16183 réponses à ce sujet

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...

Completely and totally off topic- but seeing DA2 go the whole 300/Conan/Heavy Metal vibe, I was reminded of this comic:

OF COURSE they had to make Zev dress like the lead singer of Judas Priest, lol.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...
I don't know.

They keep saying Morrigan's story isn't over quite a bit lately. At first I thought they were reffering to Morrigan making an appearance in DA2, but right now I 'm not so sure anymore.
I don't think they're going to wrap it up with a DLC. Most likely we're looking at Morrigan having a big role in DA3 and hopefuly we'll be able to have the reunion between her and the Warden there.

Still, I'll wait until they reveal all the information about DA2 before I come to a conclusion. Who knows, they might give us some Morri related info.

I can't imagine they'd have Morrigan sit out all of DA2 though given how her story and the potential OGB is the MAJOR loose end from Origins. To do nothing with that at all prior March 2011 and then likely wait another 2 years to 2013 for DA3 to pick up her story? I mean, I guess they could- just look at Starcraft 2 with Kerrigan and Raynor- but especially with Flemeth around, I doubt we won't hear from or see Morrigan in DA2. (I spoiled the Starcraft 2 story for myself....lets just say  I wouldn't mind the Morrigan-Kerrigan analogies necessarily now....)

I'm still thinking we may get an expansion for the 2/1/2011 thing or maybe a DLC but even then, that stuff would likely put some closure on the Warden- Morrigan situation but I still think BioWare has plans with Morrigan beyond the Warden, for better or worse.

About the 2D Art:

I love the 2D tapestry thing they have going on in DA2 it seems. It very much reminds me of BG, which is nice. It seems they're very much going for the whole primitive medieval vibe like this medieval tapestry:


Couple points- in looking at Awakening's 2D opening:


We see the archdemon there- does that compare to the dragon/hawke/kirkwall symbol at all?


On the topic of "redesigning" or "amping up" Morrigan for DA2:

Looking at the "maybe" 2D Morrigan, I don't think there is much to go from in how they might redesign her in the new art style. I agree with what Ximena deduced earlier though. Maybe they give her a more red cloak with a real hood this time? 

The whole visual retcon thing is one of my big concerns for returning characters and places in DA2. Flemeth not looking the same is ok, I guess since she has the excuse of being a shapeshifter and has been known to change her human form. Ferelden should still look like Ferelden- not some angular, spiky barren wasteland. If we see Alistair, he should look like Alistair.

Go ahead and change Morrigan's wardrobe or hair style, but don't mess with her face. Doing pointless redesigns like that just ticks people off- look at Sucker Punch trying to redesign Cole for inFamous 2, only to change him back after people got ticked at his new face.

Morrigan looks like this- end of story:


That said, if they release stuff early now, they could change things up. Keep in mind, as of October 2008, about 5 months prior to DAO's original ship date, Morrigan looked like this:



Lets just be glad she turned out more like this:):

Modifié par Brockololly, 28 juillet 2010 - 03:55 .

[adneate]

I actually do a fair bit of face modding and have several of my own NPC redesigns as well as my own custom characters made in the toolset. So while this place seems thoughly hostile to the idea of touching a single hair on vanilla Morrigan's perfect head I sorta want to do it anyway. I'd greatly enjoy getting feedback from Morrigan fans as devoted as you guys as to what the defining aspects of her vanilla design are and see if I could actually make something that both corrects some anatomical problems with the vanilla face without destroying her character in the process.


This is of course her vanilla design, this is the official BioWare morph of Morrigan loaded up in the toolset.


This is the most simple change I took the Morrigan shape slider and changed it from 100% to 50% taking off some of the downward pull on both the jawline, nose and lips.

So have I already failed or is there hope? I doubt anything you could say could possibly be meaner than what I've said of my own work, since I've flat out threw a face design in the trash after hours of work.

[Brockololly]

My problem with most of the morphs I've seen is the jaw- they try and make it too much like Victoria Johnson's or like in the Sacred Ashes trailer and IMO, it ends up looking like the bottom of her face is all squished up, and it throws the rest of her face out of balance, I think.

When you take off the downward pull on her jawline or make her cheeks and lips smaller, its just not Morrigan anymore IMO. Instead of her looking unique and exotic, she ends up looking generic.

[phaonica]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I feel the same as KoP does in regards to my fave girl in DA.

Any mod that changes Leliana I cant stand, since most come off cartoony.

I was crazy stubborn about modding Loghain, too. When I found a Loghain mod I actually liked, I felt like I was *cheating* on him and I had to revert it.
still like the mod, though, I just don't use it, heh.

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

My problem with most of the morphs I've seen is the jaw- they try and make it too much like Victoria Johnson's or like in the Sacred Ashes trailer and IMO, it ends up looking like the bottom of her face is all squished up, and it throws the rest of her face out of balance, I think.
When you take off the downward pull on her jawline or make her cheeks and lips smaller, its just not Morrigan anymore IMO. Instead of her looking unique and exotic, she ends up looking generic.

Firstly thank you for humouring me with this endeavour. Since I've never seen a proper picture of Victoria Johnson I'll avoid that pitfall at the very least. I'll keep your advice on the bottom jaw structure in mind, as well as trying the upmost to preserve that exotic look she has. I'll keep working at it and will listen intently to any suggestion or wild accusation thrown at me about Morrigan's appearance. Honestly for me this stuff is just as fun as actually playing the game so It's not a waste of time as far as I'm concerned even if the end result is everyone doesn't like it anyway, and I turn into the face of the Morrigan heretics.

[Brockololly]

adneate wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

My problem with most of the morphs I've seen is the jaw- they try and make it too much like Victoria Johnson's or like in the Sacred Ashes trailer and IMO, it ends up looking like the bottom of her face is all squished up, and it throws the rest of her face out of balance, I think.
When you take off the downward pull on her jawline or make her cheeks and lips smaller, its just not Morrigan anymore IMO. Instead of her looking unique and exotic, she ends up looking generic.

Firstly thank you for humouring me with this endeavour. Since I've never seen a proper picture of Victoria Johnson I'll avoid that pitfall at the very least. I'll keep your advice on the bottom jaw structure in mind, as well as trying the upmost to preserve that exotic look she has. I'll keep working at it and will listen intently to any suggestion or wild accusation thrown at me about Morrigan's appearance. Honestly for me this stuff is just as fun as actually playing the game so It's not a waste of time as far as I'm concerned even if the end result is everyone doesn't like it anyway, and I turn into the face of the Morrigan heretics.

I mean if you look at the first "old" Morrigan pic in my post above ( the one with Morrigan and the lightning) you can sort of see how her jaw is a bit more square- thats more like Victoria Johnson's look.

To me, what makes Morrigan, Morrigan are:
 Her eyes- not just the color, but the squinty, furrowed brow she often has.
The overall shape of her face- its kind of long, I guess but given how its sort of filled out with her cheeks, it works.
Her lips- they may be a bit big, but I think part of Morrigan's thing is that she is supposed to be super sexy and exotic looking- she isn't supposed to look like a normal hot chick,; she's supposed to look a little odd, yet hot.

Oh by all means keep at it! Perhaps you'll make a better Morrigan, as unlikely as it is you'll convince some in this thread (including me) !

Edit: one other thing I noticed in your morph- did you push her eyes closer together too?

Modifié par Brockololly, 28 juillet 2010 - 04:44 .

[Axekix]

Brockololly wrote...

I'm still thinking we may get an expansion for the 2/1/2011 thing or maybe a DLC but even then, that stuff would likely put some closure on the Warden- Morrigan situation but I still think BioWare has plans with Morrigan beyond the Warden, for better or worse.

Actually, I'm thinking the Feb release date will probably be the anime debut.  2/1/2011 is a tuesday IIRC, which is the standard weekday for new DVD releases.

adneate wrote...

I actually do a fair bit of face modding and have several of my own NPC redesigns as well as my own custom
characters made in the toolset. So while this place seems thoughly hostile to the idea of touching a single hair on vanilla Morrigan's perfect head I sorta want to do it anyway.

Eh, it's been done so  many times before.  But knock yourself out!  I'd definitely use Drac's textures for it, whatever changes you make.  His Morrigan eyes are really well done.

Modifié par Axekix, 28 juillet 2010 - 04:54 .

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

Edit: one other thing I noticed in your morph- did you push her eyes closer together too?

No the problem is the Morrigan unique shape slider controls so many features that it's hard to really tell what's moving when you touch that thing the whole face starts to shift whereas with the other sliders it'll just be one aspect of the face. Looking at the difference between the two it seems to have pushed the eyes slightly upwards in angle and took a bit of the elongated look out of them, I'll have to compenstate slightly for these two effects. I will definately be keeping this exotic look in mind when I touch anything on the morph, I'll keep working at it since it will at the very least be a nice change to how I usually make face morphs.

Edit:

Axekix wrote...

Eh, it's been done so  many times before.  But knock yourself
out!  I'd definitely use Drac's textures for it, whatever changes you
make.  His Morrigan eyes are really well done.

I like his textures as well but I'm not going to use them since I don't feel that's the reason I'm even bothering to try this, I'll be staying as vanilla as possible. Also I don't think I'll succeed in the end since people far more talented than I have already done this as you've said, just for whatever reason this stuck me as something I really wanted to do right now.

Edit: Since I hate posting after I already posted I'll just stick this here. I've been working on it for about 3 hours now and I'm done for today at least. Here's Morrigan Draft 5, I tried to make her look more realistic without taking away the features that Brock mentioned earlier.



I kept most of the same textures and tints the only major change was I darkened her tattoo and eye make-up since her eyeshadow is pink by default but I think purple might work better.

Modifié par adneate, 28 juillet 2010 - 06:47 .

[Shade of Wolf]

[quote]Axekix wrote...

[quote]Brockololly wrote...

I'm still thinking we may get an expansion for the 2/1/2011 thing or maybe a DLC but even then, that stuff would likely put some closure on the Warden- Morrigan situation but I still think BioWare has plans with Morrigan beyond the Warden, for better or worse. [/quote] Actually, I'm thinking the Feb release date will probably be the anime debut.  2/1/2011 is a tuesday IIRC, which is the standard weekday for new DVD releases.

[quote]
Anime Debut?!

[MoSa09]

phaonica wrote...

If they're planning on keeping DAO going for as long as they can... they can't do a lot of major history changes with the warden, because anything else the warden does could potentially have an influence on things that could happen in DA2. Unless Hawke is going on to do the world changing things, while the Warden keeps to some more controlled and confined story lines.

Also, I remember reading somewhere that your decisions in both Origins and Awakening will have an influence on DA2. Other than the Architect choice, I don't even remember any major choices we made... letting Amaranthine burn, maybe?

I guess that depends how much the current and possible future decisions made within new DAO content would really matter in DA 2. If Morrigan does not appear or just has a very minor role in DA 2, it would not really matter if future content would explore her story further.
I assume DA 2 will introduce some kinf of canon background story for all those players who have not played DAO and therefore can't import a save game. Same will be true for those who played Origins but not Awakening. To not take the agency away from that players, i assume the influence of DAO and DAO:A on DA 2 won't be a major one. And anything that is beyond what gets importet can be further explored by future Origins content.

Master Shiori wrote...

I don't know.

They keep saying Morrigan's story isn't over quite a bit lately. At first I thought they were reffering to Morrigan making an appearance in DA2, but right now I 'm not so sure anymore.
I don't think they're going to wrap it up with a DLC. Most likely we're looking at Morrigan having a big role in DA3 and hopefuly we'll be able to have the reunion between her and the Warden there.

Still, I'll wait until they reveal all the information about DA2 before I come to a conclusion. Who knows, they might give us some Morri related info.

Do you really think they would reveal her? Not so sure. If they reveal her, i assume her role would be somewhat limited as her appearance won't come as a surprise. At the moment, i am not so sure she would really make an appearacne at all in DA 2. I am with you they might wait for DA 3 or future Origins content. Wait and see i guess it is...

Brockololly wrote...

And I really love the 2D art as it brings me back to BG- However, the characters look a bit too primitive, but I'll maybe post more on this later with some thoughts and pictures...

Am i the only one who is thinking "your decisions of Origins and Awakening will matter" will just affect the 2D recap intro in DA 2of the former events to a great extent? So the recap summarizes what happened and mirror your decisions of Origins and Awakening, while they won't really matter like that anymore throughout the future game?

[Brockololly]

Axekix wrote...
 Actually, I'm thinking the Feb release date will probably be the anime debut.  2/1/2011 is a tuesday IIRC, which is the standard weekday for new DVD releases.

Yeah, it very well could be the anime, sadly. Tuesdays are the release date for games too. I'd just find it sort of odd for them to advertise the anime basically a year ahead of time in Awakening- and especially in such a cryptic way. COnsidering they just announced the anime in a boring press release, would they bother to hint at it with a mysterious blood dragon card? I'd like to think its a expack or DLC but who knows....

adneate wrote...
Edit: Since I hate posting after I
already posted I'll just stick this here. I've been working on it for
about 3 hours now and I'm done for today at least. Here's Morrigan Draft
5, I tried to make her look more realistic without taking away the
features that Brock mentioned earlier

.....Maybe its just the angle, but IMO, its still her jaw that looks too scrunched up and thus takes away from the unique shape her face has in the vanilla version.

I think part of the thing with Morrigan is that her features are kind of exaggerated on purpose, and that when mods try to make her look more "realistic" it just ends up with her looking more generic- its the problem I personally have with the Redesigned mod- the characters there just end up all looking the same, like supermodels or something. Sure they all may have more realistic proportions and such on their face, but they all look boring.

Keep posting more screens though!

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...

I assume DA 2 will introduce some kinf of canon background story for all those players who have not played DAO and therefore can't import a save game. Same will be true for those who played Origins but not Awakening.

Yeah, Gaider said there will be a default story for those who start new in DA2- I'll be curious if doing the DR is part of that default story...

MoSa09 wrote...
Do you really think they would reveal her? Not so sure. If they reveal her, i assume her role would be somewhat limited as her appearance won't come as a surprise. At the moment, i am not so sure she would really make an appearacne at all in DA 2. I am with you they might wait for DA 3 or future Origins content. Wait and see i guess it is...

I just have a hard time believeing that Morrigan, the face of Origins and the one un-killable character, wouldn't somehow be in DA2. I don't know to what capacity, but I just can't see them on one hand keep saying "You haven't seen the last of Morrigan" or "Morrigan's story isn't over" and then not do anything with her until 4 years after Origins was released if they wait to pick up her story in DA3 or something.

MoSa09 wrote...
Am i the only one who is thinking "your decisions of Origins and Awakening will matter" will just affect the 2D recap intro in DA 2of the former events to a great extent? So the recap summarizes what happened and mirror your decisions of Origins and Awakening, while they won't really matter like that anymore throughout the future game?

It could be- with ME2 and Awakening, I've been very disappointed how little choices really impact anything. At least with the DR and who the ruler of Ferelden is, I'd like to see DA2 actually integrate your Origins choices in some big, meaningful way. Something that really changes the game- I'm not optimistic that'll be the case, but we shall see...

[Kryyptehk]

My only problem with Morrigan is her lips. Sometimes they pull at the bottom, making her have a square mouth.



What I want to know is why a lot of the younger women, Morrigan and Leliana have the same skin, yet Leliana looks like she's in her late thirties. For some reason, her crow's feet are much more pronounced than Morrigan's or other people's.

[KnightofPhoenix]

...yea maybe the lower lip could be reduced in size a bit. That's the only thing I would tolerate.

[Kryyptehk]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

...yea maybe the lower lip could be reduced in size a bit. That's the only thing I would tolerate.

Soooo, I just made you concede that Morrigan has a flaw that could be fixed. Are you feeling okay? Or am I just that awesome? I'm thinking the latter.:Pjk jk

[MoSa09]

Brockololly wrote...

I just have a hard time believeing that Morrigan, the face of Origins and the one un-killable character, wouldn't somehow be in DA2. I don't know to what capacity, but I just can't see them on one hand keep saying "You haven't seen the last of Morrigan" or "Morrigan's story isn't over" and then not do anything with her until 4 years after Origins was released if they wait to pick up her story in DA3 or something.

Don't know. The whole Morrigan issue seems like a can of worms to me. They are the ones who hate her and would just love to kill her. Than there are the ones who hate her and might be very pissed if she features the second game as well while their love interest won't re-appear. Then there are the one who are indifferent to her and probably be equally pissed if she appears again and they won't introduce new interest characters. And what the lovers would want and think... I guess i don't need to tell you that.

To satiyfy all of them in a game that features a new hero and a new plotline? Sounds rather difficult to me. Not impossible, but most likely you will anger many people and satiyfy close to one really. Maybe they pick up her story in DA 2 again, they just won't finish it. Thats gonna happen in DA 3. I am just not sure they risk of concluding her story (which has much potential) and prominently feature her in DA 2 for reasons given above

[KnightofPhoenix]

Kryyptehk wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

...yea maybe the lower lip could be reduced in size a bit. That's the only thing I would tolerate.

Soooo, I just made you concede that Morrigan has a flaw that could be fixed. Are you feeling okay? Or am I just that awesome? I'm thinking the latter.:Pjk jk

That was actually my first reaction when I saw her in-game. But I learned to ignore it.

You made me admit that I saw a flaw in her, yes.

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

.....Maybe its just the angle, but IMO, its still her jaw that looks too scrunched up and thus takes away from the unique shape her face has in the vanilla version.

It might have been the angle, Draft 5 has pretty much the identical facial structure as BioWare's Morrigan, I actually think her jawline is very well done in the vanilla version so the challenge was not in overhauling that feature but trying to keep it while correcting some of the flaws the Morrigan shape slider imparts.

This is Vanilla Morrigan


This is Draft 5 Morrigan

Modifié par adneate, 28 juillet 2010 - 03:54 .

[soignee]

moar WiP, about another 2 hours and DONE oh thank THE MAKER fffffff

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...



moar WiP, about another 2 hours and DONE oh thank THE MAKER fffffff

The hands look fine now at least. I look forward to seeing the finished piece.

[bl00dsh0t]

It is weird that despite the so very small differences and obvious improvements it just isn't morrigan, I'm sorry adneate greate work but no cigarr I can't pinpoint what it is that just makes me go "not morrigan" but it seems that no matter how small the changes it always has a massive effect on how I perceive her. Still it is a vastly superior morph to all I have seen so far so kudos!



I got my copy of gamestar today, the german magazine that had the exclusive rights for dragon age 2 news in germany much like gameinformer had worldwide. There were no new screenshots but some of the details were a bit clearer in the graphics department. Appearantly a lot of the higher detail on the characters seems to be "bought" by reducing the amount of objects in the maps such as trees, boxes etc. Bioware claims how it makes the characters contrast better with the background but frankly it seems more like a cheap trick to hide the fact that the engine still sucks donkeyballs



What it also confirmed was that the overhead tactical view was at the moment at least getting the shaft. And yes they suspected that the console focus has been the reason for this. But at least the fact of the matter is that the pc's of today should have more than ample power to run a borderline ugly game as DA2 with a top down view so it seems laidlaw commented that few bioware games had not had extensive changes to the camera system in the last weeks of development so perhaps not all hope is lost on that front.



Also interesting was that two of the writers that got to see the game had a box where they contrasted their views on the game and it turned out to be quite the mirror image of the discussions going on in the forums: have faith in bioware vs this is not dragon age xD



Ahh well either way the need for moar info is dire, only a few weeks till we get the trailer. Perhaps that will clear some ****e up finally.

[Jarlof Seoul]

Draft 5 is not bad. Still lean towards Vanilla. I WILL FIND YOU MORRIGAN! Here's to more Morrigan subplot resolution anywhere...

[bl00dsh0t]

Hehe welcome jarlof and ill drink to that

Edit: Hehe they have announced the new dlc that was displayed at comic con: http://www.mmorpg.co...fm/videoId/1800 

Bloody funny how they capitalize on our no warden rage about da2 xD

Modifié par bl00dsh0t, 28 juillet 2010 - 06:56 .

[adneate]

bl00dsh0t wrote...

It is weird that despite the so very small differences and obvious improvements it just isn't morrigan, I'm sorry adneate greate work but no cigarr I can't pinpoint what it is that just makes me go "not morrigan" but it seems that no matter how small the changes it always has a massive effect on how I perceive her. Still it is a vastly superior morph to all I have seen so far so kudos!

Well firstly thanks for the kind words. Next you pretty much spelled out why I didn't think I'd succeed in the end since no matter how odd a facial design is if you stare at it long enough you'll eventually come to accept it. This familarity is a huge factor since if you're friend comes back with a totally different face it really weirds you out, no matter how subtle you notice it even if the change is simple like they're no longer wearing glasses when they use to. However my attempt was mainly for my own amusement and to see what you guys thought about Morrigan's defining features, now that it's out of my system I'm quite ready to do something else. However for the sake of seeing something through to the end I preset the last kick at the can Draft 6.








At the very least nobody has called for my head during this whole process.