16177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

Will do Terra_Ex. I'll make saves along the way as well. Our modding saints discovered so much along the way, I think it's best for me to make plenty of saves.



The Zervan romance is turned off for good with my dalish. He is shaping into a very good friend. But. Lelianna? Well I don't want to get her fans up in arms, but... just....no. My dalish is utterly smitten by Morrigan. He likes Lel in a friend kind of way, but Morrigan is occupying him 24/7.



Addai will tell me what my dalish missed because of his utter preoccupation with Morrigan.

[Addai]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Well, save files would definitely be handy from anyone who can oblige  -

- one with Morrigan's Character Quest  activated.
- one before dark ritual.
- one in the epilogue chapter

- one before the speech blademaster referenced here:

blademaster7 wrote...
PC: I don't want this to end.
Morrigan: You miserable
selfish bastard..
*KISS*
Morrigan: You will regret this and so
will I. And... perhaps that is how it must be.

I sent you a save with the "miserable selfish bastard" discussion activated, and one with the personal quest active.  Hope these help.

[Addai]

Oh, new page, we need a screenshot.

Morrigan is so beautiful.  What's the female equivalent of bromance?  Jealousy, prolly.  :happy:

Modifié par Addai67, 10 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[blademaster7]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Wow, you guys are amazing!
 
Knowing that story critical elements are embedded in the game, and that they either ended up on the cutting room floor, or (worse) were the oversights of underpaid programmers, is infuriating.  Had BW simply hired you guys, I wouldn't have been such a p!$$ed-off player. 

Like I've said, the romances detracted, more than added, to my gaming experience.  Knowing that it didn't have to be that way really makes me want to throw my controller through my TV!

BW, get some smarts and hire some of these folks to do your programming.  Sheesh!  They are players AND programmers and they will deliver you a finished and polished product, (or continue to churn out games that could have been high quality but end up being degraded and frustrating due to a lack of quality control, programming oversight, and proper testing.  If you try to give me that weak ass budget excuse, I'd just say that your quality control and/or ability to triage what's important needs serious refinement, or a better crew of editors (unless of course it is your intent to frustrate and anger your players--then just be honest and say so and we can go elsewhere to a more "accomodating" venue).
 
That Morrigan's story didn't have to be the way it was...well, I do have two controllers, but only one flat panel to smash.  As mad as I am aobut this element of the game, if I were Gaider I'd be really p!$$ed that the programmers had basically wrecked a good bit of my story (assuming it was a programming issue and not either purposedly edited this way or intended).

Hats off to the real testers and programmers out here in the community.

The game has been out for about half a year and no one noticed that the most important cutscenes were missing. I just opened the toolset yesterday and saw it all there... but now I wish I never did.

There are some scripting comments that describe how the cutscenes are supposed to play. I still can't believe it... some of those things will make your heart melt. It gives a view on Morrigan's romance never seen before.

Modifié par blademaster7, 10 avril 2010 - 07:05 .

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...

There are some scripting comments that describe how the cutscenes are supposed to play. I still can't believe it... some of those things will make your heart melt. It gives a view on Morrigan's romance never seen before.

It's astounding, I agree.  Doesn't it almost make you wish you never knew?  But if modders can restore them, it will be worth rolling another male PC.

[blademaster7]

If they're modded into the game then I might roll back a save to check everything out...



Once again thanks to all the Zevran fans that are trying hard to make this possible. You guys are ridiculously AWESOME!

[Sabriana]

No, I hope that is just anger speaking, Blade. Someway or other we'll make those scenes appear. We fixed Zevran, didn't we, and he was far more broken than Morrigan.

She is a very intriguing woman. With all that we know now, she is definitely not an ice-cold beyotch, but a woman who desperately tries not to fall in love and fails miserably.

[ejoslin]

Thank Terra_Ex for morrigan changes. I really appreciate that he's going the extra mile to make something compatible with the Zevran changes and I'm sure he can give Morrigan the justice she deserves in a way that I would not be able to do. The more changes that can be implemented in one place, the better, for sure.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 07:27 .

[Terra_Ex]

@Addai67 - thanks for the saves, they'll definitely prove useful.

blademaster7 wrote...
The game has been out for about half a year and no one noticed that the most important cutscenes were missing. I just opened the toolset yesterday and saw it all there... but now I wish I never did.
There are some scripting comments that describe how the cutscenes are supposed to play. I still can't believe it... some of those things will make your heart melt. It gives a view on Morrigan's romance never seen before.

lol, its a good thing you discovered them blademaster. I don't know about hearts melting, but it certainly makes my blood boil. Though tbh, this is nothing new as far as Bioware games go:

Planescape: Torment had a bunch of unfinished stuff left in it that modders only recently finished polishing up and restoring.

BG2 likewise, Throne of Bhaal had the nerfed epilogues and final boss. I think the mod Ascension restored the ending and finale to what was originally intended. There was also an issue where NONE of Imoen's dialogues would trigger.

One thing is for sure though, one way or the other, this Morrigan stuff will make it back into the game.

ejoslin wrote...

Thank Terra_Ex for morrigan changes. I really appreciate that she's going the extra mile to make something
compatible with the Zevran changes and I'm sure she can give Morrigan the justice she deserves in a way that I would not be able to do. The more changes that can be implemented in one place, the better, for sure.

And for the record, despite rumours to the contrary and my current avatar - I'm a guy Though, you have certainly played a large part in inspiring me to get off my behind and start sorting this stuff you, so hats off to you too.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 07:26 .

[ejoslin]

Terra_Ex wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Thank Terra_Ex for morrigan changes. I
really appreciate that she's he's going the extra mile to make something
compatible with the Zevran changes and I'm sure she he can give Morrigan
the justice she deserves in a way that I would not be able to do. The
more changes that can be implemented in one place, the better, for
sure.

And for the record, despite rumours to the contrary and my current avatar - I'm a guy Though, you have certainly played a large part in inspiring me to get off my behind and start sorting this stuff you, so hats off to you too.

EEEEEP!  My apologies!  Even though it's too late to edit my original post, I'm so editing it!  In quoting you, I'm putting in strikethroughs but I'll lie in my original post and pretend I called you a guy the entire time.

*sigh*  I knew I should have asked rather than just relying on the avatar!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 07:27 .

[Sabriana]

TerraEx sounds very competent. Between all of you great people I have little doubt that things will be fixed, or at least semi-fixed. If it's compatible with Zevran, well, that's a great bonus.

The further I read through her conversations in the toolset, the more Aimo's comic makes sense. She does love him. And it's tearing her apart. It absolutely clashes with what Flemeth pounded into her.

[blademaster7]

The part where she begs the PC to break up with her is one of those dialogues that earned her the b*tch label. In truth it is the other way around.



If you play that scene you'll pretty much conclude that the PC and Morrigan are insulting each other. The toolset however, suggest that at some point they're supposed to have a passionate kiss that starts with anger and ends smoothly...



The guy who wrote that was creative. The moron who was supposed to program it, was not.

[Terra_Ex]

lol, don't worry about it, ejoslin

I'm no stranger to this kind of stuff, I have a programming background, am competent at reverse engineering software (thats the nice way of putting it) and have worked on and am currently involved in several fan-translation projects for games across several platforms. I've no qualms about collaborating with Zevran fans to ensure the two are as compatible as possible

blademaster7 wrote...

The part where she begs the PC to
break up with her is one of those dialogues that earned her the b*tch
label. In truth it is the other way around.

If you play that
scene you'll pretty much conclude that the PC and Morrigan are insulting
each other. The toolset however, suggest that at some point they're
supposed to have a passionate kiss that starts with anger and ends
smoothly...

The guy who wrote that was creative. The moron who
was supposed to program it, was not.

Exactly, it completely changes the tone of the scene, as you've commented it seems whoever was working on this certainly liked to cut corners, sadly to the detriment of the whole product. Our goal should be to get things as close to what the writers envisioned as possible.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 10 avril 2010 - 07:41 .

[UpiH]

Terra_Ex wrote...

BG2 likewise, Throne of Bhaal had the nerfed epilogues and final boss. I think the mod Ascension restored the ending and finale to what was originally intended. There was also an issue where NONE of Imoen's dialogues would trigger.

Interestingly, those were Mr. D. Gaider's mods. Maybe he should pay a visit to the scripting dept more often?

[blademaster7]

Terra_Ex wrote...
Exactly, it completely changes the tone of the scene, as you've commented it seems whoever was working on this certainly liked to cut corners, sadly to the detriment of the whole product. Our goal should be to get things as close to what the writers envisioned as possible.

And for that... I am grateful to be part of this community. No, not the Bioware community... the community of people who actually care about DAO.

And don't forget that the kiss at the gates is supposed to take place BEFORE her final line. I know it's difficult but that's the whole point with the sudden change in her voice.

[ejoslin]

Sometimes what I write and what I mean to write are totally separate things.

Edit: I am completely over my head when it comes to adding the kisses there, unfortunately.  They would add so much to the scene.  Every time I try to add kisses at the gates, I end up with this terrible mess.  Other places, I can usually add them.  There, I just get complete weirdness.  I asked Charsen for help since he's awesome at modding, and he instead took it over (I am so grateful).  I won't do my spammy link again, but gah, this scene deserved so much better than what was released.

I feel your pain, though.  Every single one of Zevran's "in love" responses were supposed to lead to a kiss.  Some of Alistair's were as well.

What made ME want to punt kittens was learning that Zevran was giving his "friendly" dialog to the one he loves.  At the gates, he called his lover, "My friend."  Grrrrrrr.

*grin* DAO did deserve better than this!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 avril 2010 - 08:29 .

[Master Shiori]

Just to let the modders know that I keep a number of saves before key points in Morrigan romance, so if needed I'd be more then happy to send them to you or upload them somewhere.



Though I might need a bit of help with that.

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...
The guy who wrote that was creative. The moron who was supposed to program it, was not.

David Gaider wrote Morrigan, I believe, along with Zevran and Alistair, and Nathaniel and Anders in DA:A.  I've learned to expect I'm going to like his characters a great deal.  That does seem to be the pattern.  So why do I get the feeling, as with RtO, that when other people get their hands on those characters they seem determined to muck them up?

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...
The guy who wrote that was creative. The moron who was supposed to program it, was not.

David Gaider wrote Morrigan, I believe, along with Zevran and Alistair, and Nathaniel and Anders in DA:A.  I've learned to expect I'm going to like his characters a great deal.  That does seem to be the pattern.  So why do I get the feeling, as with RtO, that when other people get their hands on those characters they seem determined to muck them up?

He said he also wrote Justice.

While on the subject of David Gaider and Morrigan, did David ever discuss her on these forums?

I know he posted some clarifications about Alistair, Loghain , Ostagar, Landsmeet and Grey Wardens in general, but I don't remember him ever discussing Morrigan's character.

Would be great if he shared some thoughts on her character and motivations.

[blademaster7]

Addai67 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...
The guy who wrote that was creative. The moron who was supposed to program it, was not.

David Gaider wrote Morrigan, I believe, along with Zevran and Alistair, and Nathaniel and Anders in DA:A.  I've learned to expect I'm going to like his characters a great deal.  That does seem to be the pattern.  So why do I get the feeling, as with RtO, that when other people get their hands on those characters they seem determined to muck them up?

Is he even aware these things are dysfunctional? I mean, the writers said so themselves that Morrigan is the face of the game because she symbolizes the conflict of the DAO world.

Well, the programmers let 90% of that conflict in the toolset and couldn't bother putting it in the game.

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...

Is he even aware these things are dysfunctional? I mean, the writers said so themselves that Morrigan is the face of the game because she symbolizes the conflict of the DAO world.

Well, the programmers let 90% of that conflict in the toolset and couldn't bother putting it in the game.

He would have to be aware, unless the devs don't play their own game?  If I was the writer, I'd find it pretty frustrating.  I suppose it's similar to when a story is adapted to the screen.  You have to see your creations bastardized.

The Bioware blog comic makes me think he did want to get out some of the "cutting room floor" stuff into the fan community.  Obviously there is some recognition that an awful lot of people assume Morrigan is unfeeling, evil b*tch, and there's some attempt to correct that impression.

[blademaster7]

Anyway.. enough ranting for now...



Has anyone actually managed to figure what's wrong with her sidequest? Where does Morrigan confront you after you finish it?

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...

GardenSnake wrote...

I'm getting side-tracked. The fact is that even with my romance with Leliana, I still really want to find out which way the story is going to go with Morrigan. What I'm kind of scared about is something that someone mentioned on another thread. They brought up a good point that Bioware might decide to go with a cannon ending (like you mentioned with BG). Would it automatically assumed that the ritual happened? My second warden had a romance with her but said no to the ritual (pretty tragic to watch IMO). The epilouge then said that the ritual never did end up happening. Would your ending in Awakening mean nothing? Hope not. I just hope that if they do end up doing a cannon ending, they make it satisfying for everyone and don't ****** too many people off. Or just go the Mass Effect route  that way everyone's a winner!
Speaking of BG, I've heard nothing but praise about how it's the best RPG ever (I'd give my vote to KOTOR but that's just me). Do you know anyway I could get either of them? Legal of illegal any suggestions would be helpful.

I know its different but when you look at how Awakening ends with the Warden vanishing and then look at how KOTOR2 ends with Revan and the Exile vanishing ( I know Bioware didn't make KOTOR2 but still...), then look at how The Old Republic is set 300 years after the events of KOTOR. So we'll likely never get a proper resolution to Revan's storyand then they've thrown in descendents of the KOTOR characters in TOR, like Satele Shan, who is supposed to be a descendant of Bastila from KOTOR.  So thats my concern with DA, that Bioware skips way ahead and we only get to play as the descendents of the Origins characters, if at all. That might be neat to do eventually, but not in the second game of the series.

As far as getting your hands on BG- personally I never played the original BG, I only played BG2 and Throne of Bhaal, but if you can get past the old graphics and lack of having every line voice acted (theres alot more reading), BG2 is some of the best story based gaming out there. The romances in particular are very well done and its great how they transfer right over to Throne of Bhaal. You might be able to find BG2 on amazon or I'm sure you could find it on certain websites...not that I'm condoning that sort of thing...

Vanishing can be interpretted a few different ways. Vanished can mean that Fereldan may never see him or her again but he/she goes off to kick some ass in Orlais or the Korkari Wilds. Plus, my ending doesn't mention the warden leaving, he and Leliana are actually seen in Denerim. So only time well tell or as Awakening puts it, "It's in the Maker's hands" The Maker being Bioware here....

Modifié par GardenSnake, 10 avril 2010 - 09:29 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Addai67 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

Is he even aware these things are dysfunctional? I mean, the writers said so themselves that Morrigan is the face of the game because she symbolizes the conflict of the DAO world.

Well, the programmers let 90% of that conflict in the toolset and couldn't bother putting it in the game.

He would have to be aware, unless the devs don't play their own game?  If I was the writer, I'd find it pretty frustrating.  I suppose it's similar to when a story is adapted to the screen.  You have to see your creations bastardized.

The Bioware blog comic makes me think he did want to get out some of the "cutting room floor" stuff into the fan community.  Obviously there is some recognition that an awful lot of people assume Morrigan is unfeeling, evil b*tch, and there's some attempt to correct that impression.

Not to mention, that if your Warden romanced her, there is a whole level of bitterness that others just will not get.  I don't believe that was ever intended by the writers.  As it was, it was nearly a game killer.  I think they were shooting for bittersweet and what we got was sinister and ugly.  I don't know if it was EA level editing, oversight, or intended.  I think they intended the Morrigan romance, as they let it play out, to be a demand builder.  Most of us just felt robbed and used and she merely came across heartless and uncaring, with few redeeming qualities.  I mean in the Dark Ritual she literally treats each Warden the same whether lover, friend or enemy. 

I hope you're right that they're trying to "correct" (what seems to me) a nearly fatal error in the story.  There's a lot of correcting that needs to be done.  I walked away from a gaming experience (my first RPG) feeling like I'd been kicked square in the crotch and (as a gamer) felt the need to flame on it for about three months because it just seemed so wrong from a game story perspective.  

I had never sat down and played a game for 80 hours..ever...and I think that's what irritated me about the whole botched romance with Morrigan.  I invested too much time for the ending I got and I will not do it again if this is Bioware's editting or storyline methodology.  Like I said, it just felt wrong.  It appears, since the evidence in the toolset has now come to light, that I (and many others, of course) may have been right.

Now I'm really angry, knowing that much of what would have made a great romance (in direct contradiction to the kick in the balls my Warden got) was actually embedded in the game.  That this material was edited out (or due to programmer error if one prefers) must have either been the editing error or oversight of the gaming century.  Add to a botched romance, the glitches that have crept in for the epilogues and...well...a great game just may get reduced to merely so-so game.  The game would have been fantastic (and plenty Dark for those who care about such things) without the romances as they were edited.  (I won't say written, since additional content was obviously planned and drafted).

Again, I really hope you're right in that they realize they may have committed an error in either the storyline or the editing and are earnestly attempting to correct it. 

Modifié par Barbarossa2010, 11 avril 2010 - 02:32 .

[Addai]

Wait, her DR scene is the same as with a non-lover??!! If that is the case, I'm going to be terribly disappointed. I feel this build-up as my PC is getting closer. Poor slob has no idea what is coming- I guess he must think that her fear has to do with her being an apostate, so mentally he's making all sorts of plans about how he is going to whisk her away and protect her. Not something he had ever pictured himself doing, mind you, being a Cousland who always does his duty and all that blather. But he really would throw it all away for her. So the fact that she leaves is going to be a huge kick in the gut. And if it's done harshly... ugh. I might put this character aside until there are fixes, if there ever are.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 avril 2010 - 04:35 .