16183 réponses à ce sujet

[bl00dsh0t]

Hmm the bro-ification of morrigan could have negative consequences of course, but I think the hot rodding they are doing is more aimed at the art style and combat, not necessarily the companions. I have my doubts honestly that gaider would allow morrigan to be turned into the stereotypical evil and hot chick. Of course it is not impossible but I would doubt that it is the case at hand.

Blast I start of this wannabe calming rant and shiori beats me to it, damn yoooouuuu!!!!

I think one thing we can safely assume is that they are not turning dao into god of war where women are merely objects of lust for 13 year olds. By all means it would not surprise me if they screw up the combat system by trying to create a god of war clone but the story aspects probably won't be messed with too much. All this talk of mike hawke is making us assume even more retardation from bioware's side, I don't think that the writers would allow that level of f*ckup ;D

Modifié par bl00dsh0t, 15 août 2010 - 06:14 .

[Giggles_Manically]

I doubt the companions will get the depth DA1 had.



In ME2 any of the LI NPCs, if you didnt romance them it was calibration land for you.



Although I disagree with most of Morrigan's views I would hate to see such a strong charachter get simplified into "TEH HOT EVIL CHICK".

[Master Shiori]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I doubt the companions will get the depth DA1 had.

In ME2 any of the LI NPCs, if you didnt romance them it was calibration land for you.

Although I disagree with most of Morrigan's views I would hate to see such a strong charachter get simplified into "TEH HOT EVIL CHICK".

ME had different writers though and DA writers pound them into dirt when it comes to crafting characters and stories.

Right now, story and companions are the only part of DA2 that I have faith in. Everything else needs to be shown before I can draw a conclusion.

[Giggles_Manically]

I would have more faith in DA2, if EA wasent standing behind Bioware with a bro bat.



I like the DA writing team, (Loghain, Leliana, Morrigan, etc stand tall above ME to me) but they have to write a story that has a "broad appeal" meaning that bros and xbox livers have to get it to.



I will wait till I get my hands on it though, may even be a suprise.

[Brockololly]

Fair enough- It is true that every Gaider BioWare game with the exception of NWN, I've very much enjoyed from a story and dialogue perspective (BG2, ToB, KOTOR). I'm not so worried about the writers messing things up but more those who are giving the directives to the writers....Sure there is collaboration, but if the big wigs want Morrigan to be EVIL!!!! there isn't much the writers can do, I don't think.



But I 'd hope BioWare wouldn't do that....then again, I could see them doing something to Morrigan such that she may seem more "evil" at least maybe superficially but of course have her motivations be more ambiguous.

And I still worry about the "hot rod samurai" art effect on Morrigan and the old companions. Basically, I'm hoping to have a better bearing on my feelings towards DA2 by the end of this week and Gamescom hopefully.

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

Gaider himself has clearly said that he won't tolerate anyone messing around with his creations and that includes Morrigan. As long as he's the one writing her story things should be alright.

She might have invented by him, but she is owned by BioWare, If they decide the want her to be different than before, he has the choice to follow along or take his leave and some other wirter will finish the job like the ones making the calls want her to be

He might be the one who invented Morrigan, but she is owned by BioWare. And besides, he did not even completely invent her. In fact, Morrigan is the name of an ancient goddess of irish mythology. That irish godees has the ability to shapeshift into different form and stalk the lands of the living as an animal. In her human form, she equally appears as a beautiful young woman as well as an ugly old hag (coincidence here?).

This Morrigan also most probably inspired Morgan la Fey, which in turn also inspired the creation of Morrigan as a video game character.

Modifié par MoSa09, 15 août 2010 - 06:47 .

[bl00dsh0t]

 I think dao's story had a broad enough appeal, last time I checked LotR did too:wizard:

It's not like they will completely sh*t on the story, that would do bioware a great disservice. Sure awakening was disappointing in that regard, but not in the sense of the story itself was crap but that the time allotted to explore the story and the characters was cut short by budgeting and probably lack of time reasons. 

If there is one thing they still have to dissapoint with in a full price game it is the story, well at least the edmonton team, so I think untill we get more details on that we should avoid bashing that. If morrigan returns in a significant role in DA2 the most likely cause of poor writing will be attributed to import screwups

[Master Shiori]

MoSa09 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Gaider himself has clearly said that he won't tolerate anyone messing around with his creations and that includes Morrigan. As long as he's the one writing her story things should be alright.

She might have invented by him, but she is owned by BioWare, If they decide the want her to be different than before, he has the choice to follow along or take his leave and some other wirter will finish the job like the ones making the calls want her to be

Sure, they can decide to make her different if they really want to, but what would that accomplish?

Morrigan already has a strong following among DA fans and Bioware considers her important enough to bring back at some point.
Changing her now would be implementing change for it's own sake, and unless Bioware can be certain that such a move would bring in more fans than it would alienate (which they can't know until the change is made and the game released) it would do nothing but cause harm to the character and sales.

And let's face it; Bioware never said they're planning to change any of the characters from Origins (apart from visual look maybe). The only place where such ideas pop up is this thread due to people getting paranoid over things that may happen (but aren't likely to happen as far as we know).

I'm all for criticizing when it's due, but let's make sure those rants are based on facts and not some ungrounded fear.

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

Sure, they can decide to make her different if they really want to, but what would that accomplish?

Morrigan already has a strong following among DA fans and Bioware considers her important enough to bring back at some point.
Changing her now would be implementing change for it's own sake, and unless Bioware can be certain that such a move would bring in more fans than it would alienate (which they can't know until the change is made and the game released) it would do nothing but cause harm to the character and sales.

And let's face it; Bioware never said they're planning to change any of the characters from Origins (apart from visual look maybe). The only place where such ideas pop up is this thread due to people getting paranoid over things that may happen (but aren't likely to happen as far as we know).

I'm all for criticizing when it's due, but let's make sure those rants are based on facts and not some ungrounded fear.

Let's see if i can answer in the right order and don't forget anything.

1.Bioware considers her important enough to bring back at some point: I think we simpl disagree what important and bring her back means. I know Laidlaw says she will be back and we will be pleased. Sure, that could mean the good old Morrigan will be back in a meaningful way, and i would be more than happy if thats the case. But, BioWare made similar promises before after the release of Origins. And all times, i was disappointed. What they consider important and bringing back greatly seem to differ from what i call important and bringing back.
I really expect them to give her a short and meaningless cameo at best, but more realistically just mention her in some dialogue and deal her story in a epilogue slide, and thats it. The whole "Morrigan fans will be excited" is just a dlc like Leliana's song in my opinion. And while Leliana's song is great and i would love to play such kind of Morrigan dlc, that will not provide any kind of continuance. But even that dlc is far from certain at the moment.

2. Changing her now would be implementing change for it's own sake: i already have that impression when i look at the announced changes of DA2.

3. move would bring in more fans than it would alienate: the current changes already alienated a bunch of fans, and apparently the company did not cared. So while i agree we have to abstain from unreasoned fear, i still think its at reasonable to fear that they give a damn about fan opinion and by claiming its just about stories in Thedas, they wouldn't stop at changing characters either. If they really do and we will really see a different Morrigan, the old Morrigan, or no Morrigan at all, remains to be seen.

4. And let's face it; Bioware never said they're planning to change any of the characters from Origins: thats true. In fact, as far as i know, they never said we ever see any of the old companions again, or did i miss anything?

In the end, call it unreasoned fear, pessimisn or whatever, but after all the recent news, i don't have high hopes for the Morrigan story. At best, i expect some prequel dlc and an epilogue slide based on your Origins and DA 2 decisions that will conclude her story, and thats it. And the important word here is "at best", that not my realistic guess.

On a different note, anyone knows if we can track down Claudia Black and she might spoil she did some additional voice acting for BioWare like Corinne Kempa did on her facebook page?

Modifié par MoSa09, 15 août 2010 - 09:45 .

[Master Shiori]

[quote]MoSa09 wrote...

Let's see if i can answer in the right order and don't forget anything.

1.Bioware considers her important enough to bring back at some point: I think we simpl disagree what important and bring her back means. I know Laidlaw says she will be back and we will be pleased. Sure, that could mean the good old Morrigan will be back in a meaningful way, and i would be more than happy if thats the case. But, BioWare made similar promises before after the release of Origins. And all times, i was disappointed. What they consider important and bringing back greatly seem to differ from what i call important and bringing back.
I really expect them to give her a short and meaningless cameo at best, but more realistically just mention her in some dialogue and deal her story in a epilogue slide, and thats it. The whole "Morrigan fans will be excited" is just a dlc like Leliana's song in my opinion. And while Leliana's song is great and i would love to play such kind of Morrigan dlc, that will not provide any kind of continuance. But even that dlc is far from certain at the moment.
[/quote]

They weren't talking about bringing her back in a DLC but in a fullblown game. I don't expect to see Morri in DA2, though with Flemeth in there we can expect to hear about Morrigan and, possibly, about her relationship with the Warden. I believe she'll be back in DA3 and play just as important role as she did in Origins. The Morrigan DLC that is supposed to come out in September is just a rumour at this point. We can only hope it turns out to be true.

[quote]MoSa09 wrote...

2. Changing her now would be implementing change for it's own sake: i already have that impression when i look at the announced changes of DA2.
[/quote]

Gameplay changes between games, even between an original title and it's direct sequal (ME1 -> ME2), are a given. Expecting things to stay the same is unrealistic.
What I fail to understand is why you believe a change to gameplay mechanics and combat also means changes to established characters and their personality.

[quote]MoSa09 wrote...

3. move would bring in more fans than it would alienate: the current changes already alienated a bunch of fans, and apparently the company did not cared. So while i agree we have to abstain from unreasoned fear, i still think its at reasonable to fear that they give a damn about fan opinion and by claiming its just about stories in Thedas, they wouldn't stop at changing characters either. If they really do and we will really see a different Morrigan, the old Morrigan, or no Morrigan at all, remains to be seen.
[/quote]

Yes, there is an uproar on these forums with people bringing up valid complains about changes in DA2 (Some of which I agree with and other that I don't). Whether or not this sentiment is shared by the majority of DA playerbase remains to be seen after the game is released.

We can fear the worst if we really want to, but that doesn't make it any more true.

[quote]MoSa09 wrote...

4. And let's face it; Bioware never said they're planning to change any of the characters from Origins: thats true. In fact, as far as i know, they never said we ever see any of the old companions again, or did i miss anything?

In the end, call it unreasoned fear, pessimisn or whatever, but after all the recent news, i don't have high hopes for the Morrigan story. At best, i expect some prequel dlc and an epilogue slide based on your Origins and DA 2 decisions that will conclude her story, and thats it. And the important word here is "at best", that not my realistic guess.
[/quote]

Her story won't be concluded in DA2. Right now we don't even know if she'll be in the game.

Landlaw said there will be refferences to Morrigan in DA2, but nothing more.

Whatever it is that they've planned for her, it most likely won't happen until DA3.



[/quote]

[Nighwolfa]

Best idea i see is make an expansion with alternate endings with morrigan and close the story then we can move onto and enjoy da2

[bl00dsh0t]

 I don't know at which point we should declare DA2 an unworthy successor. Frankly that point comes once we know enough to make our decisions. While I do agree with you mosa that the trackrecord the dlc and awakening have left have not exactly blown anyone away we do still kind of have to take into account that bioware is treading on new ground with dlc, or at the very least this team. Judging origins by its dlc is not really something I do and I doubt many here do either. Origins without shale or any of the other dlc's was still amazing enough that I finished it 3 times before I even knew there was dlc ;D

Since they have not revealed anything beyond the art style, dropping the warden and gameplay changes that has many of us going bonkers, including myself, they have yet to say anything about how they handle the characters. Sure if they say "just cameos" I'm quite confident that what you are saying will hold true and it will be a botched massacring of the character. But if any of the LI's from origins hold significant enough roles that they have more than a few lines to say then I think they might learn from the reactions in awakening and build in enough lines to satisfy our need for recognition of the warden. 

But then again we want to avoid the hopefest we had back in the beginning of the year where we were bloody certain that morrigan would return in awakening and then got the smelly dwarf ;D So lets keep ourselves neutral this time, I think shiori has the most sensible attitude about it. We are all dissapointed by the epic screwup that is hawke, mostly because we jump at every damn detail with the rage and fear caused by the dissapearance of the warden. I think with our rage glasses on every detail is going to scream at us that the warden is under a rock, currently being snacked on by a deepstalker and pooped out somewhere in the deep roads xD

What i intend to say is that we should try to look at da2 as a standalone game at the moment, and definetely eye it with suspicion but dialing the hope or rage meter to max is hardly doing ourselves a service. 

I checked claudia blacks official site and her facebook group but nothing dragon age 2 related there at the moment. But, annoyingly enough, she seems to be hired for "a female lead in gears of war 3". Well its nice to see her getting high profile roles but it makes me wonder how much time there would be to actually voice morrigan. Scheduling conflicts abound? Link here 

Modifié par bl00dsh0t, 15 août 2010 - 10:15 .

[MoSa09]

Master Shiori wrote...

They weren't talking about bringing her back in a DLC but in a fullblown game. I don't expect to see Morri in DA2, though with Flemeth in there we can expect to hear about Morrigan and, possibly, about her relationship with the Warden. I believe she'll be back in DA3 and play just as important role as she did in Origins. The Morrigan DLC that is supposed to come out in September is just a rumour at this point. We can only hope it turns out to be true.

when did they said that? I never remember them saying her return will happen within a full blown game. The only thing i know is them saying "she will be back at one point or another, and we will be pleased with it". That could be everything from a full blown game to a penny arcade comic. If you have a quote where its explicitly stated and not implied or possible they meant a full blown game please share

Master Shiori wrote...

What I fail to understand is why you believe a change to gameplay mechanics and combat also means changes to established characters and their personality.

I don't. I was only saying that to me, they made changes to the game formula that were unncecessary and went beyond the traditional evolution from one game to its sequel. That said, i just assume as imo, they do not restrict themselves to changing a successful formula, i don't expect they'll stop at changing at characters either if they decide that they want to. I just think if they really want to change her character in some way, they will not hesitate by deliberations that might anger core fans of DAO. But as said, that will only happen if they feel the need to change her, and if they do, i don't know...

Master Shiori wrote...

Her story won't be concluded in DA2. Right now we don't even know if she'll be in the game.

Landlaw said there will be refferences to Morrigan in DA2, but nothing more.

Whatever it is that they've planned for her, it most likely won't happen until DA3.

Again, never heard of that. You do have a quote. I only know his quote as well as Gaiders her story is not done and we will be pleased. Whatever that means, could refer to DA 2, DA 3, DA 4, an xpac or something different. IF you have more specific information please share

[Nighwolfa]

as long as shes not activly in it, then its cool, refrences will be ok providing they dont mess up the story

[bl00dsh0t]

Agreed, a decent reference would be enough for it to be "ok", them bringing her back in a weird way not ;D But well as long as they don't announce her presence, which I'm pretty sure they would do relatively early to reel in us fanboys if it is the case. Still a cameo or mention of morrigan is hardly going to convince any of us to buy the game I think, or at the very least not myself. I'm sticking with if the game is good ill get it, if it seems to be crap I won't and will just look at youtube vids to grasp the story pertaining to morrigan. As simple as that ;D

[Nighwolfa]

I'm still not sure if making morri appear in da2 is meant as a draw-in for morri fans to play da2, maybe a clever ploy.

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Her story won't be concluded in DA2. Right now we don't even know if she'll be in the game.

Landlaw said there will be refferences to Morrigan in DA2, but nothing more.

Whatever it is that they've planned for her, it most likely won't happen until DA3.

Again, never heard of that. You do have a quote. I only know his quote as well as Gaiders her story is not done and we will be pleased. Whatever that means, could refer to DA 2, DA 3, DA 4, an xpac or something different. IF you have more specific information please share

The only meaningful references I've seen Laidlaw make regarding Morrigan come from this thread, where he only says this:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Havent they already said they are NOT done with Morrigan?

We sure did! I think I was asked about a hundred times at Comic Con, and the answer's always the same: "We're not done with Morrigan's story."

And this:

Mike Laidlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I don't mean to sound dickish, but at least having Morrigan show up in  DA2 only to have Hawke deal with her is a bit like having some randow Jawa confront Darth Vader in Empire Strikes Back instead of Luke- the  past history between the Warden and Morrigan is prime stuff to be played with in the future IMO.

So, you're saying I should cut any references to Morrigan from DA2? Wow. That, sir, is a brave thing to request. It's like unleashing the hounds! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

At this point all I can say is that I personally do not believe the Morrigan fans will be disappointed by what the future has in store.

So, he never said that Morrigan would only be referenced in DA2- she might be referenced and show up later in the game. With anything Laidlaw says, I just treat it like a politician speaking- he is very careful to say stuff but at the same time not say much at all.


As for Morrigan making an actual appearance in DA2, my take on it is this: If we were to get some sort of DLC or  expack where the Warden could meet up with Morrigan and basically get their relationship status settled for good one way or the other, then I'd be fine with Morrigan making an appearance in DA2 by herself.

If the Warden met up with Morrigan and she basically was like "Hey- take the OGB, I'll be back, I've got something to deal with. Trust me, I'll be back" Cue the nice kiss and goodbye, then I'd be fine with Morrigan showing up to do whatever in DA2. Even if the Warden didn't learn her plan or everything during that little meeting- just some reassurance that the Morrigan we see in DA2 is the Morrigan that was affected by her romance with the Warden- thats what I want, not some generic, one size fits all version of Morrigan.

Basically, I only want to see Morrigan in DA2 if the Warden has already found her in his searching. If Hawke just stumbles on Morrigan before the Warden, whose express purpose is finding her, that would just set off my BS meter to astounding levels. Thats exactly what I do not want to see and that would really kill my interest in DA. Just a little closure for the Warden would do wonders in having me be able to move on to DA2, storywise at least.

As far as hoping for Morrigan in DA3- who knows. Thats even too far off for me speculation wise...



Oh and as for Claudia Black being in GoW3- I'd hope that wouldn't interfere with anything DA related. On one hand though, I can't imagine there being THAT much dialogue in need of recording for GoW, compared to DA at least.

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 août 2010 - 12:23 .

[MKDAWUSS]

Actually, Hawke finding Morrigan before the Warden doesn't necessarily have to be disastrous. He could talk Morrigan into reuniting with the Warden, and the two lovers reunite. But that's probably wishful thinking...

[Giggles_Manically]

Or he could overwhelm her, with his sheer awsomeness and the two ran off for some cake.

(viewers of Zero Punctuation will get this)

[Brockololly]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Or he could overwhelm her, with his sheer awsomeness and the two ran off for some cake.
(viewers of Zero Punctuation will get this)

*sigh* I'm just waiting for the trailer on Tuesday to show a Hawke/Morrigan love scene....

[adneate]

Brockololly wrote...

*sigh* I'm just waiting for the trailer on Tuesday to show a FemHawke/Morrigan love scene in FemHawke's palace harem....

Edited to be more out of character and insulting.

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Or he could overwhelm her, with his sheer awsomeness and the two ran off for some cake.
(viewers of Zero Punctuation will get this)

*sigh* I'm just waiting for the trailer on Tuesday to show a Hawke/Morrigan love scene....

I'm already debating on which facepalm pic to use... I got a couple days to decide, though.

[Master Shiori]

MoSa09 wrote...

When did they said that? I never remember them saying her return will happen within a full blown game. The only thing i know is them saying "she will be back at one point or another, and we will be pleased with it". That could be everything from a full blown game to a penny arcade comic. If you have a quote where its explicitly stated and not implied or possible they meant a full blown game please share

They didn't say it would be a full blown game, but she isn't coming back in a DA2, no additional expansions for Origins have been announced and I seriously doubt you could finish the story of a character as important as Morrigan in a DLC. That leaves us with whatever game they release after DA2.

MoSa09 wrote...

Again, never heard of that. You do have a quote. I only know his quote as well as Gaiders her story is not done and we will be pleased. Whatever that means, could refer to DA 2, DA 3, DA 4, an xpac or something different. IF you have more specific information please share

Give me a sec to dig it up.

Here we go:

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/4358905/2#4359511

Mike Landlaw wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

I don't mean to sound dickish, but at least having Morrigan show up in
DA2 only to have Hawke deal with her is a bit like having some randow
Jawa confront Darth Vader in Empire Strikes Back instead of Luke- the
past history between the Warden and Morrigan is prime stuff to be played
with in the future IMO.

So, you're saying I should cut any references to Morrigan from DA2? Wow. That, sir, is a brave thing to request. It's like unleashing the hounds! ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

At
this point all I can say is that I personally do not believe the
Morrigan fans will be disappointed by what the future has in store.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Or he could overwhelm her, with his sheer awsomeness and the two ran off for some cake.
(viewers of Zero Punctuation will get this)

*sigh* I'm just waiting for the trailer on Tuesday to show a Hawke/Morrigan love scene....

Do we know where the trailer can be seen?

Will Bioware put it up on DA2 site or will it be shown somewhere else?

[Nighwolfa]

was it tommoro, or something