16183 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

MoSa09 wrote...

And i found this on the DA 2 website today:

Any ship approaching Kirkwall will first see the cliffs – the “wall”  that the city is named for – from many miles off. This sheer cliff is made of the same black stone that the city was built on, a pantheon of  vile guardians representing the Old Gods carved into its face. Over the years the Chantry has effaced many of these profane sentinels, but it is next to impossible to destroy them all.

Somehow, i have my dounts that this is all just coincidental. If Morrigan is appearing, i have my doubts. But i am sure she will be mentioned, and that "return the old gods plot" she has started in Origins will also continue to play an important role as well. Who knows, maybe the dlc will wraup up her and the Warden's story, and whatever she said in motion will appear throughout the whole Thedas games until its finally solved in way or the other at the end of the series. When her and the Warden (as well as Hawke) might long be dead.

You could be right MoSa with regard to Morrigan and Flemeth only starting something that may be finished long after they're gone.

As for the Old Gods carved into the face of the cliffs of Kirkwall, I think its important to note that Kirkwall was founded as a Tevinter slaving city, so its not too surprising that there would be art of the Old Gods there. I don't know- I'm reluctant to leap on any mention of the Old Gods and such as defnitely relating to Morrigan's plans. Tried to do that with Awakening and the Architect and we all know how unrelated all that was to Origins.

But it seems safe to say that FLemeth is likely heavily involved in DA2 and knowing her past and Morrigan's plan with the DR (which was actually (Flemeth's plan) its not far fetched to think that the collapse of the Chantry thats been hinted at involves Flemeth and her Old God loving ways.

But as for how Morrigan fits in, I really have no clue.

[Master Shiori]

Flemeth could certainly have plans that span through an entire age and beyond, but I'm not sure how long Morrigan's lifespan is. Anything she sets in motion needs to be done and over with during her lifetime.

My guess is that her plan for the OGB will start once the child has reached maturity.

[Jarlof Seoul]

Brockololly wrote...

What I'd love to see is just for Morrigan and the Warden to come to some sort of understanding. Ideally it would be sort of how the Jaheira romance is handled in the ToB epilogue- basically have MOrrigan and the Warden sort of affirm their relationship but come to an understanding that they aren't going to always be together, that while at times they may be off doing their own thing, fulfilling their own responsibilities, that they'll always come back to each other in the end. That sort of gives the Warden some closure but frees up Morrigan to show up in further DA games if need be...

Sadly, I just have the bad feeling that Morrigan's story won't end well for her, especially with Flemeth seemingly around in DA2. Just a gut feeling that Morrigan's story is going to end tragically...

Edit: Or another DLC bad idea would be that its mostly the Warden searching but for some Plot Hammer reason, its preordained by the Plot Gods that the Warden can't find Morrigan and gives up or something... I'm sure I could come up with more bad ideas on how to frustrate Morrigan fans, but BioWare is probably taking notes so I'll stop there...

Let's give BW a chance that they will do the right thing and not leve the Morrigan Nation furstrated. You know, you have an excellent point that should have been obvious to me since Flemeth was unveiled as part of DA2: That can't be good news for Morri. Potential implications for Morri sank in, especially given Flemeth's lovgevity. Still hoping for rainbow and sunshine resolution option but any will do. I preferred the Viconia resolution in BG:ToB myself.

[Jarlof Seoul]

soundchaser721 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

soundchaser721 wrote...

Given the way bioware is handling their dragon age protagonists I don't know if they're going to bring the warden and morrigan back for part 3. As much as that would be awesome it would mean a hell of a lot more time without any closure and at that point i think people would stop caring. Either way this morrigan dlc needs to happen, and its gotta be good. I really hope it doesn't take place before origins because that would just be the biggest kick in the nuts ever.

I think in one of the recent interviews from Gamescom, Laidlaw did mention that DA2 is Hawke's story and that while we may see him/her down the road, it seems they're fairly well set in having each game a new protagonist. Which is fine so long as they don't leave plot threads dangling best suited to be resolved by the PC of a given game- like the whole DR/OGB thing with Origins...


That said, I think Laidlaw also mentioned how mysteries from DAO may not necessarily be resolved in DA2... to me that screams of the OGB. Maybe thats for the best- I just don't want BioWare dragging out certain plot threads for years and years...

Exactly, dragon age 2 is no doubt Hawke's story and thats one of the reasons i don't think that morrigan will have a huge role in it; it would steal a lot from Hawke. That being said, if this morrigan dlc was released and gave morrigan romancers the closeure they wanted (which at this point is just seeing morrigan again with our wardens) then i think they'll have a much more positive view of dragon age 2. I don't mind dragon age 2 being about Hawke, but i've had it with these revan-like disappearing acts and walking off into the sunset never to be heard again. Its not badass, to me it just seems like apathy on the part of the developers.

Dangling eventually becomes greedy and intellectually lazy. I agree completely about how closure will make some of us that much more positive in terms of DA2 and the franchise in general.

[Jarlof Seoul]

jln.francisco wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

jln.francisco wrote...

Seems we can expect a revolving door of protagonists from here on out- don't bother getting too attached to Hawke...

Kinda makes you wonder (or at least makes me wonder) what the point of buying a sequel would be. If it's going to be have different characters and different combat/development system why not buy a different game and get the bonus of exploring an entirely new world?

Why do people get Star Wars games? Most of their sub-series have new PCs in each installment...

Beats the hell out me. I hate star wars after The Empire Strikes Back.

lol! so true!

[Jarlof Seoul]

Master Shiori wrote...

wickedwizzard01 wrote...

i do expect Morrigan to show up at some point during DA2

Maybe. So far they neither confirmed nor denied that Morrigan will be in DA2.

DA2 could be about Flemeth setting her plan into motion and then we have her and Morri face each other off in DA3.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Now that would be a showdown...especially since I decided to take out creepy body snatching Flemeth for Morri.

[soundchaser721]

Jarlof Seoul wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

wickedwizzard01 wrote...

i do expect Morrigan to show up at some point during DA2

Maybe. So far they neither confirmed nor denied that Morrigan will be in DA2.

DA2 could be about Flemeth setting her plan into motion and then we have her and Morri face each other off in DA3.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Now that would be a showdown...especially since I decided to take out creepy body snatching Flemeth for Morri.

I really wonder how they're going to handle flemeth in DA2 if you killed her for morrigan. I know she's not really dead but didnt morrigan say something to the effect of while she may not be dead she'll be in a weakened state for years? If so, maybe she appears and helps hawke before you kill her and shows up later, either way she has her own agenda and the fact that shes alive and well after being "killed" does not spell good for morrigan or the warden.

[Master Shiori]

soundchaser721 wrote...

I really wonder how they're going to handle flemeth in DA2 if you killed her for morrigan. I know she's not really dead but didnt morrigan say something to the effect of while she may not be dead she'll be in a weakened state for years? If so, maybe she appears and helps hawke before you kill her and shows up later, either way she has her own agenda and the fact that shes alive and well after being "killed" does not spell good for morrigan or the warden.

Well, first of all it depends on whether or not Morrigan was correct about Flemeth and how long it would take her to regain her power.

Since DA2 starts right after the battle of Ostagar, I guess Flemeth was still alive in her old body. She'll probably join Hawke and co. in the Free Marches later. Whether it'll be a few years later or sooner remains to be seen.

[Brockololly]

Anything regarding Flemeth is a mystery and shouldn't be taken as a certainty, even if it came from Morrigan. I'm just uneasy about the whole Morrigan/Flemeth relationship. I just have the bad feeling that somehow BioWare is going to pull a big twist somehow with them- hopefully not the FLEMETH=MORRIGAN! type shocker, but perhaps something equally as surprising. There is just so much unknown about them that they could really pull the rug out from underneath us in any number of ways.

I was really expecting some huge KOTOR-esque shocker from Morrigan at the end of Origins. The DR was a surprise but I was thinking they'd pull out the whole MOrrigan=Flemeth card or something. Considering its Gaider behind the wheel, I'm not so sure that maybe we get a nice reunion in a DLC that gives the Warden and Morrigan an understanding and sets Morrigan free to do her own thing, only to do something nasty to Morrigan then.

I just can't shake the feeling that Morrigan's story will not end well for her....whether thats death or something worse...

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 août 2010 - 10:31 .

[soundchaser721]

Brockololly wrote...

Anything regarding Flemeth is a mystery and shouldn't be taken as a certainty, even if it came from Morrigan. I'm just uneasy about the whole Morrigan/Flemeth relationship. I just have the bad feeling that somehow BioWare is going to pull a big twist somehow with them- hopefully not the FLEMETH=MORRIGAN! type shocker, but perhaps something equally as surprising. There is just so much unknown about them that they could really pull the rug out from underneath us in any number of ways.

I was really expecting some huge KOTOR-esque shocker from Morrigan at the end of Origins. The DR was a surprise but I was thinking they'd pull out the whole MOrrigan=Flemeth card or something. Considering its Gaider behind the wheel, I'm not so sure that maybe we get a nice reunion in a DLC that gives the Warden and Morrigan an understanding and sets Morrigan free to do her own thing, only to do something nasty to Morrigan then.

I just can't shake the feeling that Morrigan's story will not end well for her....whether thats death or something worse...

It would be terrible if something bad happens to her, and we can't help her out and protect her. The fact that Flemeth is alive and kicking is very unsettling and there are so many mysteries surrounding the flemeth-morrigan relationship and at this point anything can really happen, i just hope we're able to do something about it, whether as our wardens (my obvious preference) or as hawke.

Modifié par soundchaser721, 23 août 2010 - 10:53 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

I suspect Morrigan and Flemeth will end up on opposing fronts and we get to choose with whom to side with. Not a "omg wtf" kind of shocker, but if done well could be very satisfactory.

[Giggles_Manically]

Can I just sit the fight out and eat some popcorn though?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Or side with one against the other, only to backstab the winner and claim whatever they are fighting for. Would be too tempting if Morrigan wasn't involved.

[Giggles_Manically]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Or side with one against the other, only to backstab the winner and claim whatever they are fighting for. Would be too tempting if Morrigan wasn't involved.

But people who never played origins wont have a clue who Morri is.

[Brockololly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I suspect Morrigan and Flemeth will end up on opposing fronts and we get to choose with whom to side with. Not a "omg wtf" kind of shocker, but if done well could be very satisfactory.

Yeah, I could see it maybe that in DA2 Flemeth and her apostate army sort of takes down the Chantry. Then maybe come DA3 time, Morrigan shows back up with a more grown up Old God baby potentially to give Flemeth a run for her money.

Or maybe in DA2 we'll end up with a Morinth/Samara types scenario?

Modifié par Brockololly, 23 août 2010 - 11:48 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Brockololly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I suspect Morrigan and Flemeth will end up on opposing fronts and we get to choose with whom to side with. Not a "omg wtf" kind of shocker, but if done well could be very satisfactory.

Yeah, I could see it maybe that in DA2 Flemeth and her apostate army sort of takes down the Chantry. Then maybe come DA23 time, Morrigan shows back up with a more grown up Old God baby potentially to give Flemeth a run for her money.

Or maybe in DA2 we'll end up with a Morinth/Samara types scenario?

I can see it becoming a conflict of ideas / idealogies. Flemeth might attempt to impose  her order on Thedas and structure it according to her whims, while Morrigan prefers to let people choose whatever they want to. I know this sounds a bit too philosophical. Morrigan does like freedom but she never talks about it as an abstract ideal. But she could have "matured" at that point. Or maybe she only views Flemeth and her plan as a threat to her survival.

[Ash Wind]

Master Shiori wrote...

soundchaser721 wrote...

I really wonder how they're going to handle flemeth in DA2 if you killed her for morrigan. I know she's not really dead but didnt morrigan say something to the effect of while she may not be dead she'll be in a weakened state for years? If so, maybe she appears and helps hawke before you kill her and shows up later, either way she has her own agenda and the fact that shes alive and well after being "killed" does not spell good for morrigan or the warden.

Well, first of all it depends on whether or not Morrigan was correct about Flemeth and how long it would take her to regain her power.

Since DA2 starts right after the battle of Ostagar, I guess Flemeth was still alive in her old body. She'll probably join Hawke and co. in the Free Marches later. Whether it'll be a few years later or sooner remains to be seen.

While I am no DA2 convert , even I must admit that there are some interesting options for them to consider seeing how the DA:2 timeline intersects the Origins timeline.

There might be something tangible to explain why early on Flemeth is dressed in near rags, and then when you go to confront her as part of Morrigan's quest, she's dressed differently, almost chantry mage-like if I recall.

Also, how she continues to interact with Hawke (eh) could change in-game. She could be the Flemth of old when he first meets her, if it happens around the fall of Lothering. She may have a completely different appearance, and may even be severely weakened (depending on whether you 'kill' her or let her go) and that could effect DA:2. That would put some consequences into your DA:O choices. 

Modifié par Ash Wind, 23 août 2010 - 11:55 .

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I suspect Morrigan and Flemeth will end up on opposing fronts and we get to choose with whom to side with. Not a "omg wtf" kind of shocker, but if done well could be very satisfactory.

Yeah, I could see it maybe that in DA2 Flemeth and her apostate army sort of takes down the Chantry. Then maybe come DA23 time, Morrigan shows back up with a more grown up Old God baby potentially to give Flemeth a run for her money.

Or maybe in DA2 we'll end up with a Morinth/Samara types scenario?

I can see it becoming a conflict of ideas / idealogies. Flemeth might attempt to impose  her order on Thedas and structure it according to her whims, while Morrigan prefers to let people choose whatever they want to. I know this sounds a bit too philosophical. Morrigan does like freedom but she never talks about it as an abstract ideal. But she could have "matured" at that point. Or maybe she only views Flemeth and her plan as a threat to her survival.

Morrigan doesn't really strike me as someone to Fight for a Cause. I mean, why would Morrigan care if Flemeth wants to take down the Chantry? Maybe Morrigan thinks she needs power as strong as an old god to be free of Flemeth's Morriclone army.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Morrigan might care if Flemeth wants to impose her ideas on her. Seeing how Flemeth is more powerful and smarter than the Chantry, she would pose a more urgent threat. But yes you're right, I don't think Morrigan would fight for an ideal. She just seems to do what she thinks makes the most sense at the current moment. At least that's what I udnerstood, but her claims that "some things are worth preserving" seem to indicate that she isn't solely a survivalist.

[MKDAWUSS]

Brockololly wrote...

Anything regarding Flemeth is a mystery and shouldn't be taken as a certainty, even if it came from Morrigan. I'm just uneasy about the whole Morrigan/Flemeth relationship. I just have the bad feeling that somehow BioWare is going to pull a big twist somehow with them- hopefully not the FLEMETH=MORRIGAN! type shocker, but perhaps something equally as surprising. There is just so much unknown about them that they could really pull the rug out from underneath us in any number of ways.

I was really expecting some huge KOTOR-esque shocker from Morrigan at the end of Origins. The DR was a surprise but I was thinking they'd pull out the whole MOrrigan=Flemeth card or something. Considering its Gaider behind the wheel, I'm not so sure that maybe we get a nice reunion in a DLC that gives the Warden and Morrigan an understanding and sets Morrigan free to do her own thing, only to do something nasty to Morrigan then.

I just can't shake the feeling that Morrigan's story will not end well for her....whether thats death or something worse...

How would that have been explained considering the two of them were seen together on 2 different occasions? If the whole Morrigan is Flemeth punchline was due to Flemeth's body jumping when you killed her, that's one thing (and it probably explains a few things as well).

But just to ask, would the Flemeth=Morrigan punchline be a shocker or a facepalm? I'm thinking it's the latter and not the former...

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morrigan might care if Flemeth wants to impose her ideas on her. Seeing how Flemeth is more powerful and smarter than the Chantry, she would pose a more urgent threat. But yes you're right, I don't think Morrigan would fight for an ideal. She just seems to do what she thinks makes the most sense at the current moment. At least that's what I udnerstood, but her claims that "some things are worth preserving" seem to indicate that she isn't solely a survivalist.

I was looking in the toolset to see what I could find about her wanting to preserve things (other than the old god
soul). 

Morrigan:  There are traditions of magic outside of the Circle of Magi, despite what those mages would have you believe. Some of these traditions are old, indeed, passed down as carefully-guarded lore from one generation to the next. The zealots of the Chantry would uproot all such practitioners if they could, but as luck have it some still exist. My mother is such a one. ... Not all apostates use the forbidden blood arts. Maleficarum do, but to condemn all who do not fall under the Circle's thrall for the sake of what might be is a dangerous path to walk.
PC: Such traditions need to be preserved.
Morrigan: I am surprised you think so. Still, 'tis a pleasant thing to hear.

So I suppose you could say that she's not just a survivalist, but that she also believes in preserving ancient magic and lore. I don't know if she'd compromise her survival fighting for that cause, however.
Then, on the one hand you have her claiming the seemingly harmless "The child will represent freedom for an ancient power" side of the DR, while on the other hand, we have her calling something about the DR "terrible".

I suppose only time will tell (hopefully).

Modifié par phaonica, 24 août 2010 - 12:36 .

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...

Morrigan doesn't really strike me as someone to Fight for a Cause. I mean, why would Morrigan care if Flemeth wants to take down the Chantry? Maybe Morrigan thinks she needs power as strong as an old god to be free of Flemeth's Morriclone army.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Morrigan might care if Flemeth wants to impose her ideas on her. Seeing how Flemeth is more powerful  and smarter than the Chantry, she would pose a more urgent threat. But  yes you're right, I don't think Morrigan would fight for an ideal. She  just seems to do what she thinks makes the most sense at the current  moment. At least that's what I udnerstood, but her claims that "some  things are worth preserving" seem to indicate that she isn't solely a survivalist.

That was one of the reasons the DR scene still bugs me- all throughout Origins Morrigan is all about her own survival and her own power.Yet you get to her explanation for wanting the Old God baby and its some vague reasoning of wanting to preserve an uncorrupted ancient power to serve as a "symbol of freedom." A symbol of freedom to whom?

That just struck me as a real abrupt shift in her character- for 95% of the game she is all about herself and yet in the DR scene it seems as if she is making a personal sacrifice to restore Urthemiel to serve as a symbol of freedom? Without knowing more about her plans, it just seems awfully out of character.... Maybe thats another facet of her characetr we hadn't seen, but if thats the case it would have been nice to have had a little foreshadowing on that point prior to the DR.

MKDAWUSS wrote...
But
just to ask, would the Flemeth=Morrigan punchline be a shocker or a
facepalm? I'm thinking it's the latter and not the former...

Well, I don't expect the Flemeth=Morrigan thing to actually come about, as I agree, that would be an epic facepalm moment. But I just have the feeling they may do something for "shock value" with Morrigan. Maybe not, but given all the mystery surrounding her, thats my gut feeling...

Modifié par Brockololly, 24 août 2010 - 12:40 .

[Brockololly]

phaonica wrote...

I was looking in the toolset to see what I could find about her wanting to preserve things (other than the old god
soul). 

Morrigan:  There are traditions of magic outside of the Circle of Magi, despite what those mages would have you believe. Some of these traditions are old, indeed, passed down as carefully-guarded lore from one generation to the next. The zealots of the Chantry would uproot all such practitioners if they could, but as luck have it some still exist. My mother is such a one. ... Not all apostates use the forbidden blood arts. Maleficarum do, but to condemn all who do not fall under the Circle's thrall for the sake of what might be is a dangerous path to walk.
PC: Such traditions need to be preserved.
Morrigan: I am surprised you think so. Still, 'tis a pleasant thing to hear.

So I suppose you could say that she's not just a survivalist, but that she also believes in preserving ancient magic and lore. I don't know if she'd compromise her survival fighting for that cause, however.
Then, on the one hand you have her claiming the seemingly harmless "The child will represent freedom for an ancient power" side of the DR, while on the other hand, we have her calling something about the DR "terrible".

I suppose only time will tell (hopefully).

Good find in the toolset, phaonica.

I guess it comes down to why Morrigan is interested in preserving ancient knowledge. I'd guess its so that she can use that knowledge to increase her own power and thus her odds at survival. But even if Morrigan became as powerful as Flemeth by collecting old and forgotten magics, what then? Would she just sit around in a hut?

Morrigan seems a practical person with goals in mind- but she isn't the type to want to rule over people I don't think. And I have a hard time seeing her want to be the leader of any movement to usurp the Chantry or do anything of the sort. Surely that would draw attention to her which would jeopardize her survival? Unless she felt confident enough in her own power that she felt no one could oppose her at that point? Especially with an Old God Baby too?

Many questions with Morrigan and Flemeth...not many answers...

[Giggles_Manically]

So Morrigan cares only for her own survival, and nothing else?



I thought that if the Warden loves her, or befriended her that she would come to care for them as much.



Thats something interesting to see, if Morrigan had to choose between saving herself, or risking her own life to save the warden what would she choose?

[soundchaser721]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So Morrigan cares only for her own survival, and nothing else?

I thought that if the Warden loves her, or befriended her that she would come to care for them as much.

Thats something interesting to see, if Morrigan had to choose between saving herself, or risking her own life to save the warden what would she choose?

Yeah thats the thing with morrigan, you don't know if she really loves the warden or not, while she never outright tells you she loves you, she does call you "my love" at the gates of denerim, but she leaves at the end no matter what so its hard to tell what she would choose though i think she genuinely cares for the warden