16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Aphetto_LC]

ahuevocabron wrote...

I for one support a DLC related to Morrigan and the Warden. This way, there is closure to that particular storyline which many of us seem to want.

This is about all that I have hopes for.  DA2 is a rotten fruit to me.  Unless the trailer shows PC game play and absolutely blows me away, I will not be getting it.  Bioware can even throw in the token "Morrigan tease" and it will not sway my opinion.  Give me a Morrigan DLC that gives closure to the DR and I will pack my bags and move on to a different RPG series.

[GardenSnake]

MoSa09 wrote...

Nighwolfa wrote...

If they say the story isn't over then i assume they mean the current story between the warden and morrigan, wouldnt make sense to put her in another game altogether.

they said its not about characters but just and only about "interesting stories about Thedas", so i wouldn't count on that

Too true

[Aphetto_LC]

GardenSnake wrote...

MoSa09 wrote...

Nighwolfa wrote...

If they say the story isn't over then i assume they mean the current story between the warden and morrigan, wouldnt make sense to put her in another game altogether.

they said its not about characters but just and only about "interesting stories about Thedas", so i wouldn't count on that

Too true

I think it is more an excuse so that Bioware can jump from place to place and not run into potential plot holes.  Of course, considering the retcon issues, I think they have screwed up already.

Edit -  This is probably the main reason I do not think/ want Morrigan in DA2, because Bioware will probably screw it up.

Modifié par Aphetto_LC, 14 août 2010 - 09:34 .

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...
You expect to see Morrigan within the trailer? Apart from that i highly doubt it, i never would want that. Get a glimpse of her in a 2 minutes trailer? Whats the use of that? I put my hopes in those rumors to get a nice dlc and Ximena to provide some nice closure to the Wardens story. Imagine she really appears, i will just be some teasing shots that will leave more open questions than answers. And sorry, we already have more than enough of that. I don't feel any need to add more "Whats about Morrigan questions" than we already have

Well, no, I don't expect to see or hear Morrigan in the trailer. I've been hoping for a glimpse of Morrigan since I finished Origins only to be disappointed with every single announcment and most of the actual post release content. So I'm not getting my hopes up anymore, but eventually, I'd imagine we will see Morrigan again.Whether thats in DA2 or not, I have no clue.

I'm just thinking BioWare is going to try and milk the mystery in Morrigan's story for as long as they can, hoping us fanboys will just gobble up any and all DA content in the interim. If they think they can string people along to maintain interest though, they're sorely mistaken- I'm ready to ditch DA if they start getting into too many cliffhangers like Morrigan.

I peruse the internet's various DA related forums and was reading up on Penny Arcade's DA2 thread and the user "vsove" is a BioWare employee doing some of the cinematic design work on DA2 ( I think itsJohn Epler, who posted on the DA2 forums for a while...). Anyway, he posted this bit a couple days back in response to someone expressing disappointment in not playing as the Warden again:

vsove wrote...

EightBlade wrote:

I get what point you guys are making, my dude was a big deal in Fereldon and all that. And I know since Hawk's live covers a decade or so it  makes sense I'd see no changes.

But I still feel pretty damn ripped off, I thought this would be like ME where I grow a character through a saga. And to hear that my Hero of Fereldon won't be doing anything again, because Dragon Age is "Hawke's  story" kinda pisses me off.

I can definitely understand why you might be disappointed. You got attached to your Warden, and you want to take them on further  adventures. This is an understandable sentiment to have - and not an  altogether uncommon one!

The thing is, we've said that Dragon Age wasn't going to be a trilogy in the same manner as Mass Effect. The 'character' of the Dragon Age  games, if you can call it that, is Thedas - the games focus on your  interactions with this world from a variety of perspectives.

And I mean, your Grey Warden served their purpose. They defeated the Blight in Ferelden. Moreover, since there's a strong possibility that your Warden is dead, it doesn't really make sense for us to make a sequel starring them.

Unless we retcon 'oh, your Grey Warden magically survived through magical means, using magic.

That rationale upsets me. Not to go after Epler, but the notion that its a foregone conclusion that since some people's Warden did the Ultimate Sacrifice its not an option to base a sequel around the Warden is stupid. Thats exactly what BioWare is doing for all the people that had Shep die in ME2. Don't like it? Make another Warden that survives! Hell, you can even turn down the DR and still have your Warden live!

My point (and how this ties in with Morrigan) is this: If BioWare games are all about choices, and the consequences of those choices, then what better opportunity to show those consequences by continuing the DR/US story with the Warden!?! You want a meaningful choice? If you turn down the DR and do the US, your Warden is dead, for good! Of course BioWare totally neglected that with hand waving in Awakening, so the US people had their cake and ate it too.

It just gets back to how BioWare handles the DR in the future. Choosing to do the DR is a 2 way street. Its not just about creating the OGB, its also just as much about allowing the Wardens not to have to die killing the Archdemon. But by effectively relegating the DR Warden to mop up duty on random Golem or darkspawn quests in expacks and DLC and not letting them do anything meaningful, whats the point? By not continuing the Warden as PC to deal with the consequences of the DR (both their survival AND the OGB), BioWare is essentially creating a canon, whether they like it or not.

If you're going to offer up a choice you need to let players experience the consequences- so if you have your Warden do the US, you know what? You're going to miss out on playing as your Warden in the future! Imagine that? Actual consequences! Just like if you kill Zevran, you miss out on content! And if you had your Warden do the DR, they'll survive to face whatever it is will happen as a result of surviving killing the AD and creating an OGB with Morrigan! Wow! Consequences with meaning! Not just a powerpoint slide that ends with no resolution!

*sigh* I'll wait a bit longer and see where BioWare is taking the Warden and Morrigan's story, if anywhere at all. I've just been disappointed with everything post release thus far and its likely too much to expect that any Morrigan DLC or a Morrigan focused expack would suddenly be an increase in quality from Awakening or Darkspawn Chronicles.

I've been brushing up my drawing skills so I may take a stab at making a Warden/Morrigan comic of my own in the future. Not for a while though, I'd need a decent tablet as I'd hate to have to scan everything in. Not to go totally off topic, but for any artists, what kind of beginner's tablet would Morrigan recommend? I've been thinking of the Wacom Pen and Touch.... that plus CS5 could be a nice start....

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 août 2010 - 09:41 .

[Aphetto_LC]

Regarding the "Warden possibly died so that is why we have Hawke" comment. Why couldn't those that have their Warden alive play as the Warden and those that killed their Warden, play as Hawke.



Warden could be a silent PC still and Hawke could be fully voiced.



I really do not want Hawke to stumble across Morrigan and one cheesy line later, she tells him everything that the Warden was not given the chance to find out regarding the DR and OGB.

[Brockololly]

Aphetto_LC wrote...

I think it is more an excuse so that Bioware can jump from place to place and not run into potential plot holes.  Of course, considering the retcon issues, I think they have screwed up already.

Edit -  This is probably the main reason I do not think/ want Morrigan in DA2, because Bioware will probably screw it up.

Thats what I don't get- If DA is all about your choices and how they impact Thedas, they already bungled badly with Awakening. You shouldn't have been able to import your dead warden- you should have just been able to import the dead warden's choices into the world of the Orlesian.

But I do fear that whenever Morrigan shows up again, it will be as some cookie cutter, one size fits all Morrigan. You want to break my immersion? Just have Morrigan show up again and act like nothing at all happened with the Warden...ugh....<_<

Edit:

Aphetto_LC wrote...

Regarding the "Warden possibly died so that is why we have Hawke" comment. Why couldn't those that have their Warden alive play as the Warden and those that killed their Warden,  play as Hawke.

Warden could be a silent PC still and Hawke could be fully voiced.

I really do not want Hawke to stumble across Morrigan and one cheesy line later, she tells him everything that the Warden was not given the  chance to find out regarding the DR and OGB.

I'm guessing it has to do with resources and money. Gaider has said it many times before, that its important when making a game that you make a game that everyone can play with a limited amount of path exclusive content. Meaning, its not cost effective to have one "game" with the Warden and another for "Hawke." I understand that, but still, I don't think thats doing justice to those whose Warden is perfectly alive and kicking.

But as for Hawke and Morrigan- I agree. It needs to be the Warden that meets up with Morrigan and gets answers. Otherwise it just comes off as incredibly cheap, IMO. It would be like instead of Vader telling Luke that he is his father, Vader tells some random Jawa that he is Luke's father- not quite as emotionally engaging.

Modifié par Brockololly, 14 août 2010 - 09:49 .

[MoSa09]

I said this before, the DR appeared to be a meaning decision. Back in November, and based on some dev post, i had the serious impression they had special plans with her and included this cause she was special and many interesting stuff would follow. In the following months, i got that feeling the DR was just included to have nice and unexpected catch at the very end, and that was the whole purpose of the DR. Thats maybe why i don't really care any more if they close her story in a small dlc. If they had no further plans for her, they can close it in a small dlc.

Just remember the very reason this thread was started. If that bug would have been of any importance for future content of games, it would have been adressed by now. The fact it isn't should tell you more than enough about what we Morrigan fan can expect coming our way in the future.

edit: Rant has been moved to avoid a lock-down

Modifié par MoSa09, 14 août 2010 - 10:19 .

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Thats what I don't get- If DA is all about your choices and how they impact Thedas, they already bungled badly with Awakening. You shouldn't have been able to import your dead warden- you should have just been able to import the dead warden's choices into the world of the Orlesian.

They obviously couldn't pull off the whole "import choices but not the character" thing. Not really a big deal. Those who wanted to keep plying with their Wardens could simply import them and those who did US could create an Orleasian Warden.

I never understood what all the fuss was about when it came to importing characters and choices together.

Brockololly wrote...
But I do fear that whenever Morrigan shows up again, it will be as some cookie cutter, one size fits all Morrigan. You want to break my immersion? Just have Morrigan show up again and act like nothing at all happened with the Warden...ugh....<_<

Since our flags and choices from DA:O are going to be imported, I believe they will have an impact on what certain npcs like Flemeth say and how they feel about the events and characters of DA:O.
I'm not sure if we'll see Morrgan herself in DA2. Most likely we'll hear other characters talk about her and her relationship with the Warden.

Depending on how the writers handle the dialogue, the difference between romaced and unromancd Morri could be a few extra dialogue lines.

Pretty simple.

Brockololly wrote...
I'm guessing it has to do with resources and money. Gaider has said it many times before, that its important when making a game that you make a game that everyone can play with a limited amount of path exclusive content. Meaning, its not cost effective to have one "game" with the Warden and another for "Hawke." I understand that, but still, I don't think thats doing justice to those whose Warden is perfectly alive and kicking.

But as for Hawke and Morrigan- I agree. It needs to be the Warden that meets up with Morrigan and gets answers. Otherwise it just comes off as incredibly cheap, IMO. It would be like instead of Vader telling Luke that he is his father, Vader tells some random Jawa that he is Luke's father- not quite as emotionally engaging.

Mass Effect 2 was a prime example of how you could make a game that works well for both those who imported their Shepards from ME1 and those that never played ME1 before.

But having Bioware (or any other developer) create 2 versions of the same game is never going to happen, even if they had the resources for it. It's simply not good business sense to do so.

They're better off using  those resouces for making DLC and/or expansion.


I'm currently waiting to see if the rumours of that Morrigan DLC are true and to discover what the story behind it is. Hopefully, it'll be something that advances the story between Morrigan and the Warden.

[Master Shiori]

MoSa09 wrote...

I said this before, the DR appeared to be a meaning decision. Back in November, and based on some dev post, i had the serious impression they had special plans with her and included this cause she was special and many interesting stuff would follow. In the following months, i got that feeling the DR was just included to have nice and unexpected catch at the very end, and that was the whole purpose of the DR. Thats maybe why i don't really care any more if they close her story in a small dlc. If they had no further plans for her, they can close it in a small dlc.

Just remember the very reason this thread was started. If that bug would have been of any importance for future content of games, it would have been adressed by now. The fact it isn't should tell you more than enough about what we Morrigan fan can expect coming our way in the future.

edit: Rant has been moved to avoid a lock-down

David Gaider said DR was the single most important decision in Origins. They've also repeatedly said that Morrigan's story isn't over and (according to Mike Landlaw) that Morri fans will be pleased with the way her story plays out.

The only thing still in question is the reunion between Morrigan and the Warden. Gaider hinted that the Warden might find her, but so far it's still speculation until somebody confirms it.

Now, maybe this is the end cinematic in Starcraft 2 giving me a huge dose of optimism, but considering the amount of tragedy in Morrigan's life I strongly believe things will works out for her in the end. Unless DG created her for the sole reason of burying her under a pile of tragic events.

Hopefully, there'll be a light at the end of the tunnel for all of us who romanced Morri. It just remains to be seen if it's salvation or an incomingt train...

[MKDAWUSS]

Master Shiori wrote...

David Gaider said DR was the single most important decision in Origins. They've also repeatedly said that Morrigan's story isn't over and (according to Mike Landlaw) that Morri fans will be pleased with the way her story plays out.

I'll believe this when I see it. Blame the current track record. I'm not ruling out a spectacular and memorable conclusion, or something that's on the storytelling level of Origins, but at the same time, I'm not holding my breath over it. TBH I see this as a crapshoot right now.

The only thing still in question is the reunion between Morrigan and the Warden. Gaider hinted that the Warden might find her, but so far it's still speculation until somebody confirms it.

Well, with all these interruptions he's been getting, like running the arling of Amaranthine and helping a dwarf find his brother, his expedition, and a thaig, I still wonder where finding Morrigan is on his "to do" list

Now, maybe this is the end cinematic in Starcraft 2 giving me a huge dose of optimism, but considering the amount of tragedy in Morrigan's life I strongly believe things will works out for her in the end. Unless DG created her for the sole reason of burying her under a pile of tragic events.

I hope things work out for both of them. One thing to remember is that Morrigan and the Warden are 2 different people. If on one hand they're saying that Morrigan's story isn't done yet, and at the same time they're saying that the Warden's is... Well, you can see why I'm still nervous and possibly pessimistic about the whole thing.

Hopefully, there'll be a light at the end of the tunnel for all of us who romanced Morri. It just remains to be seen if it's salvation or an incomingt train...

Yep, that it does.

[phaonica]

vsove wrote...


And I mean, your Grey Warden served their purpose. They defeated the Blight in Ferelden. Moreover, since there's a strong possibility that your Warden is dead, it doesn't really make sense for us to make a sequel starring them.

I understand this to an extent. I can see how they wouldn't want to make a large game in which the story hinged on the Warden surviving Origins. Even though you could play your Warden in Awakening, the story didn't depend on their survival. I think that if they made an Origins expansion focused on Morrigan, they'd probably be inclined to make sure that the story would still play out even if the DR hadn't occured, even if the Warden had done the US. The Morrigan+Warden closure could play out there, but it couldn't be the main focus of the expansion. It would have to be part of a larger tale that would play out regardless.

Modifié par phaonica, 15 août 2010 - 12:12 .

[Hyper Cutter]

"Unless we retcon 'oh, your Grey Warden magically survived through magical means, using magic."

Isn't that what Awakening did, except they never bothered to even explain the retcon?

[GardenSnake]

Brockololly wrote...
It would be like instead of Vader telling Luke that he is his father, Vader tells some random Jawa that he is Luke's father- not quite as emotionally engaging.

I'd totally pay to watch that, just saying

They're bound to do something with her story, she's on the cover of the damn game, they've tried to tell us multiple times that her story isn't over etc. It'll happen, but as to whether the WArden is involved or not..... well that'll either be a pleasent surprise or a shot to the nuts. And if Gaider is writing this Morrigan content that shot to the nuts I just mentioned could come from a foot or even an AK-47 (depending on how bad the twist is. "Yep, I'm actually a darkspawn and you're in the Matrix. Wake up Warden. Wake up.")

[Homebound]

Surprisingly, one of the most rewarding moments for me in the game.

[ximena]

Brockololly wrote...



I've been brushing up my drawing skills so I may take a stab at making a Warden/Morrigan comic of my own in the future. Not for a while though, I'd need a decent tablet as I'd hate to have to scan everything in. Not to go totally off topic, but for any artists, what kind of beginner's tablet would Morrigan recommend? I've been thinking of the Wacom Pen and Touch.... that plus CS5 could be a nice start....

I think Morrigan would recommend it. I also think it's the equivalent of what I'm using which is the bamboo fun. XD For software, she wants me to tell you I'm using a software called Paint Tool SAI. XD

And Brock, I'm so totally working on that "The Aeonar" for Morrigan scenario you threw at me. XD 

[Brockololly]

ximena wrote...

Brockololly wrote...



I've been brushing up my drawing skills so I may take a stab at making a Warden/Morrigan comic of my own in the future. Not for a while though, I'd need a decent tablet as I'd hate to have to scan everything in. Not to go totally off topic, but for any artists, what kind of beginner's tablet would Morrigan recommend? I've been thinking of the Wacom Pen and Touch.... that plus CS5 could be a nice start....

I think Morrigan would recommend it. I also think it's the equivalent of what I'm using which is the bamboo fun. XD For software, she wants me to tell you I'm using a software called Paint Tool SAI. XD

And Brock, I'm so totally working on that "The Aeonar" for Morrigan scenario you threw at me. XD 

Well, tell Morrigan thanks for the art advice!

And hooooray for an Aeonar Morrigan family jail break!

[bl00dsh0t]

Apathy is afoot in here ;D Jupp that post by the cutscene dude is pretty much one of the things that we were worried about back in the end of 2009, nagging at the back of our minds as we encouraged eachother into hoping that the warden returns. I always had a feeling the US ending would come to bone us all. Sure it was one of the most satisfying endings but it brought us to the point where it just plain didn't make sense to have the warden return without forcing a canon of the dr having been followed through with.

The odds are that they weighted their options of either having the sacrifice a fellow warden or the dr as the basis for a new game and figured it would just cause continuity issues. How many actually did or did not do the ritual is sadly just a number we can speculate on even if the forum does seem to be suggesting that it was the majority. Still that majority was not enough for them to declare the dr canon or to just pull a retcon ressurection of the warden. Somehow that is positive from a rp perspective but frankly for the rest of us acutally wanting a continuation it is sh*tting in our shoes to make us buy some new ones. Sure I wouldn't want a canon myself for very many reasons, primarirly because if you make one decision canon the rest will soon follow, but in the end the only thing we can blaim bioware for at this point is being overambitious with the number of permutations of the story they created and then noticing that they cannot pull off continuity.

Or they planned it like this from the very beginning assuming that the gamers would love the world more than the characters. It just seems like a "genious" plan to recreate a LotR/starwars-esque world where people just enjoy everything thats coming out of it. Instead they wound up creating memorable characters that will wind up not popping up in the future or getting butchered in cameos because they could be killed off in origins or decisions that made them see the warden in an unfavourable light. The whole origins experience just wound up harming continuity, too damn many choices possible that they just cannot ignore. Only 2 companions couldn't be killed, or well one only through very very much trying to get him into a fight with you, which leaves only morrigan of a cast of universally memorable characters that should have a worthy continuation to their stories.... but no, we get placed in a situation where all the permutations of the choices winds up being too massive to be able to handle in a way that would be satisfying to the players. Thus they drop it like a hot potato since they are unwilling to accept the challange. 

Im sure the writers would have been capable of spinning the tale further in all its permutations but the fact remains that there is not a chance in hell that the development team can create all the quests, animations and maps to support all the stories that could be told in one game.

Ahh well screw ze world, ximena's comics are ze only truth!!! And aeonar as part of the plot sounds very nice, I approves

Modifié par bl00dsh0t, 15 août 2010 - 08:12 .

[ximena]

Ehhhh. No matter what happens, my warden's story isn't over. XD And yes, Morrigan in The Aeonar. Action-filled Morrigan comic abound! Though it's still in the planning process. And that could go on for weeks. XD

[bl00dsh0t]

Excellent, the Eldric canon lives on foreva!!!! I can wait a few weeks, as much as that pains me, then Ill start chainspamming your da page

[blademaster7]

The excuses they are using for not bringing back the Warden are all BS. He could be dead? lol...

So it's either dead or vanished for no reason... What a perfect way to finish a story. <_<

They were using the "we can go anywhere and do anything" mentality from day 1 and this is what led the straight into a corner. They were free to toss cliffhangers left and right, make everyone killable and give the player a lot of choices.... choices that eventually have no outcomes or consequences(I intend to find Morrigan! BOOYA!). The new protagonist is basically the "get out of jail free" card.

No need for closure(hey, giving questions is easier than giving answers), no need to track down the voice actors to bring back old companions and no need to satisfy your fans, because if you do, they might leave and not check up your DLC's and expansions...

Scrap everything and start from scratch. Instead of continuing an unfinished story and give answers, you can start a totaly new story and give more questions.

/rant

Modifié par blademaster7, 15 août 2010 - 08:19 .

[Nighwolfa]

Ultimately it will give the customers less faith in the game, and they won't beleive what the developers tell them, they will think its all a pack of lies. I dont see how u can leave a game un-finished and un-ended then move onto a completely new version of it with new chars, thats insane, finish one game at a time ffs. They are trying to push ahead too much and take what ever money they can from the franchise but have failed to conclude origins! i personally will not buy DA2 and move onto that story untill the 1st story is completed/concluded. but thats my personal views, you guys may feel u want dragon age 2. It just feels wrong moving onto the next game when this one is incompleted!.

[Nighwolfa]

And I stand by that notion Bioware! u wont see a penny outta me till u finish origins!