16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's get it back on topic, please.

Are you kidding??  Discussing the development of the Old God Baby and Morrigan's story is considered off-topic in a Morrigan thread?

That's... interesting.

[Brockololly]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Let's get it back on topic, please.

But.... I was discussing Morrigan and the Old God Baby in DA2.....??? Thats not Morrigan enough?
Morrigan pic  courtesy of Ximena, to keep the discussion on Morrigan on topic.....about Morrigan.....???


Edited the thread name, to make sure we keep on topic, seeing as we're moving beyond Origins and Awakening and are all about Morrigan....

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 juillet 2010 - 04:08 .

[Commander of the Grey]

This might sound really stupid but has anyone discussed the theory that Flemeth might be Andraste? Or why her body in DA2 looks a bit like Morrigan's (to me anyway)? I don't know why but when I saw the screenshot, these questions popped into my head. Granted it's late and I'm sleepy so don't yell at me. xD

[Brockololly]

I'm sure its been discussed here that Flemeth could be Andraste or Fen'Harel or any number of things....Flemeth is sneaky like that...

As for her look in DA2 as all sexy-like, Mary Kirby commented a while back that given the fact that Flemeth is a 1000 year old abomination shapeshifter, she appears as different things to different people.... Ah ha- here is Kirby's quote:

Mary Kirby wrote...

She's a thousand-year-old abomination, a shapeshifter who, according to legend (and according to the grimoire you give Morrigan) seduces mortal men in order to get herself more  daughters. Her daughters are reputed to be able to kill men with fear.  She's both a seductress and a hag. She played up the hag aspect for the Warden, "Oh, never mind me, I'm just a crazy old bat who saved your  life! Go on your quest and take my daughter with you! I'm sure nothingterrible could come from that..."  But just because the Warden only saw her as the hag, doesn't mean that's all she was...

So yeah, Flemeth looks all new because of her shapeshifty-ness and they've got the new art style going on too I'd guess...and she is Morrigan's mom so there may be some familial resemblence...plus her outfit has the feathers on the shoulders, like Morrigan.

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 juillet 2010 - 04:25 .

[Commander of the Grey]

She changed into a friggin dragon and I forgot the shapeshifty part. *head desk* Am I getting her confused with Morrigan or do they not have the same level of skill? Because Morrigan states that she can't change her human appearance b/c there's nothing to learn from a human (or something close to that). Flemeth can, however? I understand she's way more powerful but you would think that the same shapeshifting rules would apply in a way.

And I guess it was the shoulder feathers that made me think 'Morrigan'...and the shirt cut.....I hope she didn't take over her body....

Modifié par Alistairschica, 26 juillet 2010 - 04:32 .

[adneate]

Alistairschica wrote...

Am I getting her confused with Morrigan or do they not have the same level of skill? Because Morrigan states that she can't change her human appearance b/c there's nothing to learn from a human (or something close to that). 

The line isn't that she physically can't change into another human form it's that she doesn't get any special power for doing so therefore Morrigan doesn't bother trying to shift into the form of other people. If she tried she probably could but Morrigan doesn't see the benefit in doing so at the present.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Flemeth being able to turn into humans could be tied into all the daughters she "ate" before maybe she could turn into their appearance or likeness, or it could also be she is much much more powerful than Morrigan.



Flemeth being Andraste; I myself wouldn't bet on it, but nothing dealing with Flemeth would shock me to much.

[Commander of the Grey]

adneate wrote...

Alistairschica wrote...

Am I getting her confused with Morrigan or do they not have the same level of skill? Because Morrigan states that she can't change her human appearance b/c there's nothing to learn from a human (or something close to that). 

The line isn't that she physically can't change into another human form it's that she doesn't get any special power for doing so therefore Morrigan doesn't bother trying to shift into the form of other people. If she tried she probably could but Morrigan doesn't see the benefit in doing so at the present.

 
Ah, okay.  It just seems that unless Flemeth could sense her (which she probably can in some sneaky way) Morrigan could just change her appearance to hide from her.  I haven't played in a long while so I could just be forgetting things but didn't Morrigan say that Flemeth gave her the ring so that she could find her if she needed to?  If she needed the ring, then maybe Morrigan would be safe in another human look. 

And thanks to both of you for replying.  And to you Brockolly for bothering to find the quote.  Appreciated.  I'm a new Morrigan fan and have been gone from the forums for a while, so I'm trying to get back up to speed.

[Commander of the Grey]

Me thinking Flemeth could be Andraste is just based on the thought that Andraste was burned(?) or some such and thinking that Flemeth is pretty much just a soul that needs another body. Well, that and she can't die it seems. Or at least, no one has killed her the right way. Her in that screenshot is just bad***.

[Brockololly]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Flemeth being able to turn into humans could be tied into all the daughters she "ate" before maybe she could turn into their appearance or likeness, or it could also be she is much much more powerful than Morrigan.
much.

Thats an interesting thought- it seems from stories and such that its not like FLemeth ever changes into a male, but always a female. And if the shapeshifting rules apply, one needs to study the soul before being able to shift into that form and having a daughter would certainly provide ample opportunity to study their soul...But no doubt Flemeth is super duper powerful.

Alistairschica wrote..
 
Ah, okay.  It just seems that unless Flemeth could sense her (which she probably can in some sneaky way) Morrigan could just change her appearance to hide from her.  I haven't played in a long while so I could just be forgetting things but didn't Morrigan say that Flemeth gave her the ring so that she could find her if she needed to?  If she needed the ring, then maybe Morrigan would be safe in another human look. 

Yeah, I guess if Morrigan needed to run away from Flemeth she could just as easily turn into a bird or something too. But given how powerful Flemeth seems to be, if she is out to get you, I don't think running will really help much. And yeah, the ring was given to Morrigan when she was younger so Flemeth could find her if need be.

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 juillet 2010 - 05:15 .

[okiness]

Why haven't I been hanging around? Morrigan is one of my favorite Dragon Age characters, dude.



The way it sounds, Morrigans best best for escaping from Flemeth seems to be the very art Flemeth has mastered. By that effect, would it truly be useful?

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Flemeth is part abomination I'm sure she could find Morrigan in the fade when she dreams if she was truly hunting her down.

[Addai]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Flemeth is part abomination I'm sure she could find Morrigan in the fade when she dreams if she was truly hunting her down.

I was wondering about that.  You think that's possible, for specific demons to find specific people in the Fade?  Maybe if they have a bond of some sorts?  I suppose it would be, since that's what happens to the companions in The Calling and in Origins.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

Addai67 wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Flemeth is part abomination I'm sure she could find Morrigan in the fade when she dreams if she was truly hunting her down.

I was wondering about that.  You think that's possible, for specific demons to find specific people in the Fade?  Maybe if they have a bond of some sorts?  I suppose it would be, since that's what happens to the companions in The Calling and in Origins.

Well Wynne says her spirit specifically chose her, but she didn't know why; I guess we would have to take her word on it since we can't really prove it one way or another that it seeked her out and chose her. I bet Flemeth could find Morrigan in the fade she has had plenty of time to practice, and she is maybe the most powerful being in Thedas. I think if Avernus can navigate through the fade to give Levi messages in his dreams. Flemeth would have no problem finding Morrigan or anyone she desired through fhe fade.

[Master Shiori]

I guess it depends on how powerfull the demon within Flemeth is. According to what we know the Fade is not free-for-all but rather is divided among the powerfull demon lords. Depending on where Morrigan ends up while dreaming, Flemeth might enter someone else's territory and spark a retaliation from that realms ruler. My guess is that demons aren't fond of sharing.



But honestly, the more likely reason is that Flemeth is no longer truly a demon or human, as Morrigan herself tells us. Therefore she might no longer be able to enter the Fade freely, like a normal demon would.

[bl00dsh0t]

Well I must say that some of the info we have been getting, very much thanks to the research monsters in here, thanks dudes and dudettes, has been slightly encouraging. It seems that the dialogue wheel is an improved version of the one in ME so perhaps we won't get as many wtf moments when we hear the reply's. Also the summary of the gameinformer article at greywardens seems to point to the combat being largely unchanged in the pc version so that problem might not be as severe as we anticipated earlier.



Still the morrigan issue is on the table and it would be weird as hell to encounter her as hawke unless they really manage to pay an homage to the warden through her and any other companions we encountered or it will feel really forced. Also flemeth could have some comments about the story so far so there is potential there that they actually succeed despite their trackrecord *cough*awakening*cough*



At least ximena still gives us morri goodness when bioware doesn't

[Master Shiori]

I remember Mike saying that Morrigan's story isn't over when asked if we'll see any characters from Origins in DA2.



I'm not sure if it means we will see Morri in DA2 or that she will appear in some other DA title. I guess time will tell.



What information we have about the dialogue so far seems to be ok. Dialogue wheel is in but isn't an exact copy of what we had in ME, while the dialogue itself if a detailed and rich as it was in Origins.



As far as combat is concerned I'll wait until they show us some gameplay footage from the pc version.

[Ulicus]

If Morrigan appears in DA2, I suspect Hawke's relationship with Flemeth and Morrigan will be the mirror image of the Warden's in the first game. Whereas the Warden was bid to attack Flemeth at Morrigan's request, my guess is that Hawke will be bid to attack Morrigan at Flemeth's.

The likelyhood of Bethany becoming Flemeth's vessel seems high, too. What's more, I can envision a scenario in which Flemeth takes control of Bethany for the express purpose of "enlisting" Hawke's aid in capturing Morrigan.

I.E. "You want your sister back? Well, sorry child, I'm not letting go of this body until you get me one even more powerful... and it just so happens that I've learnt the location of my wayward daughter. I can't defeat her in my weakened state, and you can't defeat me without killing your sister... so run along now, and bring her before me."

Modifié par Ulicus, 26 juillet 2010 - 06:17 .

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

I remember Mike saying that Morrigan's story isn't over when asked if we'll see any characters from Origins in DA2.

I'm not sure if it means we will see Morri in DA2 or that she will appear in some other DA title. I guess time will tell.

What information we have about the dialogue so far seems to be ok. Dialogue wheel is in but isn't an exact copy of what we had in ME, while the dialogue itself if a detailed and rich as it was in Origins.

As far as combat is concerned I'll wait until they show us some gameplay footage from the pc version.

don't know, they have been telling this since Origins release and the first people completed it. If DA 2 was what they had in mind all the time... Not so sure about it. But maybe this is just some vain hope they want to do better and give us more than Flemeth telling us"i killed my foolish daughter and her warden loverboy" or something like that. I would want to see her next chapter through the Wardens eyes, let it be dlc or xpac.

Or why not a dlc like Leliana's Song, that could be entertaining and interesting too

Modifié par MoSa09, 26 juillet 2010 - 06:15 .

[Master Shiori]

Well, if Morrigan was killed or possesed by Flemeth that would mean her story is over, no?



David Gaider even said we might see a reunion between the Warden and Morrigan, though that is by no means certain. Still, the fact he even brought it up means there is a possibility of seeing it happen.



The thing is Morrigan and Warden are important to us and we want to see them again asap. The writers have their own plans and will give us the reunion when they feel the time is right. Best we can do is keep letting them know how much we want to see it happen and be patient.

[bl00dsh0t]

Hehe indeed mosa, some things just would end up weird, another xpac it must be!!!!



Still though we only have around 600 posts to go till me are head to head with the old morri group! Gotta keep the ball rolling, any new redicolous theories we can punch holes in??

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

Well, if Morrigan was killed or possesed by Flemeth that would mean her story is over, no?

true indeed. Unless there is a way to rescue her. But you're right, they most probably would never said it if it was meant that way

Master Shiori wrote...
David Gaider even said we might see a reunion between the Warden and Morrigan, though that is by no means certain. Still, the fact he even brought it up means there is a possibility of seeing it happen.

he said that??? Never heard of that. He usually evades giving specific information and says something like "we'll see" or "who knows". That would indeed be good news.

Master Shiori wrote...
The thing is Morrigan and Warden are important to us and we want to see them again asap. The writers have their own plans and will give us the reunion when they feel the time is right. Best we can do is keep letting them know how much we want to see it happen and be patient.

If thats the case, i have no issues with waiting. Well, thats not completely true, as many, i would like to see this sooner than later. But if we know or have good reasons to hope something like this will be coming, i can be patient

[Fntsybks]

Ulicus wrote...

I.E. "You want your sister back? Well, sorry child, I'm not letting go of this body until you get me one even more powerful... and it just so happens that I've learnt the location of my wayward daughter. I can't defeat her in my weakened state, and you can't defeat me without killing your sister... so run along now, and bring her before me."

I like the idea, especially as it parallels Flemeth saving the Warden at Ostagar in order to have them take Morrigan along. The only problem is that Flemeth saves Hawke before the Warden has a chance to kill her, and so there has to be another reason for Flemeth saving Hawke. After possessing Bethany, however, Hawke wouldn't do anything Flemeth asked unless it related to his sister, and so Flemeth's original plan would be jeopardized. But that said, I like the idea.

[Master Shiori]

MoSa09 wrote...

he said that??? Never heard of that. He usually evades giving specific information and says something like "we'll see" or "who knows". That would indeed be good news.

This is how he said it:

David Gaider said...

Perhaps he heads off in search of Morrigan -- perhaps we even pick up on that plot in the future, who knows?

David Gaider said...

I can see why you might be attached to your Warden character and even the romance plot you pursued and perhaps the Warden's story might not be entirely done yet.

So yes, it's typical "maybe we do, maybe we don't" answer that Gaider loves. But the fact he even brings up the possibility of Warden tracking down Morrigan means it's not just wishful thinking on our part.

Morrigan will need to appear again at some point. Once she does they might as well deal with the whole romance between her and the Warden and be done with it. How they're going to do it is not known at this point, but we can be glad that it just might happen, rather than be swept under the rug and forgotten for all time.

My belief is that they realize people aren't exactly thrilled by having to move on to Hawke in DA2, so Bioware might let us get back to the Warden at some point in order to give us the closure and set him off properly.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 26 juillet 2010 - 06:58 .

[Master Shiori]

Fntsybks wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

I.E. "You want your sister back? Well, sorry child, I'm not letting go of this body until you get me one even more powerful... and it just so happens that I've learnt the location of my wayward daughter. I can't defeat her in my weakened state, and you can't defeat me without killing your sister... so run along now, and bring her before me."

I like the idea, especially as it parallels Flemeth saving the Warden at Ostagar in order to have them take Morrigan along. The only problem is that Flemeth saves Hawke before the Warden has a chance to kill her, and so there has to be another reason for Flemeth saving Hawke. After possessing Bethany, however, Hawke wouldn't do anything Flemeth asked unless it related to his sister, and so Flemeth's original plan would be jeopardized. But that said, I like the idea.

I think once Flemeth possesses Bethany, Hawke would be forced to pretty much dance to her tune if he ever wants to see his sister again. In fact this is something I can easily see Flemeth doing if she feels Hawke isn't cooperating as well as she hoped he would and is endangering her plans.