that all the trust you put into her, she dosent put back into you,

It's just my take, but I believe she thinks she is protecting you by not telling you.  And by leaving, too.

Saving him from himself?

She's an apostate- there is no place in society for her or her child.  She'll be hunted by templars and by Flemeth.  Not that the Warden could not handle any of this, but the vibe I get from Morrigan is that she sees this as a duty and she will not drag the Warden into it even if personally she is tempted.

Ya well, there's obviously something sinister going on if she doesn't want to tell you. Chances are that just wanting a kid that has the soul of an old god for no reason isn't a part of Morrigan's plans for the future. She could potentially not want to get the Warden involved for fear that she'll have Flemeth, the templars AND the Warden's on her ass trying to hunt her down. Her plans could be so sinister (deathstar, I'm telling you people, that's her awesome plan. It's fail proof except for that one small design flaw ) that even a Warden that truly loved her would realize that the plan is just too dangerous to Fereldan and possibly all of Thedas to allow. This had better get resolved, WITH THE WARDEN.

[Brockololly]

In case anyone hasn't waded into the DA2 forums, here is the relevent stuff from today- kind of a big post:

LOTS of New Screens! (and some old ones in higher res)- courtesy of Gamersplus.de






















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And from this thread details from a Russian magazine:

Sauronych wrote...

Update: a higher res available, thanks to javierabegazo and ViSeirA:

That scene takes place during the first minutes of the game.

More info:

1) The article has a description of a magic fatality. "A giant black hand grabs an ogre and squeezes the blood out of him".

2)
It also says that DA2 is 3 times longer than DAO(!!!), though I'm almost sure the journalists are mistaken on that part, probably because  Bioware told them about the 10-year span of the story. That doesn't  necessarily mean that the game itself will be longer.

3) Matt Goldman, the art director, lists two major inspirations for the new art style. This picture(for the atmosphere of "a horde of horrible and merciless creatures coming from nowhere"


And this movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050613/ (a more simplified and abstract background to concentrate viewer/player's attention on the characters and important details)
Matt also made a remark that this doesn't mean the whole game will have  simple environments like the desert we have seen. Everything is still very detailed, just more stylized.

4) An example of more dynamic combat. When you order an archer to shoot a target, he already  has an arrow ready for that so he can act almost instantly instead of  pulling the arrow out of the quiver etc.

Gaider confirms if you didn't do the DR, MOrrigan won't find another way:

From this thread titled, "How Morrigan can get the child even if you refuse the Ritual," Gaider says this:

David Gaider wrote...

May I put this to rest?

If the player didn't do the Dark Ritual, or didn't get Alistair or Loghain to do it, then it wasn't done. Had Morrigan figured out some way to otherwise do it, then nobody would have died when the Archdemon was
slain. If she had some way to go about getting the Archdemon's soul without resorting to the Dark Ritual as she proposed it, then why did she go through all the trouble?

We could undoubtedly come up with some complex Plan B on Morrigan's part whereby she gets the Archdemon's soul but has to do something far more terrible-- but a)  that removes the player's agency in the biggest single choice of Origins and would probably be pretty lame.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 juillet 2010 - 12:40 .

[soignee]

oh man the landscapes are sexy. What is it of, I wonder? Weisshept?

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

Gaider confirms if you didn't do the DR, MOrrigan won't find another way:

From this thread titled, "How Morrigan can get the child even if you refuse the Ritual," Gaider says this:

David Gaider wrote...

May I put this to rest?

If
the player didn't do the Dark Ritual, or didn't get Alistair or Loghain
to do it, then it wasn't done. Had Morrigan figured out some way to
otherwise do it, then nobody would have died when the Archdemon was
slain. If she had some way to go about getting the Archdemon's
soul without resorting to the Dark Ritual as she proposed it, then why
did she go through all the trouble?

We could undoubtedly
come up with some complex Plan B on Morrigan's part whereby she gets the
Archdemon's soul but has to do something far more terrible-- but a)
that removes the player's agency in the biggest single choice of Origins
and would probably be pretty lame.

It would have been one hell of a placebo if she'd done it anyways.

The city with the white walls, is that Kirkwall?

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

oh man the landscapes are sexy. What is it of, I wonder? Weisshept?

I think Weisshaupt is to far away from The Free Marches.

[Brockololly]

soignee wrote...

oh man the landscapes are sexy. What is it of, I wonder? Weisshept?

Good question- I'm wondering if those are in game or just concept art- bravo if thats in game though. ALthough they look a bit too sterile- hopefully they dirty those locales up and fill them with people.

I'm getting sort of a Greek/Roman/Italian vibe, almost like Assassin's Creed 2 in some of the city ones. Maybe its Kirkwall? The whole city state thing with the Free Marches is kind of ancient Greece...

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

soignee wrote...

oh man the landscapes are sexy. What is it of, I wonder? Weisshept?

Good question- I'm wondering if those are in game or just concept art- bravo if thats in game though. ALthough they look a bit too sterile- hopefully they dirty those locales up and fill them with people.

I'm getting sort of a Greek/Roman/Italian vibe, almost like Assassin's Creed 2 in some of the city ones. Maybe its Kirkwall? The whole city state thing with the Free Marches is kind of ancient Greece...

Considering that all other imperial structures we've encountered thus far is white I say Kirkwall is likely. (being built by them and all that)

[Brockololly]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Considering that all other imperial structures we've encountered thus far is white I say Kirkwall is likely. (being built by them and all that)

Good point- cause Kirkwall was Tevinter for a long time, right?

[Herr Uhl]

Brockololly wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Considering that all other imperial structures we've encountered thus far is white I say Kirkwall is likely. (being built by them and all that)

Good point- cause Kirkwall was Tevinter for a long time, right?

One of the last cities to fall. The walls and infrastructure may still be intact.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Ooooh, Kirkwall (at least I think it's Kirkwall) looks nice!

[Herr Uhl]

Whatever city it is it kicks Denerim's ass any day.

[MKDAWUSS]

I take it that from the wall of screens, that entire sequence involves Hawke and party fighting darkspawn after darkspawn until a HD appears and shapeshifts into the ironclad woman, presumably to bail them out.

[GardenSnake]

Game is three times longer? I find that really hard to believe. As for the screen shots, the ones of the cities and landscapes do look very good. Snake is pleased.

[Herr Uhl]

GardenSnake wrote...

Game is three times longer? I find that really hard to believe.

That would mean that it is bigger than BG2. In 3D no less.

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...

Gaider confirms if you didn't do the DR, MOrrigan won't find another way:

From this thread titled, "How Morrigan can get the child even if you refuse the Ritual," Gaider says this:

David Gaider wrote...

May I put this to rest?

If
the player didn't do the Dark Ritual, or didn't get Alistair or Loghain
to do it, then it wasn't done. Had Morrigan figured out some way to
otherwise do it, then nobody would have died when the Archdemon was
slain. If she had some way to go about getting the Archdemon's
soul without resorting to the Dark Ritual as she proposed it, then why
did she go through all the trouble?

We could undoubtedly
come up with some complex Plan B on Morrigan's part whereby she gets the
Archdemon's soul but has to do something far more terrible-- but a)
that removes the player's agency in the biggest single choice of Origins
and would probably be pretty lame.

It would have been one hell of a placebo if she'd done it anyways.

The city with the white walls, is that Kirkwall?

So, how do they expand the story of the DR if there is the potential that it didn't even happen? Don't get me wrong, I like that it isn't being considered canon ... but consider that if there is potentialy the anime or an expansion that could cover it, would that be considered an AU story? Or just a potential story that isn't canon?

Modifié par phaonica, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:05 .

[Brockololly]

Some random thoughts:

I'm not caring for the darkspawn, especially hurlock redesign. Ignoring the fact that the armor looks terrible, they don't look like monsters anymore, they look like chalky zombies. The darkspawn flesh is supposed to be dark- thats kind of an important point. While the darkspawn looked a bit too Tolkien-ish orc like in Origins,  I think they went too far the other way in making them look like their respective original race. Somewhere in the middle would be better- keep the human/qunari characteristics, but make them more blighted looking and not pasty white. And again, the S&M armor is just dumb- even if its supposed to be scrappy, it just looks terrible both design wise and technically in game.

Whats up with the armor? I know we'll have super spiky and blocky everything, but on Hawke's armor and the darkspawn armor, right on the chest plate is a piece of armor that juts forward. It reminds me of Isaac's armor in Dead Space:



Is there any historical reason for that jutting piece of armor that I'm not aware of? Or did DA just chat with their EA buddies at Visceral and share armor?


Hawke can fly? After seeing the screen of Hawke leaping towards the darkspawn and some of the chatter about combat being "instant" I'm wondering something. Is Hawke going to be dashing and leap frogging like a bad anime guy when in combat mode? I'd like it if the combat at least tried to stay somewhat grounded, but the whole "combat is more responsive" talk has me thinking that if you click an enemy to attack thats far away, we'll see Hawke slashing and leaping like a mad man towards the target... gameplay will help clear this up.


Bosch!? Kurosawa!? I'm on the fence on the art- on one hand, Goldman is name dropping my homeboy Bosch- and if they want a nightmare feel, Bosch is the man. And then he's bringing up Kurosawa's Throne of Blood. I know of Kurosawa but have only seen Seven Samurai. From a quick googling, Throne of Blood is basically a retelling of MacBeth? So what should we take from Goldman saying that they're borrowing simplified backgrounds in the style of Throne of Blood? Looking at some of Throne of Blood it seems its a very foggy movie, as far as backdrops go- and the ever present fog was one of my problems with the landscapes of DAO- its a cheap way to ignore nice vistas and landscapes.

Flemeth? I'm digging what they're doing with Flemeth. I love how her dragon form and human form have so much alike, from the similar colors to the horns and all. Maybe its just the screen, but whats the deal with her face? It looks nothing like Flemeth from Origins facial structure wise. I know she can shape shift, but it worries me that they'll go about remodeling old companion's faces too....

I just want some consistency in the art we had from Origins going into DA2- I want Lothering to still look like Lothering. I want Morrigan to still be recognizable as Morrigan, visually and not just by voice. Ferelden should still look like Ferelden and not some barren desert. But given how they butchered the now "chalkyspawn," I have no idea what they're going for visually. I just fear they'll change stuff up for the sake of change and it all just ends up like the Dragon Age Redesigned Mod- like someone just plopped some facemorph on your old companions and is trying to pass them off as the old ones.

DA2 3 times longer?!? Ummm...no. I will gladly eat my words if DA2 is THREE times longer than Origins. I think thats clearly a mistake there- likely meant, that the timespan was much longer in game than Origins. Given the player VO, I'd guess the game will be on average 30-40 hours to complete, much like ME2.

Gaider and Morrigan's DR: Phaonica brings up a good point- how big of a role can the Old God Baby be if it won't be in any US universes? It should be added though that BioWare will have an established canon for new players in DA2, so if the DR is canon or default there, that should be something to go off of. I 'd just hate it to see some sort of ME style wishy washy continuity on that front. Like revisting Wrex in ME2- if you killed him in ME1, you basically get a generic ruler in ME2 but Wrex only has a couple unique lines of dialogue.

Personally I hope this means the tale of Morrigan goes in 2 wildly divergent paths- how cruel would it be if the only way our Wardens could get a "happy" ending was by turning Morrigan down? Have us DR people messed up already? Having said that the DR was the single most important choice in Origins, I hope Gaider and BioWare treat it as such going forward and don't just hack it down into some side quest.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:29 .

[GardenSnake]

Herr Uhl wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

Game is three times longer? I find that really hard to believe.

That would mean that it is bigger than BG2. In 3D no less.

But Holmes, how did you figure it out?

[Kryyptehk]

You know what, if DA2 is three times longer than DA, I probably won't play it. I was having game fatigue by the end of DA, with Bownammar and the Brecillian Forest. Unless the "three times longer" refers to romances, side quests, etc.

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...
Having said that the DR was the single most important choice in Origins, I hope Gaider and BioWare treat it as such going forward and don't just hack it down into some side quest.

Agreed, him saying that got my hopes up.

Has anyone tried the 360 patch btw? I heard that it freezes the game and corrupts save files and or dlc on the Elite and Slim models. Anybody having problems? The older versions of the 360 are apparently unaffected, whihc would be awesome.

[phaonica]

Brockololly wrote...


Flemeth? I'm digging what they're doing with Flemeth. I love how her dragon form and human form have so much alike, from the similar colors to the horns and all. Maybe its just the screen, but whats the deal with her face? It looks nothing like Flemeth from Origins facial structure wise. I know she can shape shift, but it worries me that they'll go about remodeling old companion's faces too....

The roundness in Flemeth's new face makes me think of the Sacred Ashes trailer. Wonder if Morrigan could end  up looking more like she did there?

I just want some consistency in the art we had from Origins going into DA2[/b]- I want Lothering to still look like Lothering. I want Morrigan to still be recognizable as Morrigan, visually and not just by voice. Ferelden should still look like Ferelden and not some barren desert. But given how they butchered the now "chalkyspawn," I have no idea what they're going for visually.

Chalkspawn. Heh.

I'm just going to go with the flow on the graphics front. If the game is fun to play, then I won't complain about the graphics.

Gaider and Morrigan's DR: Phaonica brings up a good point- how big of a role can the Old God Baby be if it won't be in any US universes? It should be added though that BioWare will have an established canon for new players in DA2, so if the DR is canon or default there, that should be something to go off of.

There probably would be some kind of Origins-less canon for new players to go off of, but when you consider Awakening, the Architect-Mother story was going to occur no matter what, so it could be a major plot point for any warden. The DR can't be a major plot point for any Hawke, because unlike the Architect's story, the Warden can prevent that story from occuring altogether.

Personally I hope this means the tale of Morrigan goes in 2 wildly divergent paths- how cruel would it be if the only way our Wardens could get a "happy" ending was by turning Morrigan down? Have us DR people messed up already? Having said that the DR was the single most important choice in Origins, I hope Gaider and BioWare treat it as such going forward and don't just hack it down into some side quest.

Yeah, Mr. Gaider called the DR the "the biggest single choice of Origins". I don't think he'll water it down. Whatever it is, I think it'll be big. I can't remember where I saw him describing what he considered a "gotcha" moment...  balancing plot twists with what gamers will find to be fun and acceptable can't be easy.  Honestly, when they decided to include the DR at all, they surely had some kind of idea of how to implement its conclusion well in advance.

Modifié par phaonica, 22 juillet 2010 - 02:09 .

[MKDAWUSS]

IRT "Hawke can fly" - note that in Origins our characters possessed some nice vertical stats when finishing off ogres, broodmothers, and high dragons.



As to the DR - I think what they're trying to do is navigate the mess of keeping it important, but at the same time, not throwing anyone's storylines under the bus. Basically, they're trying to please all camps, since canonizing the DR is going to create outrage for anyone who did any of the sacrifice endings, and trivializing it is going to create outrage over those who did it.



The best way to handle the DR would be too resource-intensive, since you'd be making one version with the DR and one without. The cheap compromise would be to have the DR exit stage left and have it lost in obscurity. The worst thing to do would be to throw one or both camps under the bus.