16177 réponses à ce sujet

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...

If you want a more emotional response you can pick "I just want to know where this is going" followed up by "I don't know. What do you want?"

Morrigans expression and response is quite interesting.

Yes I know about that. I already said that I was aware of that dialogue. The thing I didn't know about is that you can actually bring that topic up anywhere... but you must not have any other companion with you.

She actually suggests that you have sex with her out in the public.

Modifié par blademaster7, 10 avril 2010 - 08:20 .

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

If you want a more emotional response you can pick "I just want to know where this is going" followed up by "I don't know. What do you want?"

Morrigans expression and response is quite interesting.

Yes I know about that. I already said that I was aware of that dialogue. The thing I didn't know about is that you can actually bring that topic up anywhere... but you must not have any other companion with you.

She actually suggests that you have sex with her out in the public.

Haha!

Yes, I wouldn't put it past Morrigan to suggest something like that.

Guess I'll have to reload 1 of my earlier saves to check that dialogue out.

[Terra_Ex]

Played with the toolset myself last night (things are a lot easier than the infinity engine days), in the course of of about an hour I went from zero knowledge to fully versant and was able to correct stuff like the ring epilogue only triggering if STILL_IN_LOVE is active to triggering if she's either "still in love" or "in love" - as it should be. I thought this was a pretty logical change since it the ring epilogue slide should trigger regardless of whether you activate her final convo or not.

Anyone even the tiniest bit savvy with programming (I'm looking at you BW devs) could have and should have noticed & fixed all this crap in minutes. Plus the way the plot objects encapsulate all the variables for you (a godsend btw) means there's next to no excuse for these things not to be fixed.

The main thing though that sets my mind at ease, is I can now see and understand how morrigan ends up with
the "friendly" dialogue at the postgame stage, and tbh could add a few
conditional statements here and there to fix it up if i feel like it.

Got to say though I love the VO notes sections in the editor, some nice insights littered about the place. It's pretty sad, but the programmer in me just loves this toolset.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 10:26 .

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Played with the toolset myself last night (things are a lot easier than the infinity engine days), in the course of of about an hour I went from zero knowledge to fully versant and was able to correct stuff like the ring epilogue only triggering if STILL_IN_LOVE is active to triggering if she's either "still in love" or "in love" - as it should be. I thought this was a pretty logical change since it the ring epilogue slide should trigger regardless of whether you activate her final convo or not.

Ah... I wouldn't be too sure If I were you.... It's more complicated than it seems.

Morigan's endings are basically dependant on three different flags which are connected to each other. Just the simplest tweak could mess up her other epilogues.

The STILL_IN_LOVE flag is the only one that is connected to the dark ritual and the only flag that gives you the ring epilogue.

The speech after the dark ritual is what gives you the flag(even though it drops you to friendly).

You must go through 3 different phases to get the STILL_IN_LOVE flag.

1.Dark Ritual - Must be performed
2.Morrigan's approval must be at love

If 1 and 2 are both true then you'll get the flag by triggering #3

3.Initiate the break up speech

If you don't do the DR then the game simply won't give you the chance to get the flag that triggers the ring. If you go ahead and remove the STILL_IN_LOVE flag then you'll end up with the same epilogue in all her endings, ritual or no (if you romanced her).


Honestly... I just can't understand what the hell I typed.... I think it's too confusing

[Terra_Ex]

Theres a flag check called IS_IN_LOVE_OR_IS_STILL_IN_LOVE in one of
morrigan's files, I just changed the epilogue check to that (it was
STILL_IN_LOVE only beforehand) since imho, the ring epilogue slide should play if either is true and should not be dependant on the totally optional final conversation in Denerim - Morrigan would still love PC irrespective of whether he converses with her then. Worked for my save file at least.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 11:22 .

[Terra_Ex]

double post

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 10:59 .

[ejoslin]

 Terra_Ex, the problem with many flags is that they're WRONG.  Morrigan's is most likely NOT wrong as I'm not seeing strange behavior there, but there are even problems at that level.  One of them was giving me fits until I figured out a work-around -- Zevran's "friendly" flag actually includes "friendly and in love."  

You mentioned you know C++ -- if you want to see a joke, look at genpt_zevran_defined.  genpt_alistair_defined is almost as bad, but the zevran one will have you shaking your head.  I fixed it, and I have it available in a B2B if you're interested.
Anyway, I'll put my most recent MorriganB2B up if you want to make further changes that are compatible with the ones I've made.  No point having two people reinvent the wheel and I won't be giving Morrigan the attention she deserves.  The party_eventsb2b with Charsen's name is the most recent one of those I have, and the other almost complete B2B I have up there has the scripts and such.

Have fun with the toolset!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 01:05 .

[Terra_Ex]

Ouch, yeah I see what you mean about Zevran's nss file, literally the very first switch case - conditional checks in place that don't even alter nResult, no wonder the thing is screwed up if its defaulting to false all the time . Someone needs a serious slap for this. On a positive side, at least it can be fixed. Definitely an eye opener as to the sloppiness of the Zevran flag checking script though. I'd like to extend my congrats to yourself and other individuals responsible for repairing Zevran - I can see it was a hard slog.

The more I look at this stuff the more convinced I am that there were several people of varying degrees of competency working on this stuff. I may be interested in taking Morrigan off your hands, but with uni starting up again in a week and me already having a load of stuff on my plate, I have to be wary not to take on too much.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 01:14 .

[ejoslin]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Ouch, yeah I see what you mean about Zevran's nss file, literally the very first switch case - conditional checks in place that don't even alter nResult, no wonder the thing is screwed up if its defaulting to false all the time . Someone needs a serious slap for this. On a positive side, at least it can be fixed. Definitely an eye opener as to the sloppiness of the Zevran flag checking script though. I'd like to extend my congrats to yourself and other individuals responsible for repairing Zevran - I can see it was a hard slog.

The more I look at this stuff the more convinced I am that there were several people of varying degrees of competency working on this stuff. I may be interested in taking Morrigan off your hands, but with uni starting up again in a week and me already having a load of stuff on my plate, I have to be wary not to take on too much.

If you'd like her, you may have her!  There's no rush on any of this.  I'm pretty much done at this point, but as you know, Charsen is working on putting in the kisses, and if you'd like to fight with Morrigan in what little free time you have, that would be amazing.  Her file keeps corrupting on me when I try to work on it.  Her scripts actually look pretty good -- no glaring errors there. I had to make a couple of changes to her dialog in the party_events.dlg, but very few.

Edit: My theory on the scripts is they were rushed and hired temp workers.  But there is no excuse for the Zevran one.  The changes I made to Alistair's actually gave me some pleasant surprises when playing through the landsmeet.  

Second edit: I have Morrigan working properly in the party_events.dlg (aside from the kiss of course).  I cannot give her justice in the morrigan_main.dlg since I will miss most of her errors.  I fixed a few, but I know there are more.

Third edit: I'm going to put up a new almost-complete b2b because I made a few pretty big changes last night to it.  Not only fixing Morrigan's last line cutting off (no kiss added though), but a few more Alistair problems were fixed.

So Morri-fans, I apologize for hijacking your thread!  But I'd do it again in a second because I'm like that 

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 01:37 .

[blademaster7]

Okay.. I give up. I can't make a simple kiss to play...

It's all fine and well in the toolset but it just doesn't work in-game...

Modifié par blademaster7, 10 avril 2010 - 01:36 .

[ejoslin]

blademaster7, if you're talking about at the city gates, it's very difficult. Don't feel bad. Though some of this is quite easy, there is a lot of stuff that is quite complex.

Edit: I'm creating a new B2B right now that includes almost my entire mod (the leliana change is not in it because it's a very simple change, yet a PITA to fix since I have to load DT's B2B for it).  It should be up within the next half hour.  Feel free to play around with it.  I'm going to take the standalone morriganb2b down because, well, I'm running out of file space and I do want this available.

All I ask is if you use my B2Bs that you give me credit if you release a mod.  I have put a ton of work into fixing this mess!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 01:49 .

[Sabriana]

Terra_Ex, my knowledge of C++ is abysmal. I can only slap together the simplest of scripts and even they look as if someone vomited a bunch of words on a piece of paper. But if I can help any other way, let me know. I have only one PC running the Morrigan romance right now, and he is still in Redcliffe and has not completed even one quest, let alone a main quest.

Blade, the cut-scenes are difficult at first, but Charsen tells me that it gets easier every time he works on them. He just went to sleep, or I would've asked him about the Morrigan kiss. You are talking about the "angry" kiss, right?

[blademaster7]

I also tried doing the love-hate one.... That seemed easy enough.... but it just doesn't work for me.

How difficult would that be for programmers? I mean, 30 minutes later, Riordan pulls a breathtaking stunt in the most amazing cinematic you've seen in the game, and yet they couldn't program a kiss a bit earlier.

Screw those idiots.

Modifié par blademaster7, 10 avril 2010 - 01:52 .

[ejoslin]

I'm actually having trouble with working with Morrigan's file -- it keeps corrupting on me for some reason. However, you may just try moving that kiss to the end of the dialog (I know it wouldn't be as effective, but it would be better than nothing) and then "pasting as link" one of the default kisses where you kiss her, either inside or outside of camp.. That should work, and it would be a quick fix until you get something a bit better in place.

Edit: Urgh, the most recent morrigan_mainb2b I have up is BAD. Taking it down now. I forgot that the file corrupted on me last night before I went to bed.  Reinstalling the toolset now.  *sigh*

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 01:57 .

[Shade of Wolf]

blademaster7 wrote...

Ejoslin... I can send you my post epilogue save..

The conversation is still there...

And the guys who missed the last 5-6 pages or so.... if you read them you'll want to kill puppies.

Leave for one night and I miss out on all the ranting

[Chuvvy]

I didn't romance anyone and I got put into a random on with the redhaired bard.

[Shade of Wolf]

Slidell505 wrote...

I didn't romance anyone and I got put into a random on with the redhaired bard.

My sister romanced Alistair as a city elf, had Anora locked away, yet it still says in her epilogue that Anora and Alistair married?!
Sorry, totally irrelevant to the thread >.<

[Arlaen]

Now I'm crying... as PS3 user who won't ever be able to see the unbugged Morrigan's story...

BW has sooo disappointed me...-__-

[ejoslin]

 Ok, I just put up two new B2Bs.  They are NOT playable mods -- they need to be loaded into your toolset, and in order to do that, the files you import cannot be checked out.  The mod itself is here.

That said, I have both the (almost) complete Zevran Dialog Fix (sans the Leliana file as that is more hassle than it's worth) and the Morrigan_Main B2Bs.  Feel free to use and abuse them, but if you actually make changes and release them, give me credit.  If you want to collaborate with me on this  project, I will give you full credit.

Things that are complete or are almost complete:
Zevran at the City Gates
Alistair at the City Gates (I hope, not as thoroughly tested as it could be)
Morrigan's conversation cutting off at the City Gates.  
I am NOT putting the kisses in -- I'm not saying they're not being put in, I'm saying I personally am not doing that and since it's a lot of work, I will not raise expectations of anyone. I believe they're being put in, but I am making no promises.  My main focus has been Zevran, but I am not the only person working on this project. 
I made extensive changes to party_events, both the part at the gates and post landsmeet.
I made quite a few changes to Morrigan_main, especially where she's talking the warden into the Dark Ritual.  I ended up leaving the change in the dialog choice out when talking about the city elf's mother, because the file was giving me fits when I tried.  It IS in the export, just not in the B2B.
I made major changes to Shianni's dialog if you take your romance partner back to the Alienage (the bugs that were there were obvious if your romance partner was not Alistair).  This dialog is fixed now.
There are other changes as well, but these are the biggest ones and are the ones that affect Morrigan.

I made extensive changes to a few of the scripts surrounding both Alistair and Zevran's dialogs. These changes also impact party_events.  Since my programming experience is limited to *nix scripting, if you are a programmer and see more changes that need to be made, go ahead.  I will say, one thing that may look like an error in the zevran_defined.nss is actually a workaround.  There's a problem with that flag, and setting the line up properly caused errors for me.

I am aware of the error in party_events (the orange line at Zevran).  This is fine.  It has to be this way; I ended up implementing a workaround.

If you send me a B2B with changes to these files, make sure the changes you have made are to my B2B.

ANYWAY, I will post this information in my project details,  and I'm done hijacking.  For now!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 04:52 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Wow, you guys are amazing!
 
Knowing that story critical elements are embedded in the game, and that they either ended up on the cutting room floor, or (worse) were the oversights of underpaid programmers, is infuriating.  Had BW simply hired you guys, I wouldn't have been such a p!$$ed-off player. 

Like I've said, the romances detracted, more than added, to my gaming experience.  Knowing that it didn't have to be that way really makes me want to throw my controller through my TV!

BW, get some smarts and hire some of these folks to do your programming.  Sheesh!  They are players AND programmers and they will deliver you a finished and polished product, (or continue to churn out games that could have been high quality but end up being degraded and frustrating due to a lack of quality control, programming oversight, and proper testing.  If you try to give me that weak ass budget excuse, I'd just say that your quality control and/or ability to triage what's important needs serious refinement, or a better crew of editors (unless of course it is your intent to frustrate and anger your players--then just be honest and say so and we can go elsewhere to a more "accomodating" venue).
 
That Morrigan's story didn't have to be the way it was...well, I do have two controllers, but only one flat panel to smash.  As mad as I am aobut this element of the game, if I were Gaider I'd be really p!$$ed that the programmers had basically wrecked a good bit of my story (assuming it was a programming issue and not either purposedly edited this way or intended).

Hats off to the real testers and programmers out here in the community.

[Buddhess75]

It has been a long time since i played with the toolset and i simply don't seem to be able to make my way pack to where the dialogs reside. Could any of the people working on the b2b help me with this? As i load the package in, its blank and i cannot find the scripts/dialogs morrigan has in the main campaign.

[Shade of Wolf]

Arlaen wrote...

Now I'm crying... as PS3 user who won't ever be able to see the unbugged Morrigan's story...
BW has sooo disappointed me...-__-

I cry with you ;(

[Terra_Ex]

Sabriana wrote...

Terra_Ex, my knowledge of C++ is
abysmal. I can only slap together the simplest of scripts and even they
look as if someone vomited a bunch of words on a piece of paper. But if I
can help any other way, let me know. I have only one PC running the
Morrigan romance right now, and he is still in Redcliffe and has not
completed even one quest, let alone a main quest.
Blade, the
cut-scenes are difficult at first, but Charsen tells me that it gets
easier every time he works on them. He just went to sleep, or I would've
asked him about the Morrigan kiss. You are talking about the "angry"
kiss, right?

Well, save files would definitely be handy from anyone who can oblige  -

- one with Morrigan's Character Quest  activated.
- one before dark ritual.
- one in the epilogue chapter

- one before the speech blademaster referenced here:

blademaster7 wrote...
PC: I don't want this to end.
Morrigan: You miserable
selfish bastard..
*KISS*
Morrigan: You will regret this and so
will I. And... perhaps that is how it must be.

ejoslin wrote...

 Ok, I just put up two new B2Bs.  They are NOT playable mods -- they need to be loaded into your toolset, and in order to do that, the files you import cannot be checked out.  The mod itself is here.

That said, I have both the (almost) complete Zevran Dialog Fix (sans the Leliana file as that is more hassle than it's worth) and the Morrigan_Main B2Bs.  Feel free to use and abuse them, but if you actually make changes and release them, give me credit.  If you want to collaborate with me on this  project, I will give you full credit.

Things that are complete or are almost complete:
Zevran at the City Gates
Alistair at the City Gates (I hope, not as thoroughly tested as it could be)
Morrigan's conversation cutting off at the City Gates. 
I am NOT putting the kisses in -- I'm not saying they're not being put in, I'm saying I personally am not doing that and since it's a lot of work, I will not raise expectations of anyone. I believe they're being put in, but I am making no promises.  My main focus has been Zevran, but I am not the only person working on this project.
I made extensive changes to party_events, both the part at the gates and post landsmeet.
I made quite a few changes to Morrigan_main, especially where she's talking the warden into the Dark Ritual.  I ended up leaving the change in the dialog choice out when talking about the city elf's mother, because the file was giving me fits when I tried.  It IS in the export, just not in the B2B.
I made major changes to Shianni's dialog if you take your romance partner back to the Alienage (the bugs that were there were obvious if your romance partner was not Alistair).  This dialog is fixed now.
There are other changes as well, but these are the biggest ones and are the ones that affect Morrigan.

I made extensive changes to a few of the scripts surrounding both Alistair and Zevran's dialogs. These changes also impact party_events.  Since my programming experience is limited to *nix scripting, if you are a programmer and see more changes that need to be made, go ahead.  I will say, one thing that may look like an error in the zevran_defined.nss is actually a workaround.  There's a problem with that flag, and setting the line up properly caused errors for me.

I am aware of the error in party_events (the orange line at Zevran).  This is fine.  It has to be this way; I ended up implementing a workaround.

If you send me a B2B with changes to these files, make sure the changes you have made are to my B2B.

ANYWAY, I will post this information in my project details,  and I'm done hijacking.  For now!

Thanks for the files ejoslin, and feel free to hijack at any time. I'll definitely be looking into putting together a fixpack for Morrigan's dialogues at some point , just looking over the dialogues now and I can already see ways to fix most of the known issues.

Regarding the follow up dialogue to Flemeth's hut - back on page 20:

ejoslin wrote...
I can, this file doesn't have my other changes, but like I was saying in my edits above, I'm afraid this will break something.  You're supposed to give her Flemeth's grimoire as a gift, but with this change, you can't.  I'm thinking it was a deliberate cut, that somewhere they changed their mind.  Hmmmm, I'm getting a headache thinking about it.  I can't find the actual condition, which is strange (it's not where it looks like it should be) so I can't figure
out where and when this is supposed to trigger.

Edit: I'm thinking this is supposed to trigger if you don't kill Flemeth.  I'm going to test this and see if it does before making changes.  

Did you make a decision on how to handle this or did you leave it as is?

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 06:12 .

[ejoslin]

I left it as is. My main goal has been so far to make changes but not to change game lore. There are several bug fixing files out, but as far as I know, they do change the lore (and neither repair Zevran or Morrigan). That's fine -- I understand why they made the changes they did, but my primary goal for this ended up being bug fixes without putting my spin on the story.



However, if you have an idea of how it should play out, you probably have a better idea of it than I do.

[Addai]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

tbh that's about...1/4 the fun when romancing Morrigan, flirting with Leliana at the same time. The runaround with the two them, especially their party banters, is a goldmine of highly quotable lines.

Ah, I missed those.  My PC is a rogue with decent lockpick, so having Leliana in the party would be more useless than it usually is.  I could go back and reload (before I told Leli to take a hike) and run some of them in Orzammar.