16177 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

FWIW, I just breezed through Awakening over the past couple days with my PC who gave Morrigan the mirror for the 1st time in Origins in the post-epilogue save. Like I expected, you do get the proper Morrigan epilogue in Awakening when she is in "love" from your imported Origins save.

[RogueWriter3201]

Greetings to everyone in this thread. This might turn into a Wall 'O Text, so I apologize in advance. Okay, I tried to backtrack more than a few pages to get a general gist of the conversations concerning the missing Morrigan Content in DA:O and how to get the proper Morrigan Ending in DA:A. Sadly, you folks are *far* ahead of me in the Tech intellect department, and I wasn't really able to follow too much of what was being discused in regards to files leading into other files or one file triggering another, etc.

So, I was just hoping to get a lamen's term version of what you guys are talking about in regards to all the Content and the projects now in motion by the Fan Community Modders to restore that lost content just like what has been recently done with Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords. I recently installed the KOTOR2 restoration Mod, and the game that's on my PC now is almost *completely* defferent than what I was playing before. Given what you folks have said about what was lost from DA:O (and yes, I read that Comic by Aimo and Gaider too concerning the lost Morrigan doubt scene) I could well imagine that if this DA restoration project is successful Dragon Age, at least for the PC, will be a slightly different game as well; at least when it comes to certain Romances being set right.

This whole thing with Morrigan and getting the right endings always upset me, to the point where I just threw up my hands, Married Anora (since I like her as well) and let Loghain do the DR with Morrigan since she and I were not Romantically involved, just good friends. Anyway, long story short, it would be great to get some clarification on all this, thanks folks.

[Addai]

I got a strange dialogue option with Morrigan. She is at 100 Love, but there was an option to ask how to get on her good side. It sounds like a romance starter which would be most appropriate when she is neutral or hostile. What's that all about?

I'm so leery of everything now, knowing that it's so buggy and incomplete. Pfeh!

Modifié par Addai67, 11 avril 2010 - 05:46 .

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

Wait, her DR scene is the same as with a non-lover??!! If that is the case, I'm going to be terribly disappointed. I feel this build-up as my PC is getting closer. Poor slob has no idea what is coming- I guess he must think that her fear has to do with her being an apostate, so mentally he's making all sorts of plans about how he is going to whisk her away and protect her. Not something he had ever pictured himself doing, mind you, being a Cousland who always does his duty and all that blather. But he really would throw it all away for her. So the fact that she leaves is going to be a huge kick in the gut. And if it's done harshly... ugh. I might put this character aside until there are fixes, if there ever are.

The whole DR scene when you're romancing Morrigan is almost the same as if you were anyone else- the bulk of it is the same, but she'll acknowledge your romance and everything. My whole problem with that scene though is that if you're romancing her,  its just so jarring how mysterious and sinister her tone is throughout the whole thing. Up to that point you've begun to see cracks in her "I'm an uncaring, tough, survival of the fittest witch" facade and then once she starts in on the Ritual talk, its like you're talking to the Morrigan you just met way back in the Korcari wilds.

The DR scene is my biggest problem with Origins- its a great little wrinkle in the story, but especially if you're romancing Morrigan, its just horribly, horribly unsatisfying and for me, ultimately a  bit a of a head scratcher. I know Gaider and Bioware want to keep things a bit mysterious with Morrigan (as that is surely part of her appeal) but my poor Cousland just wanted to ask Morrigan "Why?" throughout the whole chat- Why can't he ever see his Old God Baby? Why can't he go along with Morrigan? Why must she leave right after the battle? Why can't he ever see her again? Why is this Ritual suddenly so important to Morrigan?

Thats an issue I have with both Origins and Awakening- both games give you a ambiguous moral decision to make at the end, but seriously limit the player's ability to ask reasonable questions and just throw a whole ton of info at the player at once. In Origins, you get dumped on with the revelation that a Warden must die and thenbam right after that you learn that apparently Morrigan knew all along and was secretly super dedicated to getting an Old God Baby for some mysterious reason thats never explained. In Awakening, you have to decide the fate of the Architect after he dumps a heap of exposition on the player.

In both cases you've got to make a seemingly big decision based on very limited info- thats a compelling scenario, sure, but it feels a bit artificial especially in Morrigan's case as (if you've romanced her) you would think she might trust the PC a bit more, but instead she comes across as cold and suddenly compelled by destiny and duty which we haven't seen from her before in the entire game. Its like in the DR scene all of a sudden she becomes this duty bound, mission oriented person who needs the Old God Baby for whatever purpose- its just a very abrupt shift in character that really wasn't foreshadowed much and seems odd, especially if the PC is romancing or firends with Morrigan.

So yeah, in light of the Aimo comic and some of the other things that were seemingly cut or just not implemented in the game for Morrigan's romance, its frustrating to have it end as it does, I'm pretty sure Gaider has mentioned in the past that the Morrigan romance was supposed to be bittersweet, but IMO, its a tad bit more bitter than sweet. Yet, all of my whining and moaning about it could very easily be alleviated if we get to pick it up again in a sequel or ex-pack. 

To me, the whole Morrigan romance ending scenario is a bit like the Empire Strikes Back- the ending of ESB left on a pretty big loose end with Han being shipped away to Jabba and just generally leaving the viewer wiuth alot of unresolved questions. But as the movie viewer walking out of ESB you could be assured that those plot threads would be dealt with in a sequel. And thats my issue with how the Morrigan romance ends- Morrigan ditches the PC with the PC's Old God Baby and raises all sorts of questions on her motives, yet the player has no clue on whether or not the romance with the Warden will ever be picked up again in a future game- and until we know what DA2 brings, that just sucks.

*rant over*

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

I got a strange dialogue option with Morrigan. She is at 100 Love, but there was an option to ask how to get on her good side. It sounds like a romance starter which would be most appropriate when she is neutral or hostile. What's that all about?

I'm so leery of everything now, knowing that it's so buggy and incomplete. Pfeh!

I've gotten that before too. Its kind of like how she always greets you as a friend when you're at Arl Eamon's estate even if you're romancing her.

*Sigh* Having just finished Awakening for the 2nd time, some of the bugs really stink because there is stuff in the game that should be triggered yet isn't and once you get waylaid with so many bigs it just makes you think about what stuff are you missing that you don't even realize you're missing? And this is aside from multitude of technical bugs that 1.03 introduced, but thats a whole other issue....

As much as I want to see the 2/1/2011 DA title really soon, I would gladly Bioware just release it "when its done" so they could iron out more bugs and leave us players with a complete experience.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 avril 2010 - 05:54 .

[blademaster7]

If I tell you that the person who wrote the scripting comments suggested a kiss before the Morrigan/PC DR scene it wouldn't surprise you, would it?

There is also a line that is somewhat hidden. I think it's "Morrigan, I don't want to lose you". She stutters a bit and asks you to do it for your sake as well as hers.

I said it's hidden because it only comes up if you suggest Alistair. Seeing how no one in his right mind will romance her and send her to another man, the line is basically non existent.
I might try to mod it, even though I'm terrible with these programming stuff.

Modifié par blademaster7, 11 avril 2010 - 07:22 .

[Addai]

blademaster7 wrote...

If I tell you that the person who wrote the scripting comments suggested a kiss before the Morrigan/PC DR scene it wouldn't surprise you, would it?

Slanderers of romance!  I feel like kicking them.

I'm seriously demotivated to finish my game now, knowing that the DR is going to be flat.  *sigh*

Bioware, we want kissyface, damnit!!!

Modifié par Addai67, 11 avril 2010 - 08:00 .

[blademaster7]

Kiss her in front of Alistair...



and then rotate your party so you can see the rest of the reactions...

[Master Shiori]

Addai67 wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

If I tell you that the person who wrote the scripting comments suggested a kiss before the Morrigan/PC DR scene it wouldn't surprise you, would it?

Slanderers of romance!  I feel like kicking them.

I'm seriously demotivated to finish my game now, knowing that the DR is going to be flat.  *sigh*

Bioware, we want kissyface, damnit!!!

While she does retain the whole "ice queen" persona during most of the DR speech, there are ceirtain lines your noble can use to draw out emotions from Morrigan.

Asking her if DR is the reason she was so friendly to you will cause her to admit her feeling are genuine.
You even get the options of asking if you'll ever see her or the baby again.

Finally, if you initially refuse her offer, she will suggest talking to Alistair. This should open the line "do you really think I'd send you to another man?" which leads to a rather emotional reply from Morrigan.


This stuff doesn't hold a candle to what was cut out, but it does give a measure of satisfaction.

[blademaster7]

Master Shiori wrote...
Finally, if you initially refuse her offer, she will suggest talking to Alistair. This should open the line "do you really think I'd send you to another man?" which leads to a rather emotional reply from Morrigan.

Indeed. She admits that she want's you to be the father of the child regardless of the alternatives.

BUT, the fact that she even mentions Alistair/Loghain if you refuse makes the whole thing so uncomfortable and unreasonable.

If she's in love with the PC that dialogue shouldn't even show up IMO. If she's that desperate she might as well say "if you love me, do it for me" in a last ditch effort to convince you.

As much as manipulative that would sound, if she showed a bit of emotion and stutter in her words a bit, I would have agreed right there and take her on the spot. Better than being asked to convince my best friend to sleep with my woman if you play a little hard to get(which is easy to do in such an emotionless conversation).

[Shade of Wolf]

Brockololly wrote...

FWIW, I just breezed through Awakening over the past couple days with my PC who gave Morrigan the mirror for the 1st time in Origins in the post-epilogue save. Like I expected, you do get the proper Morrigan epilogue in Awakening when she is in "love" from your imported Origins save.

Thank You so much!! Now I'm gonna waste another 60 hours of my life for a well deserved epilogue!!

[Master Shiori]

blademaster7 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...
Finally, if you initially refuse her offer, she will suggest talking to Alistair. This should open the line "do you really think I'd send you to another man?" which leads to a rather emotional reply from Morrigan.

Indeed. She admits that she want's you to be the father of the child regardless of the alternatives.

BUT, the fact that she even mentions Alistair/Loghain if you refuse makes the whole thing so uncomfortable and unreasonable.

If she's in love with the PC that dialogue shouldn't even show up IMO. If she's that desperate she might as well say "if you love me, do it for me" in a last ditch effort to convince you.

As much as manipulative that would sound, if she showed a bit of emotion and stutter in her words a bit, I would have agreed right there and take her on the spot. Better than being asked to convince my best friend to sleep with my woman if you play a little hard to get(which is easy to do in such an emotionless conversation).

I agree it would have been better had she tried harder to persuade you, rather then mention alternatives.

However, Morrigan is a proud woman and she might not want to bring herself to beg for anything.
In her mind, as long as the ritual gets done she will save your life, and if that means she has to spend the night with someone she doesn't care about then so be it.

She does however seem to plead with you when you ask about your relationship and says something like "Please, do not cloud the issue. If you feel anything for me accept that this needs to be done".

This, in my opinion, comes as close to persuading you as it can get.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 avril 2010 - 11:02 .

[Terra_Ex]

Quite enjoying working on this stuff, just a quick update on how things have been going.

I'm just about finished reworking Morrigan's dialogues so she will retain her love dialog options post game. I added some custom case checks to Morrigan's nss file as its the easiest way to get what I wanted instead of having a convoluted dialog tree. Have to say things are going pretty damn smoothly, aside from the toolset occasionally deciding to devour 6gb+ of ram.

The issue with Morrigan "appearing" to be at friendly status was a pet peeve of mine for a good few months - the source of much confusion for players already reeling from the Dark Ritual revelation, so I'm glad I've got that out of the way. To think I'd put off getting into Dragon Age modding and fixing this up as I was sure someone else would do it / BW would sort it out, but several months later and here we are.


Still looking for any saves people have in the locations I mentioned in my earlier post, these greatly expedite the testing process. Addai sent me one for before Morrigan's selfish bastard speech and one with Morrigan's character quest activated but the one before the Dark Ritual would be great.


What's restored so far (Stuff that I've finished and verified as working)
==============================================================
- The "Morrigan's Ring" epilogue slide will now show correctly for any appropriate circumstances. Tested with Warden in love, both instigating the "final conversation" in Denerim and not. Also tested with a character not romantically involved with Morrigan. All tests were succesful, the ring slide shows only when appropriate.
- Morrigan dialog tree no longer reverts to friendly in the post-game when the player questions her following the ritual. (No more "What comes, my friend")
- Related to the above, Morrigan's "friend" topics will no longer auto-trigger in the postgame after the player has succesfully romanced her and questioned her on the ritual.
- Morrigan's love dialog options show correctly in post game.
- Ability to kiss Morrigan in/out of camp in the post game restored.
- Dialog choice "Care to join me in my tent" dialogue restored to post-game as a courtesy and in keeping with the post-game chronological timeline (Morrigan will still refuse to sleep with the player but the option is there, as it should be)
- Kiss scene restored for all races in Morrigan's "selfish bastard" dialogue. (Addai's save was very useful for this one)

Still to do:
========
- Investigate dialogue that occurs when you take Morrigan to Flemeth's hut - can it be tied in with the next point.
- Investigate the newly discovered follow up dialogue to Flemeth's hut. Restore/integrate if possible. (might be worth contacting D.Gaider and see what was originally intended for this plot branch)
- Investigate any remaining issues with Dark Ritual dialogue.
- Any clashes with Leliana love triangle that need addressing?
- blademaster says there's scripting comments regarding a kiss in the Dark Ritual scene?
- Investigate condition for the "How can i get on your good side" dialog choice
- Probably lots of other little bits...
- Morrigan epilogue flag in Awakening (probably something that should be fixed in the Awakening module rather than forcibly setting a flag in Origins)


If you guys know of any confirmed issues / anything hinted at in the scripting comments / VO notes section of the toolset, can you let me know, I'm scanning through the last few pages but there's a lot of stuff here - best to put it in bold or something instead of burying within a wall of text. That way I'll be sure not to miss it.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 11 avril 2010 - 03:35 .

[Master Shiori]

Thank you for the update Terra_Ex.



Please keep us posted on your progress and I hope you manage to pull this off as planned.

[ejoslin]

Edit: Sent as PM instead.  Nothing to see here!

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[Count Viceroy]

Very nice, I wasn't expecting so much work done so soon. Hope it keeps up, my playthrough is kinda on hold until you've finished. ^^

Though it does sound like you've reworked the most obvious stuff. Any chance you could release your fixes as beta and update it as you go along? 

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 11 avril 2010 - 04:19 .

[Shade of Wolf]

Terra_Ex wrote...

Quite enjoying working on this stuff, just a quick update on how things have been going.

I'm just about finished reworking Morrigan's dialogues so she will retain her love dialog options post game. I added some custom case checks to Morrigan's nss file as its the easiest way to get what I wanted instead of having a convoluted dialog tree. Have to say things are going pretty damn smoothly, aside from the toolset occasionally deciding to devour 6gb+ of ram.

The issue with Morrigan "appearing" to be at friendly status was a pet peeve of mine for a good few months - the source of much confusion for players already reeling from the Dark Ritual revelation, so I'm glad I've got that out of the way. To think I'd put off getting into Dragon Age modding and fixing this up as I was sure someone else would do it / BW would sort it out, but several months later and here we are.


Still looking for any saves people have in the locations I mentioned in my earlier post, these greatly expedite the testing process. Addai sent me one for before Morrigan's selfish bastard speech and one with Morrigan's character quest activated but the one before the Dark Ritual would be great.


What's restored so far (Stuff that I've finished and verified as working)
==============================================================
- The "Morrigan's Ring" epilogue slide will now show correctly for any appropriate circumstances. Tested with Warden in love, both instigating the "final conversation" in Denerim and not. Also tested with a character not romantically involved with Morrigan. All tests were succesful, the ring slide shows only when appropriate.
- Morrigan dialog tree no longer reverts to friendly in the post-game when the player questions her following the ritual. (No more "What comes, my friend")
- Related to the above, Morrigan's "friend" topics will no longer auto-trigger in the postgame after the player has succesfully romanced her and questioned her on the ritual.
- Morrigan's love dialog options show correctly in post game.
- Ability to kiss Morrigan in/out of camp in the post game restored.
- Dialog choice "Care to join me in my tent" dialogue restored to post-game as a courtesy and in keeping with the post-game chronological timeline (Morrigan will still refuse to sleep with the player but the option is there, as it should be)
- Kiss scene restored for all races in Morrigan's "selfish bastard" dialogue. (Addai's save was very useful for this one)

Still to do:
========
- Investigate dialogue that occurs when you take Morrigan to Flemeth's hut - can it be tied in with the next point.
- Investigate the newly discovered follow up dialogue to Flemeth's hut. Restore/integrate if possible. (might be worth contacting D.Gaider and see what was originally intended for this plot branch)
- Investigate any remaining issues with Dark Ritual dialogue.
- Any clashes with Leliana love triangle that need addressing?
- blademaster says there's scripting comments regarding a kiss in the Dark Ritual scene?
- Investigate condition for the "How can i get on your good side" dialog choice
- Probably lots of other little bits...
- Morrigan epilogue flag in Awakening (probably something that should be fixed in the Awakening module rather than forcibly setting a flag in Origins)


If you guys know of any confirmed issues / anything hinted at in the scripting comments / VO notes section of the toolset, can you let me know, I'm scanning through the last few pages but there's a lot of stuff here - best to put it in bold or something instead of burying within a wall of text. That way I'll be sure not to miss it.

Wow, I'm quite impressed. I wish I had DAO on computer more than ever!!!

[Brockololly]

Bravo to all of the modders out there!

[blademaster7]

Brilliant... Terra_Ex you are amazing...

I don't know how to mod, but I'll keep investigating and keep you informed.

Terra_Ex wrote...

- Kiss scene restored for all races in Morrigan's "selfish bastard" dialogue. (Addai's save was very useful for this one)

I would love to see that. Keep in mind that there are more than one responses that lead to the kiss. The "you are insane" which makes her respond with "If I am 'tis because you make me so" also wields the same result.

It's there in the toolset. You can't miss it.

Terra_Ex wrote...
Still to do:
========
- Investigate dialogue that occurs when you take Morrigan to Flemeth's hut - can it be tied in with the next point.

ejoslin already fixed this. It's in the Zevran mod. may wanna take a look at that.

Terra_Ex wrote...
- Investigate any remaining issues with Dark Ritual dialogue.

Hmmm.. you can tell her "Morrigan, I don't want to lose you" and it will get you an emotional response.

This is only available if you agree to send her to Alistair/Loghain. Just the notion of Morrigan bringing it up is ridiculous and the fact that the PC agreed.. even more so.

Can you please... please put this line in her discussion with the PC and leave Alistair/Loghain out of this?

Not necessary... but  everyone miisses it because no one in his right mind will send her to another man.

Terra_Ex wrote...
- Any clashes with Leliana love triangle that need addressing?

If you break up with Morrigan during her "jealous" speach you can re-trigger the romance with the mirror exploit. You can get both of them to love and finish the game. The game usually forbits you from having 2 companions in love with you.

People who are greedy will just go ahead and do it, but I'm telling you how it's supposed to be.

Terra_Ex wrote...
- blademaster says there's scripting comments regarding a kiss in the Dark Ritual scene?

No actual content here.
It's just an idea by the writer. Apparently they didn't go through with it because of limitations. If you want to try adding a kiss then all the better. Who am I to stop you?

Terra_Ex wrote...
- Probably lots of other little bits...

Alistair gives you the wrong dialogue at the gates. He seems to know about the ritual even if you never tell him. This creates a contradiction because at the coronation he doesn't have a clue.

This only requires a simple flag tweak. The dialogue is there.. you just get the wrong one.

Keep up the good work.

Modifié par blademaster7, 11 avril 2010 - 06:39 .

[ejoslin]

blademaster, I hope I addressed the stuff at the gates. It's hard for me to test as I don't have a male character there, but I made a lot of changes to Alistair there. The party_events file was a huge mess. Does he still give the wrong dialog at the gates with my mod installed?

Edit: He should not.  If he does, I'll have to go over the scripts a bit more.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 avril 2010 - 07:15 .

[blademaster7]

Hmmm... I was messing with the toolset yesterday and it was pretty f'd up.



I'll use your mod right now and check...

[ejoslin]

party_events was a nightmare. I know I have Alistair pretty straightened out post-landsmeet, but I'm not sure about the gates. His hostile responses are fixed, as are his still in love and in love responses. And I got a lot of his gates dialog cleaned up as well, but really, going over the scripts, my eyes were glazing over. I was really proud of myself getting Zevran cleaned up. THAT was rough.

[blademaster7]

I'm using the files you put on rapidshare for me. Is there an update I'm not aware of. Because Alistair still has his psychic abilities.

EDIT: In my game he is king. So it works... I'm just refering about the DR thingy... he seems to know about it, even though I never told him.

Modifié par blademaster7, 11 avril 2010 - 07:38 .

[ejoslin]

blademaster7 wrote...

I'm using the files you put on rapidshare for me. Is there an update I'm not aware of. Because Alistair still has psychic his abilities.

Hmmmm, I don't remember what all I put up on rapidshare, but I don't think it was the full mod.  My full mod is here, but don't overwrite the party_events files when installing it as the ones you have are newer.  I think if I put anything up, it was just the party_events plus the zevran_defined scripts.

Edit: Alistair has separate changes.  I'll have to look and see what I uploaded!


second edit: hah, what an unfortunate typo I had in there, but no, I didn't include changes to Alistair's scripts.  I'll double check them anyway, but if they're not firing properly, it's because of the scripts, so hopefully it's a cleaner fix.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 avril 2010 - 07:44 .

[ejoslin]

Ok, *groan* I think I have it fixed now. I'll upload a new party_events for you. I appreciate you testing this for me!

Alistair should no longer be psychic.  Just have these party_event.dlb/dlg overwrite the ones you currently have.

Modifié par ejoslin, 11 avril 2010 - 07:54 .