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[Barbarossa2010]

Brockololly wrote...

Aphetto_LC wrote...

Not good news regarding how Morrigan will look if she does indeed appear in DA2.

David Gaider wrote...

For those who are concerned:

Yes, on one level the qunari look different-- just as the darkspawn look different, or the elves and dwarves look different or any other model in the game will look different. The artistic style has changed, and that will affect everything you see to one degree or another. If you met Sten now he would no doubt look different.

Would he have horns? No, he would not. We are telling you that not all qunari have horns. Is that different than what you saw before? Yes it is. We never said then that qunari could have horns, but neither did we say they couldn't. In this case both appearances are possible.

If someone wishes to say that a change in the artistic style is a ret-con, then by all means do so. We aren't saying that all qunari have horns and the ones you saw were a figment of your imagination, but we certainly could have if we'd wanted to. Is that a big deal? I don't know-- was it a big deal when Klingons in Star Trek started having carapaces on their foreheads? Maybe to some, but speaking personally I always wanted qunari to look more strikingly different-- and I really like their new look.

Maybe some people thought whatever we had before was good enough, and if people mistook qunari for large humans then that was their problem? Fair enough, but this is where we wanted to go with it. Like it or not, the look of the game is changing. We look on this as a positive development.

 

This whole sham reminds me of Prince of Persia: Warrior Within- you had Sands of Time as a well liked game and for no apparent reason other than to "amp up" the art, you end up with the goth freak Prince in Warrior Within. I really don't give a flying rat's ass about DA2 anymore- give me a Morrigan DLC for Origins then I'l cash in my chips and say adios. I'm willing to bet DA2 will be a fine game but the marketing seriously has killed my interest in this franchise. Bravo, BIoWare. You killed my interest before when you went with NWN, you're doing it again by retconning DA.

This isn't DA2- its a reboot- I wish BioWare would quit trying to act otherwise. Its embarassing.

LOL!  Bioware writers and developers doing PR is like monkeys doing algebra.  It's almost entertaining at this point to watch a company pretend you're an idiot and continue to try to convince you its daytime at the stroke of midnight.  Man BW, just admit it's a reboot and retain some dignity.

"We never said then that qunari could have horns, but neither did we say they couldn't."  
I'm just beyond words on this one.  From what you've all told me about Gaider, I expected better than blanket shameless justification.  That's pretty much a license to kill.  No wonder the DR turned out the way it did.  Good illustration here of how the Team thinks.  Nothing quite so disturbing as absolving oneself of all responsibility to the very player-base they absolutely counted on for the roll-out game.  In other words, you can't count on anything going forward and we retain the right to do as we please, fan desire be damned.  Unpredictability in a product is not a good marketing solution.

"...this is where we wanted to go with it. Like it or not, the look of the game is changing." ...and the protagonist, and the silent PC, and the conversation system, and the companions, and just about everything that you liked in Origins... .  Like it or not?  Wow, just wow.

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, Gaider continues to up the level of condescension.  I mean, he's not even trying to hide his patronizing tone with happy little emoticons anymore.  It appears it is Bioware's intent to drive off it's most loyal customers and attempt to make-up the numbers in the adolescent demographic.  It is a reboot and they are fixing everything that isn't broken.  If this is not the case, and we are merely over reacting then they better spend a little EA money on professional maketing before it's too late.  Well, it's already too late really for the many still attached to their Warden and his comanions. 

Gaider's tone is pure "like it or leave it" and it's starting to turn people off, at least when compared to the near non-existent criticism of him 6 months ago.

[Kryyptehk]

Master Shiori wrote...

Err, changes to a race that we knew precious little of doesn't mean they'll retcon how every character from Origins looks like.

And keep in mind that Morrigan spent her life living in a wilderness. It's not like she had a lot of options when it came to chose what she'll wear or what her hair will look like. Now, that she's seen civilization in more detail (DA:O) she might decide to go with a different style. As long as her face and hair color stay the same and as long as you can look at her and say "yes, this is Morrigan" than it's fine.
People change their looks even in real life and there's nothing strange about it. Sten might suddently decide to wear his hair differently and use some armor and weapons we didn't see in Origins, but he's still the Sten we know. I seriously doubt he'd have horns on his head all of a sudden.
Which doesn't mean some of the Qunari don't have horns. Gaider clearly said that those who flee Qunari society and choose their own path remove their horns, so it's no wonder we haven't seen any horned Qunari in Origins (real reason probably being the technical shortcomings that prevented them from adding horns).

Like I said before, the only character that can change drastically since Origins is Flemeth, since she can possess a body that looks nothing like her old one.
Morrigan and everyone else will need to, at very least, keep their faces as they were. Clothing and hairstyle are all subject to change and that might not even turn out to be a bad change.

Not to say that every change is a good thing, but somethimes we need to keep an open mind and not just be asume the "everything we saw in game 1 is law and cannot be touched" mentality.

As long as the faces and personality don't change things should be ok. Fashion changes all the time, no matter where you are.

Hell, if anything, if Morrigan is still wearing her outfit from Origins I will be very disappointed. I want her to wear something velvet (like Leliana described) and I'd love to see her with a different hairstyle.

And in the article where I orginally read about the horns, it said some Qunari had them and some don't. If what Gaider said is true and we will only see horns within the Qunari empire then I wouldn't mind it to much. But then why would Sten and his soldier's remove their horns if they intended to go back to their lands?

I just don't want to go into the game and see a different* Alistair, Morrigan, Zev, etc if we see them at all.

EDIT: *Different being completely different facial structure.

Modifié par Kryyptehk, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:36 .

[Herr Uhl]

Sten didn't have any horns to begin with apparently. So his horns never were.

[Shade of Wolf]

WTF? Horns?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sten didn't have any horns to begin with apparently. So his horns never were.

It makes sense that Sten and the Beresaad that were sent to investigate the Blight didn't have horns.
Perhaps they were specifically chosen to be that way, in order to avoid too much attention. Hornless Qunari attract much attention as it is, you don't want a bunch of demon looking Qunari wandering off in Ferelden.

[Shade of Wolf]

Kryyptehk wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Err, changes to a race that we knew precious little of doesn't mean they'll retcon how every character from Origins looks like.

And keep in mind that Morrigan spent her life living in a wilderness. It's not like she had a lot of options when it came to chose what she'll wear or what her hair will look like. Now, that she's seen civilization in more detail (DA:O) she might decide to go with a different style. As long as her face and hair color stay the same and as long as you can look at her and say "yes, this is Morrigan" than it's fine.
People change their looks even in real life and there's nothing strange about it. Sten might suddently decide to wear his hair differently and use some armor and weapons we didn't see in Origins, but he's still the Sten we know. I seriously doubt he'd have horns on his head all of a sudden.
Which doesn't mean some of the Qunari don't have horns. Gaider clearly said that those who flee Qunari society and choose their own path remove their horns, so it's no wonder we haven't seen any horned Qunari in Origins (real reason probably being the technical shortcomings that prevented them from adding horns).

Like I said before, the only character that can change drastically since Origins is Flemeth, since she can possess a body that looks nothing like her old one.
Morrigan and everyone else will need to, at very least, keep their faces as they were. Clothing and hairstyle are all subject to change and that might not even turn out to be a bad change.

Not to say that every change is a good thing, but somethimes we need to keep an open mind and not just be asume the "everything we saw in game 1 is law and cannot be touched" mentality.

As long as the faces and personality don't change things should be ok. Fashion changes all the time, no matter where you are.

Hell, if anything, if Morrigan is still wearing her outfit from Origins I will be very disappointed. I want her to wear something velvet (like Leliana described) and I'd love to see her with a different hairstyle.

And in the article where I orginally read about the horns, it said some Qunari had them and some don't. If what Gaider said is true and we will only see horns within the Qunari empire then I wouldn't mind it to much. But then why would Sten and his soldier's remove their horns if they intended to go back to their lands?

I just don't want to go into the game and see a different* Alistair, Morrigan, Zev, etc if we see them at all.

EDIT: *Different being completely different facial structure.

I totally agree. I hate playing games where ''better graphics'' means cosmetic surgery for companions..

[Shade of Wolf]

Morrigan's clothes are sort of a trademark of herself don't you all think? I mean, the Robes of Possession maintained the original look for a reason. That's not saying that it couldn't be an updated version of what we already have.

[Giggles_Manically]

Well if Sten had horns that would scare the hell out of most Fereldens.



Warden: NO WAIT, he isint a demon he is just a really big, blood red painted, angry looking dude with horns and claws!

Sten: Perhaps we could wait to deal with the blight, there is a certain writer who I need to speak with after he did this.



I dont really care if some Qunari have horns, they could be mutants, and Sten could have been just a normal Qunari.

[Brockololly]

Master Shiori wrote...

Err, changes to a race that we knew precious little of doesn't mean they'll retcon how every character from Origins looks like.

As long as the faces and personality don't change things should be ok. Fashion changes all the time, no matter where you are.

See, I'm not so optimistic- I won't be surprised when they do release the "Morrigan Evolved!" screens or "Hot ROd Samurai Morrigan!" screens. Games chnage the faces of the protagonists all the time unfortunately and its often for no apparent reason. In most games thats fine as the story isn't a big part- but in DA you're interacting very closely with the characters. So when they muck up Morrigan's facial structure to make her more "amped up" or to have her suit the art better  or to have her more in tune with her being a daughter of Flemeth, I can't say I'll be surprised at this point.

Gaider even said, if we were to see Sten again, he'd look different- sure he wouldn't have horns, but he'd look like the Daedra, sharp clawed Qunari minus the horns. Sadly, I can't say I'll be surprised when we see Morrigan, Alistair or any other companion and do a double take and only recognize them from their VO. Thats not a good thing.

Its like recasting the cast of Star Wars for the Empire Strikes Back. BioWare's attitude recently with wholesale changes to sequels is reminding me of Lucas and the Prequels; just because you can do something doesn't mean its a good idea. Just because you have the technology to make Jar Jar Binks or green screen everything doesn't make it a good idea. Sometimes you're better off slowly evolving rather than making huge leaps. Just because you feel like changing the entire visual look of the DA universe doesn't mean its a good idea.

I'm fine with Morrigan getting new pretty clothes or a new hair cut- fine. Just don't give her or any other Orgins companions radical reconstructive surgery for the hell of it.

[Giggles_Manically]

You dont change art styles mid series all of the sudden.



Take Law and Order, it is a realisticly fimled series, with no real super shots. If all of the sudden they busted out a Sin City version I would be going" WHAT!".



Origins was amazing since you felt like hey this is a weathered and cool place, that looks REAL. Now we are getting a Saturday Morning Cartoon, with cartoony looking people to boot.

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

You dont change art styles mid series all of the sudden.

Take Law and Order, it is a realisticly fimled series, with no real super shots. If all of the sudden they busted out a Sin City version I would be going" WHAT!".

Origins was amazing since you felt like hey this is a weathered and cool place, that looks REAL. Now we are getting a Saturday Morning Cartoon, with cartoony looking people to boot.

Precisely. I liked Origins because the whole thing seemed very grounded with the occasional magic to spice things up. Now it looks like DA2 is going over the top with fantastical creatures like the Qunari and "hot rod samurai" nonsense.

I'll be watching to see how things shape up, but with every new reveal, the interest goes down just a little more.

[Giggles_Manically]

I am really tempted to do a version of the Landsmeet, like I did with the Ents.

Can anyone send me a link to it on youtube since, youtube wont run I keep getting an security warning.

[fenderstrat6]

  Wait....... What? im playing catch-up in the forum, Why in the hell would bioware want to change so much or everything, When u have a good thing going, I don't get it, new ppl in art department maybe? they feel everything must be changed? or i'm just a idiot like the rest of u

know doubt morrigan will get a make over including her face.

Modifié par fenderstrat6, 31 juillet 2010 - 10:18 .

[StreetlightEagle]

Remember, Hawke will 'fight like a spartan'.... Dear god I do hope that is just awful marketing and nothing more dangerous.

[Jacks Smirking Revenge]

I think the fight like a Spartan thing means the flow of combat and the aesthetics for example; instead of Shield Bash then everyone swarms that guy. It would go Shield Bash and while the enemy is on the ground Sten does a curb stomp fatality. I think they are making the mage combo spell system universal, so you can mix and match and get these cool fatality badass spartan finishing moves. Which would increase the pace of the combat. Combo this guy move onto the next combo him onto the next etc. So I imagine there will be larger encounters to preserve the difficulty, but allowing the user to feel like an uber Leonidas by setting up all these awesome combos at least that is my hypothesis. I play on PC so if they keep their word I won't experience much change.



Sorry if this has been brought up, but what does everyone think of BioWare saying they have a "canon"; I'm sure he meant to say default and not canon, but I wonder what it is going to be. My bets are on a "good guy" Male Cousland who did the DR and made Alistair King.

[GardenSnake]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...
My bets are on a "good guy" Male Cousland who did the DR and made Alistair King.

Pretty much my first playthrough right there....

Modifié par GardenSnake, 31 juillet 2010 - 02:39 .

[phaonica]

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Sorry if this has been brought up, but what does everyone think of BioWare saying they have a "canon"; I'm sure he meant to say default and not canon, but I wonder what it is going to be. My bets are on a "good guy" Male Cousland who did the DR and made Alistair King.

They probably mean default. To me, canon means something that they've decided that occurs in the story no matter what you chose. Default means something that they've decided that occurs in the story if you didn't make a choice, like if you didn't play Origins, or if you played Origins but not Awakening.

I'm thinking about this default thing. Does this mean that you have to play Origins from beginning to end to get different results in DA2? I mean, for example, what if I want to replay DA2 with a different Orzammar king, but I don't want to play through Origins again in order to do that?

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...

Jacks Smirking Revenge wrote...

Sorry if this has been brought up, but what does everyone think of BioWare saying they have a "canon"; I'm sure he meant to say default and not canon, but I wonder what it is going to be. My bets are on a "good guy" Male Cousland who did the DR and made Alistair King.

They probably mean default. To me, canon means something that they've decided that occurs in the story no matter what you chose. Default means something that they've decided that occurs in the story if you didn't make a choice, like if you didn't play Origins, or if you played Origins but not Awakening.

I'm thinking about this default thing. Does this mean that you have to play Origins from beginning to end to get different results in DA2? I mean, for example, what if I want to replay DA2 with a different Orzammar king, but I don't want to play through Origins again in order to do that?

I'm about 99.9% sure Laidlaw meant "default" as in it will be the established story of Origins for those who didn't import from DA2 or are just starting new. If Awakening is anything to go by, its likely we'll have Alistair as king and as for the DR? I can't imagine they'd pass up the DR as being "canon" for non-imported players.  Although, if the DR is not set as canon for new players, that really puts a damper on any hope of the OGB having any meaningful impact on the world.

I'm really doubting how much of an impact the import will actually matter in DA2. At most since the world is on the brink of war, maybe you'll have to directly negotiate with some of the power players in Ferelden later in the game- so maybe Behlen or Alistair and some of those guys make a difference. Really the 2 big choices are the DR and who is ruling Ferelden.

If ME2 is anything to go by, the rest of Origins' choices will likely only be referenced as historic events maybe. Or maybe instead of hearing old events from overhead announcements, they'll have town criers talking about stuff from Origins.

But it seems like the Game Informer coverage is done. Does anyone get the UK PC Gamer magazine? The September issue has DA2 on the cover and should be out soon- I'm curious if there is any PC centric news there?

Other than that, Tuesday the 3rd is EA's quarterly financial report, so maybe double check to see if DA2 is still set for March or maybe they hint at another expansion pack there. And then we're probably waiting until the 17th for the trailer, but then on the 10th we have that Golems of Amgarrrabajibbajaba DLC. ANd hopefully, BioWare goes to Gamescom with the PC version of DA2 for all to see.

[Swoo]

StreetlightEagle wrote...

Remember, Hawke will 'fight like a spartan'.... Dear god I do hope that is just awful marketing and nothing more dangerous.

Nah, look at all the combat information that has come out - The game is a LOTR slasher that can be pretty easily compared to 300. So fight like a Spartan means like the Battle of Denerim, hack and slash with no effort through hundreds of darkspawn with blood and guts flying everywhere.

By the way, I heard the absolute best comparison to the graphics today; 'They Afro Samurai'd the game'. Hot Rod Samurai the graphics makes total sense now.

What's this new DLC? I saw you guys saying the Warden was in it, and you could use Origins or Awakenings saves, but is it the one where they give you an entirely new cast of companions (including a bronto of all things) instead of any continuity?

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...

Other than that, Tuesday the 3rd is EA's quarterly financial report, so maybe double check to see if DA2 is still set for March or maybe they hint at another expansion pack there. And then we're probably waiting until the 17th for the trailer, but then on the 10th we have that Golems of Amgarrrabajibbajaba DLC. ANd hopefully, BioWare goes to Gamescom with the PC version of DA2 for all to see.

I want to hear about how it's pre-selling. According to VG Charts that BBC, Forbes, Times, ect. use it's not even listing. Diablo III and Cataclysm are on there and they don't even have a hint of a release date. Then again they just about beat Dragon Age's total sales in one day worldwide for SC2 so it might not be a fair comparison.

[Brockololly]

Swoo wrote...
I want to hear about how it's pre-selling. According to VG Charts that BBC, Forbes, Times, ect. use it's not even listing. Diablo III and Cataclysm are on there and they don't even have a hint of a release date. Then again they just about beat Dragon Age's total sales in one day worldwide for SC2 so it might not be a fair comparison.

Yeah, its likely real early for preorders- most of the mainstream Bro crowd BioWare is making DA2 for has never even heard of a Dragon Age- whats that?

What I'd really want to know is how the sales for Origins broke down- did the PC sell more than the console version? The thing people forget on PC games is that for the publisher/developer, they make more revenue off of a PC game than a aconsole game since there isn't any M$ or Sony to get a cut. And then if its digital distribution through EA, its all going to them. And SC2's sales just goes to show that uf you stick with an evolve a formula and make it a PC -centric game, there is still a huge market out there.

[Swoo]

Brockololly wrote...

What I'd really want to know is how the sales for Origins broke down- did the PC sell more than the console version? The thing people forget on PC games is that for the publisher/developer, they make more revenue off of a PC game than a aconsole game since there isn't any M$ or Sony to get a cut. And then if its digital distribution through EA, its all going to them. And SC2's sales just goes to show that uf you stick with an evolve a formula and make it a PC -centric game, there is still a huge market out there.

I'm not sure about that but I can dig around. I would think that the PC's outsold console by a large amount judging by the push towards console play they seem to be focusing on this go-around. I know Origins ranked in the Top 10 almost from start to finish, usually at 6- 8 spots. Awakening topped out around 18.

[Giggles_Manically]

If I had to put money on a default story line:

Then I doubt the DR will be done. If new people come in and suddenly Satan Jr. pops up then that will be a little offsetting. Most likely the default warden did the US so as to not use him later in the series if people are new to it.



Also I just saw Inception blew my mind out my ears and I am still lost.